View Full Version : A Trip To Cuba, A New Rap About It And The Continued Disgrace Of The Presidency
As many have heard a societally worthless rapper known as "Jay Z" went to Cuba because he wanted to prove that he knows our joke of a president so well that he could actually do it, then he and his equally worthless egocentric wife did just that.
The public found out and one of the president's most die hard supporters Wasserman-Schultz began to receive pressure from her constituents, specifically Cuban immigrants, as to how this could happen. The administration referred Wasserman-Schultz to talk with the Treasury Dept, as only they can authorize such trips. Obviously an insult to her to say the least.
Now today a new rap song is produced emphasizing the presidents personal role in the trip, one of which he himself admits could lead to his impeachment. You have to hear it to believe it.
"The rapper boasted at length about the visit, suggesting Obama was involved.
"I done turned Havana into Atlanta," he rapped. "Boy from the hood, but got White House clearance."
He continued: "Politicians never did s--- for me except lie to me, distort history, wanna give me jail time and a fine. Fine, let me commit a real crime. ... Obama said, 'Chill you gonna get me impeached.' You don't need this s--- anyway, chill with me on the beach.'"
The track resulted in a bizarre scene at Thursday's White House briefing, as a reporter read aloud the lyrics to Carney. Jay-Z and Beyonce are both Obama supporters."
That man has destroyed the significance and meaning of being president. We have no leader as we have come to know them in our lives. To each and every one of you morons who voted Paul, reap what you personally helped sow. This country is doomed and our president accompanied by his henchman are 100% responsible.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/11/white-house-denies-jay-z-rap-claim-about-cuba-visit/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/11/carney_on_jay-zs_explicit_song_about_cuba_trip_the_white_house_has_nothing_to_do_with_it.html
Who is Paul and when did we vote for him???
Moose-Knuckle
04-11-13, 16:33
Not really shocked by this as Jay-Z and Barry are both card carrying members of The Boulé. Doing favors for fellow members is just one benefit of membership.
As many have heard a societally worthless rapper known as "Jay Z" went to Cuba because he wanted to prove that he knows our joke of a president so well that he could actually do it, then he and his equally worthless egocentric wife did just that.
One does not need to know the prez in order to go to Cuba - lots of people are doing it. I almost went this year. I really don't see what the big deal is.
http://www.backroads.com/trips/ACUQ/?utm_term=Mar&utm_content=Slide1&utm_campaign=ACUQLink
http://www.ietravel.com/node/6690
http://www.grandcirclefoundation.org/cuba/13day-itinerary-cuba-music-culture-and-the-roots-of-revolution.aspx
http://www.oattravel.com/General/Landing-Pages/2013/GCF-Cuba-People-to-People-Programs.aspx
http://www.travcoa.com/why-travcoa/cuba-2013
And there are plenty of other companies offering it also.
he was also rockin' a shirt with the Butcher of La Cabana in some other pics.
Moose-Knuckle
04-11-13, 16:58
he was also rockin' a shirt with the Butcher of La Cabana in some other pics.
Standard attire for douche bag elitist "entertainers", well that and the Mao handbag.
To each and every one of you morons who didn't vote for Paul, reap what you personally helped sow.
It cuts both ways...
ETA - I give two rips about Cuba and think the whole embargo thing's silly, accomplishes nothing, and should probably be done away with. However, dickhead and his banshee shouldn't have free reign to go island hopping with Obama's tacit permission while the embargo's in place.
It cuts both ways...
ETA - I give two rips about Cuba and think the whole embargo thing's silly, accomplishes nothing, and should probably be done away with. However, dickhead and his banshee shouldn't have free reign to go island hopping with Obama's tacit permission while the embargo's in place.
Jay the carnie Carney keeps referencing Treasury in his rebuttals, lets get the jackwagon who signed off on it to testify under oath :D
One does not need to know the prez in order to go to Cuba - lots of people are doing it. I almost went this year. I really don't see what the big deal is.
http://www.backroads.com/trips/ACUQ/?utm_term=Mar&utm_content=Slide1&utm_campaign=ACUQLink
http://www.ietravel.com/node/6690
http://www.grandcirclefoundation.org/cuba/13day-itinerary-cuba-music-culture-and-the-roots-of-revolution.aspx
http://www.oattravel.com/General/Landing-Pages/2013/GCF-Cuba-People-to-People-Programs.aspx
http://www.travcoa.com/why-travcoa/cuba-2013
And there are plenty of other companies offering it also.
While I'm no expert in the matter I do understand the new travel regulations to an extent. As far as the legitimacy of the trip, which is supposed to be firmly established, why would we be seeing this if it wasn't a blatant favor? On top of that, we're also blatantly softening our stance against our communist neighbor under guess who's watch?
U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Weston said Tuesday she’d like to know more about the recent Cuba visit by mega-entertainers Beyoncé and Jay-Z...
“I’m absolutely uncomfortable with the way, and concerned about, not just Jay-Z and Beyoncé but some of the travel, the 'people to people' travel, that has been occurring in Cuba, has resulted,” Wasserman Schultz said in a brief interview Tuesday with the Sun Sentinel.
“I would be interested to know what type of people to people qualifying activity they did during their trip."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-04-09/news/sfl-wasserman-schultz-beyonce-jay-z-cuba-20130409_1_jay-z-cuba-debbie-wasserman-schultz-trip
As far as the legitimacy of the trip, which is supposed to be firmly established, why would we be seeing this if it wasn't a blatant favor?
One does not need a favor from the prez to go there. The people to people trips are (currently) legal but most people don't know about them so they are making a big deal about it. I don't know how this couple traveled, but all they needed to do was sign up with any of the many tour companies offering these trips. BFD!
It cuts both ways...
Come on Mike, look at where we are today. This is ultra-serious shit. I have no hard data to show that libertarian votes actually placed Obama in office, but I know they helped a lot and that's a travesty born as a result of selfishness and stubbornness.
This because everyone knew better but they were going to go by the book no matter how much damage it did. Now, possibly as a direct result, we have four more years of this train wreck and his agenda-filled administration to look forward to.
Cripes man a ****ing thug is parading as an unauthorized but fully enabled ambassador and then fearlessly topped it off by throwing it in the face of the American public via a profanity laced rap. There is no good side to this story.
Come on Mike, look at where we are today. This is ultra-serious shit. I have no hard data to show that libertarian votes actually placed Obama in office, but I know they helped a lot and that's a travesty born as a result of selfishness and stubbornness.
For what it's worth I voted mainstream R in this last election. Nevada is a D state so I had to try to offset the entitlement wingnuts. However, I do like Rand Paul a lot and hope he runs in 2016.
Honestly I don't think there's too much difference between the R's and D's anymore.
Belmont31R
04-11-13, 18:45
The embargo is stupid and you can still go there. If I had the time and money I'd go for the cigars and rum. Most of their food and medical stuff is imported from the US (we're actually their biggest source of imports) which is exempt from the embargo.
You can go to China, Russia and Vietnam but somehow Cuba has this stupid embargo still being imposed on them.
One does not need a favor from the prez to go there. The people to people trips are (currently) legal but most people don't know about them so they are making a big deal about it. I don't know how this couple traveled, but all they needed to do was sign up with any of the many tour companies offering these trips. BFD!
You want to overlook the big picture and disagree for the sake of doing so have at it. We all know it was a bogus trip set up as a political favor for all of the wrong reasons, but if that doesn't matter to you, especially considering the rap lyrics and the fact that one of Obama's biggest surrogates is calling for an investigation then so be it.
And yes, sure she may be tempted to appease her base for show. However her public scrutiny is creating some problems for Obama at a time when he has lots of other negative things to deal with. Therefore I highly doubt it's a ploy on her part.
Belmont31R
04-11-13, 18:51
Come on Mike, look at where we are today. This is ultra-serious shit. I have no hard data to show that libertarian votes actually placed Obama in office, but I know they helped a lot and that's a travesty born as a result of selfishness and stubbornness.
This because everyone knew better but they were going to go by the book no matter how much damage it did. Now, possibly as a direct result, we have four more years of this train wreck and his agenda-filled administration to look forward to.
Cripes man a ****ing thug is parading as an unauthorized but fully enabled ambassador and then fearlessly topped it off by throwing it in the face of the American public via a profanity laced rap. There is no good side to this story.
Even if you added EVERY libertarian party vote (mainly Johnson at 3mil) Romney would have still lost. Romney got less votes than McCain who got less votes than Bush. Romney losing had nothing to do with libertarians not voting for him.
And before you go around blaming us for your party's losing streak maybe take a look at yourselves and reevaluate the war on the right from the mainline GOP. Not just libertarians but it was a conservative purge from House leadership positions with the new Congress, the GOP changing the rules at the Convention, and other asshattery.
I'm not sure why you think our votes are owed to your party when all you guys do is blame us for shit and talk about our people worse than you will a Democrat.
We all know it was a bogus trip set up as a political favor for all of the wrong reasons,.....
Since you apparently know all of the details of their trip, please provide same to us as to why they needed a favor at all when many other US citizens are making these readily available commercial trips without needing a favor.
Also, the details of the actual favor would be appreciated as well. How is the way they travelled and what they did any different from what is readily available to the rest of us?
Also, the details of the actual favor would be appreciated as well. How is the way they travelled and what they did any different from what is readily available to the rest of us?
You want to play games so be it. I'll answer your question and then I will expect you to do the honorable thing and answer mine.
What was the favor? While I don't know the specifics, I also don't have to know how much a bulldozer weighs to know that it's heavy. The obvious conclusion would be a personal favor return for substantial donations. But do tell us, what is your assumption so we can better understand your overt dissent to the public concern.
Now to my question, this in response to "How is the way they traveled and what they did any different from what is readily available to the rest of us".
If this is such an extremely easy question to answer then please explain to us why it is that, again, one of Obama's staunchest supporters is, after being deflected by the white house she so adamantly supported, asking for clarification as to how the trip was approved. You tell us why, if this is so commonplace, the presidents ally has turned on him publicly.
Please.
Even if you added EVERY libertarian party vote (mainly Johnson at 3mil) Romney would have still lost. Romney got less votes than McCain who got less votes than Bush. Romney losing had nothing to do with libertarians not voting for him.
Obama also got fewer votes the second time than the first time and according to the Wikipedia entries for the 2008 and 2012 elections, Romney actually got approximately 1mil more votes than McCain (and Obama got fewer than he did in 2008).
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Belmont31R
04-11-13, 19:47
Obama also got fewer votes the second time than the first time and according to the Wikipedia entries for the 2008 and 2012 elections, Romney actually got approximately 1mil more votes than McCain (and Obama got fewer than he did in 2008).
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Hmm must have changed from when the election first came out with absentee ballots and such.
Anyways either way all the 3rd party votes combined being added to Romney still wouldn't have even come close to changing the election. Johnson got less than 1% of the vote.
Five_Point_Five_Six
04-11-13, 19:55
"I gotz 99 prolemz but goin to Cuba ain't one..."
"I gotz 99 prolemz but goin to Cuba ain't one..."
Normally isn't one of mine either. I'll retract the Paul voter comment because most of you are great, smart people with whom I have much in common with. And today one of my dogs vomited blood and had bad diarrhea before I took her to the hospital so mentally I'm off.
Fact is like many I'm just feeling more and more uncomfortable with our direction each day and want better for all of us. And even more importantly those that will come after us. You add all this stuff up together and it's wrong.
Wrong as in the wrong people are in power and the wrong people are calling the shots. The wrong precedents are being set and vigorously maintained, our compass is broken. Anyway been a long day so think of the situation what you will.
brushy bill
04-11-13, 20:53
To each and every one of you morons who voted Paul, reap what you personally helped sow.
Well friend, I agree with a lot of what you posted, but this last part...not so much.
See, I believed that "throwing your vote away" garbage for awhile. But no more. When you have 13 NRA A Rated Senators (mostly Republican) voting to stop the boycott on gun control and jumping into bed with the anti-gun camp, I can't see the wisdom in voting for someone who really isn't part of the solution, only perpetuation of the problem. Also, the RINOs are abandoning their base to become more like the left...more modern don't you know. Unless we come up with an alternative quick, there really isn't enough difference to bother. Starting to see this as a "staged option".
I retracted the Paul comment Brushy, no offense intended. Pure frustration plain and simple.
brushy bill
04-11-13, 21:16
I retracted the Paul comment Brushy, no offense intended. Pure frustration plain and simple.
Sorry. Didn't see that. Disregard.
Hmm must have changed from when the election first came out with absentee ballots and such.
Anyways either way all the 3rd party votes combined being added to Romney still wouldn't have even come close to changing the election. Johnson got less than 1% of the vote.
I don't disagree that those votes would have tilted the balance most likely, but it is not as simple as the total vote count totals nationwide. You'd have to look at each of the swing states that were close, and see how close they were and if the votes for the Libertarian in that state would have played a role or not. Most likely not enough. Just wanted to point out that the overall vote count is kind of irrelevant.
(and since I believe that fraud played a role in at least some states, it probably doesn't matter anyway)
Oh yeah, Romney had more electoral votes than McCain as well. Significantly more. Obviously not enough.
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Five_Point_Five_Six
04-12-13, 06:17
Normally isn't one of mine either. I'll retract the Paul voter comment because most of you are great, smart people with whom I have much in common with. And today one of my dogs vomited blood and had bad diarrhea before I took her to the hospital so mentally I'm off.
Fact is like many I'm just feeling more and more uncomfortable with our direction each day and want better for all of us. And even more importantly those that will come after us. You add all this stuff up together and it's wrong.
Wrong as in the wrong people are in power and the wrong people are calling the shots. The wrong precedents are being set and vigorously maintained, our compass is broken. Anyway been a long day so think of the situation what you will.
I was just making a really lame Jay Z rap lyric reference.
What was the favor? While I don't know the specifics, I also don't have to know how much a bulldozer weighs to know that it's heavy. The obvious conclusion would be a personal favor return for substantial donations.
In other words, you are guessing.
How many times do I need to point out to you that if you want to go on a person to person trip to Cuba you do not need a favor from the prez to do so? So please explain why a favor was needed if it in fact was granted?
Now to my question, this in response to "How is the way they traveled and what they did any different from what is readily available to the rest of us". If this is such an extremely easy question to answer then please explain to us why it is that, again, one of Obama's staunchest supporters is, after being deflected by the white house she so adamantly supported, asking for clarification as to how the trip was approved. You tell us why, if this is so commonplace, the presidents ally has turned on him publicly.
Perhaps she is as uninformed as are other people, and doesn't know these trips are readily available to anyone with the coin to pay for them and no favor from the prez is needed. I don't hold her in high regard anyway and pay no attention to what she says.
Did you not even look at the links I provided to the many travel companies conducting these trips? Did you even Google "person to person trips to Cuba" to see all the listings? And if you did, doesn't that look like they are readily available to you?
I am not saying a favor did not happen - I don't know if it did or did not, and neither do you. You are guessing. Just because you want it to be doesn't make it so.
But if it did, I, too would like to know why when such trips are so readily available without a favor. It really seems strange to me that one would expose themselves to the intense criticism a favor would garner when a favor is not needed to go in the first place.
Why is this even a topic of discussion??
As a US citizen, ANY US citizen, you can get to Cuba a number of ways. You can get there via Mexico, Canada, or any other country. You can get there via a direct flight from Miami, as long as you meet certain criteria, such as business in Cuba...think professors, researchers, ect. I was unaware of P2P trips. There are also cruises out of other countries besides US.
If the Pretender in Chief wanted to see his equally idiot friends off on their trip, then who the f*ck cares? He likes to be seen as a pop culture icon just as much as Jay-Z does, so it doesn't surprise me in the least if he did have a part of this.
I mean seriously, even if he pulled some strings and got them on one of those direct flights from Miami, what does it really matter? We just had gun legislation get pushed through the senate yesterday and we're making a mountain out of a mole hill out of this?? Come on man.
my understanding of your links below is a people to people trip has a set/required agenda, it is NOT a get off the plane and go have fun as a tourist.
did our two asshats do the P2P ?
One does not need to know the prez in order to go to Cuba - lots of people are doing it. I almost went this year. I really don't see what the big deal is.
http://www.backroads.com/trips/ACUQ/?utm_term=Mar&utm_content=Slide1&utm_campaign=ACUQLink
http://www.ietravel.com/node/6690
http://www.grandcirclefoundation.org/cuba/13day-itinerary-cuba-music-culture-and-the-roots-of-revolution.aspx
http://www.oattravel.com/General/Landing-Pages/2013/GCF-Cuba-People-to-People-Programs.aspx
http://www.travcoa.com/why-travcoa/cuba-2013
And there are plenty of other companies offering it also.
Belmont31R
04-12-13, 08:18
my understanding of your links below is a people to people trip has a set/required agenda, it is NOT a get off the plane and go have fun as a tourist.
did our two asshats do the P2P ?
As mentioned you can just fly to Mexico and get on a plane to Cuba without any BS. Lot's of people from the rest of the world go there like any other place. We're the only ones stuck with this stupid shit, and I don't care how people from the US get there. Shouldn't be an embargo in the first place.
"I gotz 99 prolemz but goin to Cuba ain't one..."
True dat!
Why are we at war with Cuba again?
The quickest way to crush the current Communist govt is to send American tourists to Cuba. Cell phones, the internet, and cash money tends to end these sorts of regimes.
As mentioned you can just fly to Mexico and get on a plane to Cuba without any BS. Lot's of people from the rest of the world go there like any other place. We're the only ones stuck with this stupid shit, and I don't care how people from the US get there. Shouldn't be an embargo in the first place.
Completely agree. The embargo accomplishes absolutely nothing. If we can have commerce with countries like China and Russia, then why is there still an embargo with a country stuck in the 40's and a decrepit leader who I believe is now dead?
The only thing that the embargo accomplishes is keeping the Cuban people in a stagnate state. Why do we keep them in that state when we go half way around the world to "free the oppressed" via military operations? We wouldn't even need mil influence in Cuba to help the people's situation there.
To each and every one of you morons who voted Paul, reap what you personally helped sow. This country is doomed and our president accompanied by his henchman are 100% responsible.
A vote for Paul was a vote for Liberty. Mittens didn't run on Liberty. I am pretty sure he doesn't even know how to spell the word. If Mittens was selling Liberty he probably would have gotten more votes.
The radio talk show host/drug addict/golfer Rush Limbaugh made an excellent observation, 'The question is not can America survive Obama, it is can America survive a nation of people who voted for Obama.'
As Romney pointed out, the problem lies not with Ron Paul, but rather, with the 47% of the people who get a govt check and the corporation who are people (my friend) who both demand govt support. Those of us who just want Liberty and to be left alone are simply stuck on this ship of fools.
did our two asshats do the P2P ?
That is my point - nobody posting in this thread knows the details of how they travelled there. The bashers are simple jumping to the conclusion they want. And has been said by myself and others, theyre are lots of ways to get to Cuba without a favor from the prez.
I understand exactly what it is that some of you are saying. As stated yesterday was a bad day around here and so my tone was probably somewhat negative. And to be honest I was unaware that travel restrictions to Cuba had relaxed to the extent that they have been as of today.
But while we have bigger fish to fry it is still another disturbing trend we are seeing come from the top. It demonstrates to impressionable blacks that rapping can not only make them money, it can also lead to a personal relationship with the president and all the perks that come with it. Jay-Z is a punk thug and should not be endorsed or glorified by our so called leader. It sets a terrible example for those that we are counting on to run our futures.
And while some of you may oppose the embargo Cuba is still a communist nation hostile to the United States. Somehow Obama being the one to ease the restrictions doesn't seem all that shocking to me, but the audacity of some garbage rapper being doled out presidential favors only to boast about it via profanities without fear of reprisal sums up a lot of what is now very wrong with this country.
..........., but the audacity of some garbage rapper being doled out presidential favors only to boast about it via profanities without fear of reprisal sums up a lot of what is now very wrong with this country.
You still don't know it is true he got a favor from the prez. Are you getting your news from rap songs now?
And while some of you may oppose the embargo Cuba is still a communist nation hostile to the United States. Somehow Obama being the one to ease the restrictions doesn't seem all that shocking to me.
Let me ask you something: ever studied the interplay between economic openness and political freedom? I guarantee Obama has.
The economic sphere pulls levers in the political sphere; they are intertwined an inextricable. You want to see Cuba's political environment trend toward openness and democracy over the long term? The single best way to do this is to trade with it and ease restrictions.
Political Economy 101.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdOEFJGYk9c
^ "It's a song, Donovan." That about sums it up.
Let me ask you something: ever studied the interplay between economic openness and political freedom? I guarantee Obama has.
The economic sphere pulls levers in the political sphere; they are intertwined an inextricable. You want to see Cuba's political environment trend toward openness and democracy over the long term? The single best way to do this is to trade with it and ease restrictions.
Political Economy 101.
Thank you. Very true.
Not to mention I had to laugh a little at the "hostile to the United States" bit. I mean, seriously, if we can trade with China and Russia, then there's no reason for us not to enjoy some Cohibas and fine Cuban rum!
You still don't know it is true he got a favor from the prez. Are you getting your news from rap songs now?
Sounds like I should apologize for offending a fan of Jay-Z. Maybe tomorrow.
Meantime keep pretending that the story wasn't picked up on most MSM networks and that I personally am the source of any and all controversy regarding the matter because you need to be right.
Why is this even a topic of discussion??
As a US citizen, ANY US citizen, you can get to Cuba a number of ways. You can get there via Mexico, Canada, or any other country. You can get there via a direct flight from Miami, as long as you meet certain criteria, such as business in Cuba...think professors, researchers, ect. I was unaware of P2P trips. There are also cruises out of other countries besides US.
I used to do a lot of work in Mexico, for months at a time, and always considered hopping a flight over. Never did it but seriously thought about it.
Completely agree. The embargo accomplishes absolutely nothing. If we can have commerce with countries like China and Russia, then why is there still an embargo with a country stuck in the 40's and a decrepit leader who I believe is now dead?
The only thing that the embargo accomplishes is keeping the Cuban people in a stagnate state. Why do we keep them in that state when we go half way around the world to "free the oppressed" via military operations? We wouldn't even need mil influence in Cuba to help the people's situation there.
I couldn't agree more. End the stupidity.
Sounds like I should apologize for offending a fan of Jay-Z.
I can't stand the guy.
But that is no reason to put up with inaccurate information or getting your information from a rap song. And you are the one pushing it here, not MSNBC.
when a US citizen enters cuba from another country other than USA the Cuban Customs will stamp a blank piece of paper instead of your passport. its still illegal to just "go to cuba"
I couldn't agree more. End the stupidity.
Some would suggest it is the Cubans who need to "end the stupidity". They're a communist nation lost on the wrong side if the planet. Their people are so poor and oppressed they risk life and limb to get here on craft we would't take bass fishing.
And yes we trade with China but we do not trust them by any means. Their government routinely hacks us and their military is gearing up for something down the line. A great many believe we will go to war with them eventually, the relationship is fair at very best.
Cuba is far smaller and less powerful so we brush them off. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be watching our backs with them either, as was clarified by the Cuban missile crisis. It just means that for now they pose no real threat anymore. Still I'd also say we should lift the embargo since it no longer serves any meaningful purpose.
Still I'd also say we should lift the embargo since it no longer serves any meaningful purpose.
Didn't you just get done criticizing Obama for moving in this direction?
I can't stand the guy.
But that is no reason to put up with inaccurate information or getting your information from a rap song. And you are the one pushing it here, not MSNBC.
It's common for news stories to be discussed here and if you think your impressing me with your utter lack of substance you're wrong. The story and it's significance is well verified, just reporting the facts ma'm.
Do me a favor and put me on your ignore list.
Didn't you just get done criticizing Obama for moving in this direction?
Lifting the embargo is somewhat different from establishing better diplomatic relations, although if warranted by actions on their part I would like to see this as well. Take China for example, we have a working but cautious relationship with them. Same should be true with Cuba.
By the way I should clarify that personally I could see Obama taking advantage of an opportunity to get too close too soon, going beyond trade. We know he sympathizes to some extent with socialism and probably doesn't hate communists the way most American's do.
Some would suggest it is the Cubans who need to "end the stupidity". They're a communist nation lost on the wrong side if the planet. Their people are so poor and oppressed they risk life and limb to get here on craft we would't take bass fishing.
Our embargo accomplishes nothing positive for anyone. Free trade would empower the citizens of Cuba and help them to break free of the old regime. If we were to end the embargo Cuba would become an economic power house due to the influx of American dollars from tourists who want to go sip rum on their beautiful beaches while puffing on a cigar.
Given that the US has flourishing relations with Communist China, Laos, and Vietnam, or that it supported the Mubarak dictatorship in Egypt that was far more brutal than the Castro regime, boycotting Cuba because it remains Marxist has become a bad, old joke.
Some would suggest it is the Cubans who need to "end the stupidity". They're a communist nation lost on the wrong side if the planet. Their people are so poor and oppressed they risk life and limb to get here on craft we would't take bass fishing. [1]
And yes we trade with China but we do not trust them by any means. Their government routinely hacks us and their military is gearing up for something down the line. A great many believe we will go to war with them eventually, the relationship is fair at very best. [2]
Cuba is far smaller and less powerful so we brush them off. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be watching our backs with them either, as was clarified by the Cuban missile crisis. It just means that for now they pose no real threat anymore. Still I'd also say we should lift the embargo since it no longer serves any meaningful purpose.[3]
[1] Can you please explain what you mean by the bolded portion? And who is "Some"? You?
[2] Our relationship with China is like two boxers who don't really like each other, yet train with each other in the same gym and only play nice because they are the biggest baddest on the block and benefit from each other in that way. I wouldn't even call the relationship "fair". More like, I can't wait for the other guy to blink so I can knock him out! (more on China's side of it than the US's)
[3] You are basically saying what I said above, yet contradicting yourself thinking that you're making some kind of point. I really think you don't know what you're talking about. :alcoholic:
Our embargo accomplishes nothing positive for anyone. Free trade would empower the citizens of Cuba and help them to break free of the old regime.
Agreed, however as you know the embargo is not just a penalty for their past deeds and displayed hostilities. It is also a penalty for their type of government and it's oppressive ways. And it does hurt them financially as intended, just that as you say overall it doesn't seem to be worth it at this point, especially if we can get the political tides to shift via peaceful means.
Still relinquishing a firm stance would probably be a bad idea because now we accept them as is and even enable them.
I really think you don't know what you're talking about. :alcoholic:
Oh no!! You mean all this time I should have been listening to you?
This is terrible. As a direct result of your helpful commentary I'm going to rethink my entire life. Thank-you so very much, you truly are an Ironman.
You kids have fun now and thanks for the positive participation.
Oh no!! You mean all this time I should have been listening to you?
This is terrible. As a direct result of your helpful commentary I'm going to rethink my entire life. Thank-you so very much, you truly are an Ironman.
You kids have fun now and thanks for the positive participation.
Your immaturity is astounding for someone your age.
Agreed, however as you know the embargo is not just a penalty for their past deeds and displayed hostilities. It is also a penalty for their type of government and it's oppressive ways. And it does hurt them financially as intended, just that as you say overall it doesn't seem to be worth it at this point, especially if we can get the political tides to shift via peaceful means.
Still relinquishing a firm stance would probably be a bad idea because now we accept them as is and even enable them.
We have open trade with numerous countries whose governments are oppressive. China, Vietnam, Laos, Egypt and on and on. Our own government could be seen as more oppressive, in many ways, and we have the world's highest prison population per country. The amount of laws we have that will put a person in prison is staggering.
The only people left hurting financially in Cuba are the average citizens. It's obviously an ineffective and archaic tactic that doesn't work otherwise it wouldn't have been in place for the past 50 years. The only thing an embargo accomplishes is fueling anti-U.S. sentiment in South America. I say this after working and living south of the border for quite a few years.
We have open trade with numerous countries whose governments are oppressive. China, Vietnam, Laos, Egypt and on and on. Our own government could be seen as more oppressive, in many ways, and we have the world's highest prison population per country. The amount of laws we have that will put a person in prison is staggering.
The only people left hurting financially in Cuba are the average citizens. It's obviously an ineffective and archaic tactic that doesn't work otherwise it wouldn't have been in place for the past 50 years. The only thing an embargo accomplishes is fueling anti-U.S. sentiment in South America. I say this after working and living south of the border for quite a few years.
Irish, it's really no use brother. See his post above. That's really all you need to know about him.
Our embargo accomplishes nothing positive for anyone. Free trade would empower the citizens of Cuba and help them to break free of the old regime. If we were to end the embargo Cuba would become an economic power house due to the influx of American dollars from tourists who want to go sip rum on their beautiful beaches while puffing on a cigar.
Given that the US has flourishing relations with Communist China, Laos, and Vietnam, or that it supported the Mubarak dictatorship in Egypt that was far more brutal than the Castro regime, boycotting Cuba because it remains Marxist has become a bad, old joke.
Well said!
Shit happened under Bush...aka Republican purity
Stock markets completely failed, seeing new lows in many categories.
Got into two wars, one which was totally sold on false premises, and no end was in sight to either.
Bin Laden and many of his posse chilled out for 8yrs. enjoying the good life.
Shit happened under Obama.....aka The Devil man
Stock markets have set all time records.
We've gotten out of the two wars by in large....and officially the one with those evil non existent WMDs.
Bin Laden and most of his posse got dealt dirt naps.
Jay-Z went to Cuba under Obama's watch.....then wrote a freaking rap song about it.
I agree, I can't look past that rap song either :D
Shit happened under Bush...aka Republican purity
Stock markets completely failed, seeing new lows in many categories.
Got into two wars, one which was totally sold on false premises, and no end was in sight to either.
Bin Laden and many of his posse chilled out for 8yrs. enjoying the good life.
Shit happened under Obama.....aka The Devil man
Stock markets have set all time records.
We've gotten out of the two wars by in large....and officially the one with those evil non existent WMDs.
Bin Laden and most of his posse got dealt dirt naps.
Jay-Z went to Cuba under Obama's watch.....then wrote a freaking rap song about it.
I agree, I can't look past that rap song either :D
You realize that the government and the stock market shouldn't be intertwined yet due to the housing collapse, bailouts of the banks, the auto industry, etc. they can manipulate the market with ease. As an example, in March, the .Gov sold $621 MIL worth of GM stock (http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2013/04/gm_stock_update_government_sol.html).
We're not out of Iraq, Afghanistan, et al. so no the wars are not over in any sense of the word.
Bin Laden getting smoked had nothing to do with who was in the White House at the time and everything to do with the timing of intelligence gathering. Giving praise to Obama for OBL getting ventilated, during his time in office, is disingenuous and giving him far too much credit.
IDGAF what anybody says, authorizing the Abbottabad raid was a ballsy move that many politicians would not have made given the extreme risk of failure and diplomatic issues.
Give both credit and criticism where they're due. What's disingenuous is pretending that someone one doesn't like can't have done anything right, ever.
Do you also realize that by all reports, Obama was fully ready to allow US forces to smokecheck the Pakistani Military if they engaged the assault force instead of having them surrender and negotiate their release? How many other politicians would have gone that route?
IDGAF what anybody says, authorizing the Abbottabad raid was a ballsy move that many politicians would not have made given the extreme risk of failure and diplomatic issues.
Give both credit and criticism where they're due. What's disingenuous is pretending that someone one doesn't like can't have done anything right, ever.
Do you also realize that by all reports, Obama was fully ready to allow US forces to smokecheck the Pakistani Military if they engaged the assault force instead of having them surrender and negotiate their release? How many other politicians would have gone that route?
I've read quite a few reports on Obama's refusal to act on the situation. It's also been reported that he didn't know the raid was happening until the SEAL team had already crossed the Pakistan border. Many credible reports state that Leon Panetta was the shot caller on the raid but I can't say for certain.
I've read quite a few reports on Obama's refusal to act on the situation. It's also been reported that he didn't know the raid was happening until the SEAL team had already crossed the Pakistan border. Many credible reports state that Leon Panetta was the shot caller on the raid but I can't say for certain.
I'd be interested in reading those reports, if you have links. That contradicts most accounts. I'm extremely skeptical that US ground forces would cross into a sovereign country on such a high profile mission without POTUS approval.
Magic_Salad0892
04-12-13, 13:29
[2] Our relationship with China is like two boxers who don't really like each other, yet train with each other in the same gym and only play nice because they are the biggest baddest on the block and benefit from each other in that way. I wouldn't even call the relationship "fair". More like, I can't wait for the other guy to blink so I can knock him out! (more on China's side of it than the US's)
Good luck, China.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/18/china-growth-debt-currency-yuan-climate-markets-economy-myths_4.html
http://www.economist.com/node/13888069?story_id=13888069
280 MILLION people over the age of 65 within the next 25 years, and because of their "one child" rule thing, they won't have much of a generation to replace them.
Your immaturity is astounding for someone your age.
I came back just to briefly address you, then I need to get some work done sport.
Would you like to share with the others our personal discussion weeks ago? You know it's interesting because something I would define as immature is following someone around you don't like and deliberately attempting to sabotage their discussions. Most here will either make one comment or none at all and move on, yet you will harp on the trivial because you don't like me specifically and feel the need to take a shot if you think there is an opportunity.
Yet when you start a thread I ignore it, and I do that because I don't really care about anything you say and certainly have nothing to prove to you. In accordance with being an adult it seems that is the mature course of action, right?
Now once again, I relayed a widely publicized news story and then offered an opinion. Except for one other wanna-be wiseguy I can and will discuss meaningful points rationally and fairly with anyone here if they wish to offer them.
If you want someone to take up personal arguments with for the amusement of others and to bolster your own ego then I suggest you sign up at TOS, unless of course you're already an active member. Either way it's better to express your hostilities with me personally rather than continue with your now trademark disruptions.
IDGAF what anybody says, authorizing the Abbottabad raid was a ballsy move that many politicians would not have made given the extreme risk of failure and diplomatic issues.
Give both credit and criticism where they're due. What's disingenuous is pretending that someone one doesn't like can't have done anything right, ever.
I absolutely agree with you here by the way. It's almost like some force took over Obama's body and authorized the mission and then left, only returning to authorize a drone strike here and there.
QuickStrike
04-12-13, 13:37
Big whoop Jay Z. One of my co-workers went there and always pesters me into coming with him.
Just got to fly to mexico and go from there...
I'd be interested in reading those reports, if you have links. That contradicts most accounts. I'm extremely skeptical that US ground forces would cross into a sovereign country on such a high profile mission without POTUS approval.
Here's one (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/04/26/Get-bin-laden-memo-CYA) but there are others than contradict it. Honestly, I don't care all that much, but I'm not giving Obama credit for the hard work of the CIA, SEALs and everyone else involved in making shit happen. Even if he gave the final OK he didn't do a damn thing himself. And I'm not impressed when the White House releases "situation room" photos acting like they're watching the raid go down live when they didn't have a clue as to what was happening on the ground.
However, I do agree with your "ballsy decision" suggestion and would hope that anyone the American people vote into office would have the same temerity, regardless of political affiliation.
Magic_Salad0892
04-12-13, 13:43
IDGAF what anybody says, authorizing the Abbottabad raid was a ballsy move that many politicians would not have made given the extreme risk of failure and diplomatic issues.
Give both credit and criticism where they're due. What's disingenuous is pretending that someone one doesn't like can't have done anything right, ever.
Do you also realize that by all reports, Obama was fully ready to allow US forces to smokecheck the Pakistani Military if they engaged the assault force instead of having them surrender and negotiate their release? How many other politicians would have gone that route?
Sorry, a0cake. But I'm gonna have to stop you right there. The CIA Director at the time, (Leon something. I forget his name) was the guy who gave the orders to return fire at any Pakistani Military personnel if they fired on American soldiers, and Obama didn't even know about the raid until they were over the boarder.
Magic_Salad0892
04-12-13, 13:46
I'd be interested in reading those reports, if you have links. That contradicts most accounts. I'm extremely skeptical that US ground forces would cross into a sovereign country on such a high profile mission without POTUS approval.
I didn't even realize somebody else had already posted what I said.
Anyways; when it comes to US forces going across the boarder into a sovereign country on a high risk op without POTUS approval:
Look at the Afghan Soviet jihad. It was officially illegal for Americans to cross the boarder into Afghanistan, but it happened all the time according to intelligence reports. (Specifically Howard Hart, did it all the time, when establishing relations with Abdul Haq.)
I came back just to briefly address you, then I need to get some work done sport.
Would you like to share with the others our personal discussion weeks ago? You know it's interesting because something I would define as immature is following someone around you don't like and deliberately attempting to sabotage their discussions. Most here will either make one comment or none at all and move on, yet you will harp on the trivial because you don't like me specifically and feel the need to take a shot if you think there is an opportunity.
Yet when you start a thread I ignore it, and I do that because I don't really care about anything you say and certainly have nothing to prove to you. In accordance with being an adult it seems that is the mature course of action, right?
Now once again, I relayed a widely publicized news story and then offered an opinion. Except for one other wanna-be wiseguy I can and will discuss meaningful points rationally and fairly with anyone here if they wish to offer them.
If you want someone to take up personal arguments with for the amusement of others and to bolster your own ego then I suggest you sign up at TOS, unless of course you're already an active member. Either way it's better to express your hostilities with me personally rather than continue with your now trademark disruptions.
You may want to review my post history and see that I do not follow you around nor have I commented on one thing of yours since our "personal discussion", but you already knew that....and I'm not sure why you would like me to share that discussion with everyone else :confused:
As for "taking a shot" and commencing my "trademark disruptions", sorry, but when I see misinformation being spread, I will call you out on it. You don't know a damn thing about this subject (and many others) yet you continually throw out your garbage and backpedal when people call you out on it. Rational discussion isn't even in your vocab.
Sorry, a0cake. But I'm gonna have to stop you right there. The CIA Director at the time, (Leon something. I forget his name) was the guy who gave the orders to return fire at any Pakistani Military personnel if they fired on American soldiers, and Obama didn't even know about the raid until they were over the boarder.
I'll look into it further but these statements you guys are making are in opposition to the preponderance of evidence.
Magic, Aocake...Wasn't it Leon Pinette or whatever his name. I am remembering bits and pieces.
Is it your guys' contention, then, that McRaven was lying when he said:
"At the end of the day, make no mistake about it, it was the president of the United States that shouldered the burden for this operation, that made the hard decisions, that was instrumental in the planning process, because I pitched every plan to him"?
I understand that Generals are politicians in some sense. Anecdotes like that do not constitute evidence. When you say that Obama didn't know about the raid until they were inside the Pak border, you need to provide evidence. It is well known that Obama was considering options, including an air strike from a manned A/C or even a drone strike, but ended up calling for an assault force. If I'm to disbelieve that and accept your assertion that Obama didn't even know about it until it was underway, I need real evidence -- not anecdotes or hit pieces.
From Sense and Nonsense about Obama and Osama
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/29/opinion/bergen-obama-osama-books
Obama's orders
Rather than being indecisive about the raid, Obama ordered the operation against the advice of his defense secretary, who had started working for Nixon's National Security Council when Obama was only 13, and against the advice of Vice President Joe Biden, who was elected to the Senate when Obama was 11. Also advocating a course of action other than the raid was Gen. James "Hoss" Cartwright, Obama's then-No. 2 military adviser.
And rather than scaling back the scope of the bin Laden raid, in fact, it was Obama who ordered more choppers to go on the operation, according to Adm. Mike Mullen, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of the Staff, who told me, "Obama is the one that put in the Chinook-47s. He is the one that said, 'There is not enough backup.' "
Instead of dithering, Obama was deeply involved in a decision that, after all, had the potential to destroy his presidency if the operation had turned into a fiasco similar to the Iran hostage rescue debacle of 1980. The possibility of a similar debacle was a serious concern of Gates. And Obama was solely responsible for the decision to give the "go" for the operation despite the fact that there was no proof that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad, only a circumstantial case that he was.
According to Paula Broadwell's recent, authoritative biography of Petraeus, "All In," Petraeus found out about the Abbottabad raid only three days before it happened and had no role in its planning or execution. The idea that Petraeus considered ordering some kind of unilateral air raid on the bin Laden compound, which sits in the center of a city in the middle of Pakistan, is simply preposterous.
There is no evidence that an ISI colonel visited the CIA station in Islamabad to tip off the CIA about bin Laden. And by all accounts, there was no tacit approval from the Pakistani military brass for the bin Laden raid, nor were they given a heads-up about the operation. An ISI official e-mailed me to say that Miniter's claims "are as absurd as they can get."
In fact, the Pakistanis were completely taken by surprise by the raid and angered that they were not given any notice of the operation whatsoever, according to Cameron Munter, then the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan.
Miniter can't even seem to get basic facts right about the bin Laden operation. Obama did not take almost two years of dithering to make the decision to go after bin Laden. The first intelligence that bin Laden might be living in Abbottabad only surfaced in August 2010, around nine months before Obama ordered the SEAL raid that killed him.
Miniter e-mailed CNN to say his account of all these events is accurate, explaining, "I wanted to bring forward details from the military and intelligence communities that have not been part of the official White House narrative. I believe that reporters have relied too much on White House officials and Pakistani government officials and marginalized those who were unavailable for or unwilling to comment in the hours and days after the operation, but who performed vital technical tasks that ensured its success."
Maybe not lying but I think that sometimes these decisions on humint, sat imagery, etc.. May be made those lower in the pecking order just my thinking. No proof. But will start research and see.
Maybe not lying but I think that sometimes these decisions on humint, sat imagery, etc.. May be made those lower in the pecking order just my thinking. No proof. But will start research and see.
Oh yeah, definitely. No argument there. But there are people in this thread arguing that Obama didn't even know about the operation until they had crossed the border.
Man somtimes I wonder if he knows what country he's in.
But there are people in this thread arguing that Obama didn't even know about the operation until they had crossed the border.
Not a chance in hell.
Magic_Salad0892
04-12-13, 16:14
Oh yeah, definitely. No argument there. But there are people in this thread arguing that Obama didn't even know about the operation until they had crossed the border.
To be honest, I'd never even heard that Obama DID know about it before the Pak boarder until I'd read this thread.
A vote for Paul was a vote for Liberty. Mittens didn't run on Liberty. I am pretty sure he doesn't even know how to spell the word. If Mittens was selling Liberty he probably would have gotten more votes.
The radio talk show host/drug addict/golfer Rush Limbaugh made an excellent observation, 'The question is not can America survive Obama, it is can America survive a nation of people who voted for Obama.'
As Romney pointed out, the problem lies not with Ron Paul, but rather, with the 47% of the people who get a govt check and the corporation who are people (my friend) who both demand govt support. Those of us who just want Liberty and to be left alone are simply stuck on this ship of fools.
The most powerful and influential of the 47% are transnational corporations - many who have been "outsourcing" good jobs to Developing Nations...
Yeah...
You may want to review my post history and see that I do not follow you around nor have I commented on one thing of yours since our "personal discussion", but you already knew that....and I'm not sure why you would like me to share that discussion with everyone else :confused:
As for "taking a shot" and commencing my "trademark disruptions", sorry, but when I see misinformation being spread, I will call you out on it. You don't know a damn thing about this subject (and many others) yet you continually throw out your garbage and backpedal when people call you out on it. Rational discussion isn't even in your vocab.
Agreed!
Amazing, ain't it?
RancidSumo
04-13-13, 02:20
I don't give a shit about them going to Cuba other than I think I should be able to book a direct flight from DIA to Havana whenever I want. Embargoes are retarded and accomplish nothing. If the US would knock off this whole embargo/trade sanction bullshit maybe we would have better relations with all the countries that are causing all the problems.
IDGAF what anybody says, authorizing the Abbottabad raid was a ballsy move that many politicians would not have made given the extreme risk of failure and diplomatic issues.
If the raid had been a failure, do you think there would have been a press release?
Do you think this is the first time ever we have done a raid at a location OBL was thought to be hiding?
If the raid had been a failure, do you think there would have been a press release?
Do you think this is the first time ever we have done a raid at a location OBL was thought to be hiding?
Yes, if the raid was a failure, news of it obviously would have gotten out. It happened deep inside Pakistan not far from a Pak-Mil facility. Success or failure there was no keeping this quiet -- birds loitering, etc.
No, it is obviously not the first time we have done a raid at a location where we thought OBL might be hiding but were not sure. Surely you can understand how the details and nature of the Abbottabad Raid made it high-risk (including politically). Pakistan is a supposed ally and we didn't give them prior warning before invading their airspace (rightly) and killing people in a facility in a military town.
I think you're being willfully obtuse about the stakes of the raid because you don't like Obama. Why can't you people just admit that it was a good (and risky) call? Doesn't mean you have to marry him.
Since this thread's about Cuba... How long do we keep Guantanamo open? How long do we "indefinitely detain" the presumed bad guys there?
Sounds like things are getting a little tense... http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CB_GUANTANAMO_HUNGER_STRIKE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-04-13-13-12-49
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