View Full Version : Installation of Centurion Arms C4 Rail
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 17:08
Just looking to get a little help regarding the installation of the C4 Rail from Centurion Arms.
The direction says to remove the Gas tube which I've done. It then says to cut the hand guard cap sitting right behind the FSP. Here is where I'm stuck. On my BCM upper, it appears as if there is no possible way to cut this cap off without removing the FSP. If I do attempt to cut it, I will be cutting into the FSP which I want to try and avoid.
The writer of these directions specifically said that you shouldn't remove the FSP unless you have too. Does anyone have any idea how I should go about getting this hand guard cap off without moving the FSP?
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 17:19
By the way, I have the C4 Rail without the FSP cut out. It is the 9" version. Do I even need to remove this cap or can I install the rail up against it?
skijunkie55
04-11-13, 17:22
http://youtu.be/XL12MQGQrPc
Try this
Listen to the Youtube chick rather than someone who has installed several dozens if not more of these. That makes sense. :rolleyes:. Her video has you removing the FSB which is what I and others advise against.
http://youtu.be/XL12MQGQrPc
Try this
skijunkie55
04-11-13, 17:27
Listen to the Youtube chick rather than someone who has installed several dozens if not more of these. That makes sense. :rolleyes:. Her video has you removing the FSB which is what I and others advise against.
Well if your instructional video popped up first I would have posted :D
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 17:32
Here are some pictures. I just don't see how I can get any type of cutters between that cap and the FSP. Should I bend the cap forward with some pliers or something?
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130411_182756_zpsbd5d1af0.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/jrwingate6/media/20130411_182756_zpsbd5d1af0.jpg.html)
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130411_182747_zpsa6a36846.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/jrwingate6/media/20130411_182747_zpsa6a36846.jpg.html)
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130411_182840_zps4c609562.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/jrwingate6/media/20130411_182840_zps4c609562.jpg.html)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg6stZBPzLU
It's much easier to remove the front sight base than to try and bend and rip at the handguard cap.
Here are some pictures. I just don't see how I can get any type of cutters between that cap and the FSP. Should I bend the cap forward with some pliers or something?
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130411_182756_zpsbd5d1af0.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/jrwingate6/media/20130411_182756_zpsbd5d1af0.jpg.html)
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130411_182747_zpsa6a36846.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/jrwingate6/media/20130411_182747_zpsa6a36846.jpg.html)
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130411_182840_zps4c609562.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/jrwingate6/media/20130411_182840_zps4c609562.jpg.html)
I fought with the handguard cap for about 20 mins because it was listed in the directions on one of the first installs I did.
In contrast, it took me about a minute to drift out the FSB pins, and 30 seconds to snip the handguard cap with tin snips (see the above video link).
There is no need to rip the FSB off the gun, but moving it forward makes it much easier to get in there with some snips.
Mine shredded to pieces leaving a remaining rim right at the fsb where I couldn't get at it (I suck I know). Had to pull the fsb. Eventually I couldn't even dremel down the fsb well enough (guard is thin) ran out of free project time and handed it to a smith. Yes, I said before I suck. I did give it a good shot though.
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 22:22
Mine shredded to pieces leaving a remaining rim right at the fsb where I couldn't get at it (I suck I know). Had to pull the fsb. Eventually I couldn't even dremel down the fsb well enough (guard is thin) ran out of free project time and handed it to a smith. Yes, I said before I suck. I did give it a good shot though.
No, actually you don't suck and personally, I think the directions should be rewritten. I too ran into the same exact issue. I would snip and cut but would ultimately be stuck with a metal rim between the barrel and front sight post. I even put a cut in my barrel in the process while trying to Dremel it. I don't doubt that it's possible on some handguard csp/FSP combos but with what BCM is using, it's down right impossible. I knew I should have just picked out a rail system that didn't require the removal of that Damn cap. I guess I'll just take it to a gunsmith and have him do it.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
No, actually you don't suck and personally, I think the directions should be rewritten. I too ran into the same exact issue. I would snip and cut but would ultimately be stuck with a metal rim between the barrel and front sight post. I even put a cut in my barrel in the process while trying to Dremel it. I don't doubt that it's possible on some handguard csp/FSP combos but with what BCM is using, it's down right impossible. I knew I should have just picked out a rail system that didn't require the removal of that Damn cap. I guess I'll just take it to a gunsmith and have him do it.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Have you watched the video I linked?
If you're comfortable cutting on the cap with a dremel, I would think you might be comfortable drifting out the front sight pins and snipping the handguard cap with some tin snip.
Might save you a trip to the smith is all.
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 22:42
Have you watched the video I linked?
If you're comfortable cutting on the cap with a dremel, I would think you might be comfortable drifting out the front sight pins and snipping the handguard cap with some tin snip.
Might save you a trip to the smith is all.
Man, I tried my hardest to get those Damn pins out. The only thing I managed to do was mess up the finish on my front sight post. Now, I also have to go to the store and get some black Rustolium to touch up the marred up FSP around the pins.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Man, I tried my hardest to get those Damn pins out. The only thing I managed to do was mess up the finish on my front sight post. Now, I also have to go to the store and get some black Rustolium to touch up the marred up FSP around the pins.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
That sucks. You were tapping on the pins from the LH side so they would exit on the RH side?
I haven't met a set of pins that wouldn't come out with a 5lb hammer and a steel punch. The barrel/ FSP needs to be well supported though when you are whacking on those pins.
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 22:51
That sucks. You were tapping on the pins from the LH side so they would exit on the RH side?
I haven't met a set of pins that wouldn't come out with a 5lb hammer and a steel punch. The barrel/ FSP needs to be well supported though when you are whacking on those pins.
Yea, I was using a big hammer and a steal pin. I guess I just can't support it enough. I don't have anything to really support it on. I know a local gun shop that will probably do it for $20 bucks or something. I just need them to loosen that FSP up to snip that cap off and then put the FSP back on.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Jake Bauer
04-11-13, 22:57
your C4 came with instructions? Mine didnt come with anything but a cardboard tube around it. I followed the youtube video posted above. Worked great.
Obscenejesster
04-11-13, 23:04
your C4 came with instructions? Mine didnt come with anything but a cardboard tube around it. I followed the youtube video posted above. Worked great.
Nah, it didn't come with instructions. I went to their website and looked at them.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Maybe at some point people will get what I am saying. You can also take another route which is remove the barrel and pull the slip ring assembly off. I have done several BCM uppers with handguard caps and it was not terribly difficult. YMMV.
Man, I tried my hardest to get those Damn pins out. The only thing I managed to do was mess up the finish on my front sight post. Now, I also have to go to the store and get some black Rustolium to touch up the marred up FSP around the pins.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Obscenejesster
04-12-13, 11:10
Maybe at some point people will get what I am saying. You can also take another route which is remove the barrel and pull the slip ring assembly off. I have done several BCM uppers with handguard caps and it was not terribly difficult. YMMV.
If the slip ring is the same thing as the handgaurd cap, it would be impossible to remove by pulling it off after removing the barrel. I should also add that this is the light weight barrel in case that has anything to do with it. The handgaurd cap is fit into a groove between the FSP and barrel which makes it impossible to get something down in there and cut it off. Whatever you use to cut will just run into the barrel and or FSP.
I meant in the event you needed better access. If you take chisel with a sharp thin point and insert it between the cap and FSB and pry it away. Then you can make the cuts and rip it off.
If the slip ring is the same thing as the handgaurd cap, it would be impossible to remove by pulling it off after removing the barrel. I should also add that this is the light weight barrel in case that has anything to do with it. The handgaurd cap is fit into a groove between the FSP and barrel which makes it impossible to get something down in there and cut it off. Whatever you use to cut will just run into the barrel and or FSP.
Mine shredded to pieces leaving a remaining rim right at the fsb where I couldn't get at it (I suck I know). Had to pull the fsb. Eventually I couldn't even dremel down the fsb well enough (guard is thin) ran out of free project time and handed it to a smith. Yes, I said before I suck. I did give it a good shot though.
On the left is what happened trying to cut and tear it away with the FSB still secured.
On the right is the cap that I cut with snips after I move the FSB forward.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/handguardcaps_zpsa3e65afd.jpg
After sweating and swearing at it for 20+ minutes trying to tear it apart, I'll be moving the FSB forward from now on.
Obscenejesster
04-12-13, 11:52
On the left is what happened trying to cut and tear it away with the FSB still secured.
On the right is the cap that I cut with snips after I move the FSB forward.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/handguardcaps_zpsa3e65afd.jpg
After sweating and swearing at it for 20+ minutes trying to tear it apart, I'll be moving the FSB forward from now on.
LOL. Mine is in more pieces than that.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
My takeaway is that the rail cannot be installed over the handguard cap (circle or triangle). Yes?
I used a combination of dremel cutting disc, big wire cutters and some good old metal fatiguing to get most of it off. Painted the rest of it black with my Birchwood Casey pen. I used the FSP rail which completely covered the rest of that cap up though, so I can understand why you want all of it off if you aren't.
StainlessSteelRat
03-05-14, 12:03
Just cut it on opposite sides with a straight tin snipper and fatigue it off, mine came off no sweat & way easier than removing FSB. Do remove gas tube though. Love my Carbine cutout on the LMT D2000.
thopkins22
03-05-14, 12:12
My takeaway is that the rail cannot be installed over the handguard cap (circle or triangle). Yes?
Correct. The cap has to be removed. It is NOT impossible to do it without moving the FSB, but it is going to be a trying experience and you need to be careful to not let your frustration cause you to mar your barrel or FSB if you're concerned about that kind of thing...of course that can also be true about removing the pins BCM puts in with serious oomph.
At the end of the day, the Centurion rail is the best of it's kind in my opinion...but if you're not comfortable with the dremel and just ripping metal off with pliers you should consider the DD Omega.
Some of these testimonials on cap removal hardly sound easier than taking the FSB off. And you don't even need to remove the gas tube from the FSB in that case.
When I wrote the installation instructions I tried to be as concise and make it as easy as possible.
The best thing to do is to remove the gas tube, and then cut the cap at the gas tube hole. Then you can use wire snips and cut it down and pull it apart. If you have the Colt style with M203 cuts on the sides then you can cut it in both places and use a set of vise grips to twist it apart.
Just cut it on opposite sides with a straight tin snipper and fatigue it off, mine came off no sweat & way easier than removing FSB. Do remove gas tube though. Love my Carbine cutout on the LMT D2000.
Correct. The cap has to be removed. It is NOT impossible to do it without moving the FSB, but it is going to be a trying experience and you need to be careful to not let your frustration cause you to mar your barrel or FSB if you're concerned about that kind of thing...of course that can also be true about removing the pins BCM puts in with serious oomph.
At the end of the day, the Centurion rail is the best of it's kind in my opinion...but if you're not comfortable with the dremel and just ripping metal off with pliers you should consider the DD Omega.
Thank you for the clarification! BCM, good guess as that is what I am spec'ing this rail for. I've had my share of tough pins, so I hear ya there. Part of the reason why I'm looking at this rail is to avoid popping the pins by clamping on a quality rail that extends past my middy FSB (mid-length cutout).
thopkins22
03-05-14, 19:11
Thank you for the clarification! BCM, good guess as that is what I am spec'ing this rail for. I've had my share of tough pins, so I hear ya there. Part of the reason why I'm looking at this rail is to avoid popping the pins by clamping on a quality rail that extends past my middy FSB (mid-length cutout).
Great setup...I have one set up exactly the same way and believe it to be nearly ideal for what I want out of a 16" carbine without sacrificing my affection for real front sights. You'll be able to do it without pulling the FSB...it's just patience and time. Metal snips and a good pair of pliers or vice grips that the jaws won't slip or torque sideways is highly recommended. And patience. And maybe tape if you're anal about the finish. Eventually the metal jammed between the FSB and the shoulder WILL give up.
Good to know! Thanks again.
Berserkr556
03-09-14, 19:14
I installed one for a friend. Followed the Centurion instructions and didn't have one problem. I cut the delta ring and handguard cap right off without damaging the FSB or bbl. finish and this was my first time installing a C4. Nothing wrong with the instructions. Oh and I should mention it was a 16" BCM mid-length.
Arkansas Bob
03-09-14, 19:56
I have a couple of them. I cut the delta ring and removed the FSB. It was a 20 minute job start to finish.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/azahuvaj.jpg
I have a couple of them. I cut the delta ring and removed the FSB. It was a 20 minute job start to finish.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/azahuvaj.jpg
Do you prefer the Cut out or the 9" fit flush. Is the cut out worth the extra cost?
tango-papa
03-31-14, 12:52
When I wrote the installation instructions I tried to be as concise and make it as easy as possible.
The best thing to do is to remove the gas tube, and then cut the cap at the gas tube hole. Then you can use wire snips and cut it down and pull it apart. If you have the Colt style with M203 cuts on the sides then you can cut it in both places and use a set of vise grips to twist it apart.
Just picked up a used C4 rail - e-mail sent.
tp
Intransigent
03-31-14, 18:13
Just to throw my 2 cents in here. I had no problem whatsoever punching out the gas tube roll pin, sliding the gas tube to the rear, rotating and cutting off the hg cap at the gas tube hole. I spec'd this rail specifically because I did not want to fool with the gas block pins. Jeez, some of you guys are making this sound like work. :)
I put my C4 Carbine Cutout Rail on the other day. Removing the hand guard cap was the hardest part of the job. But it was still fairly simple. I used tin snips, my Dremel, a flat head screw driver and pliers. I didn't remove the gas tube. I cut to it then split the cap at that point and it came off with some good pulling and twisting. Mine didn't come with any instructions.
NYH1.
SanDiegoLMT
04-05-14, 18:34
JDM has installed one of these for me and I have done one myself. I really like the quality of these rails. I currently have a Daniel Defense rail and I prefer Centurian to the DD. I like the anti rotation tabs, the fact that the Centurian doesnt chew up your hand and the fact that it's two piece. Most of my uppers are pinned/welded and it makes it much easier.
Arkansas Bob
04-05-14, 19:52
Do you prefer the Cut out or the 9" fit flush. Is the cut out worth the extra cost?
The cutout is necessary on a carbine IMO, I find the standard perfectly adequate on the midlength.
SanDiegoLMT
04-05-14, 19:56
The cutout is necessary on a carbine IMO, I find the standard perfectly adequate on the midlength.
I agree for on a carbine length setup. Gets the light or whatever else out of the way of where your hand should be.
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