View Full Version : AX556 lower proprietary hammer pin and Geissele Trigger
So I am looking at building my last AR15/M4 style firearm. Despite 16 years of experience with the traditional lower platform I've decided to give an ambi lower a try for this build (I am left eye dominate).
I am split between the cartoony ARFCOM lower (hate that logo/website engraving, but love the layout) and the AXTS AX556.
They both come out to roughly the same price once you add the BADASS and Norgon Ambi to the ARFCOM. However, the AX556 uses a proprietary anti-rotation hammer pin and that has me a bit concerned as I use Geissele FCG's and I know that a G FCG isn't to be used with KNS Anti-Rotation Pins (Primarly due to hardness, and secondarily due to size spec's) and I am wondering if that carries over to the AX556 pin.
The AX556 pin:
"This precision heat-treated (case 58-60 Rc) hammer pin allows the use of all aftermarket triggers and helps to eliminate creep."
Any experience with the G/AX556 combo? Any thoughts on using anything but Geissele pins?
NoveskeFan
04-02-13, 13:10
Get the AXTS lower! I had an Arfcom lower, the AX556 is above and beyond. My AX556 has a Geissele SSA trigger with no issues. I did have to take some training time with the AX556. I just wasn't used to the ambi design.
MikeCLeonard
04-02-13, 19:39
I have two AXTS lowers with Geissele SD-3G triggers installed in them....and I haven't noticed any issue with regard to how the triggers feel...and don't foresee there being any reason to be concerned. You could always contact Geissele with this question though, as I'm sure they'd be able to give you a good answer.
Also, I don't know for sure...but you could probably use the standard Geissele hammer pin in the AXTS lower without issue, if you're so inclined. I don't see any reason why the AXTS lower would require the use of the AXTS pin. They should all be the same diameter, at least.
As far as AXTS vs. afcom lowers...Well, all I can say is that I'm very very impressed with the quality, craftsmanship, and features of the AXTS. They're easily the nicest lowers that I've encountered in every regard...and I've owned lowers from Colt, LMT, Bushmaster, Heckler & Koch, Noveske Gen1, and Gen2. There really isn't a single thing about the AX556 that I would change or do differently...And they aren't arfcom branded! :D
mkmckinley
04-02-13, 19:55
Those AXTS lowers are really nice but $430 for a lower seems like a lot. Of the two you mention I'd get the AXTS hands down but that' just me.
I can't answer your question regarding the trigger pin. You might also consider a Lancer L15 which has an ambi mag release but is also forged and has a cool interchangeable mag well. They're only around $200 and come with a magazine. You'd still have to add the Norgon though in order to have ambi mag release.
michaelkih
04-02-13, 20:59
Get the AX556 lower. I have 4 of them, and they ar AWESOME!
halfmoonclip
04-02-13, 22:07
Geissele's advice on my Colt 9mm was to run their pins and not the KNS.
I'm not sure if that is just 'not invented here' speaking or if there is a compelling reason, but Geissele makes good stuff and I have a lot of respect for them, so I took their advice.
Having tried the trigger both ways, I could not note a difference in weight of pull or cleanliness of break; it was just fine with both types of pins.
Moon
michaelkih
04-02-13, 22:14
Also, for what it's worth, I have ran one of my AXTS lowers in full auto with a short uppers and my RDIAS with over 10,000 rounds, and no pins have failed in it. The AXTS pin is plenty durable.
So I am looking at building my last AR15/M4 style firearm. Despite 16 years of experience with the traditional lower platform I've decided to give an ambi lower a try for this build (I am left eye dominate).
I am split between the cartoony ARFCOM lower (hate that logo/website engraving, but love the layout) and the AXTS AX556.
They both come out to roughly the same price once you add the BADASS and Norgon Ambi to the ARFCOM. However, the AX556 uses a proprietary anti-rotation hammer pin and that has me a bit concerned as I use Geissele FCG's and I know that a G FCG isn't to be used with KNS Anti-Rotation Pins (Primarly due to hardness, and secondarily due to size spec's) and I am wondering if that carries over to the AX556 pin.
The AX556 pin:
"This precision heat-treated (case 58-60 Rc) hammer pin allows the use of all aftermarket triggers and helps to eliminate creep."
Any experience with the G/AX556 combo? Any thoughts on using anything but Geissele pins?
Those AXTS lowers are really nice but $430 for a lower seems like a lot. Of the two you mention I'd get the AXTS hands down but that' just me.
I can't answer your question regarding the trigger pin. You might also consider a Lancer L15 which has an ambi mag release but is also forged and has a cool interchangeable mag well. They're only around $200 and come with a magazine. You'd still have to add the Norgon though in order to have ambi mag release.
Take a nice billet lower and add the ambi features (the Mega Ambi billet is $237.00). The Norgon ambi mag release alone is $90.00. Now think about how much the right hand side bolt lever would cost and then add the additional hardware that comes with the lower. Now consider that the AXTS has a feature that no one else in the game has. $430.00 sounds a lot more reasonable now, doesn't it?
mkmckinley
04-04-13, 21:40
L15 plus $90 for a Norgon, assuming you need/want it would only be $290 MSRP, and it's forged.
L15 plus $90 for a Norgon, assuming you need/want it would only be $290 MSRP, and it's forged.
Billet lowers cost more than forged. Plus, you would still be missing the magic ingredient.
NoveskeFan
04-04-13, 21:51
Are they still available? I haven't seen anything new for about 2 years.
L15 plus $90 for a Norgon, assuming you need/want it would only be $290 MSRP, and it's forged.
Are they still available? I haven't seen anything new for about 2 years.
They have constantly trickled out. Don't quote me but I think the typical wait time is around 5-6 months.
NoveskeFan
04-04-13, 22:39
They have constantly trickled out. Don't quote me but I think the typical wait time is around 5-6 months.
For the Lancer? I waited about 6 months for my AX556...worth it!!! No experience with the L15, though.
mkmckinley
04-04-13, 23:25
Billet lowers cost more than forged. Plus, you would still be missing the magic ingredient.
Which is what, exactly?
Which is what, exactly?
Right side bolt catch. The other ambi lowers only have right side bolt release.
For the Lancer? I waited about 6 months for my AX556...worth it!!! No experience with the L15, though.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the AXTS wait times.
Army Chief
04-05-13, 08:52
Having owned a Magpul lower which I believe to be nearly the same design as the ARFCOM component, I would not really consider it the ne plus ultra of contemporary ambi lowers; in fact KAC's E3 lower is functionally superior in my estimation, and the AXTS 556 is even a small step above that. The Magpul lower was an important step in the right direction, but we're really past that point.
Can't speak to the Geissele question specifically, but I've got a Wilson Combat TTU in mine, and have had no problems with assembly or function, so the pin issue may be just a bit overstated in my view. Either way, the AXTS is a very well-made part with unique features, and it is worth the price of admission for those seeking an ambi capability.
AC
Received my AX556 back in November and it is my favorite lower thus far. Geissele SD-C with the AXTS pin and no issues. The Geissele pin can be used if you want.
Army Chief
04-06-13, 18:16
Never thought of that. I suppose it would be no problem to use a standard pin -- you simply give up the anti-rotation properties designed into the factory part.
AC
Never thought of that. I suppose it would be no problem to use a standard pin -- you simply give up the anti-rotation properties designed into the factory part.
AC
Yeah, I opted for the built in anti rotation. IIRC, all of MM's pics have a Geissele with the AXTS pin and I have no doubt that he has a much higher round count on these lowers than I do. Maybe he'll pop in and give a little insight.
Cylinder Head
04-06-13, 19:19
FYI the AX556 is pictured on their website with a Geissele SD trigger. I'd say that's a good sign.
Thanks for the input. I got ahold of Geissele and they didn't have any experience with the AX556, but was still nice to hear from them. I went ahead and bit the bullet and ordered the receiver, but at the expense of never ordering another stripped lower (I have a fair share of forged lowers in the parts bin, so it's not the end of the world).
militarymoron
04-08-13, 21:04
FYI the AX556 is pictured on their website with a Geissele SD trigger. I'd say that's a good sign.
that's because those are pics of my lower :)
you can use AXTS's hammer pin or a standard one in the AX556 lower.
i haven't had any issues with the AXTS hammer pin - i've got approx 5k rounds on that lower.
No issues with the AXTS pins here either on my lowers or my teammates' after many thousands of rounds. I have Geisseles in both of mine and have had no issues whatsoever.
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