View Full Version : Sealant between carrier and key?
This isn't really a pressing question but wanted to know if anyone else has seen this. Buddy brought me another upper to work on......and it came with an R Guns BCG. Yeah yeah.
Anyway this BCG is brand new never fired and I know it has not been tampered with. As per norm for me lately every new carrier I get I sand down the rails with 600 grit sandpaper. Helps smooth the action out a little. While sanding down the left side of the BCG where the carrier & key mate up I noticed it looked like some sort of sealant has been placed between them. In the pic you may be able to see it sandwiched between the two parts. You can definitely see the over run on the rear portion of the key.
Just another observation of lower standard guns. If you need a sealant to keep gas from escaping and can't just rely on the tolerances of each part them that says something.
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/IMG_20130420_181910_364_zps0a3ca14e.jpg
-Jax
I bought one (ashamed) of the NiB Rguns BCG. I can't take a pic of it at the moment but it didn't have anything like that.
I was actually quite surprised... it looked really good. But I'm not going to put any faith in it. It's simply just a spare.
I love the Rguns policy -- I called, e-mailed, even wrote a letter. I couldn't get any answer when I attempted to cancel my order.
Just about a week ago... it magically appeared in the mail. (I ordered it the first week of Feb)
That was originally part of the Mil-Spec requirement...
Not only was the Key supposed to be staked, but permatex was used to ensure a good seal... :eek:
That was originally part of the Mil-Spec requirement...
Not only was the Key supposed to be staked, but permatex was used to ensure a good seal... :eek:
If that's true I wasn't aware of that. Thanks,
-Jax
Although it was part of the original requirement, I wasn't aware anyone was still doing it besides Young Manufacturing...:confused:
So this stuff is permatex?? I scraped the rest off the side of the carrier key and it had a dark red color to it.
-Jax
That could be what they have used... I think my Bolt Carriers from Young had small amounts of Red around the Key... but not enough to interfere with function...
I pulled out an Marine Corp Technical Manuel from l984 and this step was omitted... So most manufacturers probably delete it from their process as well..
polymorpheous
04-20-13, 21:09
I thought some manufacturers used Rockset.
Are you referring to Rockset applied to the Screws...? I don't know about that, but originally a sealant was used between the Carrier and Key to ensure a positive seal... ( Often Permatex )
Young still uses a sealant, and until now, I was unaware of any other manufactures that still followed this process...
Dave Berryhill
04-20-13, 22:01
I've got copies of the Colt armorer's manuals from the 1990s and I recall it mentioned the use of a Permatex product under the carrier key.
Dave and others, Thanks I appreciate the info. Learn something new everyday. :)
-Jax
Dave Berryhill
04-23-13, 10:54
I was curious so I looked it up in my manual (Colt Armorer/Depot Maintenance and Repair Manual, No. CM102 dated 1991) and it spec'd Permatex #3D Aviation form-a-gasket as a sealing compound for the carrier key.
I don't know if this is the current procedure or not. Obviously many manufacturers don't use anything to seal the key. Hell, some haven't even figured out how to properly stake it!
Although it was part of the original requirement, I wasn't aware anyone was still doing it besides Young Manufacturing...:confused:
Rubber City Armory does.
I lap, seal, torque, and stake every carrier key. :confused:
I even take a little lapping compound and give the inside of the key a q-tip mini lap to make sure it's smooth, burr free, and it doesnt start eating up the gas tube.
I lap, seal, torque, and stake every carrier key. :confused:
I even take a little lapping compound and give the inside of the key a q-tip mini lap to make sure it's smooth, burr free, and it doesnt start eating up the gas tube.
markm,
You are the bolt carrier Michaelangelo of our time.
-Jax
I was curious so I looked it up in my manual (Colt Armorer/Depot Maintenance and Repair Manual, No. CM102 dated 1991) and it spec'd Permatex #3D Aviation form-a-gasket as a sealing compound for the carrier key.
I don't know if this is the current procedure or not. Obviously many manufacturers don't use anything to seal the key. Hell, some haven't even figured out how to properly stake it!
Dave thanks for taking the time to go through that. I would be curious to know who still does this. Thanks again,
-Jax
markm,
You are the bolt carrier Michaelangelo of our time.
-Jax
I actually started doing this when I saw that the machinist at Scottsdale Gun Club repaired mine this way.
I had a broken key bolt... another guy I know took the carrier to him. When I got it back he'd used sealant under the key. I'd read about it but thought it might be overkill.
I actually started doing this when I saw that the machinist at Scottsdale Gun Club repaired mine this way.
I had a broken key bolt... another guy I know took the carrier to him. When I got it back he'd used sealant under the key. I'd read about it but thought it might be overkill.
That probably came off wrong markm since I didn't use any fancy emoticons.
No sarcasm meant brother and yeah I'd definitely do the same if I ever had to deal with taking the key off the carrier in the future.
-Jax
Oh I know.... I didn't take it the wrong way. ;)
Crazy Chuckster
04-23-13, 22:40
I lap, seal, torque, and stake every carrier key. :confused:
I even take a little lapping compound and give the inside of the key a q-tip mini lap to make sure it's smooth, burr free, and it doesnt start eating up the gas tube.
Good info, I may just have to give that a try!
I have a NIG colt BCG that has goop dripping out.
I have a NIG colt BCG that has goop dripping out.
That's NAM juice.
When building hundreds of BCGs at LMT we never used anything on keys just bolt and stake, and that's what I still go by and never had any issues.
When building hundreds of BCGs at LMT we never used anything on keys just bolt and stake, and that's what I still go by and never had any issues.
Shocking that a company who used MIM gas keys at one point would also not seal. :rolleyes:
LMT cuts a lot of corners and that's why I don't use any of their products in critical areas.
I have been repairing AR-15s for several years and did not know I was suppose to be using sealant. They did not mention it when I went through armorer school and I haven't seen an issue caused by not using sealant.
The machining looked pretty rough on some of the M-16s our agency received from the Department of the Army. You have to wonder if the parts were not as precise or fit as well when Colt published you should use sealant.
Outstanding good for u markm
Outstanding good for u markm
Thanks... I mean... people like the stuff, but why bother when you can get BCM for equal or less money, and it's done to spec. Makes zero sense to me. :confused:
I have been repairing AR-15s for several years and did not know I was suppose to be using sealant. They did not mention it when I went through armorer school and I haven't seen an issue caused by not using sealant.
Most people don't know it. And if the surfaces are smooth, it's not an absolute must.
Magic_Salad0892
04-29-13, 14:08
Shocking that a company who used MIM gas keys at one point would also not seal. :rolleyes:
LMT cuts a lot of corners and that's why I don't use any of their products in critical areas.
You say LMT cuts corners, but have you ever seen a catastrophic failure from an LMT gun as the result of their manufacturing techniques?
I understand your sentiments, but like KAC not using HPT, in LMT's case it seems to work well. (Especially considering that their Enhanced bolt was the only one that survived the military trial.)
You say LMT cuts corners, but have you ever seen a catastrophic failure from an LMT gun as the result of their manufacturing techniques?
No. But the same can be said about Bushmaster and many of the other non-spec aftermarket options really. I've never seen a Bushy blow up. I own an old bushy, but I wouldn't buy another with BCM costing the same price, but being made to spec.
If you own an LMT, you've got a pretty good gun. They aren't garbage. They just choose to short cut here and there.
Magic_Salad0892
04-29-13, 14:26
No. But the same can be said about Bushmaster and many of the other non-spec aftermarket options really. I've never seen a Bushy blow up. I own an old bushy, but I wouldn't buy another with BCM costing the same price, but being made to spec.
If you own an LMT, you've got a pretty good gun. They aren't garbage. They just choose to short cut here and there.
Apples and oranges. Bushmasters are documented pieces of shit, and their malfunctions are pretty common. I can't even think of a single time I've heard of an LMT having a premature parts breakage. Bushmaster? Not so much.
I use LMT carriers (with MIM gas key) and they've been great for me.
Perhaps they aren't good comparisons, but the point is still that I've never seen one blow up.... and neither bushmaster or LMT follow the TDP.
Running either of them is illogical with BCM or DD as an option.
Its a requirement though I have never used it and never had an issue.
Magic_Salad0892
04-29-13, 15:47
Perhaps they aren't good comparisons, but the point is still that I've never seen one blow up.... and neither bushmaster or LMT follow the TDP.
Running either of them is illogical with BCM or DD as an option.
I can see your point, but I do believe that there are parts that don't follow the TDP that are just as good or better than mil spec. LMT bolt carriers, KAC bolts/barrels, KAC/AXTS ambi lowers, Noveske barrels, Centurion barrels, or VLTOR A5/MUR uppers for example.
Some of which you yourself advocate.
It comes down to track record, in my opinion. Plus, LMT has a reputation for how they test their products before they're released.
I have never used anything more than red loc-tite and properly staking the screws with a MOACKS and not one has ever had an issue.
I have never used anything more than red loc-tite and properly staking the screws with a MOACKS and not one has ever had an issue.
The only reason I'm gun shy about Red Loctite is that I've had a carrier key fastener break. The loctite would make removal of the remaining portion of the fastener that much harder to remove.
I know odds are against that ever happening again.. but. :confused:
Littlelebowski
04-30-13, 08:53
The only reason I'm gun shy about Red Loctite is that I've had a carrier key fastener break. The loctite would make removal of the remaining portion of the fastener that much harder to remove.
I know odds are against that ever happening again.. but. :confused:
Can't you just heat it up?
Can't you just heat it up?
I'm a little funny about applying that much heat to gun parts. Makes me nervous.
FYI Permatex used to be a material used - the name was sold by Loctite to another company and the current Permatex is not a weapons part gasket material - its more of a rubbery goo that never seals.
It blows out a lot, and results in a lot of carrier key leaks.
IF you do use something it should be a Loctite 510 Gasket Eliminator, its a red goo that hardens under heat/air.
Ask me how we found out about Permatex...
Makes sense that permatex could do that. Interesting.
IZinterrogator
04-30-13, 10:10
FYI Permatex used to be a material used - the name was sold by Loctite to another company and the current Permatex is not a weapons part gasket material - its more of a rubbery goo that never seals.
It blows out a lot, and results in a lot of carrier key leaks.
IF you do use something it should be a Loctite 510 Gasket Eliminator, its a red goo that hardens under heat/air.
Ask me how we found out about Permatex...
So is any manufacturer out there that does use the sealant using the new unsatisfactory Permatex vs. this Loctite 510 instead because they haven't heard about the problems with the new Permatex?
Dave Berryhill
04-30-13, 10:23
I'm a little funny about applying that much heat to gun parts. Makes me nervous.
The amount of heat required to soften red loctite is around 300 degrees, which isn't enough to affect the temper of the bolt carrier. I wouldn't be surprised if a bolt carrier sometimes got hot enough to soften the loctite with heavy shooting, which is a good reason to secure them mechanically (staking). Most of the loctite thread-locking products don't have much gap filling properties so it woudn't be my choice anyway.
If I were to use a sealant, a "form-a-gasket" product that is designed to seal the gap between two parts would be my choice.
Thanks for the update Kevin!
FYI Permatex used to be a material used - the name was sold by Loctite to another company and the current Permatex is not a weapons part gasket material - its more of a rubbery goo that never seals.
It blows out a lot, and results in a lot of carrier key leaks.
IF you do use something it should be a Loctite 510 Gasket Eliminator, its a red goo that hardens under heat/air.
Ask me how we found out about Permatex... We use Permatex #3 aviation gasket sealant often and it's never been a hardening product. I've used it over 30 years and the new stuff sure seems the same as the old stuff. I agree that it may not be the best choice for weapons, but I have it hold in 3000 psi hydraulic applications.
ETA: I just re-read this post an hour later and I sound like I am questioning Kevin. That is not the case and his distrust in the the Permatex #3 is well placed considering his usage. It just hasn't been the case in my usage. I appreciate the input of industry professionals and I don't want to come across as questioning them. Thanks, Doug
The amount of heat required to soften red loctite is around 300 degrees, which isn't enough to affect the temper of the bolt carrier. I wouldn't be surprised if a bolt carrier sometimes got hot enough to soften the loctite with heavy shooting, which is a good reason to secure them mechanically (staking). Most of the loctite thread-locking products don't have much gap filling properties so it woudn't be my choice anyway.
If I were to use a sealant, a "form-a-gasket" product that is designed to seal the gap between two parts would be my choice.
Thanks for the update Kevin!
Dave,
When you refer to red loctite-and it softening under heat
-do you mean regular loctite or high temp?
-Jax
Red loctite 272 is heat resistant to 450F
Dave Berryhill
05-01-13, 08:08
Red loctite 272 is heat resistant to 450F
Sorry, I was quoting the temp from memory. The data sheet lists the temperature as 275C/450F but that still isn't hot enough to affect the temper if you need to remove the screws. It also starts to lose strength before it reaches 450C
http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/272-EN.PDF
So is any manufacturer out there that does use the sealant using the new unsatisfactory Permatex vs. this Loctite 510 instead because they haven't heard about the problems with the new Permatex?
I just bought one the of the Rubber City Armory (RCA) bcg's. Upon inspection it had a non-solid "goo" that appeared to be coming out from under the gas key. I could not find it anywhere else on the bolt so I assumed it was a sealant of some type. I will send them an email to find out if they use a sealant and if so what type of sealant they use.
I'm a little funny about applying that much heat to gun parts. Makes me nervous.
Thank you.. I thought I was the only one. That seems to be everyone's answer for removing red Loctite - take a torch to it! I've been making custom knives since the early 90's and know that too
much heat can ruin the temper of your blade so I was always afraid of accidentally annealing something important just to break a Loctite seal.
I have always cleaned the parts, placed a small smear (technical term) of red locktite on the top of the carrier where the key sits, a small dot on each bolt, torque to spec 75 in/lb and then MOACS.
I would feel comfortable without the locktite if the key and carrier were a good fit (known good parts).
I contacted RCA and got a quick response. They said that they use to use a gasket sealant under the gas key but no longer do so as it is not neccessary.
torque to spec 75 in/lb
50-58 in/lb ;)
Magic_Salad0892
05-01-13, 19:48
I have always cleaned the parts, placed a small smear (technical term) of red locktite on the top of the carrier where the key sits, a small dot on each bolt, torque to spec 75 in/lb and then MOACS.
I would feel comfortable without the locktite if the key and carrier were a good fit (known good parts).
50-58 in/lbs.
ETA: Eric beat me to it.
texasgunhand
05-01-13, 22:47
I looked at colt canada and their info there said to do this. When replacing a key.
IZinterrogator
05-02-13, 12:47
I contacted RCA and got a quick response. They said that they use to use a gasket sealant under the gas key but no longer do so as it is not neccessary.
Thanks for the update. I bought two from Brownells a few weeks back to complete some builds, but I haven't seen them yet because I'm deployed.
Apples and oranges. Bushmasters are documented pieces of shit, and their malfunctions are pretty common. I can't even think of a single time I've heard of an LMT having a premature parts breakage. Bushmaster? Not so much.
I use LMT carriers (with MIM gas key) and they've been great for me.
I had an ejector snap in half on my LMT enhanced bolt. About 2k rounds.
The rest of my MRP rifle experience has been excellent, however.
I always heard the proper procedure was to degrease everything, then use red Loctite between the key and carrier. then on the two bolts.
Torque to specs and then stake the bolts.
Eventually the gap between the key and the bolt will fill with carbon / soot. so it probably a mute point.
Don't loose sleep over it. And don't wake up and start taking your carriers apart!
Magic_Salad0892
05-05-13, 22:28
I had an ejector snap in half on my LMT enhanced bolt. About 2k rounds.
The rest of my MRP rifle experience has been excellent, however.
Huh. Well, that's a first. Did LMT replace it?
Huh. Well, that's a first. Did LMT replace it?
Yep. Free of charge. I live a couple of miles from LMT's headquarters. I walked in after it failed at the range and walked out with a fixed bolt. Gene thought it was strange that it failed.
To be fair, my last LMT bolt lasted 11k rounds of the cheapest, dirtiest steel cased ammo I could find. I keep it as a spare in my pistol grip.
patrick sweeney
02-05-16, 14:47
I know this thread is a bit old, but a few points;
When I visited Colt, I stood there and watched the assembler of carriers use Permatex to seal the gap between key and carrier, so if Colt does it, that's the standard. (I know I've been a bit harsh on those adhering to mil-spec, but on this point it seems a good one to follow) I am suspicious of anyone who says "it isn't necessary" as I've seen far too many loose keys in classes, keys that clearly lacked a sealant of some kind.
I've used both red Loctite and the dark green shaft and bearing lock from them, to successful assembly.
I torque to 55 in-lbs, and I MOACKS.
If you ever have a worn or damaged key, you can use a wrench to torque the screws loose, and wrestle the key off. Or you can use a mill and have the heads cut off in thirty seconds.
Given the hassle of them coming loose, I'm not worried about some extra work to remove them later, should they become worn. Life is too short to obsess over gas keys.
I have disassembled 2 Colt BCG's recently (from 6920's) and several military ones. If there was sealant, I'll be damned if I could see it.
I know this thread is a bit old, but a few points;
When I visited Colt, I stood there and watched the assembler of carriers use Permatex to seal the gap between key and carrier, so if Colt does it, that's the standard. (I know I've been a bit harsh on those adhering to mil-spec, but on this point it seems a good one to follow) I am suspicious of anyone who says "it isn't necessary" as I've seen far too many loose keys in classes, keys that clearly lacked a sealant of some kind.
I've used both red Loctite and the dark green shaft and bearing lock from them, to successful assembly.
I torque to 55 in-lbs, and I MOACKS.
If you ever have a worn or damaged key, you can use a wrench to torque the screws loose, and wrestle the key off. Or you can use a mill and have the heads cut off in thirty seconds.
Given the hassle of them coming loose, I'm not worried about some extra work to remove them later, should they become worn. Life is too short to obsess over gas keys.
I know that they did use Permatex in the past, but I do not know if they currently do so now. Some of my carriers are from the 60's. When re-keying older ones it's common to scrape off the old residue that was more than likely Permatex.
I still use Permatex aviation sealant on less than ideal surfaces for items.
I know current LMT Enhanced carriers have a sealing ring machined around the gas port hole so the sealant has a place to go... The two LMT Enhanced carriers I recently received had a red sealant (Loctite 518) oozing out from around the gas key. Also, the staking was different on these new carriers, it actually extended below the staking rail and looks like an upside down "T".
It took a lot more force to loosen the gas key screws with this new staking vs. their old staking.
Robb Jensen
02-06-16, 12:48
In the past I've used red loctite under the key. I currently just lap the key on a whetstone to ensure its perfectly flat. Then use new screws torque to 55-57in lbs and stake with a MOACKS. I've never have had one come lose that way.
In the past I've used red loctite under the key. I currently just lap the key on a whetstone to ensure its perfectly flat. Then use new screws torque to 55-57in lbs and stake with a MOACKS. I've never have had one come lose that way.
That's exactly what I've been doing for years. Never had a problem with mine or any others that I've done this way.
Pretty much the same. Although I do use red Loctite on the screws.
In the past I've used red loctite under the key. I currently just lap the key on a whetstone to ensure its perfectly flat. Then use new screws torque to 55-57in lbs and stake with a MOACKS. I've never have had one come lose that way.
I've never used red loctite on the threads. Why do you use it? Proper staking works pretty well. Are you using a forged key?
Additional insurance policy. I know of at least a few large companies that do the same thing.
I've never used red loctite on the threads. Why do you use it? Proper staking works pretty well. Are you using a forged key?
Pretty much the same. Although I do use red Loctite on the screws.
I use Rocksett.
I use Rocksett.
I have used moly grease in the past. I'm not sure if I should change my ways?
Part of the spec is the torque required to remove the fastener after staking.
With proper staking, there really isn't a need for an additional locking compound on the threads. It may not hurt anything, but would add a layer of difficulty if you use removal torque on the fastener to determine if a sample was staked correctly. How much torque would then be the range? With a tolerance added, how would you determine how much of what portion of fastener retention is done by either part?
Staking doesn't have to be pretty to be in the proper range. Just enough displacement of the key into the fastener to put you in the proper range without "real" damage to the key.
Another point I should have made is that the job of the 2 fasteners is to hold in tension the key to the carrier. The clamping force isn't much different than if you compared it to a spring holding tension toward the key and carrier interface.
Sure, an additional compound may prevent fastener rotation to keep it from coming loose, but you could be adding problems down the road.
The main issues I saw was fastener fail by either breaking, and/or stretching. Most of these could be traced to base fastener issues (don't go cheap here) and improper initial torque that damaged the fasteners.
It is pretty easy to service a key that is staked by breaking the mechanical bond of the key to the fastener. If a fastener snapped, they normally spin out pretty easy. Nothing is any tension then and nothing has been added to make it worse.
If you add a locking compound to the threads, you can add extra complications if the fastener breaks, making it more difficult to remove.
Why would you want that when proper staking with a good key will hold with proper support?
I'm not getting why that would be done?
LMT is currently sealing their gas keys with Loctite 518 sealant. No threadlocker on their key screws though.
Another point I should have made is that the job of the 2 fasteners is to hold in tension the key to the carrier. The clamping force isn't much different than if you compared it to a spring holding tension toward the key and carrier interface.
Sure, an additional compound may prevent fastener rotation to keep it from coming loose, but you could be adding problems down the road.
The main issues I saw was fastener fail by either breaking, and/or stretching. Most of these could be traced to base fastener issues (don't go cheap here) and improper initial torque that damaged the fasteners.
It is pretty easy to service a key that is staked by breaking the mechanical bond of the key to the fastener. If a fastener snapped, they normally spin out pretty easy. Nothing is any tension then and nothing has been added to make it worse.
If you add a locking compound to the threads, you can add extra complications if the fastener breaks, making it more difficult to remove.
Why would you want that when proper staking with a good key will hold with proper support?
I'm not getting why that would be done?
I would just like to add that as long as metal has flowed to make good contact with the bolt head, staking has been accomplished. There is no need to make two craters a 1/16" deep on each side of the key.
Many people (and manufacturers) go a bit overboard when staking the carrier and castle nut.
This:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3B1PQ3ILzA56EguQslW6hkKJlTTjqxASQ54YiNvzLo71CKKgLLA
will not hold any better that this:
http://photos.imageevent.com/willyp/firearmsalbums/uscoltarmalitem16ar15556/hrgmm16a1/HR%20L%20bolt%20group%20staking.jpg
or even this:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonpin/HSA-15%20specs/IMG_0023.jpg
(Although I wouldn't use YFS bolts...)
AND...
Over-torqueing the carrier key bolts in probably worse that under torqueing. The AR gas system is surprisingly tolerant of small leaks. Just as a point of reference, the average person can get 30-35 in-lbs with a screw driver, or about 1/3 pound force on the end of a a foot wrench, that's not a lot.....
I have purchased carriers with both sealant and something that looked like red locktite gooped under the key and in the screw threads. Pain cleaning it off of them. The red thread locker stuff was still wet. Only dried around the edges. Likely would have blown out and left leakage after awhile. Sealant stuff was thicker but still gooey. Had doubts about how it would last. checked the Colt Canada manual and it said this about sealant.
b. Apply a light layer of sealing compound,
to the under surface of the bolt carrier
key around the gas port, to form a seal;
Apply the sealing compound sparingly and
only to the area immediately surrounding
the gas porthole. DO NOT allow it to enter
the gas port or screw holes. Ensure that
the gas port is not plugged.
I had to dig the stuff out of the gas hole on the bottom of the key when I removed it. It had filled part of the key and was plugging it partially closed.
37838
Not saying anyone is right or wrong, picture from the Colt Manual (2014) issued 10/15, showing sealant used and a picture of the tub of Loctite sealant.
Loctite bought Permatex.
....in 1972.....
....in 1972.....
And then sold it.......
Did a little bit of research, for those interested. As far as I can tell Henkel still owns Loctite and Permatex is currently owned by Illinois Toolworks, Inc.
1972 – From Permatex History: The Permatex Company was sold to Loctite Corporation. The business was moved to Cleveland, Ohio and integrated with the Woodhill Chemical Company. In the late 1970's, Woodhill Permatex launched Permatex® Blue Silicone which went on to become the largest selling blister carded chemical item in the American auto parts business.
From Loctite History: Loctite also expanded its industrial product base through several key corporate acquisitions. Most notable among these acquisitions was Permatex, an automotive line acquired in 1972, and Woodhill Chemical Sales Company, purchased in 1974. Permatex's gasket dressings made it a leader in the automotive repair market; Woodhill's product line of adhesives opened up new markets for car and home repairs. It was Woodhill that introduced Super Glue to hardware stores across the country. The two companies were combined into the automotive and consumer division of Loctite in 1974.
The importance of adhesive and sealant activity in Europe took on greater significance in late 1996, drawing the attention of all those working at Loctite headquarters in Connecticut. In November, Dusseldorf-based Henkel KGaA announced its intention to acquire Loctite, proposing a takeover that industry observers valued at more than $1 billion.
Henkel concluded the acquisition of Loctite in January 1997, marking the beginning of a new era for the Connecticut company.
Substantial changes were in the offing as Loctite pressed forward under Henkel ownership, highlighted by the decision made in 1999 to abandon the automotive aftermarket business. Loctite sold the business to PBT Brands, Inc.
SEC Document: Automotive Performance Group (OTCBB:RACG) today announced it has purchased a 22% equity ownership position in PBT Brands, Inc. (PBT), a new company which was formed to acquire the Automotive Aftermarket Business of Loctite Corporation(Permatex).
1999 – From Permatex History: Permatex was purchased by a group of private investors in 1999. As a private company in 2000, Permatex introduced an unprecedented fifty new products, acquired the No Touch® tire care line, bought the Loctite Mexican Hardware Business, and purchased the NOS® (Nitrous Oxide Systems) fuel additive and treatment product line. In 2002, Permatex re-entered the industrial market with its broad range of products.
2005 - Permatex was acquired by ITW (Illinois Tool Works Inc.), a NYSE listed U.S. based corporation. ITW was founded in 1912 and is a Fortune 200 diversified manufacturing company with more than a 90 year history. ITW's decentralized business units in 49 countries employ 50,000+ people focused on creating value-added products and innovative customer solutions.
I thought it was interesting and answered the age old quaestion, 'are Loctite and Permatex the same?"
I thought it was interesting and answered the age old quaestion, 'are Loctite and Permatex the same?"
As far the horror of use Loctite's brand of liquid gasket vs Permatex's brand of liquid gaskets, or vice versa...
They are both designed to work in same environments and provide the same performance, and made from the same stuff, vegetable oil, rosin and talc.
Don't put it on the key fastener threads please, just around port into the carrier sealing surface.
EzGoingKev
02-27-16, 17:00
If you ever have a worn or damaged key, you can use a wrench to torque the screws loose, and wrestle the key off. Or you can use a mill and have the heads cut off in thirty seconds.
The good thing about cutting the heads off is it leaves material to work with to get the stuck bolts out. If they are loctited in and you cannot get them out then get a nut that will slip over shank of the bolt that is left sticking out. Weld the nut on. The heat from welding the nut on usually will break down the loctite. Then use a socket or wrench on the nut.
I know current LMT Enhanced carriers have a sealing ring machined around the gas port hole so the sealant has a place to go.
Any pics? Also, when you say current, do you know when they started? I have LMT enhanced bolt carriers in both my uppers and I am curious if mine have it.
Any pics? Also, when you say current, do you know when they started? I have LMT enhanced bolt carriers in both my uppers and I am curious if mine have it.
I don't have any pictures and none my carriers are currently without key, though I can say that I have had all 4 of my LMT Enhanced carriers completely disassembled and only my first one (purchased 09/06/2011) didn't have the sealing ring. My second one (purchased 12/26/2013) had the sealing ring. My third and forth (purchased 11/02/2015) both had the sealing rings, Loctite 518 sealant applied and improved staking.
My first LMT Enhanced carrier also had the very rough phosphate finish that LMT used to be known for, though my three newer ones all had a nice smooth Colt-like finish. So I don't have an exact date of when they started adding the sealing rings but it must have been sometime between 09/06/2011 and 12/26/2013.
These 4 carriers were all bought direct from LMT and my reason for installing new keys on all 4 of them was because apparently the assembly monkeys at LMT don't know how to install a carrier key without stripping out the hex slots of the carrier key screws.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.