View Full Version : Son is headed to Army Basic - Any advice for him?
wedgehead30
04-02-13, 08:24
My son has been my shooting partner since he was seven. He's shot everything from IDPA, 3-gun and CMP matches with me. He was always focused and disciplined on the range. And pretty focused on life in general.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2455
But when he turned 16ish he gravitated towards, girls, skateboards, video games and getting high with his so called friends. His grades dropped among other problems. The shooting came to an abrupt end as did being involved with the family for anything. I was disappointed but not really that surprised. The last couple of years he's been aimless and lackadaisical about everything. Suffice to say the past couple of years have been quite trying for me and my wife. So when he turned 18 a few months back I sat him down for a long come to Jesus meeting and told him he needed to get his s**t together. If he didn't he was gonna be out on his a** without Mommy and Daddy to take care of him.
Well I don't know if it was me or what. But he slowly started cleaning up his act. Then he came home a few weeks ago and announced that he had joined the Ohio Army National Guard. He passed all his tests and is scheduled for basic in August at Ft. Benning. Then it's on to advanced infantry training. I asked him if he considered getting into a specific skill field but he's adamant that he's going to be a 11B, Infantry Soldier. He plans to see how he likes basic and possibly go active duty if it really fits him. Otherwise he's going to community college when he gets back. So far he's had a couple drills in the recruit sustainment program and has loved it. I'm hoping that the Army will get him on track and keep him motivated and disciplined.
So where I'm going with all of this is. I never served in the military so I can't give him anything other than general advice. So I'm hoping some of you guys can offer up some sage advice, tips, words of wisdom or things to avoid while he's in training. Anything would be appreciated. :)
TIA,
Scott
Littlelebowski
04-02-13, 08:27
Don't follow the BS advice of never volunteering for stuff during Basic. He volunteered for this for change, man up. Don't let him blow his cash after graduation. NO tattoos for the first 4 years.
The best I can recommend is for him to Pay Attention to everything the Drills say and do exactly what they tell him to and how to do things. Always give 110% effort. Do not make stupid mistakes over and over again.
polymorpheous
04-02-13, 08:47
Don't shine your boots shinier than the DS's.
Never apologize by saying, "Sorry Drill Sergeant!"
Try to get 1st or last fire watch.
Don't push over a fire ant hill.
Don't stick out.
And above all else...
Take care of your feet!!
Sounds to me like he already got the advice he needed.
Nothing could have stopped me from going infantry...I eventually figured it out on my own.
Don't be the class clown, keep a low profile.
Try to excel at whatever you are being asked to do.
Do whatever you are asked to do with no whining!
theblackknight
04-02-13, 09:02
Tell him to save his money, BC uncle Sam will give you 36 months of tuition and all, but they will give it to you when they are good and ready. I've got a couple friends who didn't have a nest egg saved up BC they blew deployment money on trucks,bikes, guns, supplements they couldn't use any way in country BC they were working 20hours a day etc etc.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
wedgehead30
04-02-13, 09:05
Don't follow the BS advice of never volunteering for stuff during Basic. He volunteered for this for change, man up. Don't let him blow his cash after graduation. NO tattoos for the first 4 years.
His uncle, career Navy, gave him the same advice about volunteering. He told him to always be the first to volunteer. It shows the DI's leadership and commitment.
His uncle, career Navy, gave him the same advice about volunteering. He told him to always be the first to volunteer. It shows the DI's leadership and commitment.
There's a happy medium. I wouldn't say always be the first. Use good sense to figure out when it matters and when it doesn't, in order to avoid being annoying about it.
Failure2Stop
04-02-13, 09:25
There's a happy medium. I wouldn't say always be the first. Use good sense to figure out when it matters and when it doesn't, in order to avoid being annoying about it.
Yup.
And there is a significant difference in volunteering for tasks in basic training versus volunteering while at a "real" unit.
Magic_Salad0892
04-02-13, 09:30
NO tattoos for the first 4 years.
Just curious. Why?
NO tattoos for the first 4 years. Good advice.
Tell your son to move assholes and elbows any time he is assigned to do something quickly. It pays to be first.
I do have a little experience in this area....
- Do not be late. Be in the right uniform with the right equipment at the right time. EVERY TIME.
- Do not make the Drill Sergeant have to tell him twice.
- Do what the Drill Sergeant says; do not ask questions or argue - he will tell you what he wants you to do.
- DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE DUMBASS DRAMA that some of the other Privates will get into/try to get him to participate in. Some will be trying to sneak out, go buy cigarettes/drugs/other contraban. If they want to be trailer trash stupid, let them don't get drawn into it. I had to give more Article 15's for this than any other thing.
- Do not piss his money away.
- Be in good shape when he gets there, and within body fat standards. Run, pushups, situps.
- You don't have to be first to volunteer, 2nd or 3rd is ok. If you go first every time, it will make it hard to get along with the other Privates. 1 in 4 a good rule.
- To be a good leader, you first have to learn to be a good FOLLOWER.
- It helps if you treat it as a game; they are going to stress you with too much too quickly, in order to see how you react/deal with it. FOCUS for the approx 15 weeks singlemindedly on completing THIS task. Celebrate later.
- NEVER QUIT. NO FREAKIN WHINING.
- Sometimes the top 2% out of AIT get Airborne or Air Assault school following - if so, TAKE IT.
It WILL change him for the better. I can't think of a better thing to get a young man straighened out.
Littlelebowski
04-02-13, 10:32
I do have a little experience in this area....
- DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE DUMBASS DRAMA that some of the other Privates will get into/try to get him to participate in. Some will be trying to sneak out, go buy cigarettes/drugs/other contraban. If they want to be trailer trash stupid, let them don't get drawn into it. I had to give more Article 15's for this than anything other thing.
I honestly thought that was a joke at first.
crusader377
04-02-13, 10:36
I would recommend that he show up to basic in as best shape as possible. Get a copy of the PT test standards and I would strive to score as high as possible and well above minimum standards. I've been out for a decade now but when I was in the max was 300 points and the minimum pass was 180. I would strive to be able to hit at least 240-250 points prior to entering basic or better (270+ would be ideal). Remember all of the training at Basic will be easier if you are in shape.
Keep motivated and always strive to excel.
Listen to your DI's
Don't stick out negatively on anything. Just stay in your lane and focus on being the best soldier possible.
Remember that basic will end and you just have to take things day by day. Don't stress or whine.
wedgehead30
04-02-13, 10:47
Wedge,
I can't post in your thread as I am limited until I get to 200 posts.
I just had a family member go through infantry training who is a health nut. he said it is not about being young and having muscle... if you don't have developed CARDIO you will really struggle with the physical challenges.
Advise your son to do everything he can to develop cardio, he will be glad to be so far ahead of everyone else when the physical challenges hit the fan... which is the FIRST DAY.
Being prepared for the endurance abuse will also allow him to concentrate on other items during basic instead of struggling like every other snot-nosed teen that thinks they are in ideal physical shape and ready for basic. I have heard over and over again that weight lifters and non-endurance athletes think they can handle basic and are surely humbled by the cardio stress.
Hope that helps. Feel free to post my comments in your thread.
Ick
Thanks Ick
Cardio.... Lots of it. You do a lot of running in Basic.
Listen to the Drills and if you mess up don't say "Sorry Drill Sergeant".
Remember that the first few weeks are gonna suck. It's supposed to be that way no matter how well you do.
The faster your platoon starts working together the faster the suck will subside.
Littlelebowski
04-02-13, 11:58
Way too Army specific for me so I'm bowing out. I will say that Basic is just the start and though he will be told that he's a hard core warrior and soldier now, he should remember that this is just the beginning, hence my admonishments to not spend any large amounts money, get tattoos, etc. He should also not get caught up in the apathy that hits the younger, lower ranks, and try for some good schools like Ranger and Airborne.
theblackknight
04-02-13, 12:07
Just curious. Why?
IDK, seems like the people who get stupid work in stupid places are the people who act accordingly in every other area. Proper parenting usually takes care of that one.
Infantry IS a specific skill.
Never simply meet the standard, always try to exceed them, especially in the basic task and physical fitness arenas. The basics, if mastered will serve him well.
Always learn the tasks of the next skill level. He may need to assume command of a small unit at some point.
Good luck.
Infantry IS a specific skill.
Right. While there is no civilian job-market corollary to the Infantry, it is a job that requires enormous technical and tactical proficiency. There's a whole lot more to it than rucking fast and shooting straight. There's commo (HF is complicated as hell), vehicle and foreign weapon ID, DZ/PZ Ops, Aviation Control, and the list goes on and on and on. You could spend a lifetime learning skill-sets used by the Infantry and still not know it all. Pathfinder School and RSLC, for example, will wake you up that very fast.
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 13:26
Yup.
And there is a significant difference in volunteering for tasks in basic training versus volunteering while at a "real" unit.
Not to mention in Basic, when you volunteer, you are volunteering your assigned buddy too.
Good way to piss him off unless you consult him first.
My best advice is to be the Grey Man.
I'd also have him read this whole thing before he goes, but also tell him to shut up about it and not act like a know it all. However, having read it and internalized some key concepts will help him enormously, especially once he gets to his unit and starts training. His first team leader will make him memorize an enormous amount of information, and having some familiarity with it first will make it all much easier. Given that he won't have a whole lot of free time for a while, it makes sense to have him read it now.
FM 3-21.8 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad
https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog/view/100.ATSC/04183AF4-34EB-47F0-BCEE-29C93432DA49-1274564010088/3-21.8/toc.htm
CarlosDJackal
04-02-13, 13:53
Maintaining a good, positive attitude and displaying good work ethics will help him get far. I was never the strongest, fastest or smartest; but I always worked my tail off to the best of my abilities.
Because of this there were a few courses I completed but should have failed out from for not meeting some minor requirement. But the instructors liked my "never die" attitude and helped me along.
This is very different from being a brown-nosing, ass-kisser. When he is ordered to jump, do not ask how high just do it as high as you can every time and they'll leave you alone.
Good luck!!
I honestly thought that was a joke at first.
Unfortunately, not...Sometimes Privates will do the STUPIDEST things...
From an army veteran.....
Join the Air Force.
Don't follow the BS advice of never volunteering for stuff during Basic. He volunteered for this for change, man up. Don't let him blow his cash after graduation. NO tattoos for the first 4 years.
Good advice.
Just curious. Why?
Because "Boots" do stupid shit with their money, dumb tattoos is high on that list.
Eyes & Ears Open Mouth Shut.
Hardest part is dealing with all of the kuckleheads that will be in his company. Just tell him to keep quiet, listen up, and learn. I went two years ago, it sucked but the worse it sucks the more you have to laugh. If he can laugh at all of the stupid shit, he'll have a great time.
wedgehead30
04-02-13, 16:08
Originally Posted by 11B101ABN
Infantry IS a specific skill.
Right. While there is no civilian job-market corollary to the Infantry, it is a job that requires enormous technical and tactical proficiency. There's a whole lot more to it than rucking fast and shooting straight. There's commo (HF is complicated as hell), vehicle and foreign weapon ID, DZ/PZ Ops, Aviation Control, and the list goes on and on and on. You could spend a lifetime learning skill-sets used by the Infantry and still not know it all. Pathfinder School and RSLC, for example, will wake you up that very fast.
It was not my intent to disparage the infantry field. My apologies if I came off that way. :(
I appreciate everyones input and advice. Many thanks! :D
For me that was the worst part of Basic. Dealing with the knuckleheads in our platoon. Basic was easy for me. I was an Army brat and grew up in the Army. By the time I was in Cub Scouts I could take apart and put back together all of my dad's gear. However, like Wake27 dealing with all of the other knuckleheads was a bit trying at times. They way we dealt with it though was to take them under our wings so to speak and make sure they did things right. Maybe I got lucky and ended up in a very good platoon with a bunch of great DI's. People have said that you never forget your DI's name and I think they are right. I still remember all 3 of mine.
Larry Vickers
04-02-13, 16:55
Tell him to do his best and keep his eyes and ears open and mouth shut - that advice will serve him well
Also tell him to seriously consider enlisting into the regular Army - in my opinion your either gonna be a soldier or your not; don't 'play' at it
The National Guard thing sounds real cool until you deploy to a combat zone with people potentially shooting back at you with lethal intent and at that point being a 'half ass' soldier in a 'half ass' unit could very easily get you killed
My call; man up and enlist in the regular Army and forget about the National Guard
Tell him to do his best and keep his eyes and ears open and mouth shut - that advice will serve him well
Also tell him to seriously consider enlisting into the regular Army - in my opinion your either gonna be a soldier or your not; don't 'play' at it
The National Guard thing sounds real cool until you deploy to a combat zone with people potentially shooting back at you with lethal intent and at that point being a 'half ass' soldier in a 'half ass' unit could very easily get you killed
My call; man up and enlist in the regular Army and forget about the National Guard
Having spent about 2 years in the guard (almost done thank god) I have to agree. I would not want to deploy with any of the people I've encountered in it. There are some good ones here and there (mostly former AD guys) but I haven't seen anything that instills confidence in me. I'm embarrassed to tell anyone I'm in the guard really. Its been discussed heavily in another thread, but active and then going back to college may be the best thing for him. Though he will feel like this:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8615073558_5402c6c355.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58801550@N02/8615073558/)
wedgehead30
04-02-13, 17:20
Tell him to do his best and keep his eyes and ears open and mouth shut - that advice will serve him well
Also tell him to seriously consider enlisting into the regular Army - in my opinion your either gonna be a soldier or your not; don't 'play' at it
The National Guard thing sounds real cool until you deploy to a combat zone with people potentially shooting back at you with lethal intent and at that point being a 'half ass' soldier in a 'half ass' unit could very easily get you killed
My call; man up and enlist in the regular Army and forget about the National Guard
Larry,
Sage advice, thanks. The unit that he's been assigned to was deployed to Afghanistan in 2012 and lost 3 men to a suicide bomber in Faryab province.
You might remember him from one of your AK classes a few years back.
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/7647/lavhack153.jpg
Leonidas24
04-02-13, 17:47
If he's doing OSUT then it's a 16 week all-in-one course.
- Red phase sucks. Suck it up and drive on, it's all downhill after that.
- Be in the right place, at the right time, in the right uniform.
- Perception is reality, don't close your eyes "so you can concentrate." You're sleeping.
- Drink water, LOTS OF IT.
- If you get the chance to go to the PX or shoppette, ALWAYS BUY SOCKS. Your others will get stolen/lost while doing laundry. There's nothing more comfortable on a 12-miler than a new pair of socks.
- Don't argue with the DS's. You will not only make it shitty for yourself but for everyone in your platoon.
- Find something to keep your spirits up. I had my mom send me lyrics to my favorite songs so I could sing them in my head. It sounds stupid but something like that can really turn a bad week around.
- Don't quit. In all actuality you can't unless you're a total blue-falcon and compromise the cohesion of the training environment. In all likelihood you'll get stuck at 30th AG for several months while being chaptered out.
- Be in decent shape when you go. I don't mean being able to knock out 72/80/13:15 on your PT test but don't be a fat body either. For one it'll suck for you and two it'll just make the DS's smoke the platoon harder. I went in at 210 and came out 165, and it SUCKED.
Hydrate, keep up your hygiene, and take care of your feet.
Tell him to do his best and keep his eyes and ears open and mouth shut - that advice will serve him well
Also tell him to seriously consider enlisting into the regular Army - in my opinion your either gonna be a soldier or your not; don't 'play' at it
The National Guard thing sounds real cool until you deploy to a combat zone with people potentially shooting back at you with lethal intent and at that point being a 'half ass' soldier in a 'half ass' unit could very easily get you killed
My call; man up and enlist in the regular Army and forget about the National Guard
Good advice. All in or all out.
If he's doing OSUT then it's a 16 week all-in-one course.
- Red phase sucks. Suck it up and drive on, it's all downhill after that.
- Be in the right place, at the right time, in the right uniform.
- Perception is reality, don't close your eyes "so you can concentrate." You're sleeping.
- Drink water, LOTS OF IT.
- If you get the chance to go to the PX or shoppette, ALWAYS BUY SOCKS. Your others will get stolen/lost while doing laundry. There's nothing more comfortable on a 12-miler than a new pair of socks.
- Don't argue with the DS's. You will not only make it shitty for yourself but for everyone in your platoon.
- Find something to keep your spirits up. I had my mom send me lyrics to my favorite songs so I could sing them in my head. It sounds stupid but something like that can really turn a bad week around.
- Don't quit. In all actuality you can't unless you're a total blue-falcon and compromise the cohesion of the training environment. In all likelihood you'll get stuck at 30th AG for several months while being chaptered out.
- Be in decent shape when you go. I don't mean being able to knock out 72/80/13:15 on your PT test but don't be a fat body either. For one it'll suck for you and two it'll just make the DS's smoke the platoon harder. I went in at 210 and came out 165, and it SUCKED.
Hydrate, keep up your hygiene, and take care of your feet.
Good points.
Song lyrics are definitely helpful.
He will sweat from parts of his body that he didn't know could sweat. Heat casualties are frequent and no joke.
And yeah, 30th AG (in-processing, and if you quit, out-processing) is the worst part. The quickest way out of Ft. Benning is to graduate. If he decides to quit, he'll spend a lot longer there then if he just sucks it up.
Leonidas24
04-02-13, 18:08
Good points.
Song lyrics are definitely helpful.
He will sweat from parts of his body that he didn't know could sweat. Heat casualties are frequent and no joke.
And yeah, 30th AG (in-processing, and if you quit, out-processing) is the worst part. The quickest way out of Ft. Benning is to graduate. If he decides to quit, he'll spend a lot longer there then if he just sucks it up.
30th AG serves double duty as the gates of hell. There's smells in the chow-hall of 30th AG I didn't know existed. It was a never ending feeling of being on the verge of vomiting, but never being able to do so.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-02-13, 18:26
I was a Marine, but here goes:
No advice needed. Training is designed for everyone who to pass, as long as they want to be there. Just dont give up, realize you will be pushed, but your mind gives up way before your body ever will. Stay motivated. Seriously though, everyone tried to give me advice before I went to Boot Camp, but at the end of the day I had to figure it out on my own and with the help of four rabid Marine Drill Instructors.
Get up 20 minutes earlier than every one else. That way you won't be in a mad rush to get your head straight, dress and (biggest thing) avoid the herd of others in the bathroom.
Many times I slept on top of my already made up bunk and covered up with my poncho liner (which will become one of his new best friends). This way it's a much faster to make the bed up.
Eat healthy at chow. Dont just cram bacon, chocolate milk, etc. down your throat.
Tape the KAC panels on his M16. Lose one and it won't be fun. Trust me.
Tobacco, cigs, cell phones...STAY AWAY! It ain't worth the risk.
Do not fall asleep in class, fireguard, or a patrol base. He will come up with interesting ways to stay up. Tobasco in the eyes/dipping coffee :)
Take a long distance view of things. Understand that this is all for his good. Especially the pain, sleep deprivation, and yelling.
Always have a pen and Rite In Rain notepad on his person. Always.
Dont buy a lock with a key. Get a combination lock.
Buy the best socks you can that are approved.
Foot powder...large amounts.
If he doesn't know how to iron then get some practice.
Run....lots....starting yesterday.
Cannot think of anything else now. Alot of good advice on here.
-Jax
I'd advise him to volunteer. The best soldiers I've served with, and am serving alongside, volunteer.
PT up for Basic. They use PRT now in IET (initial entry training), so injury rates are far lower than previous PT programs. Being in good shape adds credibility to you, and it shows you can stick out the tough-shit. Other people will look to you, the fit person, when they're thinking about quitting. Don't let them down.
If your son can already shoot very well, make sure he uses that for BRM. I tried using what my DIs taught me in BRM and sucked. I used what I learned in my basic precision rifle course and qualified expert.
Moleskin. Moleskin is your friend on long rucks. Blisters suck. Apply moleskin on to your hot spots before a ruck and that should prevent them from bubbling up.
Keep a good attitude. I had a great time at Basic, despite the shitty summer weather. The Army's a good organization with the right values. Best of luck to him.
I'd be shocked if Moleskin is allowed in Basic. It shouldn't be.
I'd be shocked if Moleskin is allowed in Basic. It shouldn't be.
Good socks, powder, and panty hose. :D
-Jax
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 20:43
Good socks, powder, and panty hose. :D
-Jax
Polypro sock liners and lots of foot powder.
Polypro sock liners and lots of foot powder.
Agreed. The foot talk just reminded me of my DS telling us to use panty hose to keep friction down on our feet.
-Jax
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 20:47
The polypro basically does the same thing but will last a helluva lot longer. One of lifes great truisims for me to learn was that dry feet are almost impossible to blister!
None of that crap should be allowed in Basic. People need to experience doing a road march with their feet falling off. It's part of the package.
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 20:58
Bah! They only road march you like 12 miles in Basic and you really aren't carrying that heavy a ruck. Like 45-50lbs. And usually that is a flat land road march at that!
If your feet are falling off after that, you have ****ed-up in your conditioning somewhere.
My feet definitely felt like they were going to fall off. I went through basic at Ft Leonardwood. During our ruck march I was fine until about half way and we took a break. As soon as I sat down I could feel my feet blister up. By the time we finished the blisters had popped and got a bit bloody. The rest of our FTX wasn't much fun. I think I'd have been fine if we wouldn't have stopped. It was only a 25 miler. A lot of the march was up and down small hills.
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 21:04
My feet definitely felt like they were going to fall off. I went through basic at Ft Leonardwood. During our ruck march I was fine until about half way and we took a break. As soon as I sat down I could feel my feet blister up. By the time we finished the blisters had popped and got a bit bloody. The rest of our FTX wasn't much fun. I think I'd have been fine if we wouldn't have stopped. It was only a 25 miler. A lot of the march was up and down small hills.
They told me mine was over 20 miles too at the time but in retrospect, I think they were lying. It may have been 15 miles. We started at about 20:00 and finished about 03:00 the next day. I am going to say we proabally took an hour worth of breaks and actually moved for 6 hours at around a 2.5 to 3 mph rate of march.
My feet felt like shit the next day but blisters were not the reason. Those shitty boots I was issued were fitted to my feet by the clerk who handed them out WITHOUT INSOLES!
The boots they issue today are light-years beyond those old speed-lace LPC's! If I could time-machine my Danner's back to my 24 year old self before that final ruck march....it wouldn't be funny!
Hardest part of any march to me was taking a knee and trying to stand back up. Knees were just frozen.
-Jax
Tell your son to run three times a day. Tell him to work up to 3 miles in the morning, 2 miles after lunch, then 3 miles before dinner. Tell him not to try to bench press 400 lbs before he goes to boot camp; it takes a while to safely work up to that point. Tell him to work on cardio development, stretching exercises, push ups, pull ups and sit ups. He should worry more about endurance than brute strength during the first phase of his military career.
I recommend drinking nothing but water before he attends boot camp. If he drops soft drinks, milk, etc. from his diet, he will be better able to survive and even excel at exercise and mental testing evolutions.
If he can complete runs and basic exercise evolutions with relative ease before boot camp, he will score well on physical fitness and get more out of other instruction during basic training. If he can condition himself to enjoy demanding exercise evolutions, it's even better.
I wish your son well. He is taking a big step in life and his willingness to serve his country will earn the respect of those of us who have gone before him.
Godspeed.
Tell him to pick up a 7-8 and a Ranger handbook and study the crap out of them. Tell him always be in the right place at the right time in the right uniform that is squared away. Tell him when he gets his uniforms and boots to triple check they are all the right size. Wrong size boots they will tear his feet apart. Wrong size uniforms they will rip and tear real easy doing IMT's and what not. If he is still waiting to head out. Tell him to run, switch between days doing 30-60's and 60-120's and other days distance runs. Have him develop a good breathing rythym so he doesn't get cramps when running. Also incorporate muscular indurance in there as well. Tell him to not be the guy that never volunteers but also not be the guy that always volunteers; otherwise he will get singled out quick fast and in a hurry. Tell him to never wear polypro unless he want's the dog shit smoked out of him and his whole platoon. Tell him to stay away from trouble makers, the sick call rangers, the smugglers, and the shit bags. Tell him to take his personal time before lights out and study the 7-8, ranger handbook, clean his weapon, do extra light pt, practice and practice some more on the 249 and 240 (they will have them in their bay for that reason). Tell him in the chow hall to stay away from any "junk" food or that will be his ass. Never neglect personal hygiene and always keep his gear clean and squared away. Make sure he keeps his wall locker and bunk squared away or be ready for everything to get tossed. Never argue with the DS's or cadre, everyone else will suffer. Tell him to never address an nco as sir, always drill sergeant for ds's, 1st sgt for 1st sgt and all officers sir. Tell him to learn his ranks and chain of command like the back of his hand. It is only 16 weeks of suck but it will be over before he knows it.
Last but not least, SOUND OFF and drink water, LOTS.
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 21:41
I forgot to add that you should make sure he learns his three General Orders.
I forgot to add that you should make sure he learns his three General Orders.
I forgot that as well. Also the soldiers creed and infantymans creed by heart!
Tell him to do his best and keep his eyes and ears open and mouth shut - that advice will serve him well
Also tell him to seriously consider enlisting into the regular Army - in my opinion your either gonna be a soldier or your not; don't 'play' at it
The National Guard thing sounds real cool until you deploy to a combat zone with people potentially shooting back at you with lethal intent and at that point being a 'half ass' soldier in a 'half ass' unit could very easily get you killed
My call; man up and enlist in the regular Army and forget about the National Guard
Well spoken.
As for the person who said air assault and airborne.
They will ask near the end of basic the people with the best pt scores if they would like the option for air assualt, airborne, special forces, ranger school etc. Tell him to take one. I wish I had. I had all those options open for me. I ended up in a unit that didn't like to send people anywhere until right before I got out and I had a family and was planning on getting out and didn't want anymore time gone from the family.
More advice I forgot. Tell him to stay away from women by any base, they are all label chasing barracks whores. The risk of getting an std, getting married to someone who will sleep around while your gone, take all your money and dissapear is extremely high. If he wants to get into a relationship, best to find a woman from back home. Also do not buy a god damn thing unless he absolutely needs it within the first year. He will know the in's and out's by then. He doesn't need to be one of those guys who got screwed by a dealership with that 18% interest miles crap, a bunch of cheesy unit tattoes, all that garbage ass px airsoft gear etc..
SeriousStudent
04-02-13, 21:55
My daughter is in Army Basic right now at Fort Jackson, in White Phase.
Write him letters. Tell him how proud you are, and that he is doing important work. You can send them letter-writing gear, so they can write back.
Mail is a great thing, and I always appreciated it when I got it. I was nothing special, just a machine gunner in the Corps. You've already received a lot of good advice.
Please thank him for his service to our country. I appreciate his willingness to serve the Constitution and our people.
The only other thing I would add is to do exactly what they tell him at the range. They want things done their way, and that is exactly how he should do it.
Good luck to him, and I know he will make you proud.
My daughter is in Army Basic right now at Fort Jackson, in White Phase.
Write him letters. Tell him how proud you are, and that he is doing important work. You can send them letter-writing gear, so they can write back.
Mail is a great thing, and I always appreciated it when I got it. I was nothing special, just a machine gunner in the Corps. You've already received a lot of good advice.
Please thank him for his service to our country. I appreciate his willingness to serve the Constitution and our people.
The only other thing I would add is to do exactly what they tell him at the range. They want things done their way, and that is exactly how he should do it.
Good luck to him, and I know he will make you proud.
Ohh and mail, do not send him anything other than a letter. He will get smoked for things like food and gadjets. Every piece of mail we got was 100 push-ups, so send him a ton of letters lol.
Tell him I said good luck and hopefully he will become apart of the Infantry brotherhood.
Ohh and mail, do not send him anything other than a letter. He will get smoked for things like food and gadjets. Every piece of mail we got was 100 push-ups, so send him a ton of letters lol.
Tell him I said good luck and hopefully he will become apart of the Infantry brotherhood.
Years ago when I was going through, I told my mother that I was sick with a sore throat. So, she mailed in various kinds of herbal teas like I'd be able to sit there and brew tea. WTF? Guess how that worked out. Herbal tea...FFS.
Some of us do this to friends and family who are joining now that we've been through it. It's funny in hindsight.
SeriousStudent
04-02-13, 22:29
Envelopes, pens, paper and stamps are all good. I send the smaller envelopes, and steno pads. That way they can stuff them in a cargo pocket when pulling CQ or firewatch.
Lots of letters get written at 3 am.
And as a0cake mentioned, some folks will send a letter with pushups attached. My brother was active-duty Army, and very thoughtfully sent me a letter addressed to "Bad Ass <SeriousStudent>". While I was in Marine boot camp, no less.
It took about a year to reach its target, but my knee finally did impact his groin for that.
Jesus you can tell its a new Army. Hopefully with the cutbacks they'll be tightening their shot groups now. We got care packages with hand sanitizer, moleskin, and a few other things. Each letter was 25 pushups and our ruck was 12. It was painful but doable. The worst part was the break at 6 miles. My feet were nice and numb and that break was enough to get the feeling back which sucked. I never have problems with blisters, but the current issue boots still suck. They jacked up my right knee and my left heel. And I'm almost positive no school will get offered to him if he stays guard, it all for the active guys (especially the RASP contract). And he will have only one chance to switch AD while he's there, if that. No time to think and come back. Otherwise he'll be stuck in the guard for his contract. I've had several friends drop out of school who were in the guard and tried to switch to AD. Not an easy process.
My daughter is in Army Basic right now at Fort Jackson, in White Phase.
Tank Hill, Fort Jackson Class of 1966 myself.
Tell her I said to make us proud!
Years ago when I was going through, I told my mother that I was sick with a sore throat. So, she mailed in various kinds of herbal teas like I'd be able to sit there and brew tea. WTF? Guess how that worked out. Herbal tea...FFS.
Some of us do this to friends and family who are joining now that we've been through it. It's funny in hindsight.
Envelopes, pens, paper and stamps are all good. I send the smaller envelopes, and steno pads. That way they can stuff them in a cargo pocket when pulling CQ or firewatch.
Lots of letters get written at 3 am.
And as a0cake mentioned, some folks will send a letter with pushups attached. My brother was active-duty Army, and very thoughtfully sent me a letter addressed to "Bad Ass <SeriousStudent>". While I was in Marine boot camp, no less.
It took about a year to reach its target, but my knee finally did impact his groin for that.
I sent two buddies porn mags when they went through the year before I did. When it was my turn, this is what I heard from my DS, "WHAT THE F***? 2LT <Wake27>? Get the f*** up here!"
:laugh:
Jesus you can tell its a new Army. Hopefully with the cutbacks they'll be tightening their shot groups now. We got care packages with hand sanitizer, moleskin, and a few other things. Each letter was 25 pushups and our ruck was 12. It was painful but doable. The worst part was the break at 6 miles. My feet were nice and numb and that break was enough to get the feeling back which sucked. I never have problems with blisters, but the current issue boots still suck. They jacked up my right knee and my left heel. And I'm almost positive no school will get offered to him if he stays guard, it all for the active guys (especially the RASP contract). And he will have only one chance to switch AD while he's there, if that. No time to think and come back. Otherwise he'll be stuck in the guard for his contract. I've had several friends drop out of school who were in the guard and tried to switch to AD. Not an easy process.
When did you go through? We had like two or three 2 milers, a 4, like two 6's, a 9 and a 12 all before FTX. FTX was 7 days long and we rucked just under 70 miles by the end not including the fob security day and the ruck to honor hill. Our honor hill ruck was 8 miles total; 2 mile duece and a half pull, 2 miles w/ two 5 gallon water jugs, 2 miles of buddy carries and aid & litter carries while ds's chucked mortor sims and smoke at us, and the last 2 miles was a log run. All of that in full battle rattle with 60lb rucks on except the log run.
When did you go through? We had like two or three 2 milers, a 4, like two 6's, a 9 and a 12 all before FTX. FTX was 7 days long and we rucked just under 70 miles by the end not including the fob security day and the ruck to honor hill. Our honor hill ruck was 8 miles total; 2 mile duece and a half pull, 2 miles w/ two 5 gallon water jugs, 2 miles of buddy carries and aid & litter carries while ds's chucked mortor sims and smoke at us, and the last 2 miles was a log run. All of that in full battle rattle with 60lb rucks on except the log run.
Two years ago. We had one of each: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12. We didn't move around a whole lot on the final FTX (also a week long) aside from a few STX lanes. The 12 mile was at the end, we kicked off at about midnight and had to rotate water jugs and litter carries (I think loaded with sand bags). We didn't have our IBA's and I'm pretty sure didn't wear our ACH's on the rucks. Oh and the rotation before us had burnt down honor hill (so we were told at least) so we didn't get to do that.
SeriousStudent
04-02-13, 23:28
Tank Hill, Fort Jackson Class of 1966 myself.
Tell her I said to make us proud!
Tank Hill is a family tradition. My brother wandered up that long slope as well.
I will pass on your good wishes.
Two years ago. We had one of each: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12. We didn't move around a whole lot on the final FTX (also a week long) aside from a few STX lanes. The 12 mile was at the end, we kicked off at about midnight and had to rotate water jugs and litter carries (I think loaded with sand bags). We didn't have our IBA's and I'm pretty sure didn't wear our ACH's on the rucks. Oh and the rotation before us had burnt down honor hill (so we were told at least) so we didn't get to do that.
Damn it has changed. We rucked all day except to stop to eat, whatever lane it was for the day, and a tiny bit of sleep. Our ds's took us up, then down and then back up the stairway to heaven in the middle of the night and we didn't even know it. Our lanes on different days were mout, another set up a support by fire and raid a village, get ambushed, set up an ambush, then ecp and patrol and fob qrf on the fob security day. I don't remember the other lanes. It sucked. All of us could barely walk when we woke up the morning after getting our crossed rifles. My feet were riddled with blisters.
Anyway back on topic (kind of derailing there), if he has any questions just post them up on here.
Heavy Metal
04-02-13, 23:34
Tank Hill is a family tradition. My brother wandered up that long slope as well.
I will pass on your good wishes.
Long slope? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! I loved hearing flatlanders talking about Tank Hill in basic. From my standpoint, there wasn't a single hill on that entire installation.
Tank Hill would be a speed bump in Southern WV and SW VA:D
Leonidas24
04-03-13, 01:52
Damn it has changed. We rucked all day except to stop to eat, whatever lane it was for the day, and a tiny bit of sleep. Our ds's took us up, then down and then back up the stairway to heaven in the middle of the night and we didn't even know it. Our lanes on different days were mout, another set up a support by fire and raid a village, get ambushed, set up an ambush, then ecp and patrol and fob qrf on the fob security day. I don't remember the other lanes. It sucked. All of us could barely walk when we woke up the morning after getting our crossed rifles. My feet were riddled with blisters.
Anyway back on topic (kind of derailing there), if he has any questions just post them up on here.
That's roughly what it was in 2007. During the last 48 hrs of the FTX we covered 23 miles and then ate steak for breakfast after it was all over.
That's roughly what it was in 2007. During the last 48 hrs of the FTX we covered 23 miles and then ate steak for breakfast after it was all over.
Did you go through in 07? I was 1 NOV - 29 FEB. Alpha 1/19.
More advice I forgot. Tell him to stay away from women by any base, they are all label chasing barracks whores. The risk of getting an std, getting married to someone who will sleep around while your gone, take all your money and dissapear is extremely high. If he wants to get into a relationship, best to find a woman from back home. Also do not buy a god damn thing unless he absolutely needs it within the first year. He will know the in's and out's by then. He doesn't need to be one of those guys who got screwed by a dealership with that 18% interest miles crap, a bunch of cheesy unit tattoes, all that garbage ass px airsoft gear etc..
That's a lot of what we told our son: Don't screw yourself right out of the gate, basically. So far, so good, one year in. (USAF) We'll see how he does when he PCS's to Germany later this year.
polymorpheous
04-03-13, 05:20
You will catch a head or chest cold while at 30th AG.
Boost your immune system.
None of that crap should be allowed in Basic. People need to experience doing a road march with their feet falling off. It's part of the package.
Disagree. The objective is to PREVENT failure rate, while still setting/maintaing a standard. Moleskin is acceptable.
You will catch a head or chest cold while at 30th AG.
Boost your immune system.
Correct about this too. Watch what you share with others; or you'll be part of the entire company that gets the rolling crud. Usually it's the air conditioners not getting cleaned regularly and they get full of mold/crud, then you all breath/eat/sleep/share it.
I alway enjoyed watching the first "get acquainted hour" with new soldiers :)
Disagree. The objective is to PREVENT failure rate, while still setting/maintaing a standard. Moleskin is acceptable.
I really don't think so man.
That must be the same standard that sent me sub-par, mentally weak soldiers for years on end -- I'd say 30% of whom had to be DX'd for a different version of the same product.
An infantryman's ability to deal with hurting feet and keep on walking is of central importance. They need to experience that and have their feet toughened up before getting to their units.
Before my last Afghan rotation, we did a road march buildup of 15, 20, 30, 40, and finally a 50 mile road march in full gear and a ruck. Soldiers that came to us from OSUT mid-way through this progression UNIVERSALLY failed to meet the standards -- mostly because of their feet -- which were NOT that bad. I don't care what you do or how many times you change your socks, you'll have to be extremely lucky not to have any problems after 50 miles.
They need to experience that at some lesser level in Basic. Using Moleskin will keep the main contact points from toughening up and keep their feet soft. Nobody needs friggen Moleskin for the dinky Basic / OSUT marches. If they can't deal with it, I don't want them.
I really don't think so man.
That must be the same standard that sent me sub-par, mentally weak soldiers for years on end -- I'd say 30% of whom had to be DX'd for a different version of the same product.
An infantryman's ability to deal with hurting feet and keep on walking is of central importance. They need to experience that and have their feet toughened up before getting to their units.
Before my last Afghan rotation, we did a road march buildup of 15, 20, 30, 40, and finally a 50 mile road march in full gear and a ruck. Soldiers that came to us from OSUT mid-way through this progression UNIVERSALLY failed to meet the standards -- mostly because of their feet -- which were NOT that bad. I don't care what you do or how many times you change your socks, you'll have to be extremely lucky not to have any problems after 50 miles.
They need to experience that at some lesser level in Basic. Using Moleskin will keep the main contact points from toughening up and keep their feet soft. Nobody needs friggen Moleskin for the dinky Basic / OSUT marches. If they can't deal with it, I don't want them.
It's all about quota. The amount of shit that happened in my company that warranted being forced out was retarded, and almost all of it lead to nothing. We had one moron have two ND's with live ammo and never scored above a 170 IIRC, plus a shit ton of other stuff. All they did was recycle him.
I really don't think so man.
That must be the same standard that sent me sub-par, mentally weak soldiers for years on end -- I'd say 30% of whom had to be DX'd for a different version of the same product.
An infantryman's ability to deal with hurting feet and keep on walking is of central importance. They need to experience that and have their feet toughened up before getting to their units.
Before my last Afghan rotation, we did a road march buildup of 15, 20, 30, 40, and finally a 50 mile road march in full gear and a ruck. Soldiers that came to us from OSUT mid-way through this progression UNIVERSALLY failed to meet the standards -- mostly because of their feet -- which were NOT that bad. I don't care what you do or how many times you change your socks, you'll have to be extremely lucky not to have any problems after 50 miles.
They need to experience that at some lesser level in Basic. Using Moleskin will keep the main contact points from toughening up and keep their feet soft. Nobody needs friggen Moleskin for the dinky Basic / OSUT marches. If they can't deal with it, I don't want them.
Well said and I agree that the product coming out of OSUT is not much more than a semi-empty vessel of raw potential with some basic knowlege, for good NCO's at the follow-on units to meld into a decent infantryman (which sucks if they are on a deployment list). I would not expect a recent OSUT Grad to fare well on that length of march right out of the schoolhouse door.
What I was saying is that the OSUT or BCT Unit's goal (which they are rated on and statisically beaten to death on) is to graduate soldiers that meet the minimun standard(s) currently set for IET by TRADOC. Which means it's not the SF Q course where less than 50% graduate. I've seen Drill Sergeants bend over backwards to try and bring a private to the standard for graduation. Because in those few weeks, you never really know if a young person actually "gets it" or not, it take time for a good soldier to develop, usually by being around good NCOs. The Army nor this country can't afford a 50% graduation rate.
Infantrymen spend more time on there feet than anybody; part of the reason we are having these problems is because of the pussification of America. Most of these kids haven't even SEEN the woods, let alone have their body/mind/spirit stressed to the levels they get at Basic. It's a process. 16 weeks can't catch up 16 years of laying around If you push too fast, you lose too many, who you end up spending a lifetime of $$ on because you permanently damage them. And remember, only about 10% of the population is even fit enough to START Military service.
I'll bet you $$ that neither of our first supervisors/raters/NCO's/commanders's thought we were worth a crap either right out of the schoolhouse. I remember being a dumbass butter-bar, but I had some really good NCO's and Officers that took the time and attention to help me develop - and I paid them back by trying to do the same for those in my charge later down the road. Every soldier's job is to also bring along those who show some potential - because they may have to take your place if the chips fall the wrong way. I had several soldiers that I thought would never amount to squat, who a couple of years later turned into really solid NCOs and Officers.
I've now been retired for 5 years, and I sure do miss it every day (well, parts of it anyway!)
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!
A 'little' off-topic. To the OP I apologize.
It's all about quota. The amount of shit that happened in my company that warranted being forced out was retarded, and almost all of it lead to nothing. We had one moron have two ND's with live ammo and never scored above a 170 IIRC, plus a shit ton of other stuff. All they did was recycle him.
I sure hope he got squared away the second time...
I never once used moleskin or sock liners for a ruck. Feet hurting was never my problem, it was back pain that made rucks suck so bad. There is nothing more physical I hate than rucking.
a0; 20, 30, 40 and 50 milers? Jesus. Was that full battle, rifles and a 60lb ruck? My feet could take it, not my back. I am glad I never had to ruck that long. How long did it take you all to finish a 50 miler? Was it consistant or did you have rest/break/sleep etc. periods?
You will catch a head or chest cold while at 30th AG.
Boost your immune system.
I caught bronchitis half way through. I was coughing so hard I would throw up. I avoided sick call like the plague, I didn't want to be a sick call ranger. Finally after a month of having it I had to go, it was plain misery.
Heavy Metal
04-03-13, 21:39
I really don't think so man.
That must be the same standard that sent me sub-par, mentally weak soldiers for years on end -- I'd say 30% of whom had to be DX'd for a different version of the same product.
An infantryman's ability to deal with hurting feet and keep on walking is of central importance. They need to experience that and have their feet toughened up before getting to their units.
Before my last Afghan rotation, we did a road march buildup of 15, 20, 30, 40, and finally a 50 mile road march in full gear and a ruck. Soldiers that came to us from OSUT mid-way through this progression UNIVERSALLY failed to meet the standards -- mostly because of their feet -- which were NOT that bad. I don't care what you do or how many times you change your socks, you'll have to be extremely lucky not to have any problems after 50 miles.
They need to experience that at some lesser level in Basic. Using Moleskin will keep the main contact points from toughening up and keep their feet soft. Nobody needs friggen Moleskin for the dinky Basic / OSUT marches. If they can't deal with it, I don't want them.
There are ways to condition your feet properly. Getting blisters are not the optimal way to do it, in fact, you are losing your gains if you blister youself too badly.
I agree, the marches in Basic were trivial if you had anything to compare them too.
Ideally, you want to keep your feet as dry as possible and let the hide naturally thicken in response to the stress, stopping just short of blistering.
Another trick is to soak in strong brewed tea(don't laugh) as the tannic acid will also toughen up the hide. Some AT thru hikers swear by that one.
I never once used moleskin or sock liners for a ruck. Feet hurting was never my problem, it was back pain that made rucks suck so bad. There is nothing more physical I hate than rucking.
a0; 20, 30, 40 and 50 milers? Jesus. Was that full battle, rifles and a 60lb ruck? My feet could take it, not my back. I am glad I never had to ruck that long. How long did it take you all to finish a 50 miler? Was it consistant or did you have rest/break/sleep etc. periods?
No, the rucks definitely were not 60 pounds. We tried to simulate the weight of an average dismounted patrol. I bet the packs were about 30 pounds in addition to the plates, rifles, etc. It took ~22 hours including breaks for food and sock changing, etc.
It honestly wasn't that bad, except for this oddly placed blister. Don't ask me why I took a picture of it or still have it. I won't imbed the picture because it's a picture of a foot and who really wants to see a foot.
http://i.imgur.com/fzIq2G8.jpg
Leonidas24
04-03-13, 22:12
Did you go through in 07? I was 1 NOV - 29 FEB. Alpha 1/19.
24 May - 10 Aug. Echo 2/58.
No, the rucks definitely were not 60 pounds. We tried to simulate the weight of an average dismounted patrol. I bet the packs were about 30 pounds in addition to the plates, rifles, etc. It took ~22 hours including breaks for food and sock changing, etc.
It honestly wasn't that bad, except for this oddly placed blister. Don't ask me why I took a picture of it or still have it. I won't imbed the picture because it's a picture of a foot and who really wants to see a foot.
http://i.imgur.com/fzIq2G8.jpg
Yeah that doesn't sound as bad. Still a suck fest though. Nasty looking blister. One time I had blisters that took up the entire bottom of both heels. When they finally heeled and the skin peeled off it was a trip. Giant pieces of skin lol.
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