View Full Version : School Me on the different H&K triggers
I have been mulling over purchasing an HK 45C just for something different. I have never owned any type of .45 other than the Colt Government style models (have several), although I do currently carry a Kahr PM45. I carried either a Commander or Officers Model for 30+ years before the PM45.
I have read what I can find on the DA/SA, LEM, V1, etc. but since I have never tried any of them, what is the prefered version? Is there a 'laymans' list of basics of each one?
For use it will mostly be plinking, target shooting, and carrying around my property to dispatch critters.
I finally got a reply from H&K on their LE/Military program and my next step is to find the nearest dealer that one available.
The Variant one is DA/SA and allows for cocked.and locked carry like the 1911.
If you prefer cocked and locked carry, you will probably want to convert the gun to a V9 which removes the decock ability. Those of us that ride the thumb safety hard sometimes activate the decocker without wanting to.
The LEM variants can be used in conjunction with the safety as well, I am currently experimenting with this. I like the set up as I was getting a lot of debris in the hammer channel of my gun when carried IWB, lots of cotton fuzzies. Being able to carry hammer down lessesn debris in the hammer channel.
The LEM is kind of hard to explain. It really is a mix of DA/SA and SAO while being DAO....
The slide cocks the mechanism, but the hammer rests hammer down. The trigger travel to break is long like a DA 1st shot, but is the same weight to trip the sear as a single action shot. On reset, the hammer does NOT travel fully forward and resets like a SA follow up shot, but if you release the trigger the hammer returns to the rest position with no need (or ability) to de-cock.
The trigger weight is the same for every shot, but trigger travel-wise mimics a DA/SA.
The LEM comes in different weights based on hammer spring, trigger return spring, and firing pin block spring.
I am currently using a heavy trigger return spring suns hammer spring along with the light firing pin block spring in conjunction with a match flat (sear) spring and am pretty happy with it so far.
Most guns you will find for sale will be the V1 variant, there lots of info out there on how to convert it to LEM and the V1 to V9 conversion is very simple.
Sent via Tapatalk 2, and still using real words.
Also,
If you're not sure what variant you want but want to try different ones, what I would probably recommend is buying a used Hk45 from one of the forums (if you stalk them you'll find them coming up for sale) that was a V1 turned LEM (V7) that still has the V1 parts for you to revert to if you don't like the LEM.
Here's the break down of the HK45 and 45C variants:
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/jdlv4_0/HK45variants.png
Very much appreciated JD!!! That was what I was looking for in a response. HK's trigger terminology is quite complicated to sort through (at least for me). I do have other DA/SA firearms but most of them are used for target and plinking use. I have always carried the stereo typical 1911 and recently changed to the Kahr PM45 and found it was an easy move as far as getting used to the different type of action. I really like the little PM45, light, reliable, and scarry accurate for its size. I am just wanting something bigger for outdoors type carry.
I had also looked at the FN FNX Tactical but seem to read more positive reviews on the HK.
Thanks again.
Keith
Very much appreciated JD!!! That was what I was looking for in a response. HK's trigger terminology is quite complicated to sort through (at least for me). I do have other DA/SA firearms but most of them are used for target and plinking use. I have always carried the stereo typical 1911 and recently changed to the Kahr PM45 and found it was an easy move as far as getting used to the different type of action. I really like the little PM45, light, reliable, and scarry accurate for its size. I am just wanting something bigger for outdoors type carry.
I had also looked at the FN FNX Tactical but seem to read more positive reviews on the HK.
Thanks again.
Keith
You're welcome.
If you like the safety-less ops of the Kahr, you should really like the LEM, talk to your local dealers and they should be able to order one, other wise if you're just looking to pick up what's available you'll probably end up buying a V1.
A lot of guys order theirs from Cross Creek Guns (http://crosscreekguns.com/HK45.html), but he looks to be out of stock at the moment.
LEM = Da $hit.........that's really all ya need to know. :lol:
Another +1 for the LEM trigger. I was hooked the first time I shot an HK with the LEM trigger and I now own a P30 LEM variant. The trigger has a decent amount of travel to it but I find it's far easier to pull than a traditional DA and the break is similar to a SA pull.
Sounds like the LEM is the 'go to' trigger. Now all I need to do is find a dealer that has one to sample. Unfortunately I have to spend half the year in the DC area and the other half is spent in the deep woods where it is currently a$$ deep in the white crap!!!
JD, Cross Creek looks to have good prices. Unfortunately they are out of stock.
I like the regular DA/SA with decocker.
The manual safety worked well on the 1911 but nobody else really got it right after that.
The LEM is just weird and not many people do very well with it.
The safety with decocker version just has too much going on, one or the other.
H&K just doesn't put out a what most consider a good trigger. Usable with plenty of practice, but not nice.
Best advice is to explore any opportunity to try the LEM before you buy it. From browsing here, there, and the HK forums, the prevailing opinions seem to be either love it or hate it. It is a unique mechanism among handguns, and it would be unfortunate if you bought it on the advice of the crowd that rages about it, and then you hated it. Regardless, if you get the 45c, the hk45, or the P30, you will not be disappointed with the ergos and reliability. They're great guns. Best of luck.
The first time I shot a LEM variant P30L I shot my first expert score on the IDPA classifier with the fewer points down than my previous shoots. :neo:
Not saying that everyone will pick up the gun and run it well but I did with just a few rounds on a plate rack before the match started. I was sold then and there.
A lot of people report needing 200-300rds through the gun before they find their groove. In all fairness I needed that many rounds to get used to the gun in SAO mode.
As for the DA/SA with decocker only, that's an easy conversion as well, just a different type of detent plate.
Detent plates run about $12-$17 and take about 6 minutes to change.
On of the things I like most about the gun is being able to make it a DA/SA, SAO, DAO etc.
Another LEM fan here. I've converted five of my V1 USPs to light LEM and also purchased a factory LEM USP 9mm.
If you want a HK with a DA/SA trigger but aren't impressed with the standard V1 trigger, I would look for a Tactical model with the match DA/SA trigger.
Coal Dragger
04-20-13, 23:11
Frankly I don't understand why HK doesn't just install their match trigger group in all the V1 guns. The triggers are still not exactly light or silly in their engagement or reset.
Instead they continue to put in a mediocre trigger, on what is otherwise a superb pistol. One that is priced like a superb pistol at that. So why not put a trigger in it from the factory that is up to the rest of the pistol? The HK45, P30, USP family are not competitive on price with the Glock, M&P, or some others so they might as well be better if they're gonna cost more.
Frankly I don't understand why HK doesn't just install their match trigger group in all the V1 guns. The triggers are still not exactly light or silly in their engagement or reset.
Instead they continue to put in a mediocre trigger, on what is otherwise a superb pistol. One that is priced like a superb pistol at that. So why not put a trigger in it from the factory that is up to the rest of the pistol? The HK45, P30, USP family are not competitive on price with the Glock, M&P, or some others so they might as well be better if they're gonna cost more.
Answer that and how many licks it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop and you will be able to answer all the world's questions.:D
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