View Full Version : Job well done !!
Larry Vickers
04-17-13, 22:57
I want to take a minute and thank all of you that were engaged in the 2A fight of our lives; renewing or upgrading your NRA membership, educationing friends and neighbors, calling or writing your representatives - going 'all in' as I and others asked you to do
We won; make no mistake the battle is not over and never will be but ask yourself if on Dec 15th someone would have told you that NO serious firearms legislation of any kind would pass the Senate five months after the event would you have believed them - I for one would have bet hard earned money against it ; I felt the anti's had the perfect storm and some kind of gun legislation was inevitable
It is important in life to take time and savor the good times- those special moments when you know you made a difference and were part of something bigger than yourself; this is one of those times
Do something to celebrate- have a party, go to a shooting event, have dinner with 2A friends, buy that rifle or handgun you have wanted for a long time; mark this event with something lasting that will serve to reinforce your resolve in the tough times
I have already had people on M4C and elsewhere thank me for my leadership in this recent crisis - I must say thanks goes to all of you for doing your part in defeating the biggest anti gun push in my lifetime
Well done everyone- well done
Celebrate then it's time to get back on point until the next time our constitutional rights are under attack
Be safe and stay the course
LAV
Thank you LAV for a being leader on this, and for standing with "we the people." A lot of thanks goes to many other people and businesses who have also engaged in the fight. We have a victory today, but the war will never end.
Magic_Salad0892
04-17-13, 23:07
Absolutely, thanks LAV for being the calm voice everybody else would listen to.
And warning us about the executive orders.
montanadave
04-17-13, 23:09
but ask yourself if on Dec 15th someone would have told you that NO serious firearms legislation of any kind would pass the Senate five months after the event would you have believed them - I for one would have bet hard earned money against it ; I felt the anti's had the perfect storm and some kind of gun legislation was inevitable
LAV
Tell me about it. I'm gonna have to mail my brother twenty bucks tomorrow.
But I'll mail it with a smile on my face. :)
Then I've gotta go dig some shit up.
Magic_Salad0892
04-17-13, 23:19
If this is a celebration thread, would it be a good idea to post Joe Biden/Obama memes in it?
Even so. For celebration, some Joe Biden-y goodness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcjet2MwUR0
Ouroborous
04-17-13, 23:20
I'm not sure I would've believed anyone that said no new laws would come out of the recent events either.
Today is a victory to be remembered for sure.
I'm gonna celebrate at the range next weekend and build another rifle to mark the occasion!
Thanks goes out to all supporters of our 2A rights--good job!
A big thanks to you LAV, as well as other industry professionals, who stood next to all of us during such trying times.
Quit it salad....
My guts are in my lap.
ETA: on purpose this time... Thank you Mr. Vickers.
We should listen to this man...
Now let's keep the fight going to gain back ground we've lost. No more defense. We tried playing with their rules and things only got worse. Trail is over. Back to the 2A as the constitution intended.
polymorpheous
04-18-13, 00:00
I'm very happy with the outcome of all of our hard work.
Of course, I'd be even happier if Obama was not in office.
Mr. Vickers, thank you for your continued encouragement, and pleas keep your considerations for the NRA board open.
We need men like you as a national voice.
Now let's keep the fight going to gain back ground we've lost.
YES, PLEASE!!!!!
NYS passed all of Feinstein's ideas and more. It was Armageddon for us. Just remember NY and CT and CO while you're sipping your Dom Perignon. We took some serious casualties.
We know...
It's not over.
Thanks LAV.
To be honest, until ammo becomes readily available, there will be very little range time. And who knows how the Boston event may be twisted to try to outlaw "large quantities" of ammo or reloading (due to gun powder being explosive). Keep vigilant.
And meanwhile (per Drudge):
Congressman: Immigration Bill 'Worse Than We Thought'...
Legalizes Relatives and Previously Deported...
844 Page Bill Would Take 3 Days to Read NONSTOP Before Friday Morning Hearing...
Did we really win or is there just a lull in the battle and could it flare up tomorrow or the next day again. I am not questioning LAV.
I just read in the news that these were procedural votes and could be raised again, or something of that sort. That Reid was keeping the options open to raise the amendments again.
Help fill me in. Can they meet in the middle of the night and try to pass this again sometime real soon when we are not looking?
--
http://www.humanevents.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/dianne-feinstein.jpg
We won, now unhand my carbine woman!
:D
Thanks LAV! It's bittersweet, as SMETNA pointed out there has been a high cost, and the Local/State fights are far from over. Hopefully common sense will prevail and some of the knee jerk laws will be repealed. These people will be back.... Until then.......
Did we really win?
No.
Authoritarians will always push for victim disarmament. Especially as we get closer to the debt/economic/inflationary event horizon, and our whole way of life begins to unravel. They'll continue to push HARD for the next decade, mark my words.
No.
Authoritarians will always push for victim disarmament. Especially as we get closer to the debt/economic/inflationary event horizon, and our whole way of life begins to unravel. They'll continue to push HARD for the next decade, mark my words.
Agreed, but that was not the question.
Is the CURRENT (Federal) fight over or can it flare up again tomorrow. As I mentioned, the article I read said the votes were procedural and the amendments could be brought to vote again at any time.
What is the truth of the matter?
--
Ah.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/294571-senate-rejects-tougher-background-checks-on-gun-purchases
.Now Democratic leaders will have to overhaul the pending gun control bill to give it a chance of passing the Senate in diminished form.
Ah.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/294571-senate-rejects-tougher-background-checks-on-gun-purchases
Reid supported the measure but voted against it to preserve his ability to bring the measure up again.
What does this mean? That is my concern.
I have no knowledge of how the Senate really works, but it can't mean that the subject would be off limits since any Senator can propose an amendment. So he would not need to vote against it to preserve the ability to propose the same stuff in a new amendment. So it has to, if my logic is correct, mean something else like resurrecting THIS same amendment. That is what worries me.
--
As Sun Tzu would recommend...
After a victorious battle... Immediately let your guard down and relax! :p
Yes, thank you Larry.
It is a shame we have to continue to fight this battle but until we have a decent media outlet to provide facts to the masses I don;t think they will ever stop.
Now is the time to go local and get rights secured and restored.
Thank you Larry for all you have done.
I believe that it is due to social media and forums like this one that has allowed us to prevent this from becoming another 1994. We are better organized.
Larry,
As others have said, THANK YOU for rallying support and taking the lead on this, thank you very much. I was one if the "we're screwed" group. I phoned and mailed and made my voice heard, but I was pretty certain it was for not. Thankfully, I was wrong. For now.
Now, forget the NRA board, I'm thinking more like 2016. :)
Doc. Holiday
04-18-13, 09:14
Thanks Larry and thanks to everyone else for educated your friends and being active in the fight!
montanadave
04-18-13, 09:43
Agreed, but that was not the question.
Is the CURRENT (Federal) fight over or can it flare up again tomorrow. As I mentioned, the article I read said the votes were procedural and the amendments could be brought to vote again at any time.
What is the truth of the matter?
--
I'm not a parliamentarian or well-versed in Senate rules, but my understanding is that, under current Senate rules, a "motion to reconsider" can only be made by a member of the winning side in a vote, thus preventing the losing side from endlessly bringing the issue up again and again for repeated votes:
"As Sarah Binder, a Senate rules expert at George Washington University, said, it’s not that the majority leader has to vote no. It’s that somebody on the winning side of the cloture vote — in this case, the side voting against cloture — has to file a “motion to reconsider” if the matter is to be taken up again. “I suppose the broader parliamentary principle here is that it would be somewhat unfair to give someone on the losing side of a question a second bite at the apple,” Binder explained. So the rules provide for senators whose opinion has changed to motion for another vote, whereas those whose opinion stays the same don’t get to keep filing to reconsider."(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/18/harry-reid-had-a-good-reason-to-vote-against-the-gun-bill/)
Without changing the Senate rules which require 60 votes for cloture (invoking the so-called "nuclear option"), as opposed to a simple majority, or a major event which might compel a sufficient number of senators to change their votes, it is highly unlikely that Reid would waste the Senate's time with another vote on these gun-control measures. I am unaware of any "loopholes" which would allow gun-control advocates to sneak in a back door vote to advance this legislation.
But, as always, never say never.
My cynical side gets me thinking that perhaps the NRA likes gun control scares because they get the funds flowing.
People aren't flocking to join when tyranny is at bay. :confused:
Can we stop laughing, joking and congratulating ourselves? Yes, we won a major battle, but it's one battle in a war. We've got a huge demographic shift that's about to hit and our cause took a huge blow in NY, CO, CT and California is poised to go even deeper off the deep end. Press the fight! Send money to support lawsuits on the state level. Change some minds, take someone shooting! Do it for the children before they're deprived of an American birthright.
My cynical side gets me thinking that perhaps the NRA likes gun control scares because they get the funds flowing.
People aren't flocking to join when tyranny is at bay. :confused:
I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption, but it doesn't change the fact that they wield power over politicians and for the most part we're on the same side.
Sometimes you just gotta hold your nose.
I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption, but it doesn't change the fact that they wield power over politicians and for the most part we're on the same side.
Sometimes you just gotta hold your nose.
Oh I renewed my membership... but It strikes me as one of those things that can go perverted. If they don't have some libtards and tyranny, then no one sends them money. :blink:
Doc. Holiday
04-18-13, 10:01
Can we stop laughing, joking and congratulating ourselves? Yes, we won a major battle, but it's one battle in a war. We've got a huge demographic shift that's about to hit and our cause took a huge blow in NY, CO, CT and California is poised to go even deeper off the deep end. Press the fight! Send money to support lawsuits on the state level. Change some minds, take someone shooting! Do it for the children before they're deprived of an American birthright.
I believe that there were several who included in their posts in not only this thread but other threads as well that say we need to stay on guard.
PA PATRIOT
04-18-13, 10:01
This was no win,
If the Boston bombs were replaced with two active shooters in the crowd those AWB votes would have gone the other way. This loss is only a minor set back for the anti gun crowd as they know that's its only a matter of time before some piss poor excuse for a human being shoots up a school, church or work place.
Eventually they are going to get another AWB as these gun related mass events occur over time and the only thing we can do as gun owners is to try to delay it for as long as possible.
Doc Safari
04-18-13, 10:14
I just read an article on word meanings, and it seems the word "Congress" was once used as a euphemism for having sex. I think this is highly appropriate since every time the US Congress meets we take a chance on getting screwed.
Celebrate!
Even soldiers in battle celebrate a victory knowing that another fight is just around the corner.
I just read an article on word meanings, and it seems the word "Congress" was once used as a euphemism for having sex. I think this is highly appropriate since every time the US Congress meets we take a chance on getting screwed.
Reminds me of Gallager the comic... What's the opposite of Progress? Congress.
I'd celebrate with a range day but..... yea throwing rocks at paper and steel plates just isnt the same. :D
Good Job everyone.
Oh, and Mr. Vickers have you given anymore thought to becoming more involved with the NRA as a spokesmen? I recall their being some discussion about that awhile back.
I'm relieved that we won this round.
You best believe I'll be prepared next time around.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
04-18-13, 11:41
I want to take a minute and thank all of you that were engaged in the 2A fight of our lives; renewing or upgrading your NRA membership, educationing friends and neighbors, calling or writing your representatives - going 'all in' as I and others asked you to do
We won; make no mistake the battle is not over and never will be but ask yourself if on Dec 15th someone would have told you that NO serious firearms legislation of any kind would pass the Senate five months after the event would you have believed them - I for one would have bet hard earned money against it ; I felt the anti's had the perfect storm and some kind of gun legislation was inevitable
It is important in life to take time and savor the good times- those special moments when you know you made a difference and were part of something bigger than yourself; this is one of those times
Do something to celebrate- have a party, go to a shooting event, have dinner with 2A friends, buy that rifle or handgun you have wanted for a long time; mark this event with something lasting that will serve to reinforce your resolve in the tough times
I have already had people on M4C and elsewhere thank me for my leadership in this recent crisis - I must say thanks goes to all of you for doing your part in defeating the biggest anti gun push in my lifetime
Well done everyone- well done
Celebrate then it's time to get back on point until the next time our constitutional rights are under attack
Be safe and stay the course
LAV
So when are you planning to run for office or NRA board so we can laugh when you tell your opponent that he/she is on the "short bus?" I'm ready to pull the lever. :D
Heavy Metal
04-18-13, 11:55
Eventually they are going to get another AWB as these gun related mass events occur over time and the only thing we can do as gun owners is to try to delay it for as long as possible.
1) These guns are far more common now and will be even more common in the future. The reason they pushed as hard as they did was they precieved a window of opportunity to ban these before they become too commonplace to prohibit. They failed.
2) These events have lost much of their shock value thru repeated exposure.
3) No only did they lose on the AWB, it wasn't even close! Contrasted with 1994, we are gaining, not losing ground on the federal level.
Never has a hostile President invested so much political capital and have so little to show for it. This was their perfect storm and they got stomped.
Except now we can't let up and need to keep pushing to get more pro-gun legislation through congress. With the mid-terms coming up next year this can be an ideal opportunity for the pro 2A crowd
1) These guns are far mor common now.
2) These events have lost much of their shock value thru repeated exposure.
3) No only did they lose on the AWB, it wasn't even close! Contrasted with 1994, we are gaining, not losing ground on the federal level.
Never has a hostile President invested so much political capital and have so little to show for it. This was their perfect storm and they got stomped.
Heavy Metal
04-18-13, 12:00
Can we stop laughing, joking and congratulating ourselves? Yes, we won a major battle, but it's one battle in a war. We've got a huge demographic shift that's about to hit
Yes we do but it ain't what you think!
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Poll-Young-Americans-Against-Banning-So-Called-Assault-Rifles
Of the 1,000 adults surveyed, 51 percent of respondents support the private ownership of “assault weapons,” while 44 percent were opposed. It may come as a shock to the public that the strongest advocates for private ownership are young Americans, the same age demographic that overwhelmingly supported the President in his reelection.
The poll found that 70 percent of young Americans ages 18-24 agree that Americans “should be allowed” to own "assault weapons," while only 27 percent believe they should be prohibited. A recent study conducted by American University also showed that 60 percent of young Americans either already plan to or are considering purchasing a firearm for their home in the future.
70 Percent!!!!!
Yes we do but it ain't what you think!
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Poll-Young-Americans-Against-Banning-So-Called-Assault-Rifles
70 Percent!!!!!
Video games aren't all bad.
Heavy Metal
04-18-13, 12:07
This is what I have been saying forever. The libs can squawk all they want in school, that indoctrination gets flushed 30 seconds after Johny gets home and fires up COD on his XBox. Johnny thinks more of his Xbox than what Ms. Hairypitsandlegs thinks of guns.
Video Games may end up saving our rights when it is all said and done.
FlyingHunter
04-18-13, 12:11
1) These guns are far more common now and will be even more common in the future. The reason they pushed as hard as they did was they precieved a window of opportunity to ban these before they become too commonplace to prohibit. They failed.
2) These events have lost much of their shock value thru repeated exposure.
3) No only did they lose on the AWB, it wasn't even close! Contrasted with 1994, we are gaining, not losing ground on the federal level.
Never has a hostile President invested so much political capital and have so little to show for it. This was their perfect storm and they got stomped.
Excellent points
Yes we do but it ain't what you think!
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Poll-Young-Americans-Against-Banning-So-Called-Assault-Rifles
70 Percent!!!!!
So this confirms my hypothosis that we are going to be fighting a constant battle until the Baby Boomers are out of power;)
I may be in the minority, but my previous posts over the last few months can attest that I never thought there was a real chance at anything big passing.
I follow this issue,politics, and the news very closely and couldnt imagine how anything could get through both houses in the current makeup
That being said, we MUST GET OUT AND VOTE in the midterms. Because if the dems get control of the house and senate we are done should another shooting happen.
We have to get out and VOTE IN STATE ELECTIONS too. I feel for you in NY, CT, MD, and CO and I dont want this crap coming to my state. This is where they will continue to attack and probably get some victories.
I may be in the minority, but my previous posts over the last few months can attest that I never thought there was a real chance at anything big passing.
Funny, I felt the same thing about Colorado not all that long ago. Things sure are different now.
brickboy240
04-18-13, 12:21
Remember which elected officials stood with us and which ones caved in.
People like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio need to be thanked.
People like John McCain and Linday Graham need to be replaced.
-brickboy240
Heavy Metal
04-18-13, 12:22
Some of the Democrat sell-outs in the Colorado state House and Senate are freshmen in rural districts. They barely won last november and were largely carried into power by the coattails of all the money Obama dumped in Colorado campaiging.
The Republicans controlled both houses prior to last November.
Colorado has a recall procedure in its Constution.
Folks, this is a soft target. If we unite and push hard, we can seriously hurt the Democrats in Colorado. The Colorado recall efforts should be our next effort.
If we can take a couple of scalps in the recalls, it will have a tremendous chilling effect nationwide on gun control.
Colorado is not yet lost, it is worth a hard fight. It should be our next priority.
Heavy Metal
04-18-13, 12:23
Remember which elected officials stood with us and which ones caved in.
People like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio need to be thanked.
People like John McCain and Linday Graham need to be replaced.
-brickboy240
Actually, Graham stood with us here.
So the national level fight has been mostly won (but we didnt get national reciprocity) for now... but it's no time to relax! State governments are still passing anti-gun legislation!
I like how the Obamites are touting Obama as a some sort of moral crusader for standing up for what he believed was right even in the face of such NRA backed opposition from day 1.
Priceless :D
diving dave
04-18-13, 12:47
I'm a happy camper too, but we cannot loose sight that the anti's are down but not out..You can be sure that the likes of Bloom-turd will be dumping big money to defeat the senators who voted no..MSNBC is already stating so..And as long as they have a friend in the White House, we must make our voices heard. And heard loud
IMHO, the future of our gun rights will depend on all gun owners voting in the upcoming elections, all gun owners donating money to the cause and all gun owners getting and keeping our young people involved in the shooting sports.
Actually, Graham stood with us here.
Indeed he did. So did Sen. Scott.
Graham did vote to end debate on the bill and force it to a vote. He rolled the dice on that or already knew how it would play out when he did it.
We now know, on the record, where each one of them stands.
Heavy Metal
04-18-13, 13:50
Frankly, I am glad a vote was forced, I was in favor of ending the fillibuster against debate for the very reason of what happened yesterday.
We have the bastards on record now and we know who our friends and enemies really are.
montanadave
04-18-13, 14:11
I'm a happy camper too, but we cannot loose sight that the anti's are down but not out..You can be sure that the likes of Bloom-turd will be dumping big money to defeat the senators who voted no..MSNBC is already stating so..And as long as they have a friend in the White House, we must make our voices heard. And heard loud
In several key states, the DNC and anti-gunners like Bloomberg are going to find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) is one of the more senior Democratic members in the Senate, is from a relatively conservative state which Romney carried easily last November, and voted against the Manchin-Toomey amendment.
As pissed as they may be at Baucus for not voting with the Democratic majority, if the anti-gunners go after Baucus by backing a more liberal Democrat, they virtually assure that the Democrats will lose a seat in the Senate. This same dynamic exists in several other states as well. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is a lousy way to try to even the score.
Funny, I felt the same thing about Colorado not all that long ago. Things sure are different now.
Big difference is that the Dems control both houses of the state congress in CO.
Even if any of this passed the Senate it was toast in the House. The fact that it didn't even make it that far is a double kick in the balls to the anti gunners and Obama.
My sympathies to you in CO. Hopefully it will get over turned.
xjustintimex
04-18-13, 22:20
will there be a special tac-tv episode dedicated to the victory with EXTRA southern thunder explosions? :D
I did celebrate a bit. I received an email from Rainier Arms that they had LMT Lowers in stock. Snatched one up right away. Now to decide what to do with it.
As tragic as the Boston Marathon bombings were I can easily see the Pres. and other Dems coming out with some kind of statement that the two terrorists obtained their guns very easily, gun shows etc, and that we need to tighten up access to weapons to keep them out of the hands of terrorist. Universal background checks would have kept weapons out of their hands etc. As their mantra states, Never let a crisis go to waste"!
One small victory is just that! We have to keep up the pressure.
They are sooooo mad :D
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/gun-debate-triggered-media-bias-90306.html
Ned Christiansen
04-19-13, 17:35
I just heard a piece on National Public Radio about how the NRA is one of the most, if not THE most, effective and nimble lobbying groups. They interviewed a (I think) congressional aide who said their phone calls went from 5 to 1 in favor to 5 to 1 against gun control, like overnight once the NRA put it in gear.
They mentioned that the NRA is pretty well funded. And we don't even have bazillionaires like Bloomberg / Soros et al! Yeah baby, that money, that strength, comes from a large number of people who give a rip. US!
Those calls and letters count..... NRA is our strident voice in DC..... my take on it. Join yesterday if you haven't already because no, it ain't over.
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