View Full Version : why no love for the XCR-M?
pbr streetgang
04-14-13, 18:24
Aside from the fact that Alex Robinson has zero customer service skills, am I missing something? i have a few AR's in 7.62 (H&K MR308 and LMT MWS 308) as well as some other 7.62 semi-auto rifles (M14 SOCOM and M1A SOCOM), and so far I have been pretty impressed with the results of the XCR-M.
I see that there are lots of people here who love the SCAR17s, and after handling one recently, I would give the win to the XCR-M for controls and overall feel. Don't get me wrong, i would love to be able to own the SCAR 17s but they have been recently deemed prohibited in Canada, whereas the XCR-M is non-restricted (no paperwork or limitations on use).
Why is there no desire to own a U.S. developed/made rifle which has similiar characteristics to the SCAR17s?
anyways here is mine...
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af32/pbr-streetgang/E21031B0-E7A5-4E7E-86C5-723402EC40AD-301-0000001A07162EE2_zps45a77265.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/pbr-streetgang/media/E21031B0-E7A5-4E7E-86C5-723402EC40AD-301-0000001A07162EE2_zps45a77265.jpg.html)
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af32/pbr-streetgang/42C0EFA0-14CD-4285-AD25-98DC08BB48EA-301-00000019FFDFBB19_zps56a68300.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/pbr-streetgang/media/42C0EFA0-14CD-4285-AD25-98DC08BB48EA-301-00000019FFDFBB19_zps56a68300.jpg.html)
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af32/pbr-streetgang/91AA3356-18A2-4541-8E46-930CAF74D324-301-00000019F77C33FD_zps6cf97a22.jpg (http://s991.photobucket.com/user/pbr-streetgang/media/91AA3356-18A2-4541-8E46-930CAF74D324-301-00000019F77C33FD_zps6cf97a22.jpg.html)
Magic_Salad0892
04-14-13, 18:48
Partially because I really don't see anything that this does that a SCAR 17, or a KAC SR-25 ECC doesn't do.
Plus, they both have better ambi controls, and they come from companies that are guaranteed to be around for a long time.
What barrel length is that? That looks crazy long.
I'm sure part of it is longevity, with larger companies like FN vs a small boutique outfit which you never know is going to be around.
Looks like a neat design, but I think after overall weapon design / reliability / accuracy, the next most important thing is will a company stand behind their product with solid customer service. Seems like this Robinsin fellow isn't so easy to deal with in that regard.
pbr streetgang
04-14-13, 18:59
I'm sure part of it is longevity, with larger companies like FN vs a small boutique outfit which you never know is going to be around.
Looks like a neat design, but I think after overall weapon design / reliability / accuracy, the next most important thing is will a company stand behind their product with solid customer service. Seems like this Robinsin fellow isn't so easy to deal with in that regard.
it really is a shame that he is such an asshat to his customers... His design is solid and I'm sure if a bigger company ran with it, it would be a winner...
and to answer your question Magic Salad, it is 18.5 bbl (needs to be for non-restricted status.)
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-14-13, 19:03
Cost to much and I cant own it here
Barry in IN
04-14-13, 19:33
I don't have any love (or hate) for them because I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh. Not in a gunshop, or a class, or the club range, or anywhere else. I've heard a couple of people in classes say they own or owned one, but they weren't shooting them.
Might be a hell of a rifle, but I have no way to judge.
it really is a shame that he is such an asshat to his customers... His design is solid and I'm sure if a bigger company ran with it, it would be a winner...
That right there is the main reason for me. Why would i spend my hard earned money on a rifle that i know i will have no customer support for when i can purchase other proven rifles that are backed by exceptional companies?
it really is a shame that he is such an asshat to his customers... His design is solid and I'm sure if a bigger company ran with it, it would be a winner...
I guess it's a great example of times when a designer of a great product should get in business with someone who actually understands business!
Because those crappy CS experiences carry on and cost sales... And those cost cutting measures of not replacing broken / defective parts cost sales... And in the end its all about CS and advertising, not how great a product is... Although we'll all agree a certainly level of performance is required.
When it comes down to your specific example, SCAR 17 vs XCR-M, the SCARs negative attributes compared to the XCR-M (if there are any, but just for arguments sake) are completely offset by FNs success in developing the rifle for the US military, having it adopted by the US and other military's, FNs marketing, FNs responsiveness to problems with the rifles, and parts support (which is still not great, but it sounds like it would be even harder for the XCR)... And in the end, we know that FNs probability of staying in business is much higher than a small custom company... Which means SCAR owners can be confident of long term support, as well as the slow but sure development of aftermarket SCAR parts / accessories, etc.
I have never seen one anywhere. I like the looks of it. Looks heavy though.
I have never seen one anywhere. I like the looks of it. Looks heavy though.
+1, how about just a total lack of seeing them? It's hard to throw down good money on a rifle sight unseen that has a questionable customer service reputation.
SpankMonkey
04-14-13, 20:58
The simple answer is the owner. I was looking to purchase two rifles in 2003. The company would not provide me with what I wanted. It was a simple and easy problem to fix. Company did not care.
The result was I never spent a dime and never will with that company. Many people have had the same experience. Its a shame really, it seems like they make good rifles.
+1, how about just a total lack of seeing them? It's hard to throw down good money on a rifle sight unseen that has a questionable customer service reputation.
Yes. To be honest, I forgot they even existed. Much less see one in person...
S. Galbraith
04-14-13, 22:01
I had an XCR in 5.56 a while back. It was a great rifle, and I liked the design. I'd be willing to give the XCR-M a chance, but it's a sellers market right now.
Well, I'm about as close to a SME on the XCR as you are gonna get this side of either Kermit Zahm or Alex himself, but this is my opinion based on years of XCR ownership and thousands of round downrange in varied conditions.
I dont think it's lack of market penetration has anything to do with it's design. The XCR-M keeps up nicely in every category with the SCAR and the like, and the XCR-L just beats every other offering's design hands down as the epitome of modern design and modularity.
Problem lies with poor marketing, failure of the company to either A) Answer the phone and do what they say, and say what they can do or B) refer all customers to a network of dealers who will do A
Second thing is that the reputation they gained during a certain period will live on for a long time thru the internet rumour. It's the same mechanism that says that AR's are not reliable and AK's cant hit anything. Not based on current information in any way and not particularly true either.
I had one and it seemed like a fine weapon for the 500-600 rounds I was able to run thru it. I dont think the design was as simple as the -L but it was damned accurate and with the light barrel balanced VERY nicely and was NOT overly heavy. (the heavy barrel 18" was front heavy).
You know, if I could fix a couple things about RobArm it would be to get Alex to stick to designing guns, then get a proper PAID PROFESSIONAL marketer on board, then set up and exclusive dealer network to handle ALL the sales.
The guy has money and passion and some great ideas and that company aint going to disappear anytime soon, but it does need to be run better.
The guns are great tho and the company has made needed design changes and upgrades faster than any other gun company on the planet.
Guntrician
04-17-13, 20:32
Well, I'm about as close to a SME on the XCR as you are gonna get this side of either Kermit Zahm or Alex himself, but this is my opinion based on years of XCR ownership and thousands of round downrange in varied conditions.
I dont think it's lack of market penetration has anything to do with it's design. The XCR-M keeps up nicely in every category with the SCAR and the like, and the XCR-L just beats every other offering's design hands down as the epitome of modern design and modularity.
Problem lies with poor marketing, failure of the company to either A) Answer the phone and do what they say, and say what they can do or B) refer all customers to a network of dealers who will do A
Second thing is that the reputation they gained during a certain period will live on for a long time thru the internet rumour. It's the same mechanism that says that AR's are not reliable and AK's cant hit anything. Not based on current information in any way and not particularly true either.
I had one and it seemed like a fine weapon for the 500-600 rounds I was able to run thru it. I dont think the design was as simple as the -L but it was damned accurate and with the light barrel balanced VERY nicely and was NOT overly heavy. (the heavy barrel 18" was front heavy).
You know, if I could fix a couple things about RobArm it would be to get Alex to stick to designing guns, then get a proper PAID PROFESSIONAL marketer on board, then set up and exclusive dealer network to handle ALL the sales.
The guy has money and passion and some great ideas and that company aint going to disappear anytime soon, but it does need to be run better.
The guns are great tho and the company has made needed design changes and upgrades faster than any other gun company on the planet.
Jack-O summed it up accurately. I haven't touched the XCR-M yet but I've had an XCR-L for several years now. I bought it while waiting for the "Massada" (now ACR) and the SCAR to hit the market. In a way I wish I hadn't bought the XCR because it has been such a great rifle I lost interest in trying the SCAR 16 or ACR until both those rifles have their shortcomings addressed. (The SCARs reciprocating bolt and the ACRs weight, barrel profile, caliber options, etc.)
The biggest challenge was simply getting my XCR-L. Contacting RRA was a pain back then. When I ordered my rifle, I was told 2-4 weeks. Then nobody would pick up the phone or answer email. I finally got it around 12-14 weeks I think. Terra looked into it and got things moving. Only customer service I dealt with was part upgrades. I went straight through Terra so it was fast and painless. Too bad she's gone now.
Fast forward to now and the XCR-M. I wouldn't have a problem trying one. I'm confident it would be a fine rifle. I would go through a dealer for everything vs. dealing with RRA directly. RRA isn't going anywhere. It would be nice to see them expand. I do agree that Alex needs to stick to design and leave the marketing and CS to others with people skills. That company would take off.
At least with Robinson you don't have to worry about not being able to get parts if they go out of business. You won't be able to get any parts while they're still IN business.
XCR's are badly engineered and suffer from poor longevity. No relationship to world class firearms like the SCAR-H, or .308 LMT, Larue, HK, or KAC rifles. Some people of note who get SCAR-H's for free choose to privately purchase Larue PredatAR's and OBR's, that's called a CLUE.
Ask any SME how XCR's have performed in their classes. I don't even see anyone attempting to run them anymore.
How much were these when they came out? Pre-panic...
The single screw locking the barrel into the receiver always seemed like a design flaw. There seems to be no secondary measure to keep the barrel from launching down range should the barrel retaining screw loosen.
And I followed Robinson Armament since the debut of the M96. They apparently had poor customer service back then and it seems it has not changed with time. The discussions over on the Biggerhammer M96 forum were almost always vitriolic. I almost bought an m96 back around 1999, but after reading all of the terrible reviews about customer service I decided against it.
I think their designs show promise, but still need some refinement (ala the barrel retaining screw). In the future I suspect these rifles will be the more modern analog of the Holloway HAC-7.
Hell with it all.. Someone just needs to bringback the HAC 7. Of all my .308, the HAC is the best. Some much potential!
I think their designs show promise, but still need some refinement (ala the barrel retaining screw). In the future I suspect these rifles will be the more modern analog of the Holloway HAC-7.
Hell with it all.. Someone just needs to bringback the HAC 7. Of all my .308, the HAC is the best. Some much potential!
How about some photos, including field stripped?
The single screw locking the barrel into the receiver always seemed like a design flaw. There seems to be no secondary measure to keep the barrel from launching down range should the barrel retaining screw loosen.
I've failed to correctly torque the barrel screw one time then did a mag dump for the hell of it. accuracy went to hell but the barrel stayed there. heres why
-the threads are a locking type so the nut just doesnt spin out easily. it would be very very difficult to launch the barrel before you notices the barrel was way loose
-physics makes i kinda hard to send the barrel forward when loose
-the bolt headspaces on the barrel and extention so even with a loose barrel it will only fire if the bolt is locked into the barrel and the bolt has some play to move with the loose barrel
It's kind of a genius design actually. so much leeway to cover for problems.
I had a brief flirtation with an XCR. First off, Alex is a bigoted ass that is prone to tantrums that poorly represent himself and his company.
Secondly, I have had several XCRs in rifle classes and they typically don't work well. Core components are screwed in. Screws back out at inconvenient times. I've seen barrels shoot loose, gas blocks come off and internal parts break. Combined that with a completely proprietary system, with one source of spare parts... its just not sustainable. IMHO he should have made the XCR an upper that fit onto an existing AR lower. at least then you could replace some of the parts...
Don't get me started on 762x39 versions. God they sucked.
D
I like the XCR....but honestly rarely ever see them in shops in S. FL. Like once or twice ever...maybe.
Beyond that, I'd be happy to make room in my safe for one.
Cagemonkey
04-18-13, 18:48
Hell with it all.. Someone just needs to bringback the HAC 7. Of all my .308, the HAC is the best. Some much potential!
Old school shit. Early 80's. AR10 Waffle mags were cheap and available. You got pics?
No relationship to world class firearms like the SCAR-H, or .308 LMT, Larue, HK, or KAC rifles. Some people of note who get SCAR-H's for free choose to privately purchase Larue PredatAR's and OBR's, that's called a CLUE.
I am confused here. You first refer to the SCAR-H as a world class firearm but then mention that some people choose to buy something else rather than use one for free. Are you implying something negative about the SCAR? You seemed to just really make a quick switch from the XCR to SCAR and back again.
Secondly, I have had several XCRs in rifle classes and they typically don't work well. Core components are screwed in. Screws back out at inconvenient times. I've seen barrels shoot loose, gas blocks come off and internal parts break.
D
these are all primarily operator failures. the gun requires regular maintenance just like the AR needs lube. dont give it what it needs and it'll fail just like any other machine.
Instructors need to learn this system. the short course is "blue locktite all bolts/screws and torque correctly. If it fails... turn the gas up and check lube" Thats pretty much all there is different to the XCR.
as for the 762x39... it was a magazine issue really. I wouldnt buy one myself, and for the price of a conversion I can buy a whole AK with mags that work.
I asked Alex personally once why he didnt make the 762x39 just use the AK mags that actually worked, his response was that they didnt have a bolt hold open. That still baffles me.
Suwannee Tim
04-18-13, 21:17
I have an XCR in 6.8, great rifle. I wanted the stuff to convert it to 5.56 or 5.45, called, e-mailed, several times, no response. I don't do business with folks who don't return e-mails and calls. I would have bought another XCR-L or two and an XCR-M or two.
I am confused here. You first refer to the SCAR-H as a world class firearm but then mention that some people choose to buy something else rather than use one for free. Are you implying something negative about the SCAR? You seemed to just really make a quick switch from the XCR to SCAR and back again.
Just depends on what you're using the gun for. The Larue is better for longer range work. SCAR-H's are being used as sort of a marksman rifle. A 16'' or 18'' predatAR or OBR is going to be better in that role, as would an LMT WMS (all be it a rather heavy gun). Even FN is working on a dedicated marksman rifle, the MK 20.
Just depends on what you're using the gun for. The Larue is better for longer range work. SCAR-H's are being used as sort of a marksman rifle. A 16'' or 18'' predatAR or OBR is going to be better in that role, as would an LMT WMS (all be it a rather heavy gun). Even FN is working on a dedicated marksman rifle, the MK 20.
I know the differences between them. I was just a little confused by your prior post. It was a bit scatterbrain. I thought you were knocing the SCAR's quality, but apparently you were talking about the design purposes and intended uses of different rifles.
IMHO he should have made the XCR an upper that fit onto an existing AR lower. at least then you could replace some of the parts...
Seen the Faxon AKAR? I've been watching it, supposedly they're shipping. Honestly I don't know why we haven't seen more modular upper systems.
Just depends on what you're using the gun for. The Larue is better for longer range work. SCAR-H's are being used as sort of a marksman rifle. A 16'' or 18'' predatAR or OBR is going to be better in that role, as would an LMT WMS (all be it a rather heavy gun). Even FN is working on a dedicated marksman rifle, the MK 20.
Working on the MK20? It has already been unveiled, replacing SR-25s and seen operational service (or so I've heard it has replaced them in some units, working to find the source to back it up).
Yes, I'll take some picture later.
Old school shit. Early 80's. AR10 Waffle mags were cheap and available. You got pics?
Littlelebowski
04-19-13, 16:16
Working on the MK20? It has already been unveiled, replacing SR-25s and seen operational service.
Can you substantiate this statement? Where is it replacing SR25s?
twistedcomrade
04-20-13, 00:06
I had completely forgotten about the XCR, much less the XCR-M. If Robinson reads these fourms then take this post as a gauge of your failing marketing campaign.
Littlelebowski
04-20-13, 14:35
A quick perusal of XCRforum tells me all I need to know about Robinson Armament. Skim through and see for yourselves.
http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/8-robinson-armament
A quick perusal of XCRforum tells me all I need to know about Robinson Armament. Skim through and see for yourselves.
http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/8-robinson-armament
Wow! What a shame. Every nugget of temptation that I had to buy a Robinson rifle is now gone. The funny thing is that after shooting most of my guns once or twice, I don't shoot them much anymore because I'm on to the next one in my collection. However, I'm not even going to risk it on a low use rifle. I do appreciate all the warnings.
the XCR forum is filled with a group of very sad and unhappy people. wuite possibly one of the least beneficial forums ever and not moderated in any way nor is it affiliated with RA in any way. In fact I believe RA hates it so much they have boycotted it due to the trolls.
Best advice I can give on the XCR is that if you are even remotely interested in one stay away from dealing with the company directly and only go thru their main dealer Kermit Zahm. Let him do all the legwork for you, he gets dibs on most stuff anyway.
Can you substantiate this statement? Where is it replacing SR25s?
I'm looking for the source I remember, I'll edit my post to reflect the current lack of substantiation, but the source was credible.
Instructors need to learn this system. the short course is "blue locktite all bolts/screws and torque correctly. If it fails... turn the gas up and check lube" Thats pretty much all there is different to the XCR.
Learn a little used rifle?
Learn a little used rifle?
you have bested me with your logic. my hat is off to you sir.
Littlelebowski
04-21-13, 11:12
Best advice I can give on the XCR is that if you are even remotely interested in one stay away from dealing with the company directly and only go thru their main dealer Kermit Zahm. Let him do all the legwork for you, he gets dibs on most stuff anyway.
That's exactly what the people on that forum say. I looked around and found Alex astro turfing Sniper's Hide saying that amongst other things that 5.45 kits are shipping "now" and I believe he said that in '10 or '11. Now on XCRforum.com, people are still trying to get their 5.45 kits. So, pass for me. I understand that XCRforum might be full of malcontents but I'm seeing a pattern here.....
Littlelebowski
04-21-13, 11:15
I'm looking for the source I remember, I'll edit my post to reflect the current lack of substantiation, but the source was credible.
Understood as I have sources that I can't publicly cite either (not that I'm high speed, low drag!).
Understood as I have sources that I can't publicly cite either (not that I'm high speed, low drag!).
Well, I can't find the public source but the MK20 is well beyond the development stage and in use.
I'll update if I can find a public source that I can quote.
Regardless, I'll take an SR-25, SCAR-H of any variety (civie, MK17, or MK20) or Larue OBR well before an XCR... :D
As requested by JoshNC and CageMonkey
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1620633#post1620633
In regards to the HAC7, How about some photos, including field stripped?
Cagemonkey
04-22-13, 20:02
As requested by JoshNC and CageMonkey
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1620633#post1620633Thanks. That was awesome.
these are all primarily operator failures. the gun requires regular maintenance just like the AR needs lube. dont give it what it needs and it'll fail just like any other machine.
Instructors need to learn this system. the short course is "blue locktite all bolts/screws and torque correctly. If it fails... turn the gas up and check lube" Thats pretty much all there is different to the XCR.
as for the 762x39... it was a magazine issue really. I wouldnt buy one myself, and for the price of a conversion I can buy a whole AK with mags that work.
I asked Alex personally once why he didnt make the 762x39 just use the AK mags that actually worked, his response was that they didnt have a bolt hold open. That still baffles me.
Respectfully, its a maintenance issue because of poor design. Screws back out. Screws on critical components is just poor design. Locktite-ing stuff onto the gun is a mitigation, not a solution. So you have a rifle that works well, is an interesting design but a flawed implementation. When you combine its tendency to energetically disassemble itself with the complete inability to get parts in a reasonable amount of time, it become a maintenance/logistic night mare.
Contrary to what Robinson says about XCR "covering the earth" and being a revolutionary rifle, its basically a FAL/AK/AR munged together. Nothing wrong with that, but the implementation is poor, the company is even worse, and the owner takes the cake.
Respectfully, its a maintenance issue because of poor design. Screws back out. Screws on critical components is just poor design. Locktite-ing stuff onto the gun is a mitigation, not a solution. So you have a rifle that works well, is an interesting design but a flawed implementation. When you combine its tendency to energetically disassemble itself with the complete inability to get parts in a reasonable amount of time, it become a maintenance/logistic night mare.
Contrary to what Robinson says about XCR "covering the earth" and being a revolutionary rifle, its basically a FAL/AK/AR munged together. Nothing wrong with that, but the implementation is poor,
the company is even worse, and the owner takes the cake.
Well, we may have to agree to disagree on this, but I think your assertion that 3-4 screws needing locktite or proper torquing it a design flaw shows a lack of understanding of the requirements of modular designs. the fact that any part can be taken off any other rifle and used safely without adjustment or special guages and the fact that the entire weapon can be taken apart with a $10 folding hex wrench set provides significant advantage to the user. to my knowledge no other rifle or firearm in history could do that.
Understanding a designs needs are part of learning the system. every rifle need something different. I'd certainly never lube my AR like I do my AK.. it just wouldn't run.
Honestly if the biggest gripe one can come up with is the dislike of the recommendation that one locktites 3-4 screws... Then discussing anything further about it is a waste of time.
In all honesty, discussions about hardware as if they were critically important is really not a significant issue in my world. I'd rather discuss the software issues of the modern gunowner... LOTS more wrong there.
Well, we may have to agree to disagree on this, but I think your assertion that 3-4 screws needing locktite or proper torquing it a design flaw shows a lack of understanding of the requirements of modular designs. the fact that any part can be taken off any other rifle and used safely without adjustment or special guages and the fact that the entire weapon can be taken apart with a $10 folding hex wrench set provides significant advantage to the user. to my knowledge no other rifle or firearm in history could do that.
Understanding a designs needs are part of learning the system. every rifle need something different. I'd certainly never lube my AR like I do my AK.. it just wouldn't run.
Honestly if the biggest gripe one can come up with is the dislike of the recommendation that one locktites 3-4 screws... Then discussing anything further about it is a waste of time.
In all honesty, discussions about hardware as if they were critically important is really not a significant issue in my world. I'd rather discuss the software issues of the modern gunowner... LOTS more wrong there.
Love modular systems. I have two Augs. 3 barrels, and 3 stocks. I never have to lock tite something down to keep it from backing out. I'd also suggest that once you have locktited something, its really not that modular. Hardware is critically important when your gas block goes down range or the barrel shoots loose. Its also critically important when you can't get replacement parts.
As you say, we'll have to agree to disagree. Love your last sentence. Boy is that the truth.
I've had the XCR since 2005, and have never launched a gas block down range or shot a barrel off. Nor have I seen it. I heard of ONE guy who didnt put his gas dial in all the way and shot it off, but never even HEARD of the barrel shooting off. I dont think it's actually possible. the level of operator malfunction for either is VERY VERY high for that to happen. it really is on the order of gross negligence. and by "gross" I mean "deliberate and or willfully ignorant" of the operating instructions.
It's on the order of "shoving your muzzle into the mud and using the buttstock as a seat" negligent.
you know, I really dont care what an individual wants to shoot. it doesnt matter. I do feel strongly that any person hanging out a shingle as an "instructor" needs to have a REALLY good handle on the different hardware that students show up with to their classes. It shows poorly on an instructor when the best response to a malfunction is "it's a poor design" or "well the AR isnt very reliable" or "those AK's cant shoot past 200 yards". Especially when operators all over have proven the viability and reliability of the system. When I hear that kind of buck passing from an instructor it clearly indicates an amateur or a person who doesnt care enough about their craft to learn new things or keep up with the times. I stopped taking classes from those types a long time ago.
you know, I really dont care what an individual wants to shoot. it doesnt matter. I do feel strongly that any person hanging out a shingle as an "instructor" needs to have a REALLY good handle on the different hardware that students show up with to their classes. It shows poorly on an instructor when the best response to a malfunction is "it's a poor design" or "well the AR isnt very reliable" or "those AK's cant shoot past 200 yards". Especially when operators all over have proven the viability and reliability of the system. When I hear that kind of buck passing from an instructor it clearly indicates an amateur or a person who doesnt care enough about their craft to learn new things or keep up with the times. I stopped taking classes from those types a long time ago.
What types of instructors do you take classes from? Vickers? Pannone? Swan? Rogers? I'm sure one or more of the bigger guys in the training world has an opinion on the XCR as it pertains to performance in carbine courses.
I reviewed my posts. I don't think I ever said the barrel came off. I believe I said it was loose. IF I did, I misspoke. I have never seen a barrel come off. I have seen lots of issues with small parts that are screwed in backing out. I have seen students (and me) wait months for replacement parts. I have seen the owner go on juvenile rants about how is rifle will cover the earth... and criticizing anyone who would have the temerity to point out that critical parts should be pinned in place and not screwed in.
So why no love:
Proprietary system with lots of parts screwed in
Inability to get spare parts or barrels... from a small boutique shop
Juvenile ownership
Timelines for product delivery that are fiction
Lots of high quality competitors in the marketplace.
You seem to be making this personal, talking about "poor instructors.." Rather reminiscent of Alex Robinson himself. That is a little like saying a good driver should know how to run a Fiat. They do; they also know that there more sustainable, more reliable, less maintenance intensive cars on the road. XCR, Beretta PX4 are mechanically less reliable and less robust than other systems. We teach students to succeed with them, and mitigate the design issues. Students can succeed with them.. But there are better choices out there. You yourself said "don't deal with RA directly". Why would I do business with a manufacture that I can't deal with directly?
I'm glad that you like your XCR, and I'm glad that you have confidence in it. IT just didn't work for me or the folks that I have trained with. I have no emotional attachment to any piece of equipment. If there is something better, I move on. Just like I get a new saw, screw driver or knife. For me, 6920s and Styer Aug A3s are my 5.56 systems. To each his own.
Feel free to send me your unloved XCR's.
Necro thread bump.
Has anything in the general market changed over the last seven or eight years to change the hive mind's opinion on the XCR? Will Bushmaster killing off the ACR change anything?
The XCR continues on with little or no attention from the usual media outlets so someone must be buying them. Either that or RobArm is a small subsidiary of a larger company that keeps it propped up financially.
I have little experience with the XCR-L (and none with the M) but the rifle seems to be high quality. There are no sharp edges, tool marks inside, etc. The action runs smoothly and the trigger is good. The rifle has evolved and is available in KeyMod or MLOK formats and RobArm seems to support the platform with parts and caliber conversion kits which is something neither Bushmaster nor FN really seems to be able to do with the SCAR or ACR.
I guess at this point in history probably the only rifle that "betters" the XCR is probably the SIG MCX. They are similar in features and functions but the XCR probably beats it currently due to caliber choice and available replacement parts although the MCX is also available in a variety of options and the available options continue to expand. SIG is starting to sell parts but don't seem to be selling barrel components. This keeps the choice of parts for custom barrel makers to zero.
As others have noted here, Alex himself is not known for customer service. Has any of that changed? Has he softened a bit and/or hired someone to handle customer service?
On a somewhat related note; I talked to Mr Robinson in 2003, I believe it was, at the SAR Show in Phoenix. The XCR was brand new and he had several samples in his show booth. He was touting his rifle as combining the best of the AR and AK into one rifle. So I asked him if he was basically making a copy of the Daewoo. His immediate response was NO! Then he thought about it for a second and said, "well, kind of..."
The other product RobArm is known for is a rifle based off the Stoner 63. I shot one of these back in 1999 and kind of liked it but didn't buy. I wish I would have now looking back on it.
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
Here's a recent review of the XCR-M.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-ClrDnw39A
BoringGuy45
06-20-20, 21:20
Is there any hope for the future of this rifle? It seems like it's about 95% of the way to being an excellent design if they correct the barrel nut problem and get some good business and customer service skills.
Is there any hope for the future of this rifle? It seems like it's about 95% of the way to being an excellent design if they correct the barrel nut problem and get some good business and customer service skills.
What's the issue with the barrel nut?
How well does the rifle hold zero when pulling and installing the barrel?
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
BoringGuy45
06-21-20, 07:39
What's the issue with the barrel nut?
How well does the rifle hold zero when pulling and installing the barrel?
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
There's been multiple reports that that single barrel nut often comes loose during heavy use. It's been suggested that if RobArm went to a system like what the SCAR or the LMT MRP has, it would be much more secure, and also allow for easy barrel changes.
There's been multiple reports that that single barrel nut often comes loose during heavy use. It's been suggested that if RobArm went to a system like what the SCAR or the LMT MRP has, it would be much more secure, and also allow for easy barrel changes.
LMT type of retention is the way to go. Or add a ratchet system to the single retention screw. I’ve always felt that the single retention screw seems like an afterthought instead of a purposeful design feature.
There's been multiple reports that that single barrel nut often comes loose during heavy use. It's been suggested that if RobArm went to a system like what the SCAR or the LMT MRP has, it would be much more secure, and also allow for easy barrel changes.Is there a torque spec that's not being met? Operator error or design flaw? Maybe a combination of both.
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
Is there a torque spec that's not being met? Operator error or design flaw? Maybe a combination of both.
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
It’s a single screw in an area that has dynamic stresses upon it. Seems a design flaw.
It’s a single screw in an area that has dynamic stresses upon it. Seems a design flaw.Here's some info on the torque spec which is 240 inch pounds or 20 foot pounds:
https://youtu.be/ewpqvUavLrk
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
I think Alex pissed people off when he was making an improved Stoner 63 and then didn’t follow through with other calibers or parts. Ya old design but one people want. His new offering look pretty solid but as other have said garbage CS and lack of follow through from a boutique manufacturer does not make me want to part with that much money knowing he may not be around. Now if he were to win some military contracts then I would consider his products.
I have no data to back it up. But my impression has been that Canadian shooters have been keeping Robarm limping along. It had escaped most of Canada’s bans, and was an alternative to AR’s up north. Much like the SAN SWISS 550’s that they’ve enjoyed for so many years.
It looked cool and sounded like a good idea. But has never been compelling enough for me to overlook the negatives.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.