View Full Version : 1911 carry
I would like to hear some suggestions for a carry gun in a 1911 and why. What I am looking for:
5 inch barrel
fixed sights
ambi safety
rail
leaning towards a steel frame, but would look at an alloy.
Of course dead on reliable and accurate. So many options and read so many write ups, but would enjoy hearing viewpoints on this and see what folks can recommend and why. Thanks.
Price range for the pistol will play a huge role in the choice. What did you want to spend.
Here is a link to a thread on the same subject...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=123762
And my response...
"Using a 1911, whether CCW or in a duty holster is a "life choice". Meaning you need to be dedicated to the platform like you're dedicated to your wife and family.
Choose a quality pistol, have it tuned and learn to diagnose, maintain and tune it yourself. Keep on hand a supply of parts and tools needed to keep it up and running.
Its not a pistol you throw on when you want to look "cool" or "tactical".
Otherwise, pick a quality, current manufactured polymer pistol."
I will echo the above sentiments of BBossman.
You can also find some good information from a respected source at 10-8 Performance (http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Articles.html)
I would like to hear some suggestions for a carry gun in a 1911 and why. What I am looking for:
5 inch barrel
fixed sights
ambi safety
rail
leaning towards a steel frame, but would look at an alloy.
Of course dead on reliable and accurate. So many options and read so many write ups, but would enjoy hearing viewpoints on this and see what folks can recommend and why. Thanks.
First, why a 1911? Are you a dedicated 1911 shooter? What two of the better 1911 smiths and experts on the platform have to say on the 1911:
Hilton Yam:
"For a dedicated and knowledgeable end user, the 1911 has no equal. For non-dedicated personnel, they are better served by a modern, low maintenance weapon such as a Glock, SIG, or HK."
Larry Vickers:
"How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?
That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock."
Note, both quotes were made prior the M&P. Yam is a big fan of the M&P and was an early adopter of the M&P. Don't know what Larry has to say on the M&P.
if you are dead set on a 1911 i ask these two questions
do you shoot with both hands as in ambidextrously? if not then ambi's are probably not something you need. They are all over "high" end guns but i see very few people who actually ever use them. Something to think about.
Also if you want to carry it, why a light rail? will you carry with a light? Rails make the gun much wider and bulkier, i have a railed 1911 but it isn't one i would want to carry regularly, i would rather carry a non-railed one.
Anothe option if you dead set is a springfield professional, 4" barrel and railed.
Really for a 1911 i would stick to companies with known customer service like springfield or wilson and buy the nicest one you can afford.
If not buy a M&P, glock, etc and a ton of ammo and be happy. I'm not telling you not to buy a 1911 as I am a huge 1911 guy myself but too many people get into the platform without really knowing what they are getting into. Highly suggest reading Hilton's and Larry's articles about it.
I would like to stay around the $1000 mark, I would go up quite a bit for a better piece though. The ambi safety is because I am left handed and I do train with both hands. I am familiar with the 1911 and have owned a custom Kimber and a couple of springfields. The rail is a nice feature but not absolute. I could see it doing double duty around the house. I have several 9mm, .357, .44, and one .45 currently so 'need' isn't really an issue. Around here the 1911 mags, are still available and .45 ACP is one of the few rounds you can still find. I like the platform and shoot 1911's well and I conceal them well on my person. Yes other platforms are available and cheaper, but my experience with the 1911 keeps it as a very viable option for me.
see that background now makes sense.
look into a TRP or a colt rail gun, both excellent weapons and around your price range.
In that price range I would take a hard look at the Springfield Armory MC Operator or Lightweight Operator. They will be near your price range, the meet your description, and if anything goes wrong SA will fix it.
You have described a Springfield MC Operator. Here is my customized one:
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv239/BlayGlock/SA%20MC%20Operator%20Pro/SAMCOper007.jpg
Very similar to my Long Beach Operator set up. My has been trouble free.
pleaforwar
04-21-13, 23:01
MC Operator, Long Beach Operator, and the base TRP are all good options.
I also like the R1 Carry, and you can see why at the following review:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=129070
I hear the STI Trojan is the cat's meow, but have no trigger time with the blaster so I can't endorse it. There should be plenty of reviews available though.
Cheers,
Dan
In no particular order...
Springfield MC Operator
Colt Rail Gun
S&W E-Series
Any reason for the neccessity of a rail? Do you plan on carrying with a light I assume? I hope you have a really good gun belt :)
Socom Elite
04-22-13, 11:48
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/hockey55/0551F3D8-DF7A-4531-A70C-573B0F8E344A-398-0000002D6DB4D224.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/hockey55/EB2C9CDF-57DB-455B-A0D5-8E99BA982890-625-0000004FC7FF10D3.jpg
Either the LW Operator or what I picked, the S&W 1911PD. I have about a grand in mine WITH a set of CT grips (not pictured). If you get a steel framed gun, you're a lot more likely to abandon the idea of using it for daily carry quickly.
I can't reiterate enough the above thoughts on "marrying yourself" to the platform. It requires more thought and expertise than a plastic fantastic.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157/Glocktogo/DSC_1162.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Glocktogo/media/DSC_1162.jpg.html)
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157/Glocktogo/DSC_1160.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Glocktogo/media/DSC_1160.jpg.html)
Army Chief
04-22-13, 17:22
As we have already established that there are far better choices for most; however, as a left-handed guy that still regularly carries a 1911, I would offer the following ...
- If you can afford a used Wilson Combat CQB, buy it.
- If your budget is more closely limited to $1,000, buy a Colt.
- There is no substitiute for a 5" 1911. Rails are great for HD guns; less so for dedicated CCW tools. You really want to mimimize bulk if you can.
- I do have a soft spot for 4" 1911s, but they are somewhat more difficult to shoot well and will be more prone to maintenance requirements. Buy a 5" first; then pick up that Commander or Compact Model you're so fond of.
- Avoid the trap of buying a particular model because it looks cool, or has every available option.
- Invest in the options you need. A quality ambi will be one of them. Night sights (up front, anyway) are another.
- Don't skimp on magazines. Buy the best that you can afford, and test them thoroughly. Nobody ever went wrong with Wilson's.
- If you purchase a 1911 with a chopped frame, recognize that compact magazines will require more frequent spring changes.
- Keep in mind that the key to carrying a large (though wonderfully flat) pistol like the 1911 is a top-quality carry rig/holster. Street wisdom still tends to hold that polymer guns carry well in Kydex, but a 1911 deserves leather.
- A great holster is of very limited value without a great gun belt. This is especially true with a 1911 because of the pistol's weight.
- Finally, avoid the tendency to buy a 1911 based upon sentiment. The gun features a fine trigger and excellent shooting characteristics; however, none of these will do you any good if you don't go out and shoot the gun.
- For some reason, the nicer the 1911, the less-interested the typical owner seems to be in shooting it. Again, don't be a poseur/fondler/collector: go out and shoot the gun.
The 1911 very much represents a "you get out of it what you put into it" proposition. If you're 100% committed to this, proceed with confidence; if not, do yourself a favor and go buy a Walther PPQ or a S&W M&P. ;)
AC
theJanitor
04-22-13, 19:14
I've been a 1911 carrier for nearly 20 years, always in good leather. A few years back, I switched to a glock so I could carry with a light. Recently, I decided that if I could carry a g17 for 15+ hours a day, IWB, then I could do so with a 1911.
Now I run a Novak built Colt, with a surefire x300U, in a Raven rig. 15-18 hours a day, IWB in jeans and a polo. It took a bit of getting used to, and I had to modify the Raven rig, but I'm happy as a clam. Now, I'm one of the few people that thinks an all-steel 1911 is "light" :lol:
as with all things 1911, get the best you can afford, and if that's still not sufficient, save up till you do.
Kent
Gary1911A1
04-23-13, 09:52
I carry a 1911 everyday anymore. I strongly suggest you learn as much as you can about the 1911 as it requires more attention and maintance than a Glock. Go 5" carbon steel in 45ACP. A Lightweight Operator might be good if your use to a polymer pistol. Get a good belt and be prepared to try many holsters to find the one that's right for you. Also take some classes from LAV and Ken Hackathorn. They have forgotten more about the 1911 than most other instructors know.
... Also take some classes from LAV and Ken Hackathorn. ...
That's what will tell the tale, right there.
Any time I think I have a good carry plan, I'll take a class with either a local training group or with Suarez International.
If you take a class with some training groups, you will have to contend with what is actually the artificiality of trying to keep up with a high volume of fire using 7 or 8 round magazines. Throw that artificiality out and you will still find out in training whether your carry plan is good or not.
I had it happen too many times that I would draw my 1911, pull the trigger, nothing would happen, I would tap, and when I went to rack I couldn't move the slide. At that time, I would realize that my only problem was that I had failed to disengage the thumb safety. Knowing that I didn't care to pay for enough training to do well with the 1911, I moved to the Glock.
It does happen that I will occasionally carry one. I'll carry a WC Tactical Elite (10mm) in a VM II simply because it's probably just about the easiest thing in the world to conceal. That, and it's hard to leave a 10mm at the house these days.
This using an ARES Ranger belt (buy it from LaRue). Leather belts are another thing I don't do anymore. The problem with them is that when you go to buckle them, you'll typically have only 5 or 7 holes to choose from. Likely as not, those holes aren't where you need them to be. Most folks swear by good leather, and that's fine.
Most times I'll carry an RMRed Glock AIWB. If you were to ever try that, you might not ever do anything else.
In any case, if what you're doing is working for you, then do it.
I wouldn't expect you to do anything different based on what someone on the internet says.
One thing I am sure of is that if you ever do some really good training, you'll find out what's going to work.
Or not.
.
Highvoltage
04-25-13, 13:28
I bought my first 1911 a while back, to see if I liked it. I'd been carrying and shooting a SAO gun(P220) for a long time, and wanted to see how the slimmer 1911 worked out for me.
I ended up with the Sig 5" TacOps, as it had a lot of the features I'd wanted: US made, decent sights, all steel, etc. It came with 4 mags, and priced at $900, I figured if I liked it, I'd move up to a higher end gun. So far I haven't felt the need, and I've carried it pretty much daily since confirming it's reliability.
I have probably close to 2500 (stopped logging at 2k) rounds through it, no malfunctions of any sort. It is plenty accurate, slide to frame fit has zero slop. All I've done is swap the plastic grips out.
Carries great in the VMII, with a good belt, I don't notice the weight.
I know some folks don't like the external extractor on a 1911, or have had issues with the "new" Sig. I'm just relating my own experience.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/highvoltage29/6EB74CD2-CDB4-4596-9DB6-30E54991E1FE-1018-00000246192708A1.jpg
I carry a 1911 everyday anymore. I strongly suggest you learn as much as you can about the 1911 as it requires more attention and maintance than a Glock. Go 5" carbon steel in 45ACP. A Lightweight Operator might be good if your use to a polymer pistol.
A Lightweight Operator is a good platform and I owned one that I carried, and then later sold to a member on this forum. If you do go this route, I'd strongly suggest getting a "reliability upgrade" by a known 1911 gunsmith or the Springfield Custom Shop (I did the latter). They'll upgrade a few critical parts, and for maybe $150 to $300, you'll be g2g. The Lightweight Op's are a good platform but in their factory condition, they are NOT g2g as a carry pistol IMHO.
One other point, the Lightweight Op is really not THAT light, it only saves you about 8 oz over the steel models like the MC Operator. If I ever go back to carrying a 1911 again, I won't bother with the lightweight/alloy models as it just doesn't seem to make enough weight difference to make it worth compromising on the strength and length-of-life of the frame.
Pistols in the OP's desired range. Listed by other posts but reinforcing the message. Most of these are well beyond $1K now unless you can find a clean used one. These are pretty much the only ones I'd buy in this price range, and with ALL of them, I'd be getting a 1911 smith to do a reliability upgrade before carry.
* Springfield Operators (TRP, MC, Lightweight)
* Colt Rail gun
* S&W E Series
Army Chief
04-25-13, 15:04
Personally, I'd love to have a Colt Rail Gun; I just think that rails aren't especially well-suited to the CCW role as primary, which seems to be what the OP is after. Whatever the case, the Colts coming out of Hartford right now are as good as (or better than) they have ever been, and the inherent/residual value of a genuine Colt will always be higher than any copy. For this reason, unless we're talking custom/semi-custom 1911s, I wouldn't even recommend another manufacturer. Where production 1911s are concerned, there is simply no longer any reason not to invest in the real deal.
AC
I have a 40 year love affair with the 1911, so I understand why - for some - there IS no equal. And yes, I've taken both an Intro and Advanced level armorers course for the 1911 - so I feel justified in owning one (OK - several).
I've been through a LOT of 1911s over the years, and will echo the fact that you MUST be dedicated to the platform, AND to each specific weapon. THE BEST bang-for-the-bucks I've come across at "every man's price" is the Dan Wesson Valor! (You might want whatever their "railed" version is - can't recall the name right now.)
Semi-custom, no mim parts, great checkering, melonite coating on top of stainless steel, etc., etc. Oh yeh - US made:) Did I say accurate???? All for the low, low price of $1700 (less for the non-melonite SS model). Don't know what's up after their factory fire, though. $1700, btw, is a lot less than the several SA 1911s I have that nickel & dimed me up into ranges well above that before I had a reliable & useful fighting tool!
The ONLY thing I want to change on the Valor are the Heinie sights. They are THE DIMMEST night sights I have ever seen! I just rec'd a couple of sets of Ameriglo night sights (Operator Pro) for a couple of the Glocks - and they are retina burners compared to the Heinies!
Can you tell - I REALLY like the Valor. - john
PS - I'm 3-4 years into a transition to Glocks, which I feel are the best end-of-the-world/SHTF pistol on the planet. However - if I know someone is on their way over to do me or my family harm, and can't get to the 6920 Colt, I'll grab the Valor (and maybe have one of the G17s in my waisttband as a New York reload:)
GunCrafter Model 3
On the OPs 1k budget?:nono:
Champion Operator may be worth considering. It doesn't meet your 5" steel requirements, but it's a reliable great carry size 1911.
Save a few hundy more and snag a used Baer custom carry
I've been shooting 1911's for thirty years, having several examples from Colt, and Springfield. I've never had issues with them. I clean them, and change springs when I need to do so. I am not a gunsmith, nor do I feel the need to be. There is no mystique about owning or using a 1911. They are simple, well made, and well thought out pistols similar to many others.
I go pick up my 1911 today! Can't wait to learn the odds and ends of this gun!
Nytcrawler93
04-27-13, 10:24
Pistols in the OP's desired range. Listed by other posts but reinforcing the message. Most of these are well beyond $1K now unless you can find a clean used one. These are pretty much the only ones I'd buy in this price range, and with ALL of them, I'd be getting a 1911 smith to do a reliability upgrade before carry.
* Springfield Operators (TRP, MC, Lightweight)
* Colt Rail gun
* S&W E Series
I have a mostly stock Colt Rail Gun. The only mods were a crimson trace G10 MS grips, X300 Ultra, and a VZ aluminum mainspring housing. I would trust my life on it with zero smith work. Would I like to swap out 4-5 parts for bullet proof parts? Sure, but it is a great shooter that eats every type of ammo out of the box. Just my 2 cents and pedestrian experience.
Nytcrawler93
04-27-13, 10:27
I lied, I also bought a ton of Wilson ETMs but the Colts worked fine.
Army Chief
04-27-13, 10:37
Actually, although I would concede that Dan Wesson may be a worthy contender here, too (just haven't really handled one to this point), it is probably worth noting that Colt's internals are actually of excellent quality for the most part, so I wouldn't be in a big hurry to swap things out on that CRG.
There isn't a great deal of sense in fixing what isn't broken -- and isn't likely to break in your lifetime, either. It's just an affliction we all suffer from in the 1911 world, where we've been persuaded that good can always be made better, and better can always be made the best, given the infusion of enough cash money. This keeps a lot of very skilled pistolsmiths in business, so in that sense, I guess it isn't all bad.
In reality though, after a certain point (usually around the $600 mark), all you're really paying for are cosmetic enhancements and/or features that have absolutely nothing to do with reliability or longevity. Still, the idea of a bone-stock 1911 just keeps some people up at night, and these manifestations of dread are fairly impervious to logic.
AC
Nytcrawler93
04-27-13, 10:41
Well said. Colt is making nice stuff. I have no worries.
I've been through a LOT of 1911s over the years, and will echo the fact that you MUST be dedicated to the platform, AND to each specific weapon. THE BEST bang-for-the-bucks I've come across at "every man's price" is the Dan Wesson Valor! (You might want whatever their "railed" version is - can't recall the name right now.)
Semi-custom, no mim parts, great checkering, melonite coating on top of stainless steel, etc., etc. Oh yeh - US made:) Did I say accurate????
The railed version is known as the Dan Wesson Specialist. I have one in the black finish (feels a lot like Cerakote though I haven't found anything to confirm this, just based on similarities to my Cerakoted rifle). I can confirm all of the points from jmoore including the sights being dim. Easily the best bang for your buck out there.
DW 1911s are very hard to find right now as they had a fire that destroyed the factory. They are getting things back up and running but it will be a few more months before their already limited production is back up to speed.
Dan Wesson Specialist (http://cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-specialist/)
Dan Wesson Valor (http://cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-valor/)
titsonritz
04-30-13, 17:52
I've been pleased with my Springfield MC Operator. I was looking for a Colt Rail gun but the Operator fell into lap, no regrets.
>>The railed version is known as the Dan Wesson Specialist. I have one in the black finish (feels a lot like Cerakote though I haven't found anything to confirm this, just based on similarities to my Cerakoted rifle).<<
If it looks/feels like you describe, you likely have one of the "early" models - often called "duty coat". It is basically cerakote. They then switched to melonite and many called that "duty finish". - john
If you can afford a used Wilson Combat CQB, buy it.
this is one of teh pistols I carry and I really like it.
I have a Smith&Wesson SW1911 Pro series sub compact and an AT Fatboy that I carry.
Love both of them
I have had my Kimber Custom II for over six years now and have carried it for that long. I use it as my work weapon now as well. I started with this weapon being my carry gun and so at first, I never could compare the weight to a Glock or another polymer framed weapon. I will say that you will have to adjust your lifestyle to the 1911 (or any carry of any gun for that matter); a steel 1911 is definitely not a light gun loaded. But I most certainly trust my abilities and my life to mine. Be it concealed bare, or being used at work with the Surefire MR07/x300 combination, it is trustworthy (and through training, I have not always been the kindest to it and it has been reliable *crossed fingers* from day one).
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