View Full Version : Bushmaster Carbon Thoughts
Oscar Mike
04-05-13, 23:59
I've been wanting an AR for a while and was hoping to find a Colt 6920, but finances were pretty tight and then the Hook fiasco hit.
Well, 6920s disappeared faster than 22LR ammo. I got a call from an acquaintance at a LGS and he told me they had received a Bushmaster Carbon 15. He gave me first shot at it, so I decided to go ahead and put it in layaway. BM is far from my first choice of AR manufacturers. But, at under $900, it was hard to pass up.
It's going to be a range/HD gun, so I think it will do fine.
I'm hoping to move up to a 6920 or Sig M400 for my second AR.
What are your experiences with the Carbon or BM in general?
What are your experiences with the Carbon or BM in general?
Did you do any research on them at all? More importantly, can you swap it out for something else?
I attended a Bennie Cooley carbine course where one of the shooters had a carbon 15. He had a feedway stoppage every time he tried to fire it. After holding up the class on every drill the instructor told him to get the gun off the firing line. Lucky for him someone loaned him their spare. I realize that is only a sample of one but its not my first bad experience with Bushmaster.
There have been numerous posts here about the Carbon 15, with none of them being very flattering...
If you can move that deposit to another gun (perhaps an economical S&W M&P option) it would be recommended by most of the FOGs here and in the AR community as a whole.
More importantly, can you swap it out for something else?
:sarcastic:
Seriously though, the terms "range toy" and "home defense gun" are not even remotely similar. It will probably make a fine toy.
Can you get out of the layaway? The C-15 is a very low end AR normally selling for $600. You really should set your sights higher.
I attended a Bennie Cooley carbine course where one of the shooters had a carbon 15. He had a feedway stoppage every time he tried to fire it.
That is because they are known for carving out a groove/ divot under the barrel extension. Once it starts, it will continue to gouge it more and more rendering the weapon giving the issues you describe. The bullet tips hit where the feedramps should be.
Can I run it over with a bradley or crush it in the ramp door?
DROP RAMP!!!!
vicious_cb
04-06-13, 02:15
Can I run it over with a bradley or crush it in the ramp door?
DROP RAMP!!!!
You cant even fall on a carbon 15 without breaking it :rolleyes:
Get out of the layaway and go over to www.gandrtactical.com and buy a Colt LE6900 for $900.
BufordTJustice
04-06-13, 02:43
Save up for something like this:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=311054
A Colt 6920 would be great as well. I would regard your Bushy carbon 15 as a cheap Chinese copy of an ar15 (though it is made in the US).
I don't say this often, but you should EXPECT it to fail.
There are many good options and we'll do our best to supply them to you. Do your best to unload it...the climate is still right for that.
Can I run it over with a bradley or crush it in the ramp door?
DROP RAMP!!!!
A bit excessive dont ya think?? You can just as easily accomplish that with a bicycle.
Kidding aside, OP, you need to get out of it... Atleast see what else your LGS can get for you in lieu of the C15.
polymorpheous
04-06-13, 05:22
Jumping on the pile here to say, get out of the layaway.
The Bushmaster should not be considered for home defense.
Even more so their Carbon-15 line.
http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/you-are-about-to-make-a-mistake-dog.jpg
I owned one of those a while back (I only paid $580.00 for it btw) DO NOT GO THROUGH WITH IT! I couldn't wait to get something different! There are plenty of options out there if you just look hard enough. I'm sure one of the FAR more experienced members on here could help walk you through a better choice. I upgraded to a Spikes / BCM combo and I couldn't be happier! :dance3:
I think the concensus here is, don't ****ing bother. If its for HD, then really don't ****ing bother. Get something of KNOWN quality, spend the xtra $$$$, you will not be sorry.
Five_Point_Five_Six
04-06-13, 06:49
$900 for a Carbon 15? No freakin' way.
Rifles have been becoming more available over the past couple weeks. I would take the carbon 15 off lay away and just buy a quality rifle. That 900 bucks could be put towards many better options.
If you want to buy something immeadiately, Grant has the S&W M&P MOE for not much more than the carbon 15 and it will be a much better rifle.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=311054
And this is why friends are friends, and acquaintances are acquaintances. ;)
I would hold out for something much better if HD is a consideration. That C-15 will probably make you cry someday.
A work friend was all excited about his new DPMS that he 'scored' in February. I really didn't like popping his bubble, but that's what friends are for. I almost slapped him when he told me how much it cost. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. I'm sure it will make a fine range plinker.
Check out 'The Chart'.
In past 2 weeks I've seen or head about, five Colt 6920 Magpul Editions at 3 different Walmarts for $1097. Which is virtually the same price the Grant sells them for, so watch for G & R to get them back in stock. 2 of the 5 have been purchased by friends, one in black and one in FDE.
Get out of the layaway if at all possible and save up a couple hundred more.
I've never owned a carbon myself. The only time I have seen one is at our local range. I don't think it ever fired. The poor guy spent over 2 hours working on it. About 3 months later he was back-and spent the entire time working on it again.
Money is tight, but now you are planning on buying a second AR after dropping $900 on the carbon 15? How does this make sense?
But yea, the carbon 15 is no good for the reasons everyone said.
Oscar Mike
04-06-13, 17:04
Money is tight, but now you are planning on buying a second AR after dropping $900 on the carbon 15? How does this make sense?
But yea, the carbon 15 is no good for the reasons everyone said.
No. Money "was" tight. I'm not getting a second AR now. I'm just thinking about picking one up down the road.
Oscar Mike
04-06-13, 17:23
I'm in the process of getting out of the layaway. We'll see how that goes. The Colt 6900 and S&W definitely look like much better rifles. The BM was the first AR this guy had received in about 2 months. It was a regrettable knee-jerk reaction by me and I knew it was the wrong one soon after doing it.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Personally, I'd pass on the 6900 and wait for a 6920.
Army Chief
04-06-13, 18:32
I'm in the process of getting out of the layaway. We'll see how that goes. The Colt 6900 and S&W definitely look like much better rifles. The BM was the first AR this guy had received in about 2 months. It was a regrettable knee-jerk reaction by me and I knew it was the wrong one soon after doing it.
Thanks for all the help guys.
The mistake is more theirs than yours. A customer who genuinely doesn't know any different is really a victim in the AR market these days because most shops are eager to sell what they have in stock, and that usually equates to a higher-margin hobby grade rifle from the likes of Bushmaster, DPMS or another high volume producer.
From a business standpoint, it can be tough to focus on the higher end of the market, where the numbers can be tighter, and (more to the point) it can be harder to get adequate inventory. There are plenty of AR owners who would consider a Carbon 15 a good choice. They just tend not to populate a site like this one, where the emphasis is upon shooting and training, as opposed to the whole pride-of-ownership and bench photography schitck.
Read the advice that is so readily available here, and buy accordingly -- even if it means waiting for the right rifle and shelling out a few more coins. You'll be glad that you did.
AC
Oscar Mike
04-06-13, 22:44
I made a bad choice, so I'll live with it. I'll sell the Bushy and move on. Live and learn. I think I'll pass on the LE6900 too, as it appears to have NOT been produced by Colt.
I'll hold out for a 6920 and chock this experience up to AWB2 jitters.
It sounds as if you weren't able to get out of the lay away agreement on the BM Carbon, sorry about that. Some dealers treat it as if written in stone, especially if they run the NICS check on you already.
Good attitude about learning from a mistake and moving on, but don't beat yourself up too badly about it, we all make mistakes and most, if not all, have made at least 1 mistake when purchasing firearms and realized later that it wasn't what we wanted or what we thought it was.
The reason, I and others suggest the 6920 as a good first AR is that it's a Colt, it's mil spec and it comes with everything you need, plus it's a great platform to build upon.
Welcome to the M4 community, there's lots to learn and a lot of good information available here. Let us know what you get to replace the BM and how things go. When things return to something close to normal get as much trigger time as possible. If it's feasible for you, take a carbine class, if not get a couple of training DVDs to help you learn more about technique.
polymorpheous
04-07-13, 06:00
Put the Carbon-15 on GunBroker.
It will sell.
If you start it at $0.01 with no reserve, and end the auction late Friday night, you'll likely sell for more than you paid.
YMMV of course.
wetidlerjr
04-07-13, 06:13
I made a bad choice, so I'll live with it. I'll sell the Bushy and move on. Live and learn. I think I'll pass on the LE6900 too, as it appears to have NOT been produced by Colt.
I'll hold out for a 6920 and chock this experience up to AWB2 jitters.
FWIW, it IS produced by Colt.
.46caliber
04-07-13, 08:09
Put the Carbon-15 on GunBroker.
It will sell.
If you start it at $0.01 with no reserve, and end the auction late Friday night, you'll likely sell for more than you paid.
YMMV of course.
This is the course I would pursue if in your shoes OP.
SIG and S&W would be the lowest end I would start with. You could always drop $150 after the sale to grab a stripped lower so you're not left screwed. Then when you find the right AR, snag it, and you'll still have a lower for a future build or for sale. Colts can be found, even at good & fair prices, just gotta keep eyes peeled.
You could also find a gun shop that will let you sell it on consignment and get most of your money back on it.
If you can refrain from shooting the Carbon, it will help keep the value on GB. I don't see why you couldn't get it sold for at least $900, NIB on GB.
EDIT: Check with some other LGS. We have a small one here that manages to get a few ARs every week. They don't stay for long, but they haven't gone months without one coming through.
FWIW, it IS produced by Colt.
Regardless I'd take it over the BM Carbon 15 any day of the week. The carbon 15 is made of flimsy plastic.... and it's a Bushmaster.
I made a bad choice, so I'll live with it. I'll sell the Bushy and move on. Live and learn. I think I'll pass on the LE6900 too, as it appears to have NOT been produced by Colt.
I'll hold out for a 6920 and chock this experience up to AWB2 jitters.
I'm out of the loop on the 6900. Why do you think it isn't made by Colt?
LMFAO there are still "rumors" on the in tard webz that the 6920 isnt made by Colt ( it's a Stag/CMT dood).
:lol:
LMFAO there are still "rumors" on the in tard webz that the 6920 isnt made by Colt ( it's a Stag/CMT dood).
:lol:
I didn't say I believed it, I'd just like to know his source.
polymorpheous
04-07-13, 11:00
I think maybe they are talking about this. (Not the guys on TOS)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=118258
If you could've seen the upper flex while I torqued down a barrel nut on a carbon15 to 40lbs (+a few more for gas tube alignment) that alone would make me sell it. Not to mention it's a bushy, way way way over gassed and if I had to mortar it I don't want to know what would happen.
-Jax
If you could've seen the upper flex while I torqued down a barrel nut on a carbon15 to 40lbs (+a few more for gas tube alignment) that alone would make me sell it. Not to mention it's a bushy, way way way over gassed and if I had to mortar it I don't want to know what would happen.
-Jax
Whoops!
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ccup0g.jpg
Everytime I see or hear someone talking about buying one of these I think of this picture
http://i.min.us/ibV6xy.JPG
If you've never seen the pic, it was a female LEO's gun, she fell while carrying/deploying the gun and her weight did that ^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^Yikes!!!!
And if you want to fix that rifle the carbon 15 barrel nut will not screw onto a standard receiver. The nut is too wide......stupid.
-Jax
Wow, that's just plain damn ugly.........
Whoops!
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ccup0g.jpg
Everytime I see or hear someone talking about buying one of these I think of this picture
http://i.min.us/ibV6xy.JPG
If you've never seen the pic, it was a female LEO's gun, she fell while carrying/deploying the gun and her weight did that ^^^^^^^^
If I recall correctly even NASA has had some designs well, ah, blow the Fu€k Up...
justin_247
04-07-13, 16:29
If I recall correctly even NASA has had some designs well, ah, blow the Fu€k Up...
Seriously?
Bushmaster produces garbage products. Period.
The sad part is that people place their lives in their hands, yet they continue to fail to implement adequate quality controls. Shame on them.
The embarrassing part for me is that 5 or 6 years ago when a buddy bought a C-15 I thought that was one of the coolest ARs I had ever seen. It was one of the most technically advanced rifles on the market b/c of the polymer upper/lower. At least in my ill informed mind. :suicide:
Thank goodness I joined M4C 4 years ago.
-Jax
Army Chief
04-07-13, 16:37
It was one of the most technically advanced rifles on the market b/c of the polymer upper/lower.
Ahh, but was it striker-fired? ;)
AC
Touche Chief, Touche.
But I bet you could get a Carbon-15 through an airport metal detector!
-Jax
Army Chief
04-07-13, 16:48
But I bet you could get a Carbon-15 through an airport metal detector!
Only because nobody in the TSA wants one, either. =]
AC
mkmckinley
04-07-13, 16:50
Only because nobody in the TSA wants one, either. =]
AC
Nice one.
OP, bad news is you have a Carbon 15 on your hands. Good news is that with the panic you can probably sell it on gunbroker if you hurry.
I made a bad choice, so I'll live with it. I'll sell the Bushy and move on. Live and learn.
As I first posted, I bought the C-15 I owned for 580.00 I should have done my research but I was foolish and just excited to finally purchase an AR. However, after some SOLID advice and pointers I was able to build a real rifle a short time after I bought the BM. The difference in quality was immediately noticeable. But i digress from my reason for posting.
You can and should sell that thing immediately, I was able to sell the one I had for a little over a $1000 on gun broker (I started it at $200 with no reserve and let people bid on it). So you should be able to get your money back. I would then put that money towards a real rifle!
Oscar Mike
04-07-13, 18:52
I'm out of the loop on the 6900. Why do you think it isn't made by Colt?
I read on the AK-47 forum that the 6900 is made by Anderson Manufacturing in Kentucky. It's on the Internet, so it must be true. ;)
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