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View Full Version : SO... Does the SAFE ACT Nullify the Preban?



Mac5.56
04-05-13, 23:50
Hey guys,

I just wanted to throw this out there. I have been thinking about loopholes lately with the (Not so) SAFE act and having read it I have to say it seems to nullify the legal difference between pre and post ban "assault weapons". How? you ask, it ties them all together as AW guns with more then one feature, but I see nothing in the law that makes a distinction between a pre ban and post ban gun. The only thing it does is ban future sales and define AW's as 1 feature weapons that we need to register by April 15th.

So, because they "got rid of loopholes" with this law, does this mean that all "assault weapons" are now created equal?

Can we modify our existing firearms beyond what was legal before January 14th since anything we register will, according to them, be acceptable?

What are your thoughts? They totally screwed the pooch on this in the language of the law and we may be able to re-attach that bayonet lug and have a super scary Pre-Pre-Ban AR15.

kmrtnsn
04-05-13, 23:56
The Safe Act was a recently passed New York piece of legislation that most Constitutional scholars would agree is fundamentally flawed in both its reach and the method in which it was signed into law. Too apply the deficiencies of a piece of state legislation against an expired piece of federal legislation is not tenable. If and when SCOTUS evaluates the Safe Act, which I see the New York Supreme Court upturning before that could ever happen, they will evaluate the process and the reach of the law, and not reinterpret old definition.

Hdog83
04-06-13, 07:22
kmrtnsn - he's talking about the NY state AWB that was passed during the '94 Federal AWB (with mostly similar 2-feature test, 10 round magazine limit with grandfathering, etc.) but that, importantly, did NOT have a sunset feature like the Federal ban. It has been in effect continuously, and (like MA and CT) has created a market for pre-9/14/94 receivers.

Mac 5.56 - it's a fair question, for sure. Are those sections of the original NY penal law containing the NY AWB still in effect, or were those sections "written over"/replaced by the text of the not-so-SAFE act? (I can't bring myself to look up and read the text of the statutes - it's just too painful.)

If the prior AWB sections are still there, then those AWB restrictions are still in place, and you can't just take a post-'94 receiver, build a no-ban rifle (or buy a current no-ban rifle) and then register it as an AW - you'd still be constructing / possessing a prohibited AW under NY law.

Maybe someone else who's done the work to read through it will come along and provide assistance....

kmrtnsn
04-06-13, 08:15
If you look at the old and new versions of NY Code 265.00-265.40 you'll see that various sections of the code have been replaced, or re-worded. Essentially, under the NY Code, the old AWB has been retooled, not replaced or rendered invalid.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm

a0cake
04-06-13, 09:32
I called in to the SAFE act information call center and was informed that if you own a Pre-94-Ban rifle, it remains legal but does have to be registered. However, I don't trust that the guy knew what he was talking about. I would not be surprised if someone got arrested trying to register a Pre-Ban with multiple features.

Mac5.56
04-06-13, 18:18
I called in to the SAFE act information call center and was informed that if you own a Pre-94-Ban rifle, it remains legal but does have to be registered. However, I don't trust that the guy knew what he was talking about. I would not be surprised if someone got arrested trying to register a Pre-Ban with multiple features.

Well we don't even know what the registration process will look like or include at this point.

Since the law made everything with a single feature an assault weapon, but anything owned before January 14th 2013 Grandfathered in if registered, it seems that unless they put a specific clause defining a difference between post 94 vs. pre 94 multi feature firearms that the law pretty much looks at all of them as the same.

a0cake
04-06-13, 18:21
Well we don't even know what the registration process will look like or include at this point.

Since the law made everything with a single feature an assault weapon, but anything owned before January 14th 2013 Grandfathered in if registered, it seems that unless they put a specific clause defining a difference between post 94 vs. pre 94 multi feature firearms that the law pretty much looks at all of them as the same.

Right, that's why I'm skeptical of his claim that having a pre 94 gun won't be a problem.

ICANHITHIMMAN
04-06-13, 19:14
It can be registered but still has to comply with the one feature test. I think the state knows none of us intend to do any such thing, thus we have a 500$ reward on all our heads.

Sentaruu
04-06-13, 19:31
i think it is messed up that the state keeps pitting people against eachother. but it is all a part of their game.

sjc3081
04-06-13, 19:33
My take is the NYS Supreme Court will uphold the Safe Act as it is a corrupt biased liberal court.

Sentaruu
04-06-13, 20:30
i hope to god it doesnt. you have most of the counties and county sherriff's opposing the legislation.

Mac5.56
04-06-13, 23:56
It can be registered but still has to comply with the one feature test. I think the state knows none of us intend to do any such thing, thus we have a 500$ reward on all our heads.

So I have heard your interpretation before from a friend of mine and several people in my community in the Mid Hudson, but as I've read the law I don't see this to be the interpretation.

The way the law reads to me is that all non single feature "assault weapons" can be grandfathered in if they were owned prior to January 14th. But I see no distinction stating how many features pre January 14th weapons can have.

I admit this shit is convoluted as all hell, which is why I wanted to start this discussion. I have my resume out to multiple free states trying to get the **** out of here. I have a 5 month old son. I made some major mistakes as a youth. I got on the straight and narrow, and before January 15th I was a clean cut law abiding, tax paying citizen of a state I have grown to love (despite it's quirks). I don't intend to register, but I don't intend to go to jail for what looks like could be my sons entire childhood all because of a $500 reward my college student neighbors decide to call in to pay for text books or kegs.

The bounty Cuomo put on our heads has me thinking as a new father, and guys I'm nervous. I'm pissed off as you all are. But I would hate to loose touch with my boy because of this shit... If I can register my guns and then have the freedom to **** around with them as I see fit (ie I can now collapse my stock and thread my barrel) in ways I couldn't before. It seems like the only appealing way to make me comply, ten round magazines suck I agree but it's better then nothing if we can't leave (I sold all of my standard capacity magazines at a yard sale for five bucks a pop to a group of MS13 members who came up and bought the entire lot of them quoting how Cuomo's SAFE act had made their lives so difficult and they were going to have to leave the state forever the next day because they didn't want to break his new law).

As it stands now I will be doing everything I can to leave this state with my new family. All of my taxes, all of the money I spend in this ****ing money pit will go elsewhere. If I can't find a job elsewhere and the big green keeps me in this ****ing state all of my questionable guns are going to be stored out of state as of April 15 2014... ;)

While we await the courts and the phone calls from future employers why not find some ****ing loop holes to protect us?

If you don't already please follow this guy, he's the VP of NYSRPA

http://www.gunpoliticsny.com

jpmuscle
04-07-13, 00:24
That was my take on it as well respect to grandfathered guns not needing to comply with the one feature nonsense but the law as I read it appears to directly contradict itself it more ways then one... that said I see nothing in it barring possession of and purchasing of lower recievers since their is no way to ascertain it's state of compliance. Its just a lower, nor is there anything saying said lowers can't be bought and registered as a pistol save for the weight restrictions. At any rate if build up an AR pull the gas tube or do something else with the DI system to render it a non semiautomatic then its exempt from needing to be registered anyway.

But like y'all said noone is going to comply anyways so the hell with them.

SMETNA
04-07-13, 00:56
The Ontario County Sheriffs dept supposedly said at a public meeting with Assemblyman Kolb, that they won't enforce most of the SAFE act. I wasn't there, but a friends dad was. Heard it from him.

So that's comforting. At least I don't have to sleep with my AR and a gas mask next to my bed until I move. :lol:

ICANHITHIMMAN
04-07-13, 08:47
The Ontario County Sheriffs dept supposedly said at a public meeting with Assemblyman Kolb, that they won't enforce most of the SAFE act. I wasn't there, but a friends dad was. Heard it from him.

So that's comforting. At least I don't have to sleep with my AR and a gas mask next to my bed until I move. :lol:

The entire sheriffs association said they are not going to enforce it? No one will comply thus the 500$ rewards lol wtf.

ICANHITHIMMAN
04-07-13, 08:52
So I have heard your interpretation before from a friend of mine and several people in my community in the Mid Hudson, but as I've read the law I don't see this to be the interpretation.

The way the law reads to me is that all non single feature "assault weapons" can be grandfathered in if they were owned prior to January 14th. But I see no distinction stating how many features pre January 14th weapons can have.

I admit this shit is convoluted as all hell, which is why I wanted to start this discussion. I have my resume out to multiple free states trying to get the **** out of here. I have a 5 month old son. I made some major mistakes as a youth. I got on the straight and narrow, and before January 15th I was a clean cut law abiding, tax paying citizen of a state I have grown to love (despite it's quirks). I don't intend to register, but I don't intend to go to jail for what looks like could be my sons entire childhood all because of a $500 reward my college student neighbors decide to call in to pay for text books or kegs.

The bounty Cuomo put on our heads has me thinking as a new father, and guys I'm nervous. I'm pissed off as you all are. But I would hate to loose touch with my boy because of this shit... If I can register my guns and then have the freedom to **** around with them as I see fit (ie I can now collapse my stock and thread my barrel) in ways I couldn't before. It seems like the only appealing way to make me comply, ten round magazines suck I agree but it's better then nothing if we can't leave (I sold all of my standard capacity magazines at a yard sale for five bucks a pop to a group of MS13 members who came up and bought the entire lot of them quoting how Cuomo's SAFE act had made their lives so difficult and they were going to have to leave the state forever the next day because they didn't want to break his new law).

As it stands now I will be doing everything I can to leave this state with my new family. All of my taxes, all of the money I spend in this ****ing money pit will go elsewhere. If I can't find a job elsewhere and the big green keeps me in this ****ing state all of my questionable guns are going to be stored out of state as of April 15 2014... ;)

While we await the courts and the phone calls from future employers why not find some ****ing loop holes to protect us?

If you don't already please follow this guy, he's the VP of NYSRPA

http://www.gunpoliticsny.com
I had the name of an agency in TX that takes applications every 2 weeks and is hiring, I will have to get back to you on that. It was a tip from my nuke plant security buddy, who applied.

From my wife, my state police buddies and Firearms attorney Sheldon Boyce our collective understanding is that we would have to change our pre ban guns to single feature weapons, there is no grandfathering.

Mac5.56
04-07-13, 15:50
I had the name of an agency in TX that takes applications every 2 weeks and is hiring, I will have to get back to you on that. It was a tip from my nuke plant security buddy, who applied.

From my wife, my state police buddies and Firearms attorney Sheldon Boyce our collective understanding is that we would have to change our pre ban guns to single feature weapons, there is no grandfathering.

I would appreciate that and it would be very kind of you to provide me that info.

I really hope your (and several of my friends) interpretation is wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

Do any of you know anyone that has registered a firearm and what the process was like?

jpmuscle
04-07-13, 18:46
I had the name of an agency in TX that takes applications every 2 weeks and is hiring, I will have to get back to you on that. It was a tip from my nuke plant security buddy, who applied.

From my wife, my state police buddies and Firearms attorney Sheldon Boyce our collective understanding is that we would have to change our pre ban guns to single feature weapons, there is no grandfathering.

ICAN, if your feeling generous forward that info my way as well. I sorta have my heart set on Kentucky presently but who knows if my plane over shoots Texas wouldn't be so bad lol. Also I replied to your PM.



Do any of you know anyone that has registered a firearm and what the process was like?

I haven't seen anything yet as far as the registration process but the west end of the state is not as progressive as those towards the east lol. I'm imagining that it will mirror the Pistol Permit process in some ways but since individual counties handle their own and their is variability that may not work. Plus grumblings suggest they don't have the funding to fully implement a statewide database and the counties all got pissed when the state supposedly tried to put the financial burden on them to front the cost of the database when they were told they wouldn't. So in all honestly its probably just going to end up as a paper registration with your local NYSP barracks.. :rolleyes:

The state couldn't even put together a cogent law so I wouldn't expect them to be able to do this any better...

ICANHITHIMMAN
04-07-13, 22:06
There are several things in the works to undermine this law, I wanted to move before this and now is no different. I have a very good friend who has put it all on the line over this, he has done much more than me and most I know in this fight and he will most likely end up quitting the state police over this if he and his don't see action.

jpmuscle
04-07-13, 23:32
There are several things in the works to undermine this law, I wanted to move before this and now is no different. I have a very good friend who has put it all on the line over this, he has done much more than me and most I know in this fight and he will most likely end up quitting the state police over this if he and his don't see action.

Tell your friend we said thank you the fullest extent possible.

SMETNA
04-08-13, 01:55
Tell your friend we said thank you the fullest extent possible.

This. Talk about giving your life in the defense of freedom.

jpmuscle
04-09-13, 03:23
Ill just leave this right here.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/new-york-gun-confiscation-underway/#axzz2Pv5dyD8w

And I will add that having spoke with a number of my friends in clinical circles (e.g. social workers, nursing, etc) who work in outpatient/inpatient psych counseling there is a big push from the state to more or less expand the reach of the new 9.46 reporting laws to include patients who don't even meet emergency involuntary admission criteria. Meaning their not in such a state of crisis that they sre a harm to themselves or others just upset or depressed essentially.

Sooo yea, awesome.

SMETNA
04-09-13, 03:38
Another reason why I don't have a pistol "permit" here. #1, the idea of it offends me, and #2, shit like this happens. They arbitrarily take away your "permission" to exercise your "privilege"

ICANHITHIMMAN
04-09-13, 06:15
For you guys that asked Arlington TX is the place. The James Town troopers to the best of my knowledge are not targeting the ranges. The guys that I spoke to speculated it may be one ass-clown trying to make a name for himself but they are not aware of any orders. The trooper survey is in circulation and its 99.1% in opposition to SAFE but its going to take time to get it all together.

Mac5.56
04-10-13, 09:43
Ill just leave this right here.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/new-york-gun-confiscation-underway/#axzz2Pv5dyD8w

And I will add that having spoke with a number of my friends in clinical circles (e.g. social workers, nursing, etc) who work in outpatient/inpatient psych counseling there is a big push from the state to more or less expand the reach of the new 9.46 reporting laws to include patients who don't even meet emergency involuntary admission criteria. Meaning their not in such a state of crisis that they sre a harm to themselves or others just upset or depressed essentially.

Sooo yea, awesome.

I was waiting for this to happen. One of the main ways that I argued to the people I know who support gun control that this law is bad was because of the pitfalls of the 9.46 reporting laws.

They all insisted such a reality would never happen to people unless it was absolutely necessary.

There is no way this law can stand, it is going to get hit from all directions with challenges.

jpmuscle
04-10-13, 15:16
Abuse was inevitable from day one.

francis
04-26-13, 04:39
That was my take on it as well respect to grandfathered guns not needing to comply with the one feature nonsense but the law as I read it appears to directly contradict itself it more ways then one... that said I see nothing in it barring possession of and purchasing of lower recievers since their is no way to ascertain it's state of compliance. Its just a lower, nor is there anything saying said lowers can't be bought and registered as a pistol save for the weight restrictions. At any rate if build up an AR pull the gas tube or do something else with the DI system to render it a non semiautomatic then its exempt from needing to be registered anyway.

But like y'all said noone is going to comply anyways so the hell with them.

Thats a really good point. In the UK they transformed a number of former semi autos into straight pull back bolt rifles. I got to see them first hand at a British gun club in 2005.

TF82
05-05-13, 03:40
I was wondering the same thing as the OP. I know that pre-unSAFE Act firearms do not have comply with the newest feature test as long as they are registered since compliant rifles do not have to be registered. The last time I read the law it seemed like the banned by name section was gone and there was nothing indicating that registered "assault weapons" had to comply with the prior NY "assault weapon" ban.

As per PL 265.00-22a(v) The term "assault weapon" does not include, "any weapon validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter. Such weapons shall be subject to the provisions of paragraph (h) of this subdivision. [Paragraph H deals with the transfer or sale of such weapons]

PL 400.00-16a specifies what registration information is to be given and to whom, and when the weapon had to be owned, but says nothing about features.

Twisted10
05-14-13, 14:18
there is no such thing as a preban now. any rifle w/ the evil features is considered an assault rifle and must be registered.

all previous laws are gone once the safe act started.


:mad:

jpmuscle
05-14-13, 15:37
any rifle w/ the evil features is considered an assault rifle and must be registered.




:mad:

I wish them well in this endeavor... ha.

2k12ss
05-14-13, 16:03
http://104.imagebam.com/download/iKDPqT0LSKHJ6bv94qdHkQ/25459/254588548/944210_10151644132647359_766145379_n.jpg

Twisted10
05-16-13, 14:04
i live in NY. We are fighting, but im not real optimistic.

My wife and I are debating moving into PA. Ive had enough.

Alpha Sierra
05-17-13, 07:00
Abuse was inevitable from day one.

Intended consequence

jpmuscle
05-17-13, 17:45
Intended consequence

Obviously..

Twisted10
05-18-13, 12:20
intended consequence for sure. it also is designed for us to just give up and say F it.

this law is so complex and so f-ed up that a common man cant wrap his head around it. therefor he either moves, complies, breaks the law or gives up and sells all his shit.

but think of the children we have saved! :stop:

NYH1
05-29-13, 01:53
So if I register my post-ban compliant AR's, I'll be able to put flash hiders, collapsible stocks, bayonet lugs on them?

NYH1.

jpmuscle
05-29-13, 02:01
So if I register my post-ban compliant AR's, I'll be able to put flash hiders, collapsible stocks, bayonet lugs on them?

NYH1.

That's what I gather.. Probably won't matter though your going to be treated like a domestic terrorist for owning one anyway.

ICANHITHIMMAN
05-29-13, 06:59
So if I register my post-ban compliant AR's, I'll be able to put flash hiders, collapsible stocks, bayonet lugs on them?

NYH1.

See the way I read it is you have to neuter your rifle to one feature. I also am not directing this next comment at anyone, just making it and asking you all to consider your God given rights, if you choose to roll over, wait until the very last day to make your decision. I already had to jump threw hoops to keep my personal info from getting out.

On another note I just grabbed a pistol permit application for my buddy in Monroe county (a year long wait). I was looking threw the forms and WOW, they added a lot of unconstitutional crap! You have a HIPA release form in there now, which if I'm not mistaken by signing you have just incriminated yourself if they find something they deem "scary" and that's a violation of the 5th. If he does not sign it then what, he waits a year to find out they said no and then has to go to court? After which the judge rules in his favor and he gets his little 150$ piece of green paper with a passport photo, that's only good for 5 years now inst-id of life. I should sue for breach of contract or some shit! In Monroe county you have to have 4 character witnesses, who have known you for 5 years and can attest and sign in-front of a notary to your mental state. The sheriff then calls and interviews everyone of them, at the end of which he ask them for another person who knows you, then he calls them and ask for another person etc.

On the flip side my father in law is in Skyler county and he went down filled out the form and had the permit in 2 months, they did not even call anyone to check him out. A friend in Livingston county applied and had his in a month, they sent me a letter with two boxes, check one if crazy, check two if not crazy and return postage paid, then that person gets an id card that looks just like a CAC card.

I have permits in a lot of states and NY just sucks! I cant wait to leave!


IF YOU CHOOSE TO REGISTER YOUR A TRAITOR! (this comment is not directed at anyone just my personal belief)

Mac5.56
05-29-13, 09:24
See the way I read it is you have to neuter your rifle to one feature. I also am not directing this next comment at anyone, just making it and asking you all to consider your God given rights, if you choose to roll over, wait until the very last day to make your decision. I already had to jump threw hoops to keep my personal info from getting out.

On another note I just grabbed a pistol permit application for my buddy in Monroe county (a year long wait). I was looking threw the forms and WOW, they added a lot of unconstitutional crap! You have a HIPA release form in there now, which if I'm not mistaken by signing you have just incriminated yourself if they find something they deem "scary" and that's a violation of the 5th. If he does not sign it then what, he waits a year to find out they said no and then has to go to court? After which the judge rules in his favor and he gets his little 150$ piece of green paper with a passport photo, that's only good for 5 years now inst-id of life. I should sue for breach of contract or some shit! In Monroe county you have to have 4 character witnesses, who have known you for 5 years and can attest and sign in-front of a notary to your mental state. The sheriff then calls and interviews everyone of them, at the end of which he ask them for another person who knows you, then he calls them and ask for another person etc.

On the flip side my father in law is in Skyler county and he went down filled out the form and had the permit in 2 months, they did not even call anyone to check him out. A friend in Livingston county applied and had his in a month, they sent me a letter with two boxes, check one if crazy, check two if not crazy and return postage paid, then that person gets an id card that looks just like a CAC card.

I have permits in a lot of states and NY just sucks! I cant wait to leave!


IF YOU CHOOSE TO REGISTER YOUR A TRAITOR! (this comment is not directed at anyone just my personal belief)

I agree with what you are saying I just found it really funny that the website was saying that if we register we can make our firearms have more deadly features.

As for the pistol permit process I just read that we only had till May 10th to opt out of public disclosure. Where the **** was that publicized, so does that mean that now I can't opt out of having my permit remain private?

Everything about this bill gets me seeing red. The fact that now they are trying to exempt retired LEO from the law just pisses me off even more. Cuomo is going to try his hardest to appease the LEO community so that they stop opposing the law, and then once he's done that he can run for re-election without the entire community of law enforcement refusing to back him. My statement to those in the Law Enforcement community is do not fall for this trick and turn this state into a society with two tiers of citizens, one's with rights and those without.

jpmuscle
05-30-13, 04:02
As for the pistol permit process I just read that we only had till May 10th to opt out of public disclosure. Where the **** was that publicized, so does that mean that now I can't opt out of having my permit remain private?

.

And that was only if they felt you qualified for a FOIL exemption (e.g. live with an LEO)

The whole state is a shit show.

TF82
05-30-13, 09:55
The text of the law appears to require no neutering of registered firearms.

At this point it is not even known if Cuomo will sign that exemption bill. It is pretty well known in police circles that he does not like law enforcement very much and his actions regarding binding contract arbitration indicate he really does not care about law enforcement political support.

Frankly, he can sign all the exemptions he wants, I still don't known anyone in law enforcement who supports this law. In fact, I know guys who used to be in favor of "assault weapons" bans who are now opposed thanks to this nonesense. Obviously, however, recent events show that there are some varying opinions, unfortunately.

ICANHITHIMMAN
05-30-13, 10:47
And that was only if they felt you qualified for a FOIL exemption (e.g. live with an LEO)

The whole state is a shit show.

100% correct, I was forced to do it by my wife. I want the criminals to come here I dare them! They wont get past the pit! Or my neighbors.

ICANHITHIMMAN
05-30-13, 10:49
I'm seeing this trend as well, the whole issue has been an education process for a lot of people, I have made some great new friends and found out who my true friends really are.


The text of the law appears to require no neutering of registered firearms.

At this point it is not even known if Cuomo will sign that exemption bill. It is pretty well known in police circles that he does not like law enforcement very much and his actions regarding binding contract arbitration indicate he really does not care about law enforcement political support.

Frankly, he can sign all the exemptions he wants, I still don't known anyone in law enforcement who supports this law. In fact, I know guys who used to be in favor of "assault weapons" bans who are now opposed thanks to this nonesense. Obviously, however, recent events show that there are some varying opinions, unfortunately.

Mac5.56
05-30-13, 14:22
And that was only if they felt you qualified for a FOIL exemption (e.g. live with an LEO)

The whole state is a shit show.

So the fact that I have had Hell's Angels threaten me, and I've sent people to jail for long periods of time in my line of work but I am not an LEO means I wouldn't even qualify. **** THEM!

Mac5.56
05-30-13, 14:24
I'm seeing this trend as well, the whole issue has been an education process for a lot of people, I have made some great new friends and found out who my true friends really are.

I agree with this for sure. I have lost several close friends as a result of this law. If you're going to so willingly throw me and everyone who owns a firearm under the bus because you're afraid of the bogey man, you have not place in my life.