Boston event as leverage for drones

[WillBrink]

No surprises here, but the bodies have not even cooled yet. :(



Drone Industry Invokes Boston Bombings in PR Pitch

In the wake of the Boston bombings, the president of the largest Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) organization wasted no time in pushing for drones - as some predicted those in the industry would.

Michael Toscano, president of the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, said UASs could have provided critical situational awareness for first responders and law enforcement in Boston.

"UAS could be an important tool in the tool kit for first responders in the event of an emergency," he assured US News and World Report. "Whether it is in response to a natural disaster or a tragedy like we saw in Boston, UAS can be quickly deployed to provide first responders with critical situational awareness in areas too dangerous or difficult for manned aircraft to reach. Our industry is working to develop technologies to provide first responders with the best tools possible to do their jobs safely as they work to protect our communities."

This came as no surprise to those worried about the loss of civil liberties and privacy concerns with the use of drones.

Shahid Buttar, the Executive Director of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, predicted this type of action immediately following the bombing. He told Wisconsin Reporter it was only a matter of time before someone used the event to call for drones to help in these types of situations.

"I do fear the events in Boston, that someone will say, 'If we would have had a drone over the finish line we would be able to track back the footage and see who it was. It will not surprise me when it happens," Buttar said hours after the tragedy.

As CNSNews.com previously reported, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) predicts that 10,000 drones could be in the skies by 2020. For now, Congress has asked the FAA to write regulations on civil operation of small unmanned aircraft systems in the national airspace and submit them by 2015.

The FAA has issued 1,428 licenses to police, universities, and federal agencies since 2007- a number far higher than previously known. Of these, 327 are still listed as active. It is estimated $94 billion will be spent over the course of 10 years for Unmanned Aircraft Systems.

http://cnsnews.com/blog/joe-schoffstall/drone-industry-invokes-boston-bombings-pr-pitch

[Crow Hunter]

No surprises here, but the bodies have not even cooled yet. :(



Drone Industry Invokes Boston Bombings in PR Pitch

In the wake of the Boston bombings, the president of the largest Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) organization wasted no time in pushing for drones - as some predicted those in the industry would.

Michael Toscano, president of the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, said UASs could have provided critical situational awareness for first responders and law enforcement in Boston.

"UAS could be an important tool in the tool kit for first responders in the event of an emergency," he assured US News and World Report. "Whether it is in response to a natural disaster or a tragedy like we saw in Boston, UAS can be quickly deployed to provide first responders with critical situational awareness in areas too dangerous or difficult for manned aircraft to reach. Our industry is working to develop technologies to provide first responders with the best tools possible to do their jobs safely as they work to protect our communities."

This came as no surprise to those worried about the loss of civil liberties and privacy concerns with the use of drones.

Shahid Buttar, the Executive Director of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, predicted this type of action immediately following the bombing. He told Wisconsin Reporter it was only a matter of time before someone used the event to call for drones to help in these types of situations.

"I do fear the events in Boston, that someone will say, 'If we would have had a drone over the finish line we would be able to track back the footage and see who it was. It will not surprise me when it happens," Buttar said hours after the tragedy.

As CNSNews.com previously reported, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) predicts that 10,000 drones could be in the skies by 2020. For now, Congress has asked the FAA to write regulations on civil operation of small unmanned aircraft systems in the national airspace and submit them by 2015.

The FAA has issued 1,428 licenses to police, universities, and federal agencies since 2007- a number far higher than previously known. Of these, 327 are still listed as active. It is estimated $94 billion will be spent over the course of 10 years for Unmanned Aircraft Systems.

http://cnsnews.com/blog/joe-schoffstall/drone-industry-invokes-boston-bombings-pr-pitch

And it will do NOTHING to prevent this from happening. Particularly from Jihadist who WANT to die as martyrs. They won't be bothered if they are caught.

At best it would aid in the capture after the fact. Most likely, it would be used as the groundwork for creating vast networks of "Big Brother" government employees looking for people doing things wrong. Then, when people see how much it costs and how little benefit is shown, they will start creating "unofficial quotas" so justify the expense and people will start getting charged for all types of ridiculous things.

I figure there will also be a push for facial recognition software with government databases on everyone. Of course, that will only be effective on law abiding tax payers who want to do the right thing, not on would be terrorists who will just misspell their names and suddenly be off the list.:rolleyes:

[WillBrink]

And it will do NOTHING to prevent this from happening. Particularly from Jihadist who WANT to die as martyrs. They won't be bothered if they are caught.

At best it would aid in the capture after the fact. Most likely, it would be used as the groundwork for creating vast networks of "Big Brother" government employees looking for people doing things wrong. Then, when people see how much it costs and how little benefit is shown, they will start creating "unofficial quotas" so justify the expense and people will start getting charged for all types of ridiculous things.

I figure there will also be a push for facial recognition software with government databases on everyone. Of course, that will only be effective on law abiding tax payers who want to do the right thing, not on would be terrorists who will just misspell their names and suddenly be off the list.:rolleyes:

I'm still mulling this one over. Maybe the idea should bother me more, but two guys in a chopper flying around vs it being flown by a pilot sitting in a police station (as an example) doesn't seem perceptually that different to me. I'm actually less comfortable with cameras on every damn st corner of major cities myself as all they do is drive criminals to areas without cams.

Every new piece of tech has to be looked at for it's potential for abuse and this one seems no different in that respect. I can see +/- to their use by say LE but seemingly lots of non LE entities are interested in the tech which is getting cheaper and easier to obtain.

[Crow Hunter]

I'm still mulling this one over. Maybe the idea should bother me more, but two guys in a chopper flying around vs it being flown by a pilot sitting in a police station (as an example) doesn't seem perceptually that different to me. I'm actually less comfortable with cameras on every damn st corner of major cities myself as all they do is drive criminals to areas without cams.

Every new piece of tech has to be looked at for it's potential for abuse and this one seems no different in that respect. I can see +/- to their use by say LE but seemingly lots of non LE entities are interested in the tech which is getting cheaper and easier to obtain.

I don't have a problem with them using them in reactive or specific manner to search for suspects or to look for people growing pot or to cover the Boston Marathon or other sporting event.

What I have a problem with is an entire fleet of them combined with street level cameras and operators/monitors being on the government payroll "watching" us looking for people doing things wrong.

There just aren't enough serious crimes being committed "out in the open" for this to pay for itself. When it has been out for a couple of years and 3 crimes have been solved by it, there will be a push to scrap it. Well, that would cost people jobs, so guess what? Someone will start pushing to be watching for Malum Prohibitum instead of Malum in Se.

People will start getting tickets for Jaywalking or being convicted of Misdemeanors because of some other silly law that was never removed from the books.

I just don't trust the government to do the right thing with this.:(

[davidjinks]

Side track post:

There was a poll shortly after they captured douchebag #2, I believe it was on fox.

I'll find a link if I can but I'll paraphrase without taking it totally out of context...

Would you give up some of your freedoms/liberty for better security?

Last numbers I remember seeing was something like 65% yes 30% no and 5% unk.

This kind of piggy backs on your OP Will.

[Crow Hunter]

Side track post:

There was a poll shortly after they captured douchebag #2, I believe it was on fox.

I'll find a link if I can but I'll paraphrase without taking it totally out of context...

Would you give up some of your freedoms/liberty for better security?

Last numbers I remember seeing was something like 65% yes 30% no and 5% unk.

This kind of piggy backs on your OP Will.

That is disgusting to me.

But likely true.

I think most people would be fine living in the Matrix if given the option, as long as they got to watch Cable TV.

I mean they would voluntarily go into a maximum security prison as long as they felt they were taken care of.

Disgusting.

[kmrtnsn]

I ****ing hate drones. I hate the whole premise. There is absolutely no justification for an unmanned platform in airspace we control and there are many cheaper, more utilitarian platforms that can fly the same missions, for a fraction of the cost. A PD is better served with an AS350 A-Star with a FLIR, a Night-Sun, and a daylight camera than any drone. The Cessna 200 Series (only the 206 is still in production but the longer 207, or 210 with retracts , mounting the same camera setups is an even more cost effective platform where the hover and low altitude usage isn't required.

[jpmuscle]

Side track post:

There was a poll shortly after they captured douchebag #2, I believe it was on fox.

I'll find a link if I can but I'll paraphrase without taking it totally out of context...

Would you give up some of your freedoms/liberty for better security?

Last numbers I remember seeing was something like 65% yes 30% no and 5% unk.

This kind of piggy backs on your OP Will.

Such a visceral response is nothing new as people tend to feel especially vulnerable after being victimized. Same thing happened after 9/11 and tends to happen anytime something remotely bad happens.

[davidjinks]

Which is seriously damned scary! If people actually took a minute and thought about what the hell they were doing/saying prior to it, we'd probably be a lot better off as a country.

If the the majority of the American citizens in this country had a set of balls, Muslim Islamic terrorists would be scared shitless to even attempt an attack in this country.



Such a visceral response is nothing new as people tend to feel especially vulnerable after being victimized. Same thing happened after 9/11 and tends to happen anytime something remotely bad happens.

[J-Dub]

Such a visceral response is nothing new as people tend to feel especially vulnerable after being victimized. Same thing happened after 9/11 and tends to happen anytime something remotely bad happens.

Yes because people are jellyfish, moronic, dumbasses, that don't understand everyone has a personal responsibility to provide their own protection.

[davidjinks]

Exactly!



Yes because people are jellyfish, moronic, dumbasses, that don't understand everyone has a personal responsibility to provide their own protection.

[WillBrink]

I don't have a problem with them using them in reactive or specific manner to search for suspects or to look for people growing pot or to cover the Boston Marathon or other sporting event.

What I have a problem with is an entire fleet of them combined with street level cameras and operators/monitors being on the government payroll "watching" us looking for people doing things wrong.

There just aren't enough serious crimes being committed "out in the open" for this to pay for itself. When it has been out for a couple of years and 3 crimes have been solved by it, there will be a push to scrap it. Well, that would cost people jobs, so guess what? Someone will start pushing to be watching for Malum Prohibitum instead of Malum in Se.

People will start getting tickets for Jaywalking or being convicted of Misdemeanors because of some other silly law that was never removed from the books.

I just don't trust the government to do the right thing with this.:(

I can't disagree with most of that. Like all tech, checks and balances have to exist and examined for Const. muster. But, I don't personally have an auto reject for the concept per se. Would need more details as to how, when, where the tech would be used and what checks were in place for accountability.

[The_War_Wagon]

ONLY if they circle Mosques day & night...

[J-Dub]

ONLY if they circle Mosques day & night...

Nice.

[maximus83]

Yes because people are jellyfish, moronic, dumbasses, that don't understand everyone has a personal responsibility to provide their own protection.

^

That, and the mentality that says "Look to the government for a solution." Time was, when Americans handled their problems on their own, or by banding together locally when necessary. Now, "we" (meaning, just a bit over half the population) welcome Big Brother with open arms and invite him to take away more freedoms to "keep us safe." The biggest problem we're facing is not moronic politicians, it's the cowardly, dependent population that enables them.

[Crow Hunter]

The biggest problem we're facing is not moronic politicians, it's the cowardly, dependent population that enables them.

Amen.

[davidjinks]

Excellent post and 100% true!

I'm actually surprised no one has come out and criticized this post...

[sarcasmfaceguyhere]



^

That, and the mentality that says "Look to the government for a solution." Time was, when Americans handled their problems on their own, or by banding together locally when necessary. Now, "we" (meaning, just a bit over half the population) welcome Big Brother with open arms and invite him to take away more freedoms to "keep us safe." The biggest problem we're facing is not moronic politicians, it's the cowardly, dependent population that enables them.

[Belmont31R]

Listen to the Cato podcast on terrorism, and you'll see this is nothing but political and media driven hysteria. Terrorism, as a cause of death, is very low on the list. I forget all the disclaimers put on the number...but something like 19 Americans have been killed by terrorism since 9/11. Basically more likely to be struck by lightening. Yes, 9/11 killed a lot of people but that is mostly fixed with low cost things like actually putting in a secure cockpit door.

In the TSA's own investigations they are able to regularly sneak in fake explosive devices. It's really nothing more than something to make us feel safe. Aside from the doors we also learned passengers just can't sit there and you have to fight back.

This older brother could not do much more than pin a note to his forehead saying he is dangerous, and he was still able to set a bomb down on the sidewalk and walk away. The Russians of all people warned us. 3 people he knew were murdered. DV case. The FBI interviewed him. Terrorists don't walk around with neon signs on their backs. If this guy can do all that, and still get sworn in as a citizen on 9/11 then no amount of money, loss of freedom and 'agents' will prevent something. There are people here would could do the same thing, and didn't have the Russians warning us, didn't have 3 friends die by having their necks slit, and didn't get an FBI interview.

So...the more the system fails the more of it we get. Just like socialists and commies when their system fails. It's because they didn't have enough socialism or communism. Economy didn't do what they said after the trillion dollar stimulus? It's because we didn't spend enough!

Pointed out earlier but these types will also need to show something for all the money spent. The Cato people pointed out that about half of all the people arrested on terrorism charges since 9/11 stemmed from FBI operations with informants and UC's where they basically recruit people and pressure them for months or for over a year to where they finally take a [fake] bomb and then the FBI swoops and proclaim they prevented a terrorist attack. Thats nothing but a show and those people were all mostly incapable of procuring a bomb on their own. Plus the pressure put on them to carry out the 'attack' from the informants and UC's for long periods of time.

While they are drumming up fake threats guys like this Boston pair were practically jumping up and down under their noses and still were able to get citizenship on 9/11 and carry out an attack. We can put a thousand cameras on every street and have drones swarming overhead but if you don't handle the information right then all that is useless to PREVENT an attack. The information on Muslims taking flight training was in a file on an agents desk when they flew the plane's into the WTC, Pentagon, and into a PA field. Adding more agents just make's it all the less likely dots will be connected. Adding in a massive new flow of information will do that, too.

And I am not saying we should just sit back and do nothing. I just think terrorism is a low threat when taken into context, and we can take precautions that don't turn us into a police state or give excuse to the government to do illegal things like the NSA spying in the name of safety. Talking about rewriting the Constitution and destroying our way of life? We might as well just admit the terrorists won and accomplished their goals. We also have to realize we cannot prevent every death, and I'll take my chances with whats left of my rights intact over losing everything for some false security.

[jpmuscle]

Bloomberg... paging tyrant bloomberg....

EDIT.... saw the other Bloomberg thread..

[Moose-Knuckle]

For those who have been tracking this is just SOP; enact new laws, more regulation, limit personal freedeom and liberty in the name of safety. Tamerlan Tsarnaev had been a person of interest by the FBI, even interviewed. He had ties to jihadist in the Caucasus and took a six month trip to Russia just last year. It has been reported that Russian security services had warned the US about this subject and his ties to known terror cells in their country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22262452

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3011314/posts

Reminds me how Mohammed Atta and three other 9/11 hijackers were being watched via a DIA program known as Operation Able Danger. A book was published that devlulged this program and the DOD purchased the entire first printing of it and burned every copy. A censored 2nd edition followed.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/able-danger-adds-twist-to-9-11/867

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2022459,00.html

[Sensei]

Don't rob a liquor store while Rand Paul is around. He may drop a JDAM on your ass.


http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/23/ron_paul_fans_furious_over_rand_pauls_drone_flip_flop



"I've never argued against any technology being used when you have an imminent threat, an active crime going on," Paul said. "If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash. I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him."

[jpmuscle]

WTF...