View Full Version : Legal question
thepatriot2705
04-30-13, 12:56
Deleted
Inside of most city limits its probably a no.
If I'm going to raise hell with friends in the bar, I'll leave my gun at home.
If I'm out having a drink with dinner or at home sippin brew, I have my gun with me.
TacCommE21
04-30-13, 14:49
As others have said, varies by state. Most places usually prohibit being intoxicated while armed. What constitutes intoxication also varies by state.
That said, common sense rules the day.
That said, common sense rules the day.
Exactly. It falls under the Clint Eastwood rule.
A man's got to know his limitations. ;)
But if I had a few drinks at the bar, come home and strap up and step on my porch. Is that illegal?
What would your blood alcohol level be if a cop ask you to take the breath analyzer test?
brickboy240
04-30-13, 16:36
Might depend on where you live.
In Texas or Oklahoma or Louisiana...that might fly but in NY, NJ, MA, MD or CA....you could be in real trouble.
-brickboy240
That will vary by each state, IA has the limit being the same as .08 just like a drunk driver, if working for a department I know mine says you violate policy if you consume any alcohol while carrying your back up rig or off duty rig even if not legally intoxicated.
however being on your own property could throw some exclusions. however if you had to use it and when leo's arrive and they smell or think you have been drinking you are going to get tested and those results will be in the police report. If you are not intoxicated that would be good if you are it could violate your states laws.
Best thing to do is some research and if you are friendly with an officer or deputy ask them to look into it for you.
Of course the drive home. . . . . . . . driving home while snockered is ok. . . :suicide2:
In this state, the BAC limit for exercising the rights of a Permit to Carry is .04 (driving is .08). However, on your own property here, you're not exercising your rights under PTC. You always have a right to be armed on your own property whether you have a PTC or not. Therefore, BAC has no bearing -- in Minnesota anyway, you can be roaring drunk on your own property, carrying a gun, and be legal.
Nephrology
04-30-13, 17:37
In my home state it says this :
Sec. 53-206d. Carrying a firearm while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drug prohibited. Hunting while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drug or while impaired by the consumption of intoxicating liquor prohibited. (a)(1) No person shall carry a pistol, revolver, machine gun, shotgun, rifle or other firearm, which is loaded and from which a shot may be discharged, upon his person (A) while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug, or both, or (B) while the ratio of alcohol in the blood of such person is ten-hundredths of one per cent or more of alcohol, by weight.
I think as others have mentioned, common sense rules the day. If you think you shouldn't be driving, you definitely shouldn't be carrying.
thepatriot2705
04-30-13, 17:56
The statue in my state simply says "No person, while intoxicated, shall carry or use a firearm or dangerous ordinance....person found guilty of this section is guilty of a 1st degree misdemeanor. My problem with this is that what defines possession? Ive seen cases where it is easily accessible. In that case if im drinking in my own room and the gun is 20 feet away, its still possession to some people....I understand to never leave my own property with a gun if im intoxicated or to drink while having a firearm, but on my own property...:confused:
Like others have stated, it varies from state to state.
In the two states I carry the most in...
NV = As long as your BAC is below 0.10, you can legally possess/carry a firearm. [NRS 202.257]
CA = There are no laws that prohibits consuming alcohol or being intoxicated and possessing/carrying a firearm. However, due to the "may issue" CCW system, consuming alcohol or being under the influence or being in an establishment that serves alcohol for consumption while carrying is grounds to have your CA LTC permit revoked.
in Missouri you can be rip shit wasted and still carry anywhere. If you use it in a legit self defense shoot you are ok. If you have an ND or other jack assery happens with your gun while you are drunk you will be in big time shit.
This law was re-written I think in 2011 because the old law, the way it was written, made it a felony to be in your own house with a gun and be drunk even if your gun was locked in a safe. I dont think it was a law that was every actually enforced, but it was a really poorly written law and was cleaned up quite well.
That doesnt mean I condone drinking heavily and carrying a gun, but in Missouri its completely legal.
alvincullumyork
05-01-13, 12:31
How many of you have a zero tolerance policy for yourself? As in if you are going to have just one beer the the gun comes off.
How many of you are okay with carrying and having a beer?
I am usually a zero tolerance for myself but have once or twice had a beer with dinner while carrying.
in Missouri you can be rip shit wasted and still carry anywhere. If you use it in a legit self defense shoot you are ok. If you have an ND or other jack assery happens with your gun while you are drunk you will be in big time shit.
This law was re-written I think in 2011 because the old law, the way it was written, made it a felony to be in your own house with a gun and be drunk even if your gun was locked in a safe. I dont think it was a law that was every actually enforced, but it was a really poorly written law and was cleaned up quite well.
That doesnt mean I condone drinking heavily and carrying a gun, but in Missouri its completely legal.
That doesn't appear to be correct. I don't believe there is any state that allows carry while intoxicated. The difference is in if there is a presumptive level of intoxication for the purpose, and what the level is.
From Missouri Revised Statutes... "Acting in self defense" would be an immediate act of necessity for self defense, not carrying for the possibility of same.
Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;
Im ok with having a beer but if it turns into more, which it almost always does, i go and leave the gun in the car. Often i'll take it apart too....just in case.
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Plumber237
05-01-13, 14:44
I believe that MN you are limited to half the legal driving limit, so .04 BAC...anything under that you are okay to carry. Not sure if that pertains to private property though.
That doesn't appear to be correct. I don't believe there is any state that allows carry while intoxicated. The difference is in if there is a presumptive level of intoxication for the purpose, and what the level is.
From Missouri Revised Statutes... "Acting in self defense" would be an immediate act of necessity for self defense, not carrying for the possibility of same.
Minnesota prohibits carry or possession of a pistol while intoxicated only in a "public place"
A person may not carry a pistol on or about the person's clothes or person in a public place:
(1) when the person is under the influence of a controlled substance, as defined in section 152.01, subdivision 4;
(2) when the person is under the influence of a combination of any two or more of the elements named in clauses (1) and (4);
(3) when the person is knowingly under the influence of any chemical compound or combination of chemical compounds that is listed as a hazardous substance in rules adopted under section 182.655 and that affects the nervous system, brain, or muscles of the person so as to impair the person's clearness of intellect or physical control;
(4) when the person is under the influence of alcohol;
In the interest of covering all the bases apparently, Minnesota also says (in addition to "being under the influence of alcohol"):
(5) when the person's alcohol concentration is 0.10 or more; or
(6) when the person's alcohol concentration is less than 0.10, but more than 0.04.
The statutes define "public place" as not including:
a person's dwelling house or premises, the place of business owned or managed by the person, or land possessed by the person; a gun show, gun shop, or hunting or target shooting facility; or the woods, fields, or waters of this state where the person is present lawfully for the purpose of hunting or target shooting or other lawful activity involving firearms
Minnesota prohibits carry or possession of a pistol while intoxicated only in a "public place"
Those are pretty well crafted. Interesting that they took .10 as the presumptive level.
Those are pretty well crafted. Interesting that they took .10 as the presumptive level.
You have to have a permit in order to carry. A BAC of .04 is the max limit you can blow if you're carrying. If you're on your own property, there is no limit. Apparently you can be falling down drunk in your driveway, at a gun show, shooting range, in your business, or out in the woods carrying whatever you want. That is, unless you're hunting...there a law against hunting while intoxicated.
Headcase650
05-01-13, 19:22
in Missouri you can be rip shit wasted and still carry anywhere. If you use it in a legit self defense shoot you are ok. If you have an ND or other jack assery happens with your gun while you are drunk you will be in big time shit.
This law was re-written I think in 2011 because the old law, the way it was written, made it a felony to be in your own house with a gun and be drunk even if your gun was locked in a safe. I dont think it was a law that was every actually enforced, but it was a really poorly written law and was cleaned up quite well.
That doesnt mean I condone drinking heavily and carrying a gun, but in Missouri its completely legal.
Do you have a link to the new law? When I took my ccw class it was made very clear that you could not consume alcohol while carrying. Grill & bar was okay to carry, bar & grill a no no.
That doesn't appear to be correct. I don't believe there is any state that allows carry while intoxicated. The difference is in if there is a presumptive level of intoxication for the purpose, and what the level is.
From Missouri Revised Statutes... "Acting in self defense" would be an immediate act of necessity for self defense, not carrying for the possibility of same.
It was hashed out on a local forum when the law changed that you can carry while intoxicated, but like the statute that you quoted says, if you do something dumb with it you are in big trouble. If you use it in self defense, not a big deal. There are guys on the local forum that took part in helping write the legislation that stated that that is the case that you CAN carry while intoxicated.
If you have your gun on you, and you are intoxicated, and you DO NOT handle or otherwise use your weapon in a negligent or wreckless manner, you are NOT breaking the law. If you use your gun for self defense while you are intoxicated, you are in compliance with the law. If you handle or otherwise use your weapon in a negligent or wreckless manner than you are breaking the law.
Like I said the re-write of this law was done because under the old law if you were in your own house, guns locked in the safe, and you were intoxicated, you were breaking the law.
Do you have a link to the new law? When I took my ccw class it was made very clear that you could not consume alcohol while carrying. Grill & bar was okay to carry, bar & grill a no no.
Skintop911 posted the applicable section. There is a section(subdivision 7) about no carrying in places that get 51% of their revenue from alcohol, but there is also nothing in Missouri law that forces a bar to post that they do in fact get 51% of their revenue from alcohol, so how are you supposed to know that they do indeed fall under this provision? A bar(as defined in subdivision 7) is also one of the places that they can only ask you to leave, its not a criminal act to carry there like it is in several of the places listed in sub divisions 1-17. But to add fuel to this it states in that section that
Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated
however the section that Skintop911 posted conflicts with this one sort of. So you can be intoxicated with your firearm, but just not in a bar? I dont know.
I do know this was all talked about on the Missouri Carry forum and it was determined that, yes, in the state of missouri, you can in fact be intoxicated(there is no definition in the firearm law of what intoxicated is either, maybe there is in another section of Missouri law, but I cant find one in the firearms laws) and legally possess your CCW as long as you dont "handle or otherwise use your weapon in a negligent or wreckless manner" i.e. leave it in the holster and dont jack with it.
I am not saying that you should or should not carry while drinking, that is a choice you should make. I dont personally worry about it as I dont drink anymore so I carry pretty much every damn place I go.
What you do with that firearm involving the brandishing or firing of it has more to do with the situation, I would think.
As others have said, varies by state. Most places usually prohibit being intoxicated while armed. What constitutes intoxication also varies by state.
That said, common sense rules the day.
This. That being said, in my time as a prosecutor i never saw or heard of anyone being prosecuted for possession of a firearm (in there home) while intoxicated. Now the result will be quite different in Civil court if someone is shot by an intoxicated person. Think negligence. That of course would require a blood test.
Alpha Sierra
05-02-13, 06:24
Ohio laws are never simple, as shit just gets added and modified but nothing ever gets taken away.
Based on the two sections of the ORC quoted below, my take is that it is never legal to be in posession of a firearm if you are "under the influence" of alcohol. However, nothing I have found in the ORC defines what "under the influence" is and my feeling is that you will be arrested if you are in posession of a firearm and the cops even suspect you've had anything to drink to let the magistrate/DA sort it out. My suspicion goes triple for big cities like Dayton, Cinci, and Cleveland.
2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.
(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.
(B)
(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) An officer, agent, or employee of this or any other state or the United States, or to a law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry firearms and is acting within the scope of the officer's, agent's, or employee's duties;
(b) Any person who is employed in this state, who is authorized to carry firearms, and who is subject to and in compliance with the requirements of section 109.801 of the Revised Code, unless the appointing authority of the person has expressly specified that the exemption provided in division (B)(1)(b) of this section does not apply to the person;
(c) Any room used for the accommodation of guests of a hotel, as defined in section 4301.01 of the Revised Code;
(d) The principal holder of a D permit issued for a premises or an open air arena under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code while in the premises or open air arena for which the permit was issued if the principal holder of the D permit also possesses a valid concealed handgun license and as long as the principal holder is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse, or any agent or employee of that holder who also is a peace officer, as defined in section 2151.3515 of the Revised Code, who is off duty, and who otherwise is authorized to carry firearms while in the course of the officer's official duties and while in the premises or open air arena for which the permit was issued and as long as the agent or employee of that holder is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.
(e) Any person who is carrying a valid concealed handgun license, as long as the person is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.
2923.15 Using weapons while intoxicated.
(A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.
First, I know guns and alcohol do not mix. But if I had a few drinks at the bar, come home and strap up and step on my porch. Is that illegal?
Why would you?
Seriously, in life in general if you have to ask questions like this the answer is almost always "bad idea".
davidjinks
05-02-13, 08:27
I'm curious...why would you go out, unarmed (Not carrying), to go and drink and then go home just to "strap up?" If you're going to do that why not just "strap up" before going out?
As has been stated in the first response, it varies by state. Did you look up your state law about it?
First, I know guns and alcohol do not mix. But if I had a few drinks at the bar, come home and strap up and step on my porch. Is that illegal?
Best advice: regardless of what state you are in, if you are carrying a gun, do not drink. That is what has worked for me for many years.
In some states, even one sip of alcohol while carrying a gun is enough to get your license revoked. In other states, there may not be a specific limit, but your license can still be revoked for demonstrated poor judgment.
If you are stopped for a traffic violation or are involved in an incident, do you want responding police officers to notice alcohol on your breath?
If you absolutely must have glorified yeast excrement (yes, that is what alcohol is), assuming that drinking while carrying is legal in your state, my next best suggestion would be to limit consumption to no more than 2 drinks/day.
thepatriot2705
05-04-13, 22:38
I'm curious...why would you go out, unarmed (Not carrying), to go and drink and then go home just to "strap up?" If you're going to do that why not just "strap up" before going out?
As has been stated in the first response, it varies by state. Did you look up your state law about it?
Because Im a college student and I live in a bad area. No way would I ever take it to a bar.
If you are at home, it shouldn't matter if you want to smother yourself in clarified butter and touch yourself while watching "Roadhouse." Not that it is a good idea. Just don't go hiking off the porch. If you decide to discharge, your BAC will be part of the issue. Perhaps not in a court of law, but in the court of public opinion. If you decide to get hammered, go home, "strap up" and step out, be prepared for the following headline to deep six your career for the rest of your days:
"Local resident discharges firearm while intoxicated"
I in no way shape or form will have a weapon on me if I am even the slightest bit drunk. Can you imagine the field day the prosecutor would have had if GZ would have had any alcohol in his system at all, even a .01. Im not taking that chance.
I in no way shape or form will have a weapon on me if I am even the slightest bit drunk. Can you imagine the field day the prosecutor would have had if GZ would have had any alcohol in his system at all, even a .01. Im not taking that chance.
Agreed.
To thepatriot: Legal or not, why risk it? I don't care where you live and what actually happened, if some prosecutor decides they don't like you, they can charge you with anything they want, no matter what the law says or doesn't say. I can attest to this from first hand experience. You might even win your case, but do you want to have a case at all?
The first sentence in this entire thread is the answer you seek.
First, I know guns and alcohol do not mix. But if I had a few drinks at the bar, come home and strap up and step on my porch. Is that illegal?
and
Because Im a college student and I live in a bad area. No way would I ever take it to a bar.
Hanging out on your porch in a bad area while under the influence of alcohol . . .
What could go possibly wrong? :rolleyes:
If you were to get into any type of shooting, your blood alcohol level will be brought up as an issue because people under the influence of alcohol are known to exercise poor judgement and show less self restraint. There is a reason that bars and nightclub employ bouncers while museums do not.
If something happens where you must use your firearm, the police, district attorney, and even the media will be asking these questions:
'Did this guy act or react this way because he was under the influence?'
'Did this guy initiate that conflict because he was under the influence?'
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