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View Full Version : The necessity of irons on a general purpose bolt action rifle.



SoDak
04-06-13, 00:49
The bolt action "trunk gun" thread ( https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=59287 ) has gotten me interested in building a similar rifle. I've got an idea of what I want to do for the most part, but have been stymied by what to do for iron sights. I was planning to use a stevens 200 for the base rifle which lacks any sort of iron sights. Seeing as the gun is going to be used with an optic and the cost/complexity or adding irons in a way that's satisfactory is proving to be difficult, I'm tempted to drop that part of the project and use this project to find out what works (and what doesn't) for a general purpose bolt action rifle. Thoughts on whether or not dropping the irons part of the project is an acceptable thing to do?

Rumpelhardt
04-06-13, 02:10
The Model 70 that has been my go to hunting rifle for over thirty years has no iron sights. Though it originally came with them I removed them the first year I had it because the front sight caused a shadow on the bottom of the sight picture of my scope. I have never needed them in all this time.

Rumpelhardt
04-06-13, 02:14
Now that I look non of my rifles that presently wear a scope have irons.

usmc1371
04-06-13, 11:11
Only one of my bolt guns has ever had irons, a cz 550 in 375 H&H. It was fun and the express sights were useful on paper plates and milk jugs out to 100 yds, maybe a little more. Then I put an older fixed 4X leupold on it and suddenly it was a hole new rifle. Hunted with it for a year and killed a forked horn buck at less than 20 yards with a face on head shot. (Never did find one of the horns!) could have made that shot with irons. Doe hunt two weeks later I destroyed a coyote at a couple hundred yds, to far for irons. Later that day shot a nice doe at just over 300, no way with irons. My point is that irons are fun and tuff but I wouldn't trade a low power scope for them. I also probably wouldn't take them off of a rifle if they just happend to be there.

citizensoldier16
04-07-13, 00:13
Personally, I don't own any bolt guns without optics. My iron-sighted rifle is a lever action Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. I use it when hunting in the woods or brushy areas where my shots will be less than 200 yards or so.

When I think of a truck gun, I think of a go-to gun which can do just about anything inside 200 yards. Coyotes, deer, boar, etc....it's just gotta work and put rounds downrange.

To me, a "truck gun" consists of two ideologies:

First, the iron sighted rifle. This rifle is plain. It holds ample rounds and is either lever action or semi-automatic. It can put rounds downrange in a hurry if needed, but it is also accurate out to 150-200 yards, with the latter being its max range for accurate fire. Anything beyond that is area or suppressive fire.

Second, the RDS rifle. This rifle is most often semi-automatic. It can fire accurately out to about 300 yards, as augmented by its RDS. It is robust, and can take a beating, but remain functional.

Outside of this, I consider the bolt guns with scopes. They are accurate out to 600 yards or more, but their optics and mountings make them more fragile and susceptible to bumping and jarring, which will throw off the zero. They generally do not have iron sights, as they are most often used for precision shots at distance.

I guess the point here is that my definition of a "truck gun" illicits the sense of stoutness and accuracy out to about 200 yards, not the precision and delicate nature of a scoped bolt rifle.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

SoDak
04-07-13, 00:21
I largely agree with you when it comes to a truck rifle citizensoldier16. Most of the time it's an AR pattern gun for the reasons you mentioned. I have considered doing something with a marlin 336, but I'm shy of the new ones and used ones are uncommon and pricier than expected.

For the most part I was toying with the idea of having a compact lightweight .308 rifle for the odd times I need such a gun, without spending too much. If money was no object I know what direction I'd go with this, but seeing as I haven't fully decided if this is a worthwhile thing to do, I was trying to cut a few costs. Just going with an optic over optic+buis would achieve that.

citizensoldier16
04-07-13, 00:47
I recently bought my 336 from a pawn shop. It's a 1996 manufacture with the safety. It's reliable as hell from my experience, and accurate out to about 200 with the factory sights.

That being said, I'd stay away from the new ones. If you can find one, run the serial number to find out the year of manufacture.

IMHO, they're hard to beat as truck guns if you're priced out of an AR at this point in time. 30-06 or .35....it doesn't really matter. Both are potent rounds.

SoDak
04-07-13, 01:10
What did your 336 cost you? Seems like an average condition 336 costs $350 and up out here. I can handle the cost, but I've kind of held off because I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted to this project and all the 336's I have encountered are pistol grip. I much prefer the straight gripped marlins. Maybe I'll find one someday.

citizensoldier16
04-07-13, 01:42
What did your 336 cost you? Seems like an average condition 336 costs $350 and up out here. I can handle the cost, but I've kind of held off because I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted to this project and all the 336's I have encountered are pistol grip. I much prefer the straight gripped marlins. Maybe I'll find one someday.

I paid about $350 for mine. I have to admit that I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to a 336 as being a "pistol grip".

SoDak
04-07-13, 01:58
I've always heard the models with a curved lever as being the pistol gripped model. Like this.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Images/photo_336A_scope.jpg

What I'd like to find is one with a straight grip like this if I were getting a 336.
http://jdlawhon.com/leverguns/marlin336rc01.jpg

I have a few marlin 1894's with a straight grip and I prefer them. The Pistol gripped version feels somewhat awkward to me.

citizensoldier16
04-07-13, 22:00
Gotcha. I kind of figured that's what you were talking about, but I just wanted to make sure.

I'm a member over on MarlinOwners.com (same user name) and I recently saw a thread posted by a guy who actually converted his to a straight bottom model by just cutting down the stock. It looked pretty good.

Good luck in your search.

titsonritz
04-08-13, 03:09
I agree, the straight grip on the lever gun is where it’s at.

RyanB
04-08-13, 04:12
A fixed four power in good mounts would be ideal. Having the ability to remove the scope and use iron sights is an unnecessary complication.

I'd only use iron sights on rifles that recoil so much that a scope is impractical.

okie john
04-10-13, 00:01
I have jumped through this hoop several times over the years. It hurts me to say it because I grew up shooting iron sights, but I've finally given it up for a couple of reasons.

First, there's no reason to switch from a servicable scope to irons. A scope just beats irons hands down under any conditions, including driving rain. I didn't believe that until I started hunting in western Washington, but with good scope caps you're golden. (If the scope is damaged, then it's better to replace it with a back-up scope/rings combo that's already zeroed.)

Second, when you do switch from a scope to irons, the stock weld is different enough to cause major problems if you need to make a fast shot. I learned this by shooting over the back of the biggest blacktail buck I've ever seen, and I did it ten years ago in front of a witness who still busts my balls over it. The range on that shot, for the record, was about 25m.

Third, adding back-up irons to a bolt gun costs about as much as a used fixed-power Leupold in rings, which is a way better choice all around. Get a 2.5x if you live in brushy country, a 6x if you live on the plains, or a 4x if you can't make up your mind.


Okie John

mark5pt56
04-10-13, 18:50
What did your 336 cost you? Seems like an average condition 336 costs $350 and up out here. I can handle the cost, but I've kind of held off because I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted to this project and all the 336's I have encountered are pistol grip. I much prefer the straight gripped marlins. Maybe I'll find one someday.

If you find a decent 336 with the pistol grip, grab it and find a straight grip stock.