View Full Version : Heard something at a gun show...
Disclaimer: This is pure second hand info from a BVAC rep I met at gun show (I Know, I know...:eek:), just trying to get confirmation, opinions and info in general...
Was speaking with a representative from Bitter Root Valley Ammunition Company about the ammo shortage.
Specifically I wask asking about components and how available they are to BVAC. If they've amped up production to meet demand and general info regarding the shortage and their experience.
He mentioned that there is shipment with a MOUNTAIN of foreign manufactured gun powder (Specifically what BVAC uses to reload 5.56 NATO Rounds with) being held at customs in NY- it's been there for months and they are not releasing it for some reason.
I googled and came up empty other than a survival forum with similar info uncited.
Anyone here know more, can confirm or disprove this either way?
He didn't seem like a rumor-mill type of guy. He was very knowledgable during our exchange.
Figured I'd ask here since you are all so well informed and so much better at google-fu than I.
So what say you?
Rmplstlskn
04-08-13, 18:09
Nothing about that info, but I am surprised more has not been "held up" in customs...
Rmpl
El Pistolero
04-08-13, 19:02
Actually sounds plausible.
FlyingHunter
04-08-13, 20:35
That's actually very interesting as my local gun store owner operator told me and several of his regular customers that customs is holding train loads of imported ammo he and many other dealers have ordered and has been just sitting there for many months. He's a no BS guy, but I took it with a grain of salt...until I read this OP.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-08-13, 21:27
Disclaimer: This is pure second hand info from a BVAC rep I met at gun show (I Know, I know...:eek:), just trying to get confirmation, opinions and info in general...
Was speaking with a representative from Bitter Root Valley Ammunition Company about the ammo shortage.
Specifically I wask asking about components and how available they are to BVAC. If they've amped up production to meet demand and general info regarding the shortage and their experience.
He mentioned that there is shipment with a MOUNTAIN of foreign manufactured gun powder (Specifically what BVAC uses to reload 5.56 NATO Rounds with) being held at customs in NY- it's been there for months and they are not releasing it for some reason.
I googled and came up empty other than a survival forum with similar info uncited.
Anyone here know more, can confirm or disprove this either way?
He didn't seem like a rumor-mill type of guy. He was very knowledgable during our exchange.
Figured I'd ask here since you are all so well informed and so much better at google-fu than I.
So what say you?
Customs where? NYC or Buffalo?
If you think you have anything to point someone to, send it to Glenn Beck and Breitbart. Let them put some of their contacts to work on it.
I certainly would believe the Liberals will go to any possible legal or not to stop citizens from arming themselves.
PA PATRIOT
04-08-13, 21:50
I heard this same info a few different time as to why Wolf, Tula and the other imports are not available, supposedly its being held up in customs.
I heard the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot recently got into carbine classes.
I'm just glad I have more then enough ammo and enough training to locate and secure an ammo source if I am ever in a life and death situation where I need more.
More internet Bullshit. Goods can not be held up by Customs indefinitely. The law on this is very clear. Whether an in-bond detention, or a customs port detention is time limited. A notice is sent to the receiver, explaining exactly why a shipment has been detained. Any detained over a certain time limit is SEIZED, and again, notice is sent. The recipient can petition Customs for mitigation of penalty and release of the shipment. All of this could be found on the internet, if only..................................................................Title 19 U.S. Code and Title 19, Code of Federal Regulations are a good place to start.
I heard the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot recently got into carbine classes.
The closest to a true statement in this whole ****ing thread.
FWIW- I have been told that Barry has directed the BATFE to scrutinize all ammo importation and to kick back any Form 6's that are incorrect. In addition they are supposedly re-examining the sporting clause of the GCA of 1968 as well.
FWIW- I have been told that Barry has directed the BATFE to scrutinize all ammo importation and to kick back any Form 6's that are incorrect. In addition they are supposedly re-examining the sporting clause of the GCA of 1968 as well.
I loathe much of our government more and more everyday...
More internet Bullshit. Goods can not be held up by Customs indefinitely. The law on this is very clear. Whether an in-bond detention, or a customs port detention is time limited. A notice is sent to the receiver, explaining exactly why a shipment has been detained. Any detained over a certain time limit is SEIZED, and again, notice is sent. The recipient can petition Customs for mitigation of penalty and release of the shipment. All of this could be found on the internet, if only..................................................................Title 19 U.S. Code and Title 19, Code of Federal Regulations are a good place to start.
While I agree that the law is very clear on how, what, where and how long something can be detained or seized in customs; more often than not the reality of the matter does not equate to what is written. It's good to be the King as Mel Brooks wisely stated. There are many laws in the books and there are just as many laws ignored or not interpreted as one would think. Mistakes are made, paperwork lost, shipments not at their described locations..... Blah blah blah. Having been on the receiving end of things stuck in customs for weeks on end I can tell you that all those laws don't mean shit when the rubber meets the road. They are as effective as a restraining order is at stoping a raving lunatic from killing his wife.
I'm not suggesting that the OP is relating a 100% accurate story that hasn't been embellished through the grape vine of rumor mill, however to dismiss something because there is a law on the books is kind of naive.
brickboy240
04-09-13, 10:36
Got to be BS.
So is the word on Wolf and Tula Ammo.
I have actually seen Tula and Wolf (same ammo) at local Wal Marts and other large sporting goods sellers. Have not seen that in months.
If it was "stuck in customs" how did Wally World get the stuff?
LOL
Customs where? NYC or Buffalo?
He said NYC. I didn't ask for clarification on Buffalo Vs. NYC though...
More internet Bullshit. Goods can not be held up by Customs indefinitely. The law on this is very clear. Whether an in-bond detention, or a customs port detention is time limited. A notice is sent to the receiver, explaining exactly why a shipment has been detained. Any detained over a certain time limit is SEIZED, and again, notice is sent. The recipient can petition Customs for mitigation of penalty and release of the shipment. All of this could be found on the internet, if only..................................................................Title 19 U.S. Code and Title 19, Code of Federal Regulations are a good place to start.
Thanks for the info and title/code to research. I appreciate it.
As i stated in my OP- this this was second hand info and I wasn't taking it as absolute fact just doing some sleuthing on the matter.
With every hing going on these days- I wouldn't doubt these types of backdoor roadblocks COULD be utilized to impede those seeking ammo/supplies; regardless of the laws on the books.
Laws are flexible to criminals and I believe we have criminals running the country.
The verdict is still out for me on this one, but it may be complete rumor mill BS. I'm just not sure about anything in these twilight zone days...
Moose-Knuckle
04-09-13, 15:11
More internet Bullshit. Goods can not be held up by Customs indefinitely. The law on this is very clear. Whether an in-bond detention, or a customs port detention is time limited. A notice is sent to the receiver, explaining exactly why a shipment has been detained. Any detained over a certain time limit is SEIZED, and again, notice is sent. The recipient can petition Customs for mitigation of penalty and release of the shipment. All of this could be found on the internet, if only..................................................................Title 19 U.S. Code and Title 19, Code of Federal Regulations are a good place to start.
Since when have politicians and bureaucrats followed the rules?
Doc Safari
04-09-13, 16:19
In addition they are supposedly re-examining the sporting clause of the GCA of 1968 as well.
I KNEW IT.
Almost before this guy made the Oval Office chair warm I have been waiting for some legal beagle at BATFE to decide that technically any friggin' thing they want to make "non-sporting" will be banned by executive fiat.
Let's see if I (hopefully not) turn out to be right.
While I agree that the law is very clear on how, what, where and how long something can be detained or seized in customs; more often than not the reality of the matter does not equate to what is written. It's good to be the King as Mel Brooks wisely stated. There are many laws in the books and there are just as many laws ignored or not interpreted as one would think. Mistakes are made, paperwork lost, shipments not at their described locations..... Blah blah blah. Having been on the receiving end of things stuck in customs for weeks on end I can tell you that all those laws don't mean shit when the rubber meets the road. They are as effective as a restraining order is at stoping a raving lunatic from killing his wife.
I'm not suggesting that the OP is relating a 100% accurate story that hasn't been embellished through the grape vine of rumor mill, however to dismiss something because there is a law on the books is kind of naive.
Items "stuck in Customs" are usually delayed at the bonded warehouse. About 99.9% of the time, the issue is not with Customs but rather with paperwork moving through and between the bonded warehouse and the shipper. When an item is detained by Customs the port facility, warehouse, or shipper is stuck storing it at their cost. If an item is seized it is usually moved off-site for storage. Outside of outright contraband, Customs is loath to seize hazardous goods, like gunpowder as the cost of storage is prohibitively expensive. When hazardous goods are seized the are almost always immediately destroyed. Large industrial shippers of hazmat are very good about having their paperwork in order. In addition, the shipment of container-sized shipments can and is tracked electronically. A company like say Olin knows exactly where a container is in the shipping and customs process and when it will clear. So the thought that some Port director is sidelining ammo and ammo related components is complete nonsense.
Items "stuck in Customs" are usually delayed at the bonded warehouse. About 99.9% of the time, the issue is not with Customs but rather with paperwork moving through and between the bonded warehouse and the shipper. When an item is detained by Customs the port facility, warehouse, or shipper is stuck storing it at their cost. If an item is seized it is usually moved off-site for storage. Outside of outright contraband, Customs is loath to seize hazardous goods, like gunpowder as the cost of storage is prohibitively expensive. When hazardous goods are seized the are almost always immediately destroyed. Large industrial shippers of hazmat are very good about having their paperwork in order. In addition, the shipment of container-sized shipments can and is tracked electronically. A company like say Olin knows exactly where a container is in the shipping and customs process and when it will clear. So the thought that some Port director is sidelining ammo and ammo related components is complete nonsense.
Thanks for the breakdown. I am 100% in the blind as far as customs are concerned. Never really got around to doing research in this area other than getting some absinthe shipped here prior to the FDA approving small amounts of thujone in domesticically produced absinthe...
So are you saying this is 100% in the realm of bullshit? Without a doubt?
Is there any possible way around this, say if an unamed mayor beginning with the letter "B" endgin in the letter "loomberg" decided to foot the cost to store the ammo and hol dit up in customs?
I am not sassing you in any way, I am actually very interested in your opinion and the facts/information you have posted/might post- you seem to be a very intelligent and informed gentleman.
So is this 100% impossible in your eyes, or just REALLY REALLY unlikely to the point of being practically impossible?
Thanks for taking the time and adding your input.
Based on what has been said here, maybe it is possible that the source was confused about "stuck in customs" to mean that permits or licenses are being held back or taking a long time to be issued, not that actual product is sitting in customs somewhere?
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It's horseshit. Unless there is a reason we are seizing or detaining the merchandise due to it being inadmissible or a paperwork error, we don't "hold shit up" for no reason. Just like every other box our targeting team places on enforcement/NII hold, any containers of ammo are inspected and DTR unless we find a problem.
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