Inherited Full Autos

[DoubleJ]

I've gotten two similar phone calls from friends recently asking me what to do with the NFA weapons they found in the basement when dad died. One is an old Browning BAR I think, the other is a street sweeper. I have no idea what to tell them, full autos are too rich for my wallet.

[Inkslinger]

Tell them to invest in an airtight container and a shovel.

[5POINT56]

Tell them to invest in an airtight container and a shovel.

^^^ LOL!!!!!! :sarcastic:

[jack crab]

From the NFA Handbook:

9.5.3 Distribution of estate firearms.
A decedent’s registered NFA firearms may be conveyed tax-exempt to lawful heirs. These distributions arenot treated as voluntary “transfers” under the NFA. Rather, they are considered to be involuntary “transfers by operation of law.” Under this concept, ATF will honor State court decisions relative to the ownership and right to possess NFA firearms. So, when State courts authorize the distribution of estate firearms to decedents’ lawful heirs, ATF will approve the distribution and registration
to the heirs if the transactions are otherwise lawful. A lawful heir is anyone named in the decedent’s will or, in the absence of a will, anyone entitled to inherit under the laws of the State in which the decedent last resided.

9.5.3.3 Uncertainty about the registration status of decedents’ firearms

In some cases, an executor or administrator of anestate may be uncertain whether the decedent’s firearms are registered to the decedent in the NFRTR. Perhaps the executor or administrator is unable to locate the decedent’s registration documents. As discussed in Section 9.2, if the decedent’s firearms are not registered to
him/her in the NFRTR, the firearms are contraband and may not be lawfully possessed or transferred. If the executor or administrator cannot locate the decedent’s registration documents, he/she should contact the NFA Branch in writing and inquire about thefirearms’ registration status. This inquiry should be accompanied by documents showing the executor’s or administrator’s authority under State law to represent the decedent and dispose of the decedent’s firearms. Although ATF is generally prohibited from disclosing tax information, including the identity of persons to whom NFA firearms are registered, ATF may disclose such information to persons lawfully representing registrants of NFA firearms.

9.5.3.4 Unregistered estate firearms.
Should an estate contain NFA firearms not registered to the decedent, these firearms are contraband that may not be lawfully possessed or transferred. Where these are found within an estate, the executor or administrator should contact his/her local ATF office and arrange for their disposal.

[Noodles]

If they didn't have papers right next to them, most likely they are not in the registry. I would probably disassemble down to the receivers and call ATF to check status. If they are in the registry, great, transfer. If they are not, turn the receivers in to ATF and sell the parts.

Tricky to do anything else because now there is a record of it on the internets, if you or your "friends" ever get questioned about it. Without ever mentioning it, maybe a shovel wouldn't best the worst idea in the world.

[Bret]

Tell them to invest in an airtight container and a shovel.
... and wait for the next ATF amnesty.

[DoubleJ]

Funny you should mention burying them, I pretty much told them both to stop sending pictures of them to people, hide them in the basement, and gimme a minute to find out the info.

The gub-ment can question all they want, sometimes I forget stuff...

Jack, so am I to understand that in 1986, all Americans holding full-auto or 'no sporting purpose' firearms had to voluntarily register them, or they became illegal on the spot? Who was president back then, Bloomburg?

[VaeVictis]

My uncle owned a street sweeper and the ATF came knockin as soon as they heard about it. Here in Illinois the only way to own something like that is to have a curio and relics license. He wasn't really a gun guy so he never kept up with the laws and the ATF snatched it before he could get the license. I had thought about buying it too but I wasn't sure what the legalities of buying it from someone without the proper license would be. It's a shame it's in the hands of the ATF now it was a bad ass gun and it had one of the old school red dot sights on it.

[Iraqgunz]

Let's stop all the stupid nonsense. You need to have your "friends" locate the paperwork if it exists. If it doesn't then you either contact the NFA branch to verify the status or you strip them down and sell the parts. That's pretty much it.

[jack crab]

Funny you should mention burying them, I pretty much told them both to stop sending pictures of them to people, hide them in the basement, and gimme a minute to find out the info.

The gub-ment can question all they want, sometimes I forget stuff...

Jack, so am I to understand that in 1986, all Americans holding full-auto or 'no sporting purpose' firearms had to voluntarily register them, or they became illegal on the spot? Who was president back then, Bloomburg?

The registry has existed since 1934. Everything should have been registered since that time.

My understanding is that one could register items after 1934. WWII, Korean, or VN war trophies, and new manufacture.

The United States Supreme Court, in 1968 decided the case of Haynes v. United States in favor of the defendant, which effectively gutted the National Act of 1934. As one could possess an NFA firearm and choose not to register it, and not face prosecution due to Fifth Amendment protections, the 1934 Act was unenforceable. To deal with this, Congress rewrote the Act to make registration of existing impossible except by the government (previously, an existing firearm could be registered by any citizen). In addition to fixing the defect identified in Haynes, the revision tightened definitions of the regulated by the Act, as well as incorporating a new category of firearm, the Destructive Device, which was first regulated in the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968. This revision is known as the National Act of 1968 to differentiate it from the NFA of 1934, which is a different (and now void) law.

In 1971, the Supreme Court reexamined the NFA in the Freed case and found that the 1968 amendments cured the constitutional defect in the original NFA.

The Firearm Owners’ Protection Act of 1986: On May 19, 1986, as part of the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act (“FOPA”), Congress banned the transfer and possession of machine guns with two exceptions:

Machine guns that were lawfully possessed prior to May 19, 1986 may continue to be possessed and transferred provided they are registered in accordance with requirements of the National Firearms Act of 1934 (“NFA”).

Machine guns may be transferred to or by, or possessed by or under the authority of, the federal government or a state, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.

Unless I am mistaken, that would have been President Reagan vice Bloomberg.

[Ryno12]

...what to do with the NFA weapons they found in the basement when dad died. One is an old Browning BAR I think, the other is a street sweeper.

I wish I had problems like that. :rolleyes:

Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk 2

[CleverNickname]

If it's a Street Sweeper it's unlikely to be full auto. It's a destructive device and regulated similarly to a machine gun, but it's not full auto.

If someone were to remove and get rid of the barrel, the Street Sweeper would no longer have a >.5" bore, and therefore would no longer be a destructive device, just a title I firearm. Then it could be registered on a form 1 and a new barrel attached, if desired. Of course, finding the registration paperwork, if it exists, would be best.

As for found machine guns, this is the best process I've read of: "So you found a machine gun in the attic" (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/322347_So_you_found_an_MG_in_the_attic______.html)

[DoubleJ]

Thanks for all the information, everyone. I'll pass it on and they can make the call as far as what they want to do. And everyone can skip the quotes around "friends"...I may be a pain in the ass, but my dad's not dead, and if they were my hardware I'd call a class 3 dealer from a payphone with these questions. Well, if I could find a payphone, not sure if they're still out there.

[Hop]

We had a thread like this on a local board a couple years ago. An SOT stepped in and gave some good info. Might be worth a read:
http://ingunowners.com/forums/class_iii_nfa/112104-i_found_a_machinegun_in_grandmas_attic.html