View Full Version : Black Ops Precision Ranch rifle range day
So i have the honor of calling Mike Bush from Black Ops a friend and he made the trip out to see me before I deploy, bringing with him some toys. Figured i would post up since nobody has really done a review of his new 1911 and/or posted about his Ranch rifle especially in this configuration.
First off the Ranch Rifle:
alright so if your looking for a handy rifle in 308, 223, or 22lr this thing is amazing!!!
16.5" barrel, 12.5" LOP, Black ops action with Mike's proprietary barrel contour, threaded muzzle, AWESOME little package
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zps3d1f60e0.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zps3d1f60e0.jpg.html)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zps2a937fb4.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zps2a937fb4.jpg.html)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zps9a087c95.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zps9a087c95.jpg.html)
Mike also brought his other 308
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zpsdb8dda02.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zpsdb8dda02.jpg.html)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zps66991bf1.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zps66991bf1.jpg.html)
now a disclaimer, mike and I both forgot shooting bags so we were verifying zero's without bags and using our hands as rear supports so i know damn well his gun is more capable then this. I shot this group fairly quickly just to verify zero.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zpsaf45ef8b.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zpsaf45ef8b.jpg.html)
as always Mike's guns are amazing and the fit and finish is always incredible. My GAP 6cm made a appearence and continues to blow me away this gun will straight shoot
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zpse116cfe9.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zpse116cfe9.jpg.html)
Overall another amazing day and thank you Mike for making the trip had a awesome time as always.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/null_zps58fb2d09.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/hardcharger_photos/media/null_zps58fb2d09.jpg.html)
Mike bush shooting a Black Ops rifle, lol
What kind of accuracy could one expect of that .308 ranch rifle?
all his guns are promised sub 1/4 moa
too old for this
04-27-13, 14:45
I had Black Ops Precision build a rifle for me last year.
There may be someone out there that builds as good a precision rifle as Mike, (Surgeon, GAP) but no one builds one better. Mike doesn't just buy parts and then assemble rifles with them. He innovates; designing and fabricating his own proprietary components. The workmanship on my rifle after I received it from Black Ops, was simply flawless. The performance-same. If you're interested in building a custom precision rifle, Mike should be on your list of gun-makers.
man, i like the looks of that ranch rifle. looks like a great truck gun.
i especially like that DBM. whose is that? his?
TriviaMonster
04-27-13, 17:57
Black Ops and Tac Ops are at the top of the custom game. Pricey though! Almost DTA pricey.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Impressive results and good looking rifles. What stock is that on your GAP?
KMW sentinel built by mcmillan for Terry at KMW
SeriousStudent
04-28-13, 11:03
BigJoe, thank you for posting the photos of the Ranch Rifle. That's a really interesting concept. I've been thinking of obtaining a .308 bolt gun along those lines.
Good luck and good hunting on your upcoming deployment as well.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-28-13, 12:52
I'm listening? Tell me more of this ranch rifle?
his dbm
Do you need to have a finger inside the trigger guard to drop the mag?
BlackOps Tech
04-28-13, 17:07
Do you need to have a finger inside the trigger guard to drop the mag?
Yes, it's an Oberndorf style mag release.
i especially like that DBM. whose is that? his?
It looks very similar to Surgeon bottom metal. The trigger guard is shaped a lite differnt though.
Is there somewhere on their website with pricing? I can't find it.
BlackOps Tech
04-28-13, 19:07
Is there somewhere on their website with pricing? I can't find it.
We're making a few changes to the site....pricing is going back on the site ASAP.
It looks very similar to Surgeon bottom metal. The trigger guard is shaped a lite differnt though.
that's why i like it :) though i like the surgeon release paddle a lot better.
for reference a pic of surgeon and badger DBM below. the surgeon has the metal well protecting the front and back of the mag, where it looks like the BO wraps all the way around.
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/dbmb.jpg
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-28-13, 20:53
I like that paddle, a little turned off at the lack of pricing. Would like to see some irons on that ranch rifle myself.
I too prefer the surgeon style.
Keeping a finger inside the trigger guard to release a mag does not appeal to me in the slightest. The rest of the rifle looks good.
i don't think it's a safety issue with a bolt gun. i can't ever recall doing a mag change with the bolt down on a loaded chamber
my problem with it is i prefer to do mag changes with sort of a beer can grip on the mag and my thumb hits the lever on the bottom (badger) or either side (surgeon). to hit that button with my thumb i'd have to rotate up and then inside, which i would probably fumble a lot.
still, i like the magwell
BlackOps Tech
04-28-13, 22:14
i don't think it's a safety issue with a bolt gun. i can't ever recall doing a mag change with the bolt down on a loaded chamber
my problem with it is i prefer to do mag changes with sort of a beer can grip on the mag and my thumb hits the lever on the bottom (badger) or either side (surgeon). to hit that button with my thumb i'd have to rotate up and then inside, which i would probably fumble a lot.
still, i like the magwell
Very good perspective Taliv and I agree on the condition of a bolt gun when a mag change is necessary. Not likely that the bolt will be closed on a loaded chamber.
Anyone that has fielded a M1 Garand, M14, etc., will likely know what happens when the safety is engaged or disengaged and the condition of the rifle while doing so and I'm not aware of any NDs when doing so.
As far as the mag release on the BlackOps DBM, it's actuated by the trigger finger. A feature exclusive to the BlackOps DBM is a Pre-load piston that places 6lb force of downward pressure on the magazine. This serves two purposes....the first is to mitigate magazine rattle by capturing the magazine between two points. This serves to increase the level of noise discipline. The second is to eject the magazine from the DBM while reaching for the loaded magazine, thereby reducing the time it takes for a mag change.
Another reason for the guarded mag release is to prevent inadvertent mag release. The unguarded release is easy to snag and prematurely dump the mag.
Thanks Guys for the comments and perspective.
Would love to see a pic or two of that piston.
Interesting concept
BlackOps Tech
04-28-13, 22:48
Would love to see a pic or two of that piston.
Interesting concept
As requested....
http://i39.tinypic.com/2d1sopd.jpg
hmm... that's pretty cool. thanks!
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 08:34
hmm... that's pretty cool. thanks!
No problem and Thanks. It's important to design with a purpose and avoid what appears to be a continuous gravitation (within the gun industry) to what is considered to be "conventional wisdom."
Our bolt action and other component designs are no different.
Thanks again Taliv for your perspective.
Very good perspective Taliv and I agree on the condition of a bolt gun when a mag change is necessary. Not likely that the bolt will be closed on a loaded chamber. I do it quite frequently when coyote hunting, and with my truck gun. Almost ever day matter of fact. I'll fire a round or two... drop the mag and insert a full one. Then reload the other at my leisure.
I'm hardly a safety nazi... yet there is certainly a difference between other DBM's and this one.
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 11:46
I do it quite frequently when coyote hunting, and with my truck gun. Almost ever day matter of fact. I'll fire a round or two... drop the mag and insert a full one. Then reload the other at my leisure.
I'm hardly a safety nazi... yet there is certainly a difference between other DBM's and this one.
Gotcha, and you're correct, there are differences between the BlackOps DBM and others, hence the avoidance of what is typically construed as "conventional wisdom."
My design takes these notes into consideration:
1. All Guns Are Always Loaded
2. Never Allow The Muzzle To Cover Anything That You're Not Willing To Destroy
3. Never Place Your Finger On The Trigger Until Your Sights Are On The Target
4. Know Your Target And What's Beyond It.
If these items are the basis of governance to avoiding catastrophe with a firearm, issues such as the Remington trigger debate can be avoided, as the onus is placed on the responsibility and knowledge of the shooter and not the equipment.
Again, I fall back on the design of the trigger group in the M1 Garand and M14 (M1A). What condition is the rifle in when engaging the safety? Knowing this, how many Negligent Discharges have occurred when operating the safety? To take this a little further, were (are) the individuals that responsibly operate these platforms trained professionals or were they hunting coyotes? For whom and for what use were these platforms designed?
Of all the BlackOps DBMs that have been fielded, not a single trained professional has been concerned about where his finger is when releasing the magazine and not a single individual has inadvertently dumped a magazine. I'd grade that as a successful design.
Just a little food for thought.
what are some of the other differences/features in your action?
Of all the BlackOps DBMs that have been fielded, not a single trained professional has been concerned about where his finger is when releasing the magazine and not a single individual has inadvertently dumped a magazine. I'd grade that as a successful design. Are your rifles only for sale to trained professional marksmen, or do you also offer them to the general public, to include competitors and hunters?
Do you build rifles with other DBM's on request?
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 13:25
what are some of the other differences/features in your action?
Well, let's start with what's wrong with custom actions. Essentially, claims are made that custom actions are generally more precise than "mass-produced" actions, and of course, they should be. More specifically, these claims pertain to features that should be concentric or perpendicular to what is the centerline of the receiver, energy in the fire control system, overall precision and quality of workmanship, etc., etc.
The interesting thing about these claims, is that they're not substantiated with data. For example, let's focus on Defiance Machine. I've collected data since 2007 on the overall precision and quality of what is the Defiance manufactured receivers and bolts. Basically, the receiver features are incredibly inaccurate and Defiance is not very good at making bolts.
Generally, in the receiver, the face and abutments typically hasn't been truly perpendicular to the centerline and the threads haven't been concentric. Scope base holes are poorly threaded and features in the receiver specific to accommodating the fire control system induce drag, thereby robbing inertia from the fire control.
Bolts are poorly machined and have had issues with binding, the nose radius has been so large that the reduced surface area has made it impossible to feed from AW magazines, poorly machined extractor pockets and every Picatinny rail I've used was shaped like a banana.
Why is this? Because they don't make anything that can be tied to any real specs and tolerances and they don't/can't measure what they make, i.e., they have no real metrology capability.
What makes our actions different is the fact that we've actually developed true specs and tolerances and we measure and verify every action. We supply a Certificate of Conformance (C of C) that certifies that our actions (receivers and bolts) meet our specs and tolerances.
There are also inherent design differences that make our actions better. Our bolts won't bind, regardless of environment and we have more energy in our fire control system without the need to design triggers to band-aid flaws in design (I designed the Timney 510U to overcome design flaws in the Phoenix Machine/Defiance Machine actions).
I could go a bit more deeply into other aspects of the design work and how this work separates us from the others, but for now, it's probably best that I keep that info off the internet.
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 13:36
Are your rifles only for sale to trained professional marksmen, or do you also offer them to the general public, to include competitors and hunters?
Do you build rifles with other DBM's on request?
When I started the company in late 2004, we only catered to LE and Military. We opened up what we do to the general public in 2007, but we've continued to promote our true intent within the community as a whole. Our Mission Statement:
BlackOps Technologies, LLC is committed to designing, developing and manufacturing weapons technologies that will enable Military, Law Enforcement and Competent Private Users to confidently perform at the highest ballistic level achievable within all disciplines of responsible firearms use.
We build a lot of hunting rifles under the WildCall Custom Rifles name and we build precision/duty rifles under the BlackOps Precision name.
We will use parts other than our own on request and do so fairly often.
We will use parts other than our own on request and do so fairly often. I would have thought informing me of this would have been a better approach than to marginalize my concerns by implying that you are simply unsafe if you are concerned about that mag release placement. First it was "well you never remove the mag on a hot chamber anyway." Then it was "well if you are being safe, then this is just fine."
Never place your finger inside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
That safety fundamental is taught virtually everywhere.
Apparently I'm not the pedigree of shooter you are after. Maybe when I grow up, I'll know what I'm talking about... and you won't have to school me on rifle safety.
Alpha Sierra
04-29-13, 15:03
Very good perspective Taliv and I agree on the condition of a bolt gun when a mag change is necessary. Not likely that the bolt will be closed on a loaded chamber.
Anyone that has fielded a M1 Garand, M14, etc., will likely know what happens when the safety is engaged or disengaged and the condition of the rifle while doing so and I'm not aware of any NDs when doing so.
As far as the mag release on the BlackOps DBM, it's actuated by the trigger finger. A feature exclusive to the BlackOps DBM is a Pre-load piston that places 6lb force of downward pressure on the magazine. This serves two purposes....the first is to mitigate magazine rattle by capturing the magazine between two points. This serves to increase the level of noise discipline. The second is to eject the magazine from the DBM while reaching for the loaded magazine, thereby reducing the time it takes for a mag change.
Another reason for the guarded mag release is to prevent inadvertent mag release. The unguarded release is easy to snag and prematurely dump the mag.
Thanks Guys for the comments and perspective.
I concur with both your reasons for placing the mag release where it is and with your review of other rifle designs that place controls inside the trigger guard.
I find no issue with your design.
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 15:31
I would have thought informing me of this would have been a better approach than to marginalize my concerns by implying that you are simply unsafe if you are concerned about that mag release placement. First it was "well you never remove the mag on a hot chamber anyway." Then it was "well if you are being safe, then this is just fine."
Never place your finger inside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
That safety fundamental is taught virtually everywhere.
Apparently I'm not the pedigree of shooter you are after. Maybe when I grow up, I'll know what I'm talking about... and you won't have to school me on rifle safety.
What?!
Very simply stated, I don't support your opinion, as I'm led to believe that you've never used my DBM. However, there was a quick opinion related to the location of the mag release, which takes me back to my comments regarding "conventional wisdom."
If you have an issue with the mag release, use someone else's DBM.
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 15:34
I concur with both your reasons for placing the mag release where it is and with your review of other rifle designs that place controls inside the trigger guard.
I find no issue with your design.
Thanks Alpha Sierra....much appreciated.
If you have an issue with the mag release, use someone else's DBM. I would have thought that a foregone conclusion. Thanks for your permission to do this however.
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 15:38
I would have thought that a foregone conclusion. Thanks for your permission to do this however.
You're welcome....Clearly stating the simplicity of the matter without continuing the Internet delirium.
However, there was a quick opinion related to the location of the mag release, which takes me back to my comments regarding "conventional wisdom."
as noted, my comment was not safety related. I acknowledge there's a tradeoff between a no-snag design and an optimal ergonomic design. i'm not asking for a 2" diameter IPSC speed magazine release button :) i just want to be able to operate the button with my hand underneath the rifle. no big deal. just some feedback
just a couple more questions...
1/4 MOA guarantee is pretty sweet. do you offer that for other barrel profiles/lengths/calibers? like say, 260rem
action is rem700 footprint or custom? i.e. if i had an XLR evolution chassis laying around...
you make left handed versions?
ever spent the night in a turkish prison?
what do you mean primary extraction occurs 35% sooner? how?
what's backorder time like?
thanks!
ever spent the night in a turkish prison? I'm very interested in the answer to this one!
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 16:17
as noted, my comment was not safety related. I acknowledge there's a tradeoff between a no-snag design and an optimal ergonomic design. i'm not asking for a 2" diameter IPSC speed magazine release button :) i just want to be able to operate the button with my hand underneath the rifle. no big deal. just some feedback
just a couple more questions...
1/4 MOA guarantee is pretty sweet. do you offer that for other barrel profiles/lengths/calibers? like say, 260rem
action is rem700 footprint or custom? i.e. if i had an XLR evolution chassis laying around...
you make left handed versions?
ever spent the night in a turkish prison?
what do you mean primary extraction occurs 35% sooner? how?
what's backorder time like?
thanks!
I fully appreciate your approach and perspective Taliv and quite frankly, I learn from the types of questions you ask....priceless.
1/4 MOA guarantee is pretty sweet. do you offer that for other barrel profiles/lengths/calibers? like say, 260rem
Yes, anything we barrel (up to .300WM) and offer as a complete stocked build is covered by our guarantee. Chambers larger are 3/8 MOA.
action is rem700 footprint or custom? i.e. if i had an XLR evolution chassis laying around...
700 footprint
you make left handed versions?
Yes
ever spent the night in a turkish prison?
It was a dark night....uh, nevermind....
what do you mean primary extraction occurs 35% sooner? how?
The design and timing of our extraction helix starts the primary extraction process sooner and the process occurs over a longer period of time
what's backorder time like?
We're running about 10 months right now on rifles built on our actions. Rifles built with customer supplied components are delivered within approximately eight weeks, but this varies as well.
awesome. i'll have to give you a call next week after i get back from K&M
The design and timing of our extraction helix starts the primary extraction process sooner and the process occurs over a longer period of time
sorry for being dense. are we talking about pulling cases out of the chamber? :)
are you saying you're using a unique type of extractor different from the m16/rem/savage types? or that the bolt starts moving backwards 35% sooner?
edit: it occurs to me that it might be helpful to explain a bit more. i almost never do magazine changes when prone. if i only shot prone or off a bench, moving my hand in from the side would be not just natural but necessary. most of the mag changes are done from supported kneeling/standing positions, off barricades, etc. and my elbows are down, not chicken-winged, just like shooting an AR. so my support hand is underneath the rifle.
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 16:49
awesome. i'll have to give you a call next week after i get back from K&M
sorry for being dense. are we talking about pulling cases out of the chamber? :)
are you saying you're using a unique type of extractor different from the m16/rem/savage types? or that the bolt starts moving backwards 35% sooner?
Yes Sir, pulling the spent case out of the chamber sooner.
The extractor type is unrelated, but for informational purposes, the extractor for .473 and larger bolt faces is the Mini M-16. For the .390 bolt face, it's a SAKO type.
I'm traveling for the remainder of the week, but will be available if you have additional questions. Give me a call at the shop (406-892-1850) next week if you'd like.
FWIW, I met Mike at Rifles Only some time ago, and he was a great guy to talk "shop" with. Very knowledgeable, not condescending to dumb questions, and eager to answer everything asked. Having actually handled his DBM, and spoken in depth with him about his rifles, I have zero safety concerns.
His Spectr-Babr rifle is sweet, and I will own one one day...especially if he'll make it in .223!
BlackOps Tech
04-29-13, 20:49
FWIW, I met Mike at Rifles Only some time ago, and he was a great guy to talk "shop" with. Very knowledgeable, not condescending to dumb questions, and eager to answer everything asked. Having actually handled his DBM, and spoken in depth with him about his rifles, I have zero safety concerns.
His Spectr-Babr rifle is sweet, and I will own one one day...especially if he'll make it in .223!
Been a long time JP! I'll definitely do a SPECTER in .223.
titsonritz
05-21-13, 23:18
As requested....
http://i39.tinypic.com/2d1sopd.jpg
I like your mag release. That is where it belongs IMO. Nice and protected from accidental release.
After seeing the pic I have no problem with the mag release location. I shoot my Garand often and have fielded the M14 before. Never had an issue with the safety selector location on either one.
I think the Recon rifle might be my next "I love me/post-deployment" gift to myself!
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