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I have carried a 1911 for 10+ years as my duty weapon. I have read many articles, researched the pistols, and have spoken with trusted professionals. The pistols I may change to are the M&P45 or the department issue Glock 22. You may ask, why go away from the 1911? Just a couple are capacity, continuity of weapons with other officers in worst case scenarios, and ease of availability of parts. I have handled and shot both pistols, but am just having a hard time putting the 1911 on the shelf.
Now I ask your opinions. Glock 22 or M&P45?
Magic_Salad0892
04-10-13, 12:55
I have carried a 1911 for 10+ years as my duty weapon. I have read many articles, researched the pistols, and have spoken with trusted professionals. The pistols I may change to are the M&P45 or the department issue Glock 22. You may ask, why go away from the 1911? Just a couple are capacity, continuity of weapons with other officers in worst case scenarios, and ease of availability of parts. I have handled and shot both pistols, but am just having a hard time putting the 1911 on the shelf.
Now I ask your opinions. Glock 22 or M&P45?
I would personally choose the M&P45 because I prefer the .45 to the .40. And because I think the M&P is a better platform for .45 than a Glock is for .40. If I was going .40 it'd actually still be an M&P for me. (Maybe an HK P2000.)
I have carried a 1911 for 10+ years as my duty weapon. I have read many articles, researched the pistols, and have spoken with trusted professionals. The pistols I may change to are the M&P45 or the department issue Glock 22. You may ask, why go away from the 1911? Just a couple are capacity, continuity of weapons with other officers in worst case scenarios, and ease of availability of parts. I have handled and shot both pistols, but am just having a hard time putting the 1911 on the shelf.
Now I ask your opinions. Glock 22 or M&P45?
If you like the ergos of the 1911 and want the slide release (which after 10 years of 1911 means it's become second nature) and various other reasons, M&P is the easy choice in my view. M&P has probably switched more 1911 shooters to polymer wonder pistol than any other single polymer pistol yet designed I'm guessing if feedback I have heard us any guide. It was the first one that appealed to me enough to shelf my beloved 1911s as primary CCW.
There's always something special about a good 1911, but to me, the M&P platform was the polymer wonder pistol that finally did it for me and no regrets.
Note: no Glock ever made me want to shelve my 1911s, so I'm biased anyway.
I too faced this dilemma, leaving the 1911 club in search of higher capacity and ease of logistics. Like you, I have done a lot of research and spoken with those I trust. The whole .45 vs .40 debate will be ongoing forever. Is the .40 the "perfect" round which everyone seeks? Absolutely not; however, it does offer things the .45 does not (capacity being the big one). Given high quality ammo (my personal choice being Remington Golden Sabre bonded), one cannot dispute the performance of the .40 as it compares to the .45. Now all you .45 guys, don't lose your minds on me! I am not insulting your caliber of choice, only pointing out that one who seeks high capacity in a reasonably sized package is in no way "undergunned". As far as the M&P vs. the Glock in general, both are great platforms (notice I did not say "perfect"). Many have been jumping the good ship Glock due to some QC issues with late 3rd Gen and early 4th Gen Glocks (tons of threads on this). These issues had easy fixes (not an excuse, a Glock should not need a "fix" right out of the box) and for the most part, were not related to the Glock 22, moreso the 9mm 4th gens. The M&Ps have not been without their issues as well. Many have overlooked the accuracy issues and poor trigger of the M&P simply because they were frantically looking to replace the Glock because the "perfect pistol" (Glock) showed a flaw. In short, I went with the Glock, as I shoot it better than any M&P I have ever handled in any caliber. It is a proven model (as close to long term proof as one can get to our dear 1911) and will serve me well. If you dig the M&P, I am sure it will serve you well also. Whatever you do, don't shy away from the .40 and the negative press it gets and for heaven's sake, don't overlook the outstanding track record of Glock due to some issues with a tiny percentage of their pistols that are found in service world wide.
PS- a Grip Force Adapter will make the changeover from a 1911 to a Glock quite painless
If you are concerned with interchangeability with fellow officers I would go with the Glock the G22 is the most widely used police sidearm in the country. Also while the MP is catching up the Glock does offer more holsters, sights, accessories, etc. than the MP at this time. Also if one of the reasons for going away form the 1911 is round capacity the G22 is a clear choice with 15+1 capacity hile the M&P 45 offers 10+1. The 40 gets bad press but I pack it everyday both on and off duty, have done so for years, and prefer it to the 45 or 9mm. It has a great track record with our dept's officer involved shootings as well as other agencies across the country.
Round capacity-Glock 22
Interchangeability w/ other officers-Glock 22
More similar to 1911- M&P 45.
Also if you have to buy your own ammo to practice with while the 40 is a little cheaper it is much more readily available at least in me part of the country. Another thing I like about the 40 is all the govt. contract over runs of premium ammo you can find cheap. I purchased 5,000 rds of Winchester Bonded Ranger for $14.99 per 50 back in the summer. While our dept does provide our carry loads they do not provide practice loads. This means I am able to practice with the same load I carry so I can be more accustomed to the exact recoil of that round and how it shoots thru my particular weapon. I have never seen any premium 45 loads available at such a low price.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-10-13, 15:19
The glock 22 would be my choice
G22. Lower long term cost, more sustainable in the field, more common in field use. Little to no difference in cartridge terminal performance.
I like .45 better than .40 because I shoot it better; but, in your case, I think the Glock 22 is the better choice. It's the pistol your department issues, which means most of your officers are carrying it. Since capacity and continuity with others in your agency is what you're looking for, I think it's by far the better choice. Though I'm not the biggest fan of Glock pistols in .40, in your position I would start getting cozy with the 22, and for that matter the 27 as a BUG.
As much as dislike .40 I would go with the G22 since it is department issue and you will be able to share mags ect.
Both of those options are good. I would go with the Glock as the stock trigger is more shootable in my opinion and you get 50% more mag capacity. For LE work the barrier penetration of the .40 can be beneficial as well (such as through auto glass). If you are dead set on .45 though the M&P45 is one of the better options.
Magic_Salad0892
04-10-13, 19:41
Also, you didn't specify is the G22 a Gen3?
If yes: M&P. If it's a Gen4: I change my mind. I'd roll a Gen4 G22/3 over an M&P .45.
But if you're used to shooting 1911s, an M&P .45 with ambi safety, and APEX FSS, and other parts, will make it pretty 1911 like. (I like the M&P .45 MID.)
Between those two, I would choose the G22. May I ask why you're not considering a Gen4 G21?
S. Galbraith
04-10-13, 20:27
Glock 22 would be my choice. It is a lighter package, better capacity, and the .40 is a bit better all around barrier cartridge.
Does the M&P have the magazine disconnect like a local agency has in my area. For me that is a negative to consider in your decision. I have shot both and prefer the Glock. I also prefer the Gen 3 Glock, its proven.
El Pistolero
04-10-13, 21:44
Does the M&P have the magazine disconnect like a local agency has in my area. For me that is a negative to consider in your decision. I have shot both and prefer the Glock. I also prefer the Gen 3 Glock, its proven.
I'm not sure if the first part was a question but I believe the M&Ps can be ordered with or without magazine disconnect saftey (and ambi manual thumb safety for that matter) to offer options to meet any agency's requirements.
My choice would be the Glock. The M&P is a fine pistol without a doubt. I have a 9mm shield and I love it. I have shot every caliber M&P and I gotta say that the ergonomics are actually better than the Glock.
The reason I chose the glock is simple. It's proven to be reliable and easy to find parts/mags for. Have you tried to find mags for any S&W lately?
Going from a 1911 I'd go with the M&P with a thumb safety.
Do you run a pistol mounted light? If so that is another reason to go with the M&P.
Do you have to go with the .45 caliber if you choose the M&P? If not then I think an M&P .40 would be a good choice.
If your allowed to make modifications to the trigger I'd do the M&P with an Apex kit. If not I'd go with the Glock. Every M&P I've shot, which is admittedly limited, has had a horrible trigger. I highly prefer the ergo's compared to the 2x4 Glock but just can't get over the trigger.
As far as caliber, it's individual preference and limited by SOP in most peoples case. I prefer .40. It's what I learned on and am most comfortable with. .45 certainly has enough proven real world results. , hard to go wrong. In the end shot placement is more important than the difference between the two.
In the end, shoot both and go with what you shoot better.
Alaskapopo
04-11-13, 01:44
I have carried a 1911 for 10+ years as my duty weapon. I have read many articles, researched the pistols, and have spoken with trusted professionals. The pistols I may change to are the M&P45 or the department issue Glock 22. You may ask, why go away from the 1911? Just a couple are capacity, continuity of weapons with other officers in worst case scenarios, and ease of availability of parts. I have handled and shot both pistols, but am just having a hard time putting the 1911 on the shelf.
Now I ask your opinions. Glock 22 or M&P45?
I went from my Wilson CQB to a Glock 17 by choice. 1911's are great pistols but they require maintance and upkeep to stay reliable far more than most modern designs. That and capacity was a deciding factor for me.
Pat
Two good choices. I personally carry a glock 19 as a ccw with that said i have had my hands on alot of handguns and run through alot of drills. I do prefer the m&p package over glock but slightly. Not enough to dump my 19 and all that i have in it. I am expired on glock and current as an m&p armorer. If i was going for a smaller duty gun 19. Full size 40 m&p. 45 for me it is a draw between the glock 21 sf and the m&p. I am not a fan of glock 40's and it took me losing money on three of them. But that is just me. Shoot them all and go with what you like best. Both will serve you well. I wil recommend that if you decide to go 40 glock make sure it is a gen 4 if you carry a mountef light full time.
Also, you didn't specify is the G22 a Gen3?
If yes: M&P. If it's a Gen4: I change my mind. I'd roll a Gen4 G22/3 over an M&P .45.
But if you're used to shooting 1911s, an M&P .45 with ambi safety, and APEX FSS, and other parts, will make it pretty 1911 like. (I like the M&P .45 MID.)
I believe the department has both Gen 3 and 4. But I know there are a lot of officers who have Gen 2 that haven't swapped out.
Between those two, I would choose the G22. May I ask why you're not considering a Gen4 G21?
Haven't handled or shot a G21...yet.
Going from a 1911 I'd go with the M&P with a thumb safety.
Do you run a pistol mounted light? If so that is another reason to go with the M&P.
Do you have to go with the .45 caliber if you choose the M&P? If not then I think an M&P .40 would be a good choice.
I do like the fact I can get the M&P with the thumb safety. It feels very similar to a 1911. Would make a change over fairly easy. Currently it is against policy to run a pistol mounted light...:mad: I don't have to go with M&P45, I just haven't shot the M&P40. I've read that the M&P40 is a nice pistol, it's just I prefer .45. But if I go with .40, it might as well be the department issue.
PS- a Grip Force Adapter will make the changeover from a 1911 to a Glock quite painless
Does the Grip Force actually help out he grip angle?
I went from my Wilson CQB to a Glock 17 by choice. 1911's are great pistols but they require maintance and upkeep to stay reliable far more than most modern designs. That and capacity was a deciding factor for me.
Pat
Pat,
What other reasons did you go from a .45 to a 9mm, other than the up keep and capacity? Why not a higher capacity .45? Thanks.
Does the job provide your ammo for both calibers is another question?
If so, little advantage to one or the other cost wise.
I carry and prefer 9mms because I do a lot of my own shooting and my job provides zero extra ammo outside of our two training days per year.
That the M&P with a safety would give you a platform you are already trained on, and a weapon retention advantage on the street, are important factors to consider IMHO.
That the M&P .40s are proving more reliable and durable than the Glocks in .40 would be another consideration for me.
If you like .45s then you may have answered your own question.
Grip Force Adapter does change the Glock grip angle. I like it, but don't take it from me. Check out the TACTV segment with Larry Vickers, Ken Hackethorn, and SuperDave Harrington. Mr. Hackethorn himself (a 1911 guru) likes the GFA on a Glock, making the angle a bit more 1911-like.
Does the job provide your ammo for both calibers is another question?
If so, little advantage to one or the other cost wise.
I carry and prefer 9mms because I do a lot of my own shooting and my job provides zero extra ammo outside of our two training days per year.
That the M&P with a safety would give you a platform you are already trained on, and a weapon retention advantage on the street, are important factors to consider IMHO.
That the M&P .40s are proving more reliable and durable than the Glocks in .40 would be another consideration for me.
If you like .45s then you may have answered your own question.
The PD does supply duty ammo for 9, .40, and .45, even .380. They also provide practice ammo at open range days and qualifications. It's been a bitch trying to pry ammo out of their hands for practice outside of the PD range. I had a training request to the Rob Leathem 3 Day course denied due to the amount of ammo required (2400 rounds).
The thumb safety is a big factor being out on the street. I'm not opposed to .40, I just like shooting .45 over .40. I like the ergos of the M&P over the Glock, but haven't tried one with the Grip Force Adapter. I like the capacity of the Glock, but I'm sure I could find 14 round mags for the M&P. Obviously it has gone to hell in a hand basket if I'm having to scramble for ammo from a fellow officer, but it is something I have considered with carrying the department issue. The department has started to buy and issue Gen4 G17 for officers with smaller hands and have had more difficulty with recoil control of the G22. Again I'd run into the same issue as the majority of officers carry the G22.
Decisions...decisions...
Cool that you can get ammo, at least at work.
I'm of the opinion that a thumb safety is a pretty big deal, contrary to popular opinion for the most part.
I know of no case where a cop had to get magazines from another cop in the middle of a fight, but I know of at least a dozen cases where a safety kept a cop from getting shot with his own gun.
I don't know about you but I am far more likely to end up on the ground with an asshole during an arrest than in a human wave attack firefight.
I also have access to a shotgun and a patrol rifle, and have a take-home car that has just a few extra rounds stashed in it.
If I had to start from scratch right now, and being able to choose whatever I want, I'd most likely go with a M&P .40 with a thumb safety and a X300 mounted, carried in an ALS system holster.
That said, I am very happy with my current battery of Glock 9mms for on and off duty use.
Magic_Salad0892
04-11-13, 13:25
Pat,
What other reasons did you go from a .45 to a 9mm, other than the up keep and capacity? Why not a higher capacity .45? Thanks.
I'm not Pat, but I posted something about the advantage of 9x19mm loads about two years ago, and thought it might be relevant.
.45 ACP has better intermediate barrier penetration, things like autoglass, car doors, and such will be defeated easier.
9x19mm provides extremely sufficient terminal performance, in most commercially available defense loads, and does okay against intermediate barriers. It costs less, and puts less wear on most pistols, which can equate to longer service life. Longer service life means less parts replacement, which equates to a cheaper weapon system, which means you have more money to allocate to other areas.
Usually the service life issue doesn't mean much to me, because I maintain my guns parts replacement intervals, and won't see a problem with it, but I'm not going to deny that there is an inherent advantage.
9x19 costs less to shoots, and delivers less recoil/muzzle jump per shot, which means more shots on target. 9x19mm weighs less, so you can carry more bullets with less weight, and single stack 9x19mm pistols are suuuuper thin. (IE: Walther PPS, Kahr offerings)
9x19mm pistols give more magazine capacity, for less weight.
Carry four fully loaded 13 round Glock magazines in .45 ACP, and carry four fully loaded 17 round Glock magazines in 9x19mm and tell me which was lighter.
9x19mm is easier to use in a suppressor capable pistol, due to better subsonic loadings, and better suppressor options.
Though AAC, and Osprey both make great options in .45 ACP.
9x19mm is a standard NATO round, so it will ALWAYS be available somewhere.
These are the reasons I was driven to carry 9x19mm, and invest in it.
M&P45. For the same reasons everyone else stated. My has the Apex trigger kit and night sights. Excellent trigger, accurate, reliable.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Alaskapopo
04-11-13, 13:34
I do like the fact I can get the M&P with the thumb safety. It feels very similar to a 1911. Would make a change over fairly easy. Currently it is against policy to run a pistol mounted light...:mad: I don't have to go with M&P45, I just haven't shot the M&P40. I've read that the M&P40 is a nice pistol, it's just I prefer .45. But if I go with .40, it might as well be the department issue.
Does the Grip Force actually help out he grip angle?
Pat,
What other reasons did you go from a .45 to a 9mm, other than the up keep and capacity? Why not a higher capacity .45? Thanks.
I am a believer is shot placement over caliber. With good ammo the difference between the 9mm and .45 are minuscule. I have carried a Glock 21 for 6 years when I was forced to and hated the grip on that pistol. With Glocks the 9mm models had the most reliability at least in the past. The 9mm has less recoil and is easier to shoot fast and accurately. Plus did I mention capacity. I carry my mags with extensions that give me 22 rounds in the gun. I used to not be a big 9mm fan but I am now it took a while for me to actually look at the data and realize that caliber is not nearly as important as I used to think.
Pat
I give the M&P45 an edge but shoot both and make your ow decision.
Devildawg2531
04-19-13, 20:34
[QUOTE=tpd223;1608059]
That the M&P .40s are proving more reliable and durable than the Glocks in .40 would be another consideration for me.
QUOTE]
Tpd223 where is the source that is showing that M&P 40's are proving more reliable and more durable than Glocks in .40? Is this a comparison vs Gen 4 Glock 40's? I would love to read the testing and comparison that determined the M&P's more reliable and durable. Please show the data / your source. Very interested as I just acquired a new Gen 4 G22.
Red falcon
04-19-13, 23:33
OP,
Switching from a 1911 to a glock might be troublesome due to the change in grip angle. I suggest you go with the M&P for .45 OR HK P30 in .40.
How about an Hk45? Better sight radius (In most cases), better reliability, 10 round capacity.
Hk mags are well known for lasting a long time since they don't over fill them like most manufacturers. You could carry Cocked & locked just like your 1911 and the transition would be minimal.
My M&P45 was busted out, and not very accurate compared to the Hk45. The Frame (dust cover/nose area) actually started to bend & deform after around 8k rounds. We replaced the mags twice in the couple years we had it.
I can't speak to Glocks because I've never owned one of their .45's. Love the 26, & 34 though.
You're going to be out a considerable amount more but I think the trade off is well worth it.
If you're dead set on 9mm, the P30L S is one heck of a pistol. (15rnds) The slides a bit light for a .40s&w if you ask me but I don't see many people complaining online about them. My P30L in 9mm is my primary trainer & carry. I'll probably never move to another pistol again.
Red falcon
04-19-13, 23:42
How about an Hk45? Better sight radius (In most cases), better reliability, 10 round capacity.
Hk mags are well known for lasting a long time since they don't over fill them like most manufacturers. You could carry Cocked & locked just like your 1911 and the transition would be minimal.
My M&P45 was busted out, and not very accurate compared to the Hk45. The Frame (dust cover/nose area) actually started to bend & deform after around 8k rounds. We replaced the mags twice in the couple years we had it.
I can't speak to Glocks because I've never owned one of their .45's. Love the 26, & 34 though.
You're going to be out a considerable amount more but I think the trade off is well worth it.
The G21 feels like a brick haha.. Imo the HK USP .45 feels much better.
been carrying a 1911 for the last 4 years myself. Recently purchased an M&P .45 with the thumb safety and installed the FSS trigger system. It mimics the 1911 pretty well, and the 10 round mags work better then the 1911 10 round mags. I shoot the M&P about the same as the 1911 but much better then the issued glock I have. I am still thinking about just getting a sirt trainer and also dry firing more and just going back to the glock. more rounds less recoil and it sure as hell weighs a lot less.
Between the two you gave I would go with the M&P but that is because I detest the .40 S&W round. If you could go 9mm the 17 might be a bit better, at least the guy in the article below thinks so.
http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
Concur with everything tpd223 wrote above.
I carried a 1911 from 1986 to until the end of 2010. In 2011 I carried an M&P45 and found it nearly as accurate as a custom 1911 and as reliable as a 9 mm Glock--great pistol. For a variety of reasons, I decided to switch to 9 mm and carried a 9 mm Glock in 2012, but definitely missed having a manual safety. Now I am carrying an M&P9 w/ambi-safety and could not be happier; I'd also be OK using an M&P40 or M&P45 w/ambi safety, but definitely prefer the 9 mm these days.
In the last decade or so, ammo engineers have produced a superb generation of 9 mm projectiles that offer penetration in the ideal range and that are capable of good performance after common intermediate barriers. As many agencies are discovering, modern robust expanding, barrier blind 9 mm ammunition is performing on par with larger caliber handgun loads, but offers substantial fiscal and training benefits. In test after test, most officers demonstrate a higher qualification score when shooting 9 mm compared to other common service calibers. Smaller statured officers and those with small hands tend to shoot better with 9 mm. Service pistols tend to be more durable in 9 mm than those in .357 Sig and .40 S&W. In a time of fiscal austerity, 9 mm ammunition is certainly less expensive. For most LE duties, there are a lot of advantages in carrying a 9 mm: easy to shoot--especially one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, lots of bullets immediately on tap. (When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a .45 Auto 1911). In the near future it is likely that many LE agencies will shift back to 9 mm given the benefits noted above.
Hogsgunwild
04-20-13, 09:17
Another 9MM convert here. Still love the .45s but carry the 9s and ditched the .40s. I am chiming in here to bring up another shootout that I read about in a gun rag while killing time at an airport. This shootout really made me think, like the Skokie one did.
Officer chasing a gang-banger on foot in a San Diego neighborhood. Officer catches up to suspect in a driveway and suspect turns around firing a Sig 220. Within about 15 feet or less as I recall, the officer then opens up with his Glock 21. Time slows way down and both go to slide lock. I forget if the officer took any rounds that did much to him but he put the suspect down. At least one of his final rounds found the suspect's head. Suspect tries to crawl and officer finishes him off after reloading.
When interviewed later, there were two big changes that the officer made to his philosophy / future game-plan. He found a more effective duty ammo. He also stated that he wished that he had gone for head shots much earlier in the shootout.
After reading this article, in my mind, it was another huge benefit to have a 9MM if you believe in head shots. Quicker follow-up shots with more ammo for more attempts.
Sorry for this being a bit off of topic but I felt that it was pertinent.
In the near future it is likely that many LE agencies will shift back to 9 mm given the benefits noted above.
According to some manufacturer reps, agency turnovers into 9mms are on the rise, as are requests for 9mm T&E guns and demo visits. The same is coming from ammo folks, who are seeing more agency orders of 9mm.
My data... 10-15% increase in shooter performance right away, with 10-20% decrease in costs, all with nothing more with the caliber switch. That's an easy sell to CLEOs and program managers, unless they have emotional attachments.
I went 9mm late last year, and the dominos are falling around me. If the shooter is willing to listen, it usually only takes a little range time to finish the sale.
S. Galbraith
04-20-13, 10:28
According to some manufacturer reps, agency turnovers into 9mms are on the rise, as are requests for 9mm T&E guns and demo visits. The same is coming from ammo folks, who are seeing more agency orders of 9mm.
My data... 10-15% increase in shooter performance right away, with 10-20% decrease in costs, all with nothing more with the caliber switch. That's an easy sell to CLEOs and program managers, unless they have emotional attachments.
I went 9mm late last year, and the dominos are falling around me. If the shooter is willing to listen, it usually only takes a little range time to finish the sale.
9mms have been the most popular LE caliber since the 1990s. This has always been the case. When agencies do switch to another caliber, each transitional period lasts approximatley a decade, give or take a few years. Agencies will go from 9mm to something larger, back to 9mm, and then back to the larger caliber again.....etc, etc. The same cycle occured with revolver calibers pre 1990s. It didn't happen as often, because the list of viable revolver service calibers is much smaller due to the exponential size and weight differences as you increase caliber size in a revolver. Larger agencies tend to stick with a single caliber for logistical reasons, and then stick with that caliber much longer than smaller agencies. We started off with 9mm Sigs in the early 1990s(FBI P228s that they didn't want anymore), and then opened up the option for officers to use .45acp Sigs, and then .40S&W Sigs. Right now we are .40S&W heavy with our officers at about 50%, with about 40% being 9mm guns, and 10% being .45acp guns. We've already been notified that our long term projection with the DOI is to be primarily .40S&W, with .45acp as an option. Our qualifications scores have been steadily improving throughout the last couple of decades, mostly due to improved training techniques regardless of the caliber used.
There is nothing nicer to shoot than a fine 1911. That being said the plastic guns are the way to go!! 9mm ! Even though a near miss with a 45 acp is devastating :o
While I also love 1911's and have several, my preferred duty weapon over the past 16 years or so has been a polymer framed pistol of some type, primarily Glocks until recently. I also jumped on the 40 bandwagon in the 90's when it was gaining popularity in LE and carried it for a long time.
About a year or so ago, I went to a 9mm and so did many of my fellow officers both at my agency and surrounding ones. When working with folks at the range I harp on shot placement above all else. Doesn't matter what your shooting if you can't hit your target. The 40, 45ACP, or 9mm will all do their job if the shooters does theirs.
TXPO
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