View Full Version : Which rail - DD or LaRue Tactical?
I'm trying to decide which rail to get. G&R has the LMT packages with either the DD 7.0 Lite rail, or the LaRue Tactical Rail. Is one significantly better than the other? I see that the LaRue rail is out at a lot of stores, while most have the DD rail in stock.
Can anyone post some pictures of these rails on their guns?
Thanks for the help.
militarymoron
03-25-08, 09:00
click here for pics of both:
http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.uppers.html
Soulrack223
03-25-08, 09:27
It doesn't matter IMO. I have both and both work great. They're better than the other rails on the market because of their quality and their weight. They weigh less than any other rails I've ever handled. I think DD are the lightest but the LaRue's aren't bad. Some of the ones on the market are ridiculously heavy and come lose.
The US Army uses the Daniel Defense 12.0 rail on their DMR.
Special Operations Command uses the Daniel Defense on their M4 and MK18 platforms.
I use the Daniel Defense Lite rail, and for all the reasons that SOCOM went with that system for the SOPMOD RIS II trials. With the recent DD Lite rail price reduction, I don't see much reason to use anything else with in a one piece rail.
...
I use the Daniel Defense Lite rail, and for all the reasons that SOCOM went with that system for the SOPMOD RIS II trials...
What reasons might those be?
I've used both.
I prefer the LT rails. Steel barrel nut, anti rotational setup, QD sling mount points.
Both companies make an excellent product and you won't be disappointed with either.
Ridge_Runner_5
03-25-08, 12:06
I like the Omega rail because of the extension on top that provides a seamless single rail with your A4 flattop upper reciever...
I like DD rails. Either the M4 or Lite.
I have had a chance to use a few different manufactures products and I keep coming back to Marks products, rock solid no wobble and pretty much maintenance free... plus they have the cool "Live Free or Die" on them..:D
[QUOTE=Stickman;143265]The US Army uses the Daniel Defense 12.0 rail on their DMR.
Special Operations Command uses the Daniel Defense on their M4 and MK18 platforms.
I use the Daniel Defense Lite rail, and for all the reasons that SOCOM went with that system for the SOPMOD RIS II trials. With the recent DD Lite rail price reduction, I don't see much reason to use anything else with in a one piece rail.[/QUOTEHum...
KOOLAIDE!!!!:D
I don't think you'll go wrong with either but I buy most everything from LaRue. Can't beat the service or the products in my opinion.
I do have an Omega rail for a Colt I didn't want to take apart. I still prefer LaRue.
Jay Cunningham
03-25-08, 19:08
LaRue makes a good rail but my preference is DD.
Special Operations Command uses the Daniel Defense on their M4 and MK18 platforms.
What size rails are they using for that? Thanks.
If I remember right the MK18 is a 10.5 inch barreled M4 made by Colt....
I, too, am exploring options for a new upper. Is rotation/loosening a concern with the DD Lite rail for vertical foregrip users? I really like the welded construction of DD rails, but so far have used LaRue rails exclusively because of the anti-rotation feature.
BushmasterFanBoy
03-26-08, 00:09
LaRue. Great quality and customer service.
But my biggest reasons are the fact that the lockup is 100% solid with the retention plate, not to mention the rail is very slim. With KAC panels, the thing feels like a set of CAR handguards.
foundtomorrow
03-26-08, 16:33
LaRue is a solid company with solid products.
I run an LT 7.0 and it hasn't given me any problems.
LaRue are great guys.
Robb Jensen
03-26-08, 16:43
I, too, am exploring options for a new upper. Is rotation/loosening a concern with the DD Lite rail for vertical foregrip users? I really like the welded construction of DD rails, but so far have used LaRue rails exclusively because of the anti-rotation feature.
I've installed over 50 or so DD Lite rails (I own 3 myself) and haven't had one single one come loose. The rail is bolted to it's receiver flange with 6 steel screws (that are Loc-Tited in place). Even if the rail were to come loose, the barrel will still be tight. The gas tube doesn't pass through the barrel nut as it does on a LaRue rail or Daniel Defense M4 rail (and most others).
I have both and like them both.
LT 9.0
LT 11.0
LT 12.0
DD OMEGA
DD MK18
:D
yes I'm a rail whore..:cool:
The gas tube doesn't pass through the barrel nut as it does on a LaRue rail or Daniel Defense M4 rail (and most others).
the gas tube does pass through the rail though... which is a very poor design...
the gas tube does pass through the rail though... which is a very poor design...
It doesn't if you send it to Adco firearms and have it modified.
Robb Jensen
03-28-08, 15:28
the gas tube does pass through the rail though... which is a very poor design...
And who has had a problem with this design?
And who has had a problem with this design?
I did when my red loctited gas block came loose and we wanted to pin the gasblock. So we modified mine so it could be taken off with the barrel still in place.
Robb Jensen
03-28-08, 18:07
I did when my red loctited gas block came loose and we wanted to pin the gasblock. So we modified mine so it could be taken off with the barrel still in place.
This is why I'd rather use a 'shaved' FSB (for a low-pro pinned gas block) instead of a set screwed low-pro gas block. Trickier to install but they don't come lose. ;)
saromans134
03-28-08, 18:50
Larue is on all my stuff and my significant friends, family and influential others. The customer service is just that good and they seem to stand for the right things. It does not hurt that they are fellow residents of the Central Texas area.:D
The LaRue vs DD is a 6 one way, half dozen the other type of decision. They are both top notch and both manufacturers stand by their products. It's probably best to determine which criteria and application you need to match your setup to and then select from there. Can't go wrong with either way though.
I like'em both. But Larue throws in a free hat and a Dillo :D
olds442tyguy
04-16-08, 16:56
I prefer Daniel Defense. You're not doing wrong either way, but I prefer the Lite Rail's features.
YukonGlocker
04-16-08, 18:53
Which one has the more narrow profile, side to side?
Which one has the more narrow profile, side to side?
Daniel Defense series (not my picture)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/DD-Dimensions.gif
Give me a DD M4A1 FSP any day of the week.
IMO: It is the most functional & unmatched quality rail system on the market today.
They are both great rails. I have the DD lite rail and the one suggestions I would make is to make sure your gas block is not covered by the rail if you are using the DD. When installing the DD you have to put the rail on before the gas block. This makes it a pain to install the gas block if it has to go under the rail. It makes it extremely difficult to install the gas block if it uses anything but set screws.
They are both great rails. I have the DD lite rail and the one suggestions I would make is to make sure your gas block is not covered by the rail if you are using the DD. When installing the DD you have to put the rail on before the gas block. This makes it a pain to install the gas block if it has to go under the rail. It makes it extremely difficult to install the gas block if it uses anything but set screws.
Unless you have Steve at http://adcofirearms.com modify the lightrail so you can remove or install it right over the gas block.
decodeddiesel
04-18-08, 14:26
Unless you have Steve at http://adcofirearms.com modify the lightrail so you can remove or install it right over the gas block.
Could you PM me with the cost of that? Thanks.
Considering that both manufactures are top shelf, I would decide based upon weight.
Anyone know where a chart or any type of weight comparison can be found?
I previously used Larue's, but recently switched to the DD Lite rails. I personally like them much better.
decodeddiesel
04-21-08, 10:02
I previously used Larue's, but recently switched to the DD Lite rails. I personally like them much better.
Could you elaborate a little more? I am on the cusp of ordering either a DD Lite 9 or a LT 9.
Gentle Ben
04-21-08, 10:46
I have a DD on one 10.5" LMT upper and a Larue on another 10.5" LMT upper. I like them both, but the Larue has loosened up on me twice.
The first time the Larue loosened, it was the barrel nut, which required a complete teardown of the upper; the 2nd time (this weekend during a 2-day, 1k-round carbine course) it was the retaining sleeve over the barrel nut that worked loose.
On the Larue, I can't get the holes in the barrel nut tight and at the same time have it properly aligned with the gas tube. If it's tight, the holes for the gas tube fall on either side of the hole in the receiver. I think I'm going to take it apart again, drill out the section of the barrel nut where the gas tube passes through so I can torque it down hard, then loc-tite the crap out of everything before putting it back together. :p It's an inconvenience, but not a deal-breaker. I like Larue products...there's clearly some brains behind the design.
The DD-mounted upper hasn't given me any issues, but it also hasn't seen anywhere near the same # of rounds as the Larue-mounted upper.
usaffarmer
04-22-08, 00:52
just ordered a new DD lite rail from G&R not more than 1 hour ago. Having a limited buget, I chose to replace my surefire rail which works fine but seems to creep from side to side while shooting.
The reason i went with a DD lite rail is i installed one on an sbr today and was very very impressed with it. A very solid system.
The first time the Larue loosened, it was the barrel nut, which required a complete teardown of the upper; the 2nd time (this weekend during a 2-day, 1k-round carbine course) it was the retaining sleeve over the barrel nut that worked loose.
I am not trying to be a dick here (it comes naturally) but how does a barrel nut come loose when the gas tube is going through it?
i have read through this and other threads several times and cant make up my mind between the two as well. i wish there was someone in ga who had both on rifles so i could look at the two.
I have a DD on one 10.5" LMT upper and a Larue on another 10.5" LMT upper. I like them both, but the Larue has loosened up on me twice.
The first time the Larue loosened, it was the barrel nut, which required a complete teardown of the upper; the 2nd time (this weekend during a 2-day, 1k-round carbine course) it was the retaining sleeve over the barrel nut that worked loose.
On the Larue, I can't get the holes in the barrel nut tight and at the same time have it properly aligned with the gas tube. If it's tight, the holes for the gas tube fall on either side of the hole in the receiver. I think I'm going to take it apart again, drill out the section of the barrel nut where the gas tube passes through so I can torque it down hard, then loc-tite the crap out of everything before putting it back together. :p It's an inconvenience, but not a deal-breaker. I like Larue products...there's clearly some brains behind the design.
The DD-mounted upper hasn't given me any issues, but it also hasn't seen anywhere near the same # of rounds as the Larue-mounted upper.
I would suggest shims instead of drilling out the hole. This will also allow you to keep the rail aligned with your upper. I have also shaved the inside of the barrel nut on my lathe when I couldn't find a shim. You can't blame the rail because you didn't get the barrel nut tight.
I have a DD on one 10.5" LMT upper and a Larue on another 10.5" LMT upper. I like them both, but the Larue has loosened up on me twice.
The first time the Larue loosened, it was the barrel nut, which required a complete teardown of the upper; the 2nd time (this weekend during a 2-day, 1k-round carbine course) it was the retaining sleeve over the barrel nut that worked loose.
On the Larue, I can't get the holes in the barrel nut tight and at the same time have it properly aligned with the gas tube. If it's tight, the holes for the gas tube fall on either side of the hole in the receiver. I think I'm going to take it apart again, drill out the section of the barrel nut where the gas tube passes through so I can torque it down hard, then loc-tite the crap out of everything before putting it back together. :p It's an inconvenience, but not a deal-breaker. I like Larue products...there's clearly some brains behind the design.
The DD-mounted upper hasn't given me any issues, but it also hasn't seen anywhere near the same # of rounds as the Larue-mounted upper.
You need to tighten that LaRue nut to the next hole. Tighten/Loosen until you get there.
Gentle Ben
04-22-08, 08:39
I am not trying to be a dick here (it comes naturally) but how does a barrel nut come loose when the gas tube is going through it?
No problem...I should have been more clear. Obviously it didn't come completely loose; it loosened to the point that there was play in it, and with my hand on the VFG, the entire fore-end would rotate a few degrees right/left until it was stopped by the gas tube.
When I first installed the rail, I couldn't get the barrel nut as tight as it needed to be while at the same time getting the holes to line up. When it was tight, the holes in the barrel nut were on either side of the hole in the receiver. I backed it off just enough for one hole to line up. It still felt tight, but it loosened under fire.
Comp- you mean torque it down, loosen, and repeat until basically I've stretched the threads far enough to get to that next hole?
I had it in my bench vise, and put quite a bit of weight into torquing it down. I was concerned that I'd break something or strip the threads.
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 09:30
Well Ben honestly your posts are about the only thing which gives me a moment of pause when considering the La Rue rail.
I have another question, which seems to have been answered before, but it is still unclear. I would like to keep my pinned gas block by means of shaving down my FSB. simply considering dimensions and assembly procedure is this possible with both rails? Is it easier on one rather than the other. I know someone said "send your DD rail into ADCO for modifications and your shaved FSB will work". Well, what modifications might that be? Will the shaved FSB work on the LaRue? If so could someone post a picture of how much they shaved it?
Thanks.
Gentle Ben
04-22-08, 09:41
Even if you shaved your FSB down, you'd still need to disassemble the upper, as you have to remove the existing barrel nut and replace it with the one that comes with the DD or Larue kit. Also, the gas tube needs to pass through the barrel nut.
Also, I wouldn't let my posts dissuade you from the Larue. THey make great products. I think my problems are an isolated occurence, considering the # of Larue rails on the market. I may have made a mistake when installing, or I may have simply gotten one with the threads or holes slightly off. Whatever it is, it's fixable.
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 09:49
Even if you shaved your FSB down, you'd still need to disassemble the upper, as you have to remove the existing barrel nut and replace it with the one that comes with the DD or Larue kit. Also, the gas tube needs to pass through the barrel nut.
Also, I wouldn't let my posts dissuade you from the Larue. THey make great products. I think my problems are an isolated occurence, considering the # of Larue rails on the market. I may have made a mistake when installing, or I may have simply gotten one with the threads or holes slightly off. Whatever it is, it's fixable.
Yes I am aware of the assembly procedure, however the provisions for a pinned gas block are not part of the given standard procedure.
Comp- you mean torque it down, loosen, and repeat until basically I've stretched the threads far enough to get to that next hole?
Yes. You do this three times and on the final time, you settle in on the correct alignment position.
If you are not doing this, then that is why your barrel nut is coming loose.
C4
Gentle Ben
04-22-08, 10:30
Yes I am aware of the assembly procedure, however the provisions for a pinned gas block are not part of the given standard procedure.
You could probably get away with un-pinning the gas tube from the block, and leaving the block in place. When the barrel nut is removed, the barrel assy can be pulled out of the receiver, and everything can be removed/installed from the chamber end of the barrel. The rail itself should fit right over the gas block, so no worries there. ( Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know. )
And thanks folks for the suggestions on how to resolve my issue, even though it slightly hijacked this thread.
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 10:42
You could probably get away with un-pinning the gas tube from the block, and leaving the block in place. When the barrel nut is removed, the barrel assy can be pulled out of the receiver, and everything can be removed/installed from the chamber end of the barrel. The rail itself should fit right over the gas block, so no worries there. ( Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know. )
OK thanks Ben, thats what I was thinking as well. I suppose this isn't really a hijack as it is part of the functionality and therefor comparability of these 2 rail systems. Now to figure out how to make a DD Lite work with a pinned gas block.
Gentle Ben
04-22-08, 10:45
by the way NIN is the SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 10:51
by the way NIN is the SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!
I completely agree (as does SuicideHZ) but now thats a Hijack! :D
Now to figure out how to make a DD Lite work with a pinned gas block.
If you have a barrel aleady set up for pins it is not much of a problem to use the Literail. My problem and the one we fixed by modifying the Literail was my red loctited set screw in a dimple gasblock came loose twice from the heat of the suppressor. So on my (before I sold it) Lite Rail we modified it by removing some material on the back so it could slide over the gasblock without having to remove the whole barrel assembly. It is not a big deal to do this.
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 14:06
...on my Lite Rail we modified it by removing some material on the back so it could slide over the gasblock without having to remove the whole barrel assembly. It is not a big deal to do this...
Cool, this is basically the exact thing I was thinking of with the DD.
Robb Jensen
04-22-08, 14:17
Now to figure out how to make a DD Lite work with a pinned gas block.
Not hard, just tricky.
'Shave' the FSB into a ultra low-pro gas block about like this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/881e696c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/adfe3166.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/dd656eec.jpg
Install the gas tube on the gas block and install it's pin. Slide the rail onto the upper and start the gas tube and block onto the barrel and move the rail around until you can tap in the taper pins.
Here you can see the front pin on the now lo-pro gas block.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/81763d4c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/0e139b50.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/38959473.jpg
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 14:27
Oh OK! I think I see now. The "shaving" the gas block is no problem, I have access to a small machine shop at my work, as well as a dremel tool at home. But from your pics I think I understand how you drove in the pins...you basically used the vent holes on the rail to "get at" the pins if I am seeing this correctly. Great I the DD 9 Lite is the way to go. Kind of a pain you have to order their own proprietary wrench to install the barrel nut but thats OK. Thanks for the help gotm4!
I dont know the procedure to install one and i'm a little concerned with keeping this as close to stock as possible or keeping the parts to get it back that way. I have read that the delta ring has to be cut? I absolutely love the way gotm4 has his rifle set up but I'm worried about shaving the fsb, maybe I should buy another one and keep the colt one in the parts box? I am considering just getting grant to do this since I'm ordering from him. I know a few guys with machine shops though I probably have all I need besides the wrench, but I'm very wary of trying to do this alone, though it would be so simpler. I had decided on the 7" dd but after seeing gotm4's up close now I'm considering mimicking his setup. advice, comments, please
decodeddiesel
04-22-08, 15:26
I dont know the procedure to install one and i'm a little concerned with keeping this as close to stock as possible or keeping the parts to get it back that way. I have read that the delta ring has to be cut? I absolutely love the way gotm4 has his rifle set up but I'm worried about shaving the fsb, maybe I should buy another one and keep the colt one in the parts box? I am considering just getting grant to do this since I'm ordering from him. I know a few guys with machine shops though I probably have all I need besides the wrench, but I'm very wary of trying to do this alone, though it would be so simpler. I had decided on the 7" dd but after seeing gotm4's up close now I'm considering mimicking his setup. advice, comments, please
You do not have to cut the delta ring, you just have to remove it. The only original part you would have to modify is the FSB.
You are going to have a heck of a time getting another FSB to line up with the original. You're probably going to have to jig and re-drill the indentation. This is the downfall to a pinned gas block. If you're that worried about it I would just get a good quality gas block (read La Rue, Noveske, DD, Vtlor) and not worry about chopping up your FSB.
well I think my best choice would be 7" and not modify atm. I may later. thanks for your input everyone.
Robb Jensen
04-22-08, 16:43
You can also pin aftermarket gas blocks like LaRue and VLTOR. If getting one to go on a barrel that previously had a FSB I'd recommend a long one like the LaRue which will cover both holes in the barrel.
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