View Full Version : Opinions on Flat vs Curved Triggers
Hey guys, I'm working on assembling a lower and I can't decide between the Geissele SSA-E or SD-E triggers. Unfortunately, living in central Wisconsin doesn't offer me many options as far as actually going to a gun shop and comparing one to the other. In fact... I don't think there are ANY shops around here that would have them set up in lowers to try (unless someone knows something I don't). I've done a search and found some good facts on Geissele's website, but I'm actually looking strictly for opinions on this topic.
The purpose of the complete rifle will be an all around training/HD/combat/SPR role... I guess that's sort of asking a lot from a trigger but that's why I picked Geissele. I think I've settled on the "enhanced" version for the best blend of precision without getting too light for high stress situations. According to Geisseles website, on top of offering a lighter, crisper pull, the enhanced line also offers a less travel before the break, which should translate into a quicker reset, right? (See page 2 of http://geissele.com/pdfs/SD_flyer3_wTriggerScan.pdf for reference) What I'm hung up on is do I get the traditional curved trigger, or the flat Dynamic trigger?
My main concerns/questions:
Which trigger provides the best "purchase" for your finger? A slippery trigger is one of my biggest pet-peeves and makes an otherwise good trigger a no-go for me.
Has anyone had issues with consistency on where they place their finger on a Dynamic trigger? Without a curve, I can see how it might be more difficult to judge where your finger actually is on the trigger (unless you put it right at the bottom) and this will affect both the perceived pull weight and travel before it breaks. I've pondered using a piece of skateboard grip tape on the trigger as an index point, and this would aid in overall grip as well, but I'm wondering if this is really even a problem for anyone?
Has anyone noticed any difficulty or hesitation switching back and forth between a Dynamic trigger (or any flat trigger for that matter) and traditional curved triggers on other guns? My go-to side arm is a G17.
I dug up this quote from http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109811&highlight=geissele+sdc+ssa during my search:
I have 4 SSA, 1 SSA-E, 1 S3G, 1 SD-C. The jury is still out on all of them except the SSA which I think is the do-it-all great trigger. They are all OUTSTANDING triggers and I would only put a Geissele in my rifles.
I know of one of the top 3 Gunners in the country that can use what ever he wants and has tested every Geissele trigger and still prefers the High Speed National Match-DMR.
My interpretation on these triggers and as always YMMV and you get what you pay for :p this is just me and "my" opinion.
SSA is an all around solid combat do it all well 2 stage trigger. Breaks like carrot - noticeable tension, noticeable break
SSA-E is the SSA with a bit lighter and a bit more crisp trigger pull that needs a very well trained/disciplined shooter for use under combat stress. Breaks like icesickle/candycaine short sharp tension and a sudden snap
S3G is hard to describe as it does not "break" it is a "rolling break" there is "to me" no noticeable tension/shelf, but it feels more like the trigger is being pulled thru thickened heavy air or thru a soft brush and then bang. Its fast. Is it faster that any other trigger? Don't know yet but I'm working on it:p
SD series are the same as its complementary trigger designate, but with a different trigger face (flat) and it creates a longer reach for your trigger finger (which I LOVE) as it sits further forward, not sure if this is solely from the trigger shape or a combination of shape, angle and position. I measured the distance between curved and flat triggers using very IMPRECISE methods:eek: and the distance from the back of a:
BCM Mod 1 grip to face of curved Geissele SSA-E is 2 1/2"
BCM Mod 1 grip to face of flat Geissele SD-C is 2 3/4"
So, far I really like the extra length which gets my trigger finger more straight and the pad of first digit more consistent on the trigger face (for me)... FYI I also have medium hands.
The DMR I believe is suppose to be the ultimate precision beast and some are adjustable and some are not, but have never done anything but dryfire one.
I will always have some SSA triggers in guns and as my bullet proof backup triggers. I am really hoping the Dynamic series with the longer reach between web of hand to face of trigger (LOP would be incorrect term) will be the Bee's Knee's for me but will have to get used to the flat trigger which (for me) is a bit scary... scary how you say?
When you press the trigger for your preset you feel the curved trigger kind of lock you into place and you do not have this psychologically tactile comfort factor with the flat trigger... when you start with it (for me:confused:) my finger feels nekid and nervous not knowing if it is in the right place or am I going to slide around, etc. it lacks a tactile witness mark to say you are in the right place and from what I understand that is actually the purpose as it now does not matter, but it will take time for me to develop confidence that my shot will be OK;)
I would be happy with any of them as they are that great!
Good Luck!
I do find myself wishing for more distance between my hand and a stock flat trigger, but the nervous and naked feeling M4Fundi mentions is one of the things I am concerned about. Does anyone else experience this? And if so, what have you tried to remedy it? (I'm still thinking along the lines of a small piece of grip tape on the front of the trigger...)
I have a SD-C. I absolutely love it. I've owned standard GI triggers, a SSA, SSA-E, S3G, and the SD-C.
The SD-C feels just as crisp and clean as the SSA-E, but the flat bow of the SD-C's trigger shoes give you a better feedback.
It feels wider than a normal trigger, which may or may not be the case. But the purchase on the trigger is substantial. It is not slippery. Flat triggers are less picky as to finger placement as compared to their curved counter parts. If I ever get around to getting that custom 1911 going, it WILL have a flat trigger.
You can pull straight through both stages on the SD-C when shooting quick without any perception that you are pulling through two stages. On long shots the two stage setup is nice.
I found myself every so often sweeping the trigger through both stages when shooting at 100 yards, which IMO, is a training scar from shooting my duty pistol, which is a double action only Beretta with its long trigger pull. When I do this, I notice the effect on target; I'll pull a shot out of my typical group size. By this I mean I go from just under MOA to maybe 1.2 to 1.3 MOA.
I was hesitant at buying one as well, but once I tried it I was sold.
SomeOtherGuy
04-14-13, 22:44
My main concerns/questions:
Which trigger provides the best "purchase" for your finger? A slippery trigger is one of my biggest pet-peeves and makes an otherwise good trigger a no-go for me.
Has anyone had issues with consistency on where they place their finger on a Dynamic trigger? Without a curve, I can see how it might be more difficult to judge where your finger actually is on the trigger (unless you put it right at the bottom) and this will affect both the perceived pull weight and travel before it breaks. I've pondered using a piece of skateboard grip tape on the trigger as an index point, and this would aid in overall grip as well, but I'm wondering if this is really even a problem for anyone?
Has anyone noticed any difficulty or hesitation switching back and forth between a Dynamic trigger (or any flat trigger for that matter) and traditional curved triggers on other guns? My go-to side arm is a G17.
I've been using the Geissele SSA and SDC triggers for over two years now, and more recently have tried the SDE, SD3 and S2S. I like them both, really, but slightly prefer the flat bow. FYI I am only an amateur who likes shooting, not a professional.
1) I've had no issues with "purchase" in any conditions I've tried, including classes, and competitions in weather from 85+ to 15 degrees (gloves below 40, of course). I think the curved bow might be better in that regard, but I have never had any problem with the flat bow.
2) I have not found any issue with consistency of finger placement.
3) I switch back and forth regularly and use a Glock 17 in competitions alongside my SDC or SDE wearing rifle, and have not had any issue.
For me, even with XL hands (I wear XL or 2XL gloves), I find that the flat bow super-dynamic models work best with a grip that's not quite as big as I like for use with the conventional curved trigger. So, for me, I use the BCM Mod1 grip with the flat bow and something like the Magpul MOE with the curved bow. Not critical, but is my strong preference. Depending on your hand size and shape you will likely prefer something different. I'm not even finding it 100% predictable, because I'm now using a Larue APEG with the SDE, even though I don't like the MOE grip with the SDC - those grips are basically the same size, though slightly different shapes. YMMV etc.
The SD triggers ruined me!
All three triggers in the lineup are the best of their respective classes imho. The SD-C is the best hard use AR trigger, the SD-E is the best hard use precision AR trigger, and lastly the SD-3G is best gaming trigger made feeling.
In terms of feel....the SD-E, and SD-3G really blow everything else away imho.
ETA..
to answer the title..
The SD design sensitizes the trigger's pull to the naked touch. Essentially it works to lighten the pull by perception vs. reality. SSA-E feels like 3.5-4lbs......SD-E feels more like 3-3.5lbs.
Or get the Tricon which IMO is the best of both worlds. The top is curved but the bottom is flat like the SD-C style, yet the face of the trigger is serrated which give you better feel especially with gloves on. Unfortunately they dont have a Tricon-E model yet but it has the same advantage similar to the SD-C. TRIDENT82 may disown me for this but i switched out the SD-C for a Tricon and never looked back.
Naw I'd never do such a thing....moreover I must admit I haven't had the opportunity to try a new Tricon trigger out.
I could just sit on the couch all day dryfiring a SD-E or SD-3G :p
I've got 6 SD3G triggers that I use on my duty/SWAT rifles, lov'em.
Naw I'd never do such a thing....moreover I must admit I haven't had the opportunity to try a new Tricon trigger out.
I could just sit on the couch all day dryfiring a SD-E or SD-3G :p
It is very soothing...
If you get the chance to try a Tricon i'd say do it. I didnt know about it until Shot where they had a couple demo's on their table. I was set on another SD-C for my SR15 until i started playing with the Tricon. For me it just works.
halfmoonclip
04-15-13, 08:56
Never quite understood the notion that flat triggers were less sensitive to where you placed your finger; further down the trigger would give you greater movement and more leverage; higher up, just the opposite.
I prefer curved because the finger just 'finds' the bottom of the curve; I've a Magqpul pistol grip, and it all comes out just fine with my hand size. Another vote for the SSA as a really fine all around trigger.
It would seem to me that, with the flat trigger, there is some chance of getting a finger low enough on it to get tangled up with the guard?
Anyhow, MHO.
Moon
My SD-C is like crack. Will not have another rifle without one.
The interface with the flat trigger is hard to describe without actually trying one out yourself.
-Jax
davidjinks
04-15-13, 13:26
I've got 5 SD-C triggers and 1 SSA-E.
I find that the SD-C allows me to have better control of the trigger (Purchase area as you put it) in regards to being wet/sweaty. The trigger is wider and flat and allows a more sutable ledge to hold on too. I've experienced no issues with purchase area while using the -C triggers.
After using the -C triggers for the last 2 years, my finger goes to the same place everytime, low center of the trigger. I've experimented with different positions (Hi, mid, low) and having my finger low on the trigger just flat out works better for me. When I first started using them I would short stroke the trigger many times. Usually on a high placement of my finger or a mid hold. The lower hold runs the trigger solid without the short stroke.
The only difficulty I've ever experienced from going back and forth between triggers is when switching from my SD-C to the SSA-E. I have to constantly remind myself that there is in fact a difference. That break definitely sneaks up on you with the SSA-E. I've only been using the -E for a couple months now so I'm still learning it. Going from the -C to say a Glock trigger, no issues other than I wish my Glock trigger was as nice as the -C.
BufordTJustice
04-15-13, 16:04
My SD-C is like crack. Will not have another rifle without one.
The interface with the flat trigger is hard to describe without actually trying one out yourself.
-Jax
+1
I loved my SD-C and would still be using it if the command staff at my agency weren't mouth breathers. :/
From a novice perspective, I have an SD-C and very much prefer its feel over a traditional curved trigger. No problems going back and forth between the C and my M&P or PPQ triggers. I fell in love with it the instant I first dry fired it.
Dist. Expert 26
04-15-13, 17:15
I recently switched to the SD-C and I couldn't be happier. The flat blade really facilitates proper trigger manipulation and the feeling on my trigger finger is very positive, no slipping or anything.
I've got an SD-C and a few SSA's. While the SD-C is a very nice trigger, I've come to the conclusion it really matters very little, flat vs curved - so for that reason I'd sooner save a few bucks and get the curved ones these days. Going back and forth between the two doesn't seem an issue either.
I could just sit on the couch all day dryfiring a SD-E or SD-3G :p
And I thought I was the only one. :D
WOW! Thank you for all the replies. I really didn't expect this thread to generate this much interest. So it seems the general consensus is that my original concerns are unfounded... good to hear. If someone DOES have a negative experience to share about the Dynamic triggers, or you just plain don't like them for whatever reason, please share and give details.
Two new questions popped into my head as I was reading the replies:
What grip do you prefer with the SD-C/SD-E/SD3G? (specific trigger doesnt matter for this one as long as it's in the super dynamic line) I was planning on going with the MOE but I know the reach for my finger will be a little farther with the SD-E and the MOE grip is thicker than other grips (one of the reasons I want to go with it... I feel like it will more closely mimic the thickness of a Glock grip). FWIW, in the past I have always used standard curved triggers and the standard A2 grip and ALWAYS found myself wishing the trigger was farther forward, or the grip was farther back. My hands are on the smaller side but they fit a Glock 9mm/40S&W/.357Sig frame decent enough... the Glock .45ACP/10mm, not so well. I can reach the trigger, but I cant reach the front of the trigger guard.
For those of you that have tried both the super semi-auto and super dynamic triggers of the same flavor (example: SSA/SD-C, or SSA-E/SD-E, not SSA-E/SD-C), does the super dynamic line offer enough functional benefit over the super semi-auto to justify the added cost, in your opinion? Keep in mind the eventual purpose for this rifle will be a dual role combat/precision type.
Or get the Tricon which IMO is the best of both worlds. The top is curved but the bottom is flat like the SD-C style, yet the face of the trigger is serrated which give you better feel especially with gloves on. Unfortunately they dont have a Tricon-E model yet but it has the same advantage similar to the SD-C. TRIDENT82 may disown me for this but i switched out the SD-C for a Tricon and never looked back.
I saw those, but I'm not sure I see the benefit of a hybrid trigger... seems like it would function just like a flat face trigger only with a shorter reach for your finger due to the curve at the top - it's not like you're going to be squeezing the very top of the trigger. Maybe the shorter reach is the point, idk. The serrations look nice, but I can use grip tape if need be. The big thing that jumped out at me is that Geissele specifically notes that the springs are stainless steel... Am I correct in inferring then that the springs in their other triggers are not stainless steel? :confused:
If they had a Tricon-E out right now it would probably rank higher among triggers I'm considering. I'm pretty settled on the "enhanced" version of whichever trigger I go with, unless you think there's a reason I should stick with the standard combat version? I'm all ears.
Trigger grooves are generally held to be a poor choice for higher volume, fast shooting. A trigger with grooves or other type of rough surface will blister the trigger finger quickly. This may not apply to shooters who always wear gloves.
David Thomas
04-16-13, 10:00
The SD triggers ruined me!
All three triggers in the lineup are the best of their respective classes imho. The SD-C is the best hard use AR trigger, the SD-E is the best hard use precision AR trigger, and lastly the SD-3G is best gaming trigger made feeling.
In terms of feel....the SD-E, and SD-3G really blow everything else away imho.
ETA..
to answer the title..
The SD design sensitizes the trigger's pull to the naked touch. Essentially it works to lighten the pull by perception vs. reality. SSA-E feels like 3.5-4lbs......SD-E feels more like 3-3.5lbs.
I am curious as to what other triggers you have tried?
JBecker 72
04-16-13, 10:27
Big fan of my SD-C trigger. Need to purchase a second one in the near future.
Tapatalk ate my grammar
SomeOtherGuy
04-16-13, 10:40
Two new questions popped into my head as I was reading the replies:
What grip do you prefer with the SD-C/SD-E/SD3G? (specific trigger doesnt matter for this one as long as it's in the super dynamic line) I was planning on going with the MOE but I know the reach for my finger will be a little farther with the SD-E and the MOE grip is thicker than other grips (one of the reasons I want to go with it... I feel like it will more closely mimic the thickness of a Glock grip). FWIW, in the past I have always used standard curved triggers and the standard A2 grip and ALWAYS found myself wishing the trigger was farther forward, or the grip was farther back. My hands are on the smaller side but they fit a Glock 9mm/40S&W/.357Sig frame decent enough... the Glock .45ACP/10mm, not so well. I can reach the trigger, but I cant reach the front of the trigger guard.
For those of you that have tried both the super semi-auto and super dynamic triggers of the same flavor (example: SSA/SD-C, or SSA-E/SD-E, not SSA-E/SD-C), does the super dynamic line offer enough functional benefit over the super semi-auto to justify the added cost, in your opinion? Keep in mind the eventual purpose for this rifle will be a dual role combat/precision type.
1) I've tried the SD triggers with the MOE, BCM Mod1, and Larue APEG grips. I like them with the Mod1 and APEG. I found the reach a bit too long with the MOE. As I noted above I can't fully explain this since the APEG is similar in size to the MOE. My hands are large but flat with long fingers (glove size XL-2XL).
2) Considering the entry price for any Geissele trigger, I do think the flat bow SD trigger has a benefit worth its extra cost. You'll just have to try and decide for yourself, but considering what everything else costs these days, $40-50 extra for the SD isn't a ton. (Though I'm not sure why it should cost any more.)
I am curious as to what other triggers you have tried?
Owned:
Several stock single stage triggers
ALG ACT trigger
Several KAC 2 stage match triggers
Several LMT 2 stage triggers
Several S2S 2 stage triggers
Several SSA triggers
Two SD-Es
SD-3G
SD-C
I've tried a number of other triggers as well, but never owned any of them.
I have the geissele SD-C and I love it. I'm nowhere near a trigger snob but I have one AR when I was building it I wanted the best I could get. The flat trigger is great no matter where your finger is, is where it feels like it should be if that makes any sense. Plus it just looks awesome not many people around my small town have ever even seen a flat trigger much less shot one and they all love it one they do.
David Thomas
04-16-13, 11:14
Owned:
Several stock single stage triggers
ALG ACT trigger
Several KAC 2 stage match triggers
Several LMT 2 stage triggers
Several S2S 2 stage triggers
Several SSA triggers
Two SD-Es
SD-3G
SD-C
I've tried a number of other triggers as well, but never owned any of them.
thanks.
After trying several Geissele curved and flat triggers in the past I have finally settled on the Geissele Tricon, and have been using one since they first became available, in my RDS carbine. The grit blasted serrations on the trigger face are not sharp but definitely help to reduce slippage when wet and I have had no issue with it abrading my trigger finger with high volumes of fire. In my Recce type rifle I am using the SSA-E trigger. I have tried the Geissele dynamic flat faced triggers, and they are fine , but I still prefer the slight curved face of the Tricon or the curved SSA-E. For me, the curved ones just feel more natural and stable on my trigger finger.
wilson1911
04-16-13, 12:38
I have shot a 1911 for a long time and wanted to replicate the same "feeling" for my rifle. To say finger placement is an issue, is false. Do we worry about where our finger is on a 1911 ? nope.
The grip on an AR is where you will find how and where you like to purchase the gun. I would say buy a couple of different grips and try them out with a flat bow. If you have larger hands, the MIAD with it interchangeable grip size is good.
The biggest thing I have noticed with the SD-g3, is the amount of meat you feel when your finger lands on the trigger. My brother uses SD triggers, but the enhanced version. The feedback from either gives you a large amount to fill your senses with.
While my KAC trigger is good, G's triggers are hands down better. Feedback is incredible, as well as the crispness of each pull. Any model will work well in the SD line. If you end up buying one, you will not be disappointed. I would never willingly go back to a curved trigger.
I didn't much care for the way they look. Then I used my buddy's SD-C. I now run SD-3Gs on my rifles.
wilson1911
04-16-13, 14:53
I will concur with that statement. Even 2nd 3rd 4th it.
I have used stock, jewel, jardin, kac, and Geissele triggers.
All Geissele are wonderful.The biggest difference is how your finger and gun feels during the pull. The 3g is like a hot knife thru butter. It takes a bit to get used to it, but then you will find yourself finger F***ing your gun alot.
BufordTJustice
04-19-13, 21:35
1) BCM Grip Mod-1 (the thicker one...still thinner than an MOE).
2) Yes, the SD's warrant the extra cost. And, yes, I've shot both.
WOW! Thank you for all the replies. I really didn't expect this thread to generate this much interest. So it seems the general consensus is that my original concerns are unfounded... good to hear. If someone DOES have a negative experience to share about the Dynamic triggers, or you just plain don't like them for whatever reason, please share and give details.
Two new questions popped into my head as I was reading the replies:
What grip do you prefer with the SD-C/SD-E/SD3G? (specific trigger doesnt matter for this one as long as it's in the super dynamic line) I was planning on going with the MOE but I know the reach for my finger will be a little farther with the SD-E and the MOE grip is thicker than other grips (one of the reasons I want to go with it... I feel like it will more closely mimic the thickness of a Glock grip). FWIW, in the past I have always used standard curved triggers and the standard A2 grip and ALWAYS found myself wishing the trigger was farther forward, or the grip was farther back. My hands are on the smaller side but they fit a Glock 9mm/40S&W/.357Sig frame decent enough... the Glock .45ACP/10mm, not so well. I can reach the trigger, but I cant reach the front of the trigger guard.
For those of you that have tried both the super semi-auto and super dynamic triggers of the same flavor (example: SSA/SD-C, or SSA-E/SD-E, not SSA-E/SD-C), does the super dynamic line offer enough functional benefit over the super semi-auto to justify the added cost, in your opinion? Keep in mind the eventual purpose for this rifle will be a dual role combat/precision type.
halfmoonclip
04-19-13, 21:49
Just being rid of that damned A2 pistol grip (and its miserable finger bump) is reason enough to try something else. Until the MOE, I actually used A1s on everything, and still like them.
I like the MOE for the extra material covering the back of the lower. Choke as high on the grip as possible.
Moon
Ready.Fire.Aim
04-20-13, 01:03
I put a SD-E on my .300Blackout hog hunting rifle. I am ordering another for my next build. It is a great trigger, I highly recommend it.
I have four SSA on other AR15s and a RR National Match on a precision AR to compare two. Also a factory Noveske with unknown trigger.
wilson1911
04-20-13, 15:03
I would go for the enhanced version is your rifle is going to fill two roles. If you get another AR thats going to be non precision, I would look to the SD-3G, it's an entirely different animal. Fun Fun Fun !!!:dance3:
One thing to remember about G's triggers, if you do not like it, you can always recoup most of your cash for "trying" it out.
The general feeling in all these posts are that....any of their triggers are one of the best adds you can do to your gun hands down. The Sd's provide more feedback to the trigger finger than curved.
forgot to ad that starting with the MIAD grip will allow you to find out how much more or less of a purchase you will have for grip. I do not have long fingers, but I do find that I like the bcm grip better. My brother has long fingers that can curl all the way thru and back around to touch the other side of the gun, so he uses and sd with thickest miad grip. This has allowed both of us to try each others platforms out.
halfmoonclip
04-20-13, 22:44
Entirely concur that money spent on a good trigger is money well spent.
Moon
Thanks for the advice everyone. Looks like I'll be going with an SD-E as soon as Grant has LPKs in stock again. (planned on ordering it as a packaged deal)
My SD-C is like crack. Will not have another rifle without one.
The interface with the flat trigger is hard to describe without actually trying one out yourself.
-Jax
Yep! The SBR is chugging along on a well-loved GI trigger for a while. Didn't realize how much I liked the SD-C til I went back to the curved standard. :sad:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/BAD/8CF495D6-2103-4AB8-8441-7673550A7E3C-362-0000001DDFE53EEB_zpsa673bb8f.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/myersma2/media/BAD/8CF495D6-2103-4AB8-8441-7673550A7E3C-362-0000001DDFE53EEB_zpsa673bb8f.jpg.html)
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