View Full Version : Preferences: rifle vs carbine
I've been told that (with the wide availability of M4-type weapons) "there's no reason for anybody to buy a full-length rifle any more".
Since I'm a range plinker (100-150 yards max) that's probably a valid statement. I was in a store yesterday handling some M4-type carbines and also the full-length AR-15's, and I like the extra heft of the rifle over the carbine. In fact these were 20-inch HBAR weapons so they're even a bit heavier.
Well, ended up putting the HBAR on layaway even though one fellow shopper said "Dude, nobody buys those any more. Get the carbine".
So I guess personal preference won out over practicality in this case. In all honesty, was my decision ill-informed?
Robb Jensen
03-23-08, 09:53
I prefer a 16" midlength to a 20" rifle.
For something even smaller I like a 10" carbine.
one fellow shopper said "Dude, nobody buys those any more. Get the carbine".
. Booger eaters like the GUY in the gun store think from their perspective only. Although to a certain extent, I find that I shoot my 20 inch weapon least of all my ARs lately.
I do enjoy shooting a 20 inch HBAR from time to time. I like the rifle's sight radius and low recoil for target shooting.
It's really about picking the right tool for the job, and the 20 incher is the least versatile for most people.
Both weapons were nice, it's just that the rifle seemed to speak to me more than the carbine. In the future (budget and political landscape permitting), maybe I'll get the carbine.
Azrael2004
03-23-08, 10:33
At the end of the day what really matters is that YOU are comfortable and happy with your selection.
I prefer carbines and SBR's myself, but that is what satisfies my mind as to fulfilling my needs (and wants :D ).
I would not be uncomfortable with a full length AR, as I have owned a few of them.
They satisfied an entire market of AR users for many years before the Carbine evolution.
Erick Gelhaus
03-23-08, 11:43
... cleaned up quote edited out by Erick ...
Wowza. Guess I missed the smiley.
... back to the question at hand ...
Go with what works for you, with what you are happy with. If it is purchased for fun, for pleasure that is pretty much all that matters - other than it working.
John Fettes
03-23-08, 14:22
In all honesty, was my decision ill-informed?
No, I would not say so; you got what you wanted, so you did well. Enjoy it. You can always add a 16" upper or buy a whole new carbine later. My first AR was a 20' and as others have said, it is not shot the most, but I still like it.
John
Nothing wrong with the 20 rifle. I have used them for years. There of course is the people that think if it's not new or worse "Tacticool" it is out dated. ;) Seeing as how you indicated this would be a range use rifle and not something you will be carrying as a police officer, military (yea I know they don't let people carry their own weapon), operator for ... fill in the name of the contractor, you have done just fine.
Now if you said you had just joined the local sheriff's office SWAT Team then I would say to rethink your choice.
Shoot and enjoy the rifle.
Nothing wrong with the rifle if you a KD shooter only.
They make poor self defence systems (compared to the carbine)
MarkM -- no reason for that shot.
I had the same dilema. I was between the S&W M&P M4 and the Armalite M15A4 20" hbar. I knew I wanted a flattop with no front sight because this gun would be shooting targets and wearing a big scope. Both rifles came highly recommended, and the Smith had the $100 rebate, but the 16" barrel and telescoping stock just wasn't what I was looking for. I am a target shooter, 100 and 200 yards, obsessed with tiny groups. So, the Armalite came home. Haven't regretted it at all. Shooting about 2.5" groups at 200 yards with handloads and 55 gr. FMJ's. Now it is time to try some match bullets and get serious!
Spend time working in and around vehicles and buildings, and you'll appreciate a carbine.
John Fettes
03-24-08, 06:31
Spend time working in and around vehicles and buildings, and you'll appreciate a carbine.
That's where I really came to appreciate the 14" barrel length on an 870; in and out of vehicles and in hallways.
And remember, if your budget permits, you can have more than one:cool:
John
MarkM -- no reason for that shot.
That may have read WRONG! I meant the goober in the gun store was probably a booger eater. I wasn't saying Rogers is a booger eater....
Let me edit that for clarity! :eek:
Sorry, Guys!
Failure2Stop
03-24-08, 08:26
I can see pleanty of reasons to go with an 18-20" rifle. It all depends on your needs/wants.
If you are shooting high-power/service rifle type competitions, the 20" will work better for you, for several reasons.
If you are shooting 3-gun or tactical matches, or want an SPR type rifle, the 18" rifle gas system works great.
If you want a GP gun, a 16" middie will probably work better.
If you want a CQB gun (or just want the look/feel) a 14.5(-) will work better.
Just because more people buy a certain configuration does not mean that your priorities are wrong.
John Fettes
03-24-08, 10:21
It all depends on your needs/wants.
I'm sure that this should be written in stone someplace. It's just hard for me to sometimes for me to balance one against the other!
John
variablebinary
03-24-08, 11:14
I like rifles. They shoot great, are quiet, have low recoil and run very clean.
I have taken a 20" HBAR through class before and didnt die in the process, but probably wouldnt do it again
But, on weekends out in the desert, I enjoy my 20". I have tons of fun with it
But, on weekends out in the desert, I enjoy my 20". I have tons of fun with it
Same here. I even put a mount for my silencer on my 20 inch barrel. Practical? No. But fun!
Recce rifles. although I have been involved with the AR fmaily of guns for years, I still have questions aobut the various lengths of barrels and their uses.
for instance, everyone knows a 20" is a rifle. and a 16" (or smaller) is a carbine. but what is the purpose of an 18" barrel?
I understand the "recce" concept, but is there enough distinction between the 16" and 20" to need to split the difference by just two inches? is there some magical combination of ballistics and handling that lends itself to this length?
Just like choosing caliber you pick the length of your barrel for the task at hand.
Plain and simple. The idiot at the gunshop doesn't know your needs.
20" guns are a lot of fun on the range.
They are NOT fun in buildings or vehicles.
I don't know about you, but I spend most of my time in or around buildings or vehicles.
decodeddiesel
03-24-08, 12:26
I have never been able to enjoy iron sight bliss on ANY other weapon like I can on a 20" A2 HBAR with National Match sights. This includes M14s and M1s. The sight radius, low recoil, and stock dimensions just lend it to be a great iron sight shooter. Enjoy your rifle for what it is, however also understand what it is not.
I dont tell people what to buy -- however, this site is predominate dedicated to defensive carbine usage, and one will typically get a different answer here weighted to the carbine with a rds, light and sling, than one would get a drunken plinker .com or a dedicated bellgun shooting forum.
As such asking for an answer here dont be surprised if the majority say carbine and question anything esle -- IF its a first or second gun.
variablebinary
03-24-08, 14:07
Same here. I even put a mount for my silencer on my 20 inch barrel. Practical? No. But fun!
Fun...Imagine that.
Are rifles as useful for building clearing and deploying from a vehicle? No. Obviously not. But unless you are in Iraq or A-stan, how often are you in this situation
However, my rifle is perfectly at home on 10 mile hikes, and shooting outdoors.
I own carbines and rifles. Its not a tactical faux pas to enjoy trigger time behind 20" of barrel.
If anything the popularity of rifles seems to be growing among shooters after a lull in the past few years
Are rifles as useful for building clearing and deploying from a vehicle? No. Obviously not. But unless you are in Iraq or A-stan, how often are you in this situation
I could be totally wrong but for most people, even in the worst case scenario, if they were to use a rifle in self defence, it would probably be within the confines, or in close proximity to a vehicle or a building, not while hiking.
Note, I'm not against owning 20" guns, but lets be realistic. If this turns into a "never going to happen" argument, then I will bow out of the foolishness.
Its not a tactical faux pas to enjoy trigger time behind 20" of barrel.
Actually it is a tactical faux pas! But I'm not a social shooter, so not too many people see my guns. :D
variablebinary
03-24-08, 14:42
I could be totally wrong but for most people, even in the worst case scenario, if they were to use a rifle in self defence, it would probably be within the confines, or in close proximity to a vehicle or a building, not while hiking.
You're correct.
However the OP by his own admission said "Since I'm a range plinker..."
If we were talking carbine class and defensive weapons, thats a different conversation altogether.
Actually it is a tactical faux pas! But I'm not a social shooter, so not too many people see my nonsense. :D
A tactical faux pas is picking up the wrong tool at the wrong time. Shooting a rifle in itself is not a faux pas...its just shooting.
I'm just not going to steer everyone automatically to a carbine unless they indicate an intent in which a carbine is better served. Rifles are great shooters, just like full size pistols are great shooters, but not practical CCW. Pick your poison, but do what makes you happy as long as you know the merit and short-comings and set realistic expectations
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