View Full Version : Beretta ARX-100 Introduced at NRA Show
The Beretta ARX-100 is on the cover of June 2013 Guns and Ammo magazine and is to be introduced this week at NRA show per the article. The ARX-100 is supposed to be at warehouses which should they should start showing up this month. MSRP is $1950 and Beretta is asking dealers to honor this price. No mention of FDE version but I am hoping it will be available soon.
What's the difference between the ARX-160 and the ARX-100?
ARX-100 is the semi auto civilian 5.56MM US version of the ARX-160.
Moose-Knuckle
05-01-13, 21:05
Well dip me in honey and throw me to the lesbians! :eek:
First Tavors and now these . . .
Nothing on their page as of yet.
http://www.berettausa.com/arx100/
LibertyNeverDies
05-02-13, 06:26
I really want to handle one of these, but the hand guard seems way to bulky and short for my tastes. If the rest of the gun turns out as well as the claims state it should be a good addition to the market.
The Italians where I am in A-stan have all turned in their metal guns for the new plastic. I haven't had a chance to shoot one yet, but they look very slim and compact. Everyone I have seen seems to have about an 11 or 12 inch barrel. FWIW, all of them I have seen here are black, not tan.
It looks like a neat gun, if it's durable and can keep a zero.
The Italians where I am in A-stan have all turned in their metal guns for the new plastic. I haven't had a chance to shoot one yet, but they look very slim and compact. Everyone I have seen seems to have about an 11 or 12 inch barrel. FWIW, all of them I have seen here are black, not tan.
It looks like a neat gun, if it's durable and can keep a zero.
For what it is worth the article in G&A mentions that the ARX holds its zero with the quick change barrel. Also mentions that 12 & 16 barrels will be available. Good to hear about the handguard from somebody who has actually seen it. Did have same concerns that it would feel bulky but sounds like it doesn't. That was the orginal reason I was hesitant when I bought my FS2000 but it turned out to not be an issue either.
KalashniKEV
05-02-13, 09:00
Good to hear about the handguard from somebody who has actually seen it. Did have same concerns that it would feel bulky but sounds like it doesn't.
I have handled the ARX-160 a few times and the handguard is bulky and hard to manage.
http://ttag.zippykidcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IMG_1802r-900x675.jpg
I would probably run it with a foregrip, but even that would seem to be mounted lower-than-ideal.
ARX-100 is the semi auto civilian 5.56MM US version of the ARX-160.
In keeping with Beretta's habit of pissing me off, it will probably sport a thumb hole stock, threadless barrel, and feed a new proprietary Beretta magazine.
All kidding aside, kudos to Beretta if they can actually bring this to the market in the next couple of months.
I have handled the ARX-160 a few times and the handguard is bulky and hard to manage.
http://ttag.zippykidcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IMG_1802r-900x675.jpg
I would probably run it with a foregrip, but even that would seem to be mounted lower-than-ideal.
Really like that FDE in the picture. Hopefully it will be offered on the ARX-100.
SpyderMan2k4
05-02-13, 12:07
This could potentially be what I was hoping the ACR would be. A next gen piston rifle with a quality, toolless barrel change? Make a 300blk barrel for it and it might be my dream rifle.
KalashniKEV
05-02-13, 12:39
A next gen piston rifle with a quality, toolless barrel change? Make a 300blk barrel for it and it might be my dream rifle.
The tool-less barrel change does nothing but freak me out about this gun.
For me, the strengths are:
1) "Next Gen" ambi controls with ergonomic placement.
2) Adaptable lower to support different mags/calibers (Why no 7.62x51 though?)
3) Push button eject-select.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/rimg_1668-tfb.jpg
The tool-less barrel change does nothing but freak me out about this gun.
For me, the strengths are:
1) "Next Gen" ambi controls with ergonomic placement.
2) Adaptable lower to support different mags/calibers (Why no 7.62x51 though?)
3) Push button eject-select.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/rimg_1668-tfb.jpg
Per the G&A article "THe Italians are working a .308 model..." Also ...a .300 Blackout kit that is expected to retail for $499".
They had the ARX-100 at Shot Show in January. I'm surprised more haven't heard about it.
KalashniKEV
05-02-13, 13:36
Per the G&A article "THe Italians are working a .308 model..."
That would be the ARX-200.
To clarify, they should have made one receiver capable of handling up to 7.62x51.
WickedWillis
05-02-13, 14:00
I am sorry if I am overstepping, but I think it looks like a cheaply made SCAR knock-off. The hand guard looks incredibly bulky and un-ergonomic. The tool-less change feature is a nice feature though, but with more demanding shooters these days multiple calibers are a must (.300 BLK, .308 etc). I do like Beretta but I am sorry if I am not crazy about this.
People here will complain that:
The CH is reciprocating.
Not modular enough, their favorite PG, stock, and forearm won't fit.
Spare parts are unavailable.
Doesn't do anything a $800 AR does.
In general, all the reasons why the forum has no love for the Scar.
H
I am sorry if I am overstepping, but I think it looks like a cheaply made SCAR knock-off. The hand guard looks incredibly bulky and un-ergonomic. The tool-less change feature is a nice feature though, but with more demanding shooters these days multiple calibers are a must (.300 BLK, .308 etc). I do like Beretta but I am sorry if I am not crazy about this.
For the BLK one needs a barrel change and the changing the barrel on this gun is super fast.
As a lefty, I like the ability to shift ejection with a bullet.
D
WickedWillis
05-02-13, 15:21
So are they going to make another barrel or what?
For the BLK one needs a barrel change and the changing the barrel on this gun is super fast.
So are they going to make another barrel or what?
I guess that is the idea. The piston is attached to the barrel, not as slender as the FN piston used in the scar and f2000 but not as chubby as the Tavor piston.
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/ARX160-3.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
05-02-13, 16:04
For some first hand knowledge of the platform check out MarineSniper8541's thread on the ARX-160A2.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=107541
Magic_Salad0892
05-02-13, 18:13
Wouldn't the toolless barrel change thing lead to a less stable barrel?
I have gripes, but it doesn't look bad. I'd pick it over a low quality AR.
I think the handguard looks bulkier than shit, and I don't like the fact that you can't flip out the pistol grip.
I have only handled the LE/mil model but it felt pretty good. The forend is a bit bulky and the charging handle is a bit small but I liked it over all. If a few make it out and perform well I'd be tempted.
MountainRaven
05-02-13, 21:10
If it's anything like the ARX-160 rimfire... no thanks.
BUT... they have it at the NRA show, it's on the cover of G&A, and they are ready to ship them from warehouses post haste? What was it certain of our members said about Beretta being unable to market free sex? And where the hell is my Rk 95?
:sarcastic:
That would be the ARX-200.
To clarify, they should have made one receiver capable of handling up to 7.62x51.
No they shouldn't have. That is one of the downfalls of the 556 scar as it is too big for a 556.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
05-03-13, 11:52
If it is actually in warehouses and coming out shortly, it'll sell well as the new kid on the block. It'll kill their MR1, since they own benelli after all, but I doubt many of those sold anyhow. FDE please!
Magic_Salad0892
05-03-13, 12:08
No they shouldn't have. That is one of the downfalls of the 556 scar as it is too big for a 556.
Are you talking in mass, or weight?
Because weight wise, it's definetely not too big.
In general, all the reasons why the forum has no love for the Scar.
H
Keep in mind the SCARs biggest failure was with the Rangers who were testing it in Afghanistan. They were not impressed.
WickedWillis
05-03-13, 13:01
I know a friend of mine had issues with his ACR this way. It kept seating odd using the lever pressure when he would re-install the barrel. Maybe because he had to do it Everytime we took the rifle out to show off?
Wouldn't the toolless barrel change thing lead to a less stable barrel?
I have gripes, but it doesn't look bad. I'd pick it over a low quality AR.
I think the handguard looks bulkier than shit, and I don't like the fact that you can't flip out the pistol grip.
WickedWillis
05-03-13, 13:03
I would love to see more information on this. Not questioning you in anyway but I would love to read an article, or watch a video concerning this. The SCAR platform is personally one of my favorite platforms to run. I get pretty giddy when I get to run them.
Keep in mind the SCARs biggest failure was with the Rangers who were testing it in Afghanistan. They were not impressed.
KalashniKEV
05-03-13, 14:07
No they shouldn't have. That is one of the downfalls of the 556 scar as it is too big for a 556.
You're assuming that the upper receiver, being the control part, must be larger to accommodate the longer magazines.
It doesn't have to be- More lower, less upper into the design.
As far as being heavier, some additional reinforcement up front would add a negligible amount of weight to the total.
Instead we're going to have an ARX-100 to compete with AR-15 types, an ARX-200 to compete with AR-10 types/ FALs/ G3s... maybe an ARX-50 to compete with MP5s/ MPXs/ CZ Skorpions next...
Keep in mind the SCARs biggest failure was with the Rangers who were testing it in Afghanistan. They were not impressed.
Not as unimpressed as people were with the M16 in Vietnam...
People tend to forget that the M16/AR15/etc family is what, 50+ years old... Remember it didn't alway shit tiffany cuff links... ;)
Personally I'm glad to see things like this Beretta introduced with more innovation in the small arms market. It'd be nice if they could actually get them to the US.
Magic_Salad0892
05-03-13, 15:41
I know a friend of mine had issues with his ACR this way. It kept seating odd using the lever pressure when he would re-install the barrel. Maybe because he had to do it Everytime we took the rifle out to show off?
Oh Jesus, I wouldn't expect it to hold up to military use then.
Oh Jesus, I wouldn't expect it to hold up to military use then.
I think that is why the Remmy version is not using the tool less barrel removal system.
Wouldn't the toolless barrel change thing lead to a less stable barrel?
I have gripes, but it doesn't look bad. I'd pick it over a low quality AR.
I think the handguard looks bulkier than shit, and I don't like the fact that you can't flip out the pistol grip.
I have 2 Augs. Tooless barrel changes are doable. Probably not by bushmaster.... but Steyr makes it work.
D
I think that is why the Remmy version is not using the tool less barrel removal system.
I don't think this is the case. It has been reported that Remington changed the barrel removal system for the ACR submitted to the Individual Carbine tests because big Army did not want individual soldiers to be able to pull the barrel.
BoringGuy45
05-03-13, 20:01
I don't think this is the case. It has been reported that Remington changed the barrel removal system for the ACR submitted to the Individual Carbine tests because big Army did not want individual soldiers to be able to pull the barrel.
That was the reason? I had heard that it was to save weight as the clamp system was too heavy or something like that.
You're assuming that the upper receiver, being the control part, must be larger to accommodate the longer magazines.
It doesn't have to be- More lower, less upper into the design.
As far as being heavier, some additional reinforcement up front would add a negligible amount of weight to the total.
Instead we're going to have an ARX-100 to compete with AR-15 types, an ARX-200 to compete with AR-10 types/ FALs/ G3s... maybe an ARX-50 to compete with MP5s/ MPXs/ CZ Skorpions next...
Everything on a SCAR is bigger than an AR-15, and bigger than it needs to be for 5.56.
The height, thickness, and volume is larger because it has to handle .308.
Not as unimpressed as people were with the M16 in Vietnam...
My father said that in '68 to '69 when he was in Vietnam as an artillery forward observer, he had no problems with his Car15.
That was the reason? I had heard that it was to save weight as the clamp system was too heavy or something like that.
Removing the wrench and latch assemblies only saves about 3-4ozs IIRC. The big weight savings came from a lighter barrel contour and replacing large steel parts with lighter weight but equal strength materials for some parts (trunnion, barrel nut, etc).
NRA convention video of the Beretta ARX-100
http://youtu.be/oAXWbaroZec
This could potentially be what I was hoping the ACR would be. A next gen piston rifle with a quality, toolless barrel change? Make a 300blk barrel for it and it might be my dream rifle.
So are they going to make another barrel or what?
Beretta USA rep at the NRA convention stated the ARX-100 will be launching with an optional .300Blackout conversion barrel/kit.
I know it's not about aesthetics, but damn that thing is ugly.
Finger groove on the grip :nono:
I kinda want...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
That was the reason? I had heard that it was to save weight as the clamp system was too heavy or something like that.
Yes. On a side note, I haven't had any problems with my ACR barrel taking it off and putting it back on.
SpyderMan2k4
05-04-13, 09:07
Beretta USA rep at the NRA convention stated the ARX-100 will be launching with an optional .300Blackout conversion barrel/kit.
That's awesome that 1.) It'll be a factory option seemingly early on and therefore 2.) Hopefully they've got the design and engineering figured out already for it to run reliably (opposed to the tavor, for example, which apparently is a little tougher to make work at this point.)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; I really like the looks of this rifle. And it has some very well thought out, seemingly well executed design aspects. I look forward to buying one.
I still feel that is kinda ironic that the gun with the easiest ejection side change is a non-bullpup.
Larry Vickers
05-04-13, 15:13
Vitor
Actually the FAMAS is very easy to switch from left to right eject - on par with the ARX-100 and possibly even easier
DontCome2MyHouse
05-04-13, 16:53
Is it really true that ARX requires NO lubrication at all? Can anyone verify?
Is it really true that ARX requires NO lubrication at all? Can anyone verify?
I don't believe that for a second. Sounds like a great way to increase parts wear.
Vitor
Actually the FAMAS is very easy to switch from left to right eject - on par with the ARX-100 and possibly even easier
Mr. Vickers, I was under the impression that it took more time:
"Being a bullpup, the FA MAS can be modified to fire from either shoulder. To change the FA MAS from right- to left-hand ejection, withdraw the bolt head after removing its notched retaining pin on top of the bolt body, insert the extractor into the left side of the bolt head and the dummy plug into the right side. The extractor will now spin empty cases out to the left. Nothing else is required for left-hand ejection, other than to snap the cheekpiece onto the right side of the buttstock."
DontCome2MyHouse
05-04-13, 17:31
I don't believe that for a second. Sounds like a great way to increase parts wear.
Got the G&A article in front of me and the author states:
"Maintaining the ARX 100 can't get any simpler. There are no pins to punch out and misplace and it's designed to operate lubricant free. In my time with both sample rifles, never a drop of oil was applied"
That's pretty astonishing if true. How did Beretta manage to pull that off? Is the ARX also "friction free"?
Larry Vickers
05-04-13, 18:57
Based on what I know about the ARX 160/100 it is still a deliberate act to switch from left to right eject
At that point which one is faster is probably a moot point
I'm sure ill have one of the first ARX100's when they hit so ill compare it to a FAMAS and let you know
Don't let me forget however - I get a little busy sometimes !!!
Got the G&A article in front of me and the author states:
"Maintaining the ARX 100 can't get any simpler. There are no pins to punch out and misplace and it's designed to operate lubricant free. In my time with both sample rifles, never a drop of oil was applied"
That's pretty astonishing if true. How did Beretta manage to pull that off? Is the ARX also "friction free"?
Any rifle may work for a time without lube. Dosn't mean it wont wear more or fail when it gets dirty. Some AR piston companies or makers of specially coated BCGs make a similar claim. Doesn't mean it's true. I do not believe the bull spewed by gun rags. I'm prepared to be proven wrong, and it would be cool if I was.
MadAngler1
05-04-13, 22:35
Does the ARX-100 have an adjustable gas system for suppressed use? To me, this is one of the best things the SCAR has over many competing rifles. I just wish the charging handle was non-reciprocating on my SCAR, not that it has caused me any problems yet.
I'd like to look at an ARX to learn about it up close, but I have other things on my "to do" list before I buy one.
So from looking at the new ARX-100 and comparing it to the ARX-160 what has changed and why?
(1) Selector lever with a 90 degree throw... Why? To make it more like the AR15? Will we never evolve past 60's era technology? No one likes the 90 degree throw on the Bushmaster ACR.
(2) The stock adjustment mechanism has definitely changed... Why?
(3) The handguard and gas system are shorter by about two or three inches... Why?
(4) The bolt catch is now external of the trigger guard... Why? This might be able to be seen as a good thing.
(5) The barrel now sports an A2 flash suppressor... Why?
(6) It looks like they removed the bayonet lug... Why?
(7) The contour of the barrel just in front of the barrel extension has changed to a smaller non tapered dimension... Why?
(8) No automatic fire mode of course... Why? We all know why, though it is for no excusable reason.
Most of these changes have not been addressed by any of the Beretta reps that I have seen.
Anyone else notice any other changes on the ARX-100?
Edit: I know this post comes off as bitching but that's not what it is. I would just like to know why some things have changed. I'm not really mad one way or the other yet. ;)
MountainRaven
05-04-13, 23:44
Got the G&A article in front of me and the author states:
"Maintaining the ARX 100 can't get any simpler. There are no pins to punch out and misplace and it's designed to operate lubricant free. In my time with both sample rifles, never a drop of oil was applied"
That's pretty astonishing if true. How did Beretta manage to pull that off? Is the ARX also "friction free"?
I'm pretty sure they (G&A) said the same thing about the M16 in the 1960s.
I'm getting one for sure.
O
Got the G&A article in front of me and the author states:
"Maintaining the ARX 100 can't get any simpler. There are no pins to punch out and misplace and it's designed to operate lubricant free. In my time with both sample rifles, never a drop of oil was applied"
I don't have have the article, but how many rounds did they fire with oil?
It's SOP to clean guns of oil before firing in winter here. That, or we use very light oils that do not lubricate all that well. There is nothing magical with firing a gun without lubrication, infact IMHO gun is not a good design if it doesn't do 1k rounds without oil.
Most guns will do that. I'm sure ARX will do it too.
And it will cause more wear. So if you don't need to, why should you run it without oil
Played with it at SHOT..2012 and 2013..Beretta rep was sleazy a bit on details.
Actually man grabbed the rifle from me..I played with the 160 and I can see some differences.
I have mild aspies so little detailistic stuff pops up at me.
Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2
So from looking at the new ARX-100 and comparing it to the ARX-160 what has changed and why?
(1) Selector lever with a 90 degree throw... Why? To make it more like the AR15? Will we never evolve past 60's era technology? No one likes the 90 degree throw on the Bushmaster ACR.
(2) The stock adjustment mechanism has definitely changed... Why?
(3) The handguard and gas system are shorter by about two or three inches... Why?
(4) The bolt catch is now external of the trigger guard... Why? This might be able to be seen as a good thing.
(5) The barrel now sports an A2 flash suppressor... Why?
(6) It looks like they removed the bayonet lug... Why?
(7) No automatic fire mode of course... Why? We all know why, though it is for no excusable reason.
Most of these changes have not been addressed by any of the Beretta reps that I have seen.
Anyone else notice any other changes on the ARX-100?
I think it's excusable for Beretta to make it semi only. :rolleyes: You know, so we can buy it.
You forgot that they added a finger grove to the grip. It's like they think we enjoy that POS thing.
I think it's excusable for Beretta to make it semi only. :rolleyes: You know, so we can buy it.
You forgot that they added a finger grove to the grip. It's like they think we enjoy that POS thing.
I don't mean that I blame Beretta for not having an outo setting on the ARX. I mean that the reasons that led to full auto being banned are inexcusable.
They added the finger grove to the ARX-160 about two or more years ago. Now that is beretta's fault and completeley inexcusable. :fie:
So from looking at the new ARX-100 and comparing it to the ARX-160 what has changed and why?
(1) Selector lever with a 90 degree throw... Why? To make it more like the AR15? Will we never evolve past 60's era technology? No one likes the 90 degree throw on the Bushmaster ACR.
(2) The stock adjustment mechanism has definitely changed... Why?
(3) The handguard and gas system are shorter by about two or three inches... Why?
(4) The bolt catch is now external of the trigger guard... Why? This might be able to be seen as a good thing.
(5) The barrel now sports an A2 flash suppressor... Why?
(6) It looks like they removed the bayonet lug... Why?
(7) No automatic fire mode of course... Why? We all know why, though it is for no excusable reason.
Most of these changes have not been addressed by any of the Beretta reps that I have seen.
Anyone else notice any other changes on the ARX-100?
Not that I can say positively but would presume most of the changes were a result of input from Italian Military based in experiences in AFG (with the exception of the auto capability but we all know that is to allow civilian US sales). Would also say the removal of bayonet lug was done for same reason on US sales to avoid issues/seen as unnecessary manufacturing step to save money. The ARX-100 is basically the ARX-160A3 from what I have read. Regardless would pick one up when they come available to add to the collection. Hopefully it will be available in FDE since I prefer it but if it will be a year or longer will just pick up the black version.
Not that I can say positively but would presume most of the changes were a result of input from Italian Military based in experiences in AFG (with the exception of the auto capability but we all know that is to allow civilian US sales). Would also say the removal of bayonet lug was done for same reason on US sales to avoid issues/seen as unnecessary manufacturing step to save money. The ARX-100 is basically the ARX-160A3 from what I have read. Regardless would pick one up when they come available to add to the collection. Hopefully it will be available in FDE since I prefer it but if it will be a year or longer will just pick up the black version.
I would be interested to see if some of the changes we see in the ARX-100 came from newer versions of the ARX-160.
Though I have not heard anything about an ARX-160A3. Was it talked about somewhere recently?
I wonder why they didn't call it the ARX-150 in keeping with the AR-15 vs. M-16 nomenclature?
I have mild aspies so little detailistic stuff pops up at me.
That makes two of us... Though I think mine is just a bit more than mild. ;)
I wonder why they didn't call it the ARX-150 in keeping with the AR-15 vs. M-16 nomenclature?
I wish that it was still the ARX-160. :(
I've been eagerly anticipating this new rifle for some time now. However, after finally laying hands on one and witnessing a product rep struggle through basic field stripping and reassembly, it's starting to lose it's appeal. It will be very interesting to see how they hold up in reviews once they hit the market.
http://imageshack.us/a/img571/7796/img0622ar.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img191/431/img0625iv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img803/803/img0631jc.jpg
witnessing a product rep struggle through basic field stripping and reassembly
You seriously got the wrong rep. The one that showed me the rifle today had it completely apart in less than 30 seconds and back together in about the same.
You seriously got the wrong rep. The one that showed me the rifle today had it completely apart in less than 30 seconds and back together in about the same.
No doubt, yet with enough practice even the most complex field strip can be made to look easy.
I'm not trying to imply the ARX is overcomplicated in that regard, only that upon initial observation it did appear "less than intuitive" even for someone with some degree of experience with the platform.
The internal components as well I believe exhibit a higher level of intricacy to them when compared against other mostly-polymer rifles such as the SCAR or G-36. Whether or not that correlates to fragility is something I'll let other buyers first discover.
This was only a passing judgement and I have no experience with the rifle other than these few moments spent fondling it. Again, I am excited to see where this project leads as I have been interested in it for a while now.
Here's some more pictures. The gun is interesting, but in my personal opinion, that's all it will ever be, is interesting.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8132/8711385671_49177c565e_h.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8556/8712511610_11fcc7a77c_h.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8268/8712511310_7593e028a1_h.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8557/8712511280_ac3984b23b_h.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8256/8711386023_91a3e12d3e_h.jpg
Squid,
I too am very interested. Especially so after another disappointing conversation with the Bushmaster people. If I can actually get a factory .300BlackOut barrel for this rifle (as they were showing at the NRA show) and there are good reviews from trustworthy sources (not gun magazines), I may just give up on my ACR.
Ergonomics are slightly better with the ACR in terms of the size and shape of the magazine release and bolt catch but the stock on the ARX is easier to adjust and I can see the additional mag release button on the bottom of the ARX making it easier to rip out a mag in a malfunction clearance.
I am just not sure about the mounts for the short side rails as they interfere with my "normal" support hand placement. Also, the way the carrier rides in the receiver is a little suspect based on the G36 issues. However, there have been a couple of guys on Lightfighter who have dealt with units (Italian and otherwise) who field the ARX160 and the feedback has generally been very positive.
Guess we shall see soon enough.
FWIW - The Rep I dealt with told me rifles are being built now for shipment "shortly" but total production for this year will "only" be 5000 units. (Bushmaster has not produced that many ACRs total.) He also said production volume is set to increase next year as more capacity comes online in Accokeek.
You seriously got the wrong rep. The one that showed me the rifle today had it completely apart in less than 30 seconds and back together in about the same.
The rep who was showing the rifle off to me did a fantastic job. He talked with me for about 15 minutes on the rifle, showing off everything he possibly could. He did slightly fumble it a bit, but I probably would too if I was doing it constantly over the course of three days to everyone who walked up.
It was less about the rep, and more about the system seeming overly complex to me.
The SCAR is not a "polymer gun". It has a polymer lower receiver.
Issues with the G36 are that the barrel trunnion was shifting during heavy fire. I don't remember any complaints about the bolt mechanism.
As long as the side rails can be removed I will pick up one of these when I scrape together enough pennies :)
Hwikek,
The side rails themselves are removable but the mounting points for them are not as they are molded into the chassis. They stand proud by about 1/4" when the rails themselves are removed. I was actually looking at the rifle and trying to decide if I could fixture in such a way to mill them off and mill in some MOE slots for my Scout light mount.
Sounds fine to me :) can't wait to see them at the gun shops.
I hate how short the handguard is, i feel like that is a step backwards. The only plus i can see is for a SBR, but who knows when barrels will be available.
I have asked at numerous LGS to see about placing one on order. They all either refuse to check with their distributor/won't take special orders/lists. Realize it a sellers market but they are not doing themselves any favors. This attitude is the biggest problem I see with the ARX becoming a success or not based on availability. Know it is new rifle and may not be avaiable in distributors systems but you would think the LGS would at least be willing to check/start a list.
Larry Vickers
05-06-13, 14:33
Short rails/handguard is a direct by product of the 'quick' detach barrel setup and the need for the gas system to be uniform : meaning in the same spot regardless of barrel length
The SCAR has the same issue ; they set the gas system for the CQB length barrels then adapt longer barrels to it - this means now the easiest way from a design point of view to make this barrel change happen is to keep the handguard and rails at the CQB barrel length
Something has to give and the longer rail is it ; in addition to the fact that the engineers are not shooters per say and the longer rail interface being a higher priority than the ability to easily switch barrels is lost on them
There is no free lunch in life - or weapons design
Would like one if they keep the MSRP at $2k.
I have asked at numerous LGS to see about placing one on order. They all either refuse to check with their distributor/won't take special orders/lists.
Find a large volume gun dealer that is not a national chain that orders direct from Beretta as opposed to through a distributor. One of the large dealers here in Houston is apparently already taking pre-orders.
Short rails/handguard is a direct by product of the 'quick' detach barrel setup and the need for the gas system to be uniform : meaning in the same spot regardless of barrel length
The SCAR has the same issue ; they set the gas system for the CQB length barrels then adapt longer barrels to it - this means now the easiest way from a design point of view to make this barrel change happen is to keep the handguard and rails at the CQB barrel length
Something has to give and the longer rail is it ; in addition to the fact that the engineers are not shooters per say and the longer rail interface being a higher priority than the ability to easily switch barrels is lost on them
There is no free lunch in life - or weapons design
Shorter rail also cuts the overall weight down. If you're trying to shave a few ounces it's a place to get them from.
Of course, also selling a rail extension like FN does has benifits too. For FN anyway.
H
Short or long handguard, I can adjust. The problem I have is with the way the mounting points for the side rails were designed. Instead of making a smooth handguard area with mounting holes and designing rail segments to fit, they went with easy to design flat rails and stupid raised mounting points that get in the way of how many people will want the grip the handguard.
pointblank4445
05-07-13, 10:33
I see the benefit for this gun having the ability to be easily switched over to be a true left-handed configuration, but does Beretta intend for the right-handed end-user to swap ejection when switching shoulders?
I'm disappointed to see that they apparently made the grip non replaceable, and it has that damn finger groove on it. Earlier versions of the gun didn't have that on the grip. I hate that finger groove on the SCAR and some AR's, but at least you can always change the grip on those guns...
I'm disappointed to see that they apparently made the grip non replaceable, and it has that damn finger groove on it. Earlier versions of the gun didn't have that on the grip. I hate that finger groove on the SCAR and some AR's, but at least you can always change the grip on those guns...
I'm actually very happy that the grip isn't interchangeable. I like that it prevents people from playing grip of the month depending on their mood, even though I don't like the finger bump.
LibertyNeverDies
05-07-13, 16:16
For this rifle were to really compete with the AR15, Beretta would need to adapt the design for "customization." People love having a gun that is different from their peers' even if the only differences are aftermarket furniture. It might make a dent in the market but unless the price comes to sub $1500 and the users are given aftermarket customization options it will probably only reach SCAR popularity or a little more due to the lower MSRP.
I'm actually very happy that the grip isn't interchangeable. I like that it prevents people from playing grip of the month depending on their mood,
I wasn't aware that having options is a bad thing.
I'm actually very happy that the grip isn't interchangeable. I like that it prevents people from playing grip of the month depending on their mood, even though I don't like the finger bump.
:suicide:
So everybody has to be the same huh?
It is what it is, but I do love me some uniformity. :D
twistedcomrade
05-07-13, 21:08
I am excited to see Beretta has brought this rifle to market. This is one rifle I would be a beta tester on if I had the spare cash.
I prefer to confirm.
13 yrs army does that to people.
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All I know is that I like it, and I want one. Ever since I saw coverage of it at the 2011 SHOT SHOW. :D
I'm really intrigued by this rifle, especially as a left eye dominant, right handed shooter. I can have it eject left but can run he charging handle on the right. Seems very cool.
2 issues of concern:
I know they are selling with 300 blackout, but I have seen pics of the military variant with a different mag well and ak mags.... Would love that... but I've also bought into the "multi caliber" dream only to have it not be delivered.
Also, any have any idea how this would suppress? The open sided chamber is going to vent back pressure out of both sides. It also doesn't seem to have an adjustable gas system. Am I over thinking this?
I will probably get one with a 300 blackout barrel. I'll also get a short 556 barrel and pin a can to it (Washington doesn't allow sbrs).
D
I know what you mean about others who have promised multi caliber not delivering. That's one of the reasons I am seriously looking at this rifle and have been reading everything I can find on the military ARX160 as a result. I have read a lot of European reviews of the ARX160 (some in English and some via translation software) and I have learned the answer to some of your questions so here goes.
AK compatibility - There are AK mag pattern conversion kits out there but none have apparently left Beretta yet. Beretta has let members of the European gun press (it does exist :) ) test them and all reports I have read have been positive. It uses an AK style mag release and the bolt hold open function goes away, however.
Suppression - Italian SF issues a 12.5" version with a suppressor that reportedly works very well provided you use a snap in ejection port cover supplied by Beretta that completely closes off the unused ejection port. Shooting suppressed without this cover guarantees a face full of gas blowback. Now if we can just get Beretta to sell us the port cover. :D
jaybarbour
05-09-13, 14:55
I'm getting one in 5.56 and then getting the 7.62 kit when it comes out. Here is pics stolen from another thread on another board. I already have an ARX160 that my kid has been training on.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/jaybarbour/Beretta-ARX-160-762x39-01.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/jaybarbour/media/Beretta-ARX-160-762x39-01.jpg.html)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/jaybarbour/Beretta-ARX-160-762x39-14.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/jaybarbour/media/Beretta-ARX-160-762x39-14.jpg.html)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/jaybarbour/Beretta-ARX-160-762x39-29.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/jaybarbour/media/Beretta-ARX-160-762x39-29.jpg.html)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/jaybarbour/th.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/jaybarbour/media/th.jpg.html)
I know what you mean about others who have promised multi caliber not delivering. That's one of the reasons I am seriously looking at this rifle and have been reading everything I can find on the military ARX160 as a result. I have read a lot of European reviews of the ARX160 (some in English and some via translation software) and I have learned the answer to some of your questions so here goes.
AK compatibility - There are AK mag pattern conversion kits out there but none have apparently left Beretta yet. Beretta has let members of the European gun press (it does exist :) ) test them and all reports I have read have been positive. It uses an AK style mag release and the bolt hold open function goes away, however.
Suppression - Italian SF issues a 12.5" version with a suppressor that reportedly works very well provided you use a snap in ejection port cover supplied by Beretta that completely closes off the unused ejection port. Shooting suppressed without this cover guarantees a face full of gas blowback. Now if we can just get Beretta to sell us the port cover. :D
Really good intel. Thanks. Hopefully the AK mag well has a steel insert to lock the mag into. I'm ok with no hold open That snap in ejection port would be nice to have, even without a suppressor. If we can get even one, we could probably make them on a 3D printer. As for those pictures of the AK variant... that made me feel a little dirty. I have an extra 30 cal can floating around. 7.62x39 short barrel with a can would be pretty sweet.
Seriously though, there is no such thing as a do all, be all gun. But this system, in multiple calibers would make a pretty compelling piece of kit. Especially when combined with a 22LR twin for low cost training.
jaybarbour
05-09-13, 16:23
Really good intel. Thanks. Hopefully the AK mag well has a steel insert to lock the mag into. I'm ok with no hold open That snap in ejection port would be nice to have, even without a suppressor. If we can get even one, we could probably make them on a 3D printer. As for those pictures of the AK variant... that made me feel a little dirty. I have an extra 30 cal can floating around. 7.62x39 short barrel with a can would be pretty sweet.
Seriously though, there is no such thing as a do all, be all gun. But this system, in multiple calibers would make a pretty compelling piece of kit. Especially when combined with a 22LR twin for low cost training.
The only thing about the arx160 22lr is that it is similar in feel but functions completely different. You have to take the bolt out to change the charging handle, no AK style mag release. It's a bitch to clean out the inside as it's hard to get anything into the nooks inside where the bolt is. It's very accurate and the 30 round mags make it a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. I do hate the sights for low lighting but that is easily fixed.
I mainly want the 7.62 because it's cheap and easy to find even in times like these. I still want some kind of long range bolt action, just need to figure out what.
There are AK mag pattern conversion kits out there but none have apparently left Beretta yet.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/08/kazakhstan-special-forces-adopt-beretta-arx-160-7-62x39mm/ ;)
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/08/kazakhstan-special-forces-adopt-beretta-arx-160-7-62x39mm/ ;)
How the hell did I miss this? :confused:
On wait, posted 17 hours ago. After I went to sleep and I can't get to The Firearm Blog at work. :cool:
How the hell did I miss this? :confused:
On wait, posted 17 hours ago. After I went to sleep and I can't get to The Firearm Blog at work. :cool:
The best way to find new info that I have found is just to type into Google search "Beretta ARX-100 Pics" or "Beretta ARX-160 Pics" and just scan through all of the pictures until I see something new and click on it.
That's what works for me anyway... :D
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-09-13, 19:17
If the 7.62x39 conversion is viable then I might be a customer.
I have always admired Beretta's guns, but have owned only a few. This gun might change that. I am also very interested in the .308 version since I am less interested in poodle shooters these days.
High Tower
05-09-13, 19:20
I have asked at numerous LGS to see about placing one on order. They all either refuse to check with their distributor/won't take special orders/lists. Realize it a sellers market but they are not doing themselves any favors. This attitude is the biggest problem I see with the ARX becoming a success or not based on availability. Know it is new rifle and may not be avaiable in distributors systems but you would think the LGS would at least be willing to check/start a list.
Try checking with Beretta dealers with a higher dealer level. If they do not order the ARX's they are kah-razy as it is an easy sell and should count towards their minimum order levels to maintain their dealer level.
Obviously I don't know which stores you checked with so forgive me if I come across wrong. :cool:
From handling it at SHOT the first time they brought them, I think they are a fantastic little carbine. I'm hoping to snag one when they start shipping. The last I heard on these was August - any updates to this?
High Tower
05-16-13, 20:10
Beretta posted on facebook a couple of days ago that these rifles are 60 days out. Who's up for testing out the first batch?
Beretta posted on facebook a couple of days ago that these rifles are 60 days out. Who's up for testing out the first batch?
Have mine on order and hopefully the 60 day window will be true.
Seriously considering walking into one of the large local Beretta dealers and making the $1000 deposit to get in on the first shipment.
Of course my wife might shoot me with it once I got it. I have gone way over on the gun budget recently. :nono:
Gonna have to sell something to fund this one if I decide I want it.:sad:
Just wanted to let you guys know that I put my deposit down over at Collectors Firearms here in Houston, TX. Hopefully it won't be too long before I get that call. Thanks to everybody that has posted information about the ARX 100, it has helped a little in making my decision.
Littlelebowski
05-29-13, 11:55
I'd buy one if they had moved from MD.
Just wanted to let you guys know that I put my deposit down over at Collectors Firearms here in Houston, TX. Hopefully it won't be too long before I get that call. Thanks to everybody that has posted information about the ARX 100, it has helped a little in making my decision.
They are the most expensive gun store in Houston. Hope you don't overpay
I'd buy one if they had moved from MD.
They can't move from Maryland yet. Their M9 contract with DOD has very specific delivery requirements. Beretta cannot shut down production of M9s in Maryland and still meet the DOD contract.
That said, everything I have read says that they will be moving other parts of their operations out of Maryland in the coming months.
They are the most expensive gun store in Houston. Hope you don't overpay
They are probably not the cheapest in town but that's okay. It's a business. A well run business because they have been open since 1975, so they are doing something right and I respect that. Its not the only place I go to here in Houston but it's the only place that is a dealer for Beretta and not going through a distributor. Beretta has asked all dealer's to respect MSRP and I am ok with that price and I am sure that they will respect that price ;)
From Beretta's website.
Beretta Dealers:
Gander Mountain
American Shooting Centers
Tactical Firearms
Briley Manufacturing Company
Bass Pro
From Beretta's website.
Beretta Dealers:
Gander Mountain
American Shooting Centers
Tactical Firearms
Briley Manufacturing Company
Bass Pro
Carter Country is also a direct Beretta dealer. Not sure why they are not listed, especially since their range is where Beretta held the firing demo before the NRA show. They are taking preorders at the $1950 MSRP but want a $1000 deposit. What did Collector's ask for as a deposit?
Collectors Firearms asked for $500 deposit
Moose-Knuckle
05-29-13, 15:25
Good to hear that these are going to be a reality here soon.
Collectors Firearms asked for $500 deposit
That's good. A few years ago they made a guy I used to work with pay the entire amount in advance on a preorder.
Now I just have to decide if I really want to switch away from my ACR. :confused:
BoringGuy45
05-29-13, 20:41
That's good. A few years ago they made a guy I used to work with pay the entire amount in advance on a preorder.
Now I just have to decide if I really want to switch away from my ACR. :confused:
Got to feel the .22 version a few days ago. Wasn't nuts about the ergonomics myself, but to each his own.
They are probably not the cheapest in town but that's okay. It's a business. A well run business because they have been open since 1975, so they are doing something right and I respect that. Its not the only place I go to here in Houston but it's the only place that is a dealer for Beretta and not going through a distributor. Beretta has asked all dealer's to respect MSRP and I am ok with that price and I am sure that they will respect that price ;)
From Beretta's website.
Beretta Dealers:
Gander Mountain
American Shooting Centers
Tactical Firearms
Briley Manufacturing Company
Bass Pro
When I was buying an Ed Brown a few years ago, Collectors was one of the few places with them in stock. They were selling them for $200 over MSRP. I tried to get them to come down.. They came down to $150 over MSRP and told me "they we hard to get." I passed... Them went home and looked on the Ed Brown website...
Collectors was an authorized distributor listed on the Ed Brown website.. Ridiculous.
And, anyone can call up and order straight from Ed Brown. Back then, the wait was not that long. Wanna charge extra, fine.. But don't lie about it.
Back in my P99 days, they also sold used ones for the price of new ones. I like to go there to look, as they can't be beat in terms of the inventory they have. But their prices are ridiculous. I hope you get it for MSRP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uWk19fWzKQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uWk19fWzKQc
Dat barrel and caliber change.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bkj3km5vc03l/610x.jpg
KiloSierra
06-08-13, 16:54
Got to feel the .22 version a few days ago. Wasn't nuts about the ergonomics myself, but to each his own.
My local gunshop just got one in a few days ago. My only complaint ergonomics wise was the height versus width of the forearm. It felt like two MOE forearms stuck together on the bottom and then put on a rifle.
LibertyNeverDies
12-23-13, 11:02
I'm starting to see the ARX100 at the online dealers but without an add to cart option. Has anyone heard anything about when they are actually going to hit the market?
High Tower
12-23-13, 11:27
I'm starting to see the ARX100 at the online dealers but without an add to cart option. Has anyone heard anything about when they are actually going to hit the market?
Who knows anymore. They said July which has long come and gone. A few weeks ago there was something on their facebook machine saying it was coming soon. I don't understand how these companies can't work with their marketing departments to get the press release and actual release at the same time.
I find the gun intresting. 5.56 is not the caliber that gets me though. I would like to see this gun in 300blk as a SBR or 7.62x39 as an SBR. I feel that this could be a good option for vehicle work. This of course is without firing it or beating it like she needs.
Also I was unable to tell, the ejection direction can be changed, but can the charging handle? I hate charging handles on the strong (right) side. See Mk.17
Who knows anymore. They said July which has long come and gone. A few weeks ago there was something on their facebook machine saying it was coming soon. I don't understand how these companies can't work with their marketing departments to get the press release and actual release at the same time.
That would assume they care. Beretta hasn't cared for a couple of decades now. With them, assume it will hit dealer shelves somewhere between a year past due and when hell freezes over. :(
txf15crewchief
12-25-13, 18:50
I believe it was a member here who said it best, "Beretta couldn't market free sex".
If remember correctly, their rep told me at the NRA Convention it was 6 weeks from release then. I expect sometime between next month and never. I hope I'm wrong.
Maryland just passed several anti-gun bills. These new laws are making it tough for Beretta to do business there. I believe they are moving operations to South Carolina. This could be part of the problem with getting the ARX-100 to market. Not sure, but I have seen an interview with one of their lawyers recently. He mentioned the new laws, the impact they would have on Beretta and the move to a pro-gun state.
If this rifle proves to be multi-caliber, I would be interested but I need to see conversion kits first. Been burned far too may times.
Way to pricey for me to buy.
I find the gun intresting. 5.56 is not the caliber that gets me though. I would like to see this gun in 300blk as a SBR or 7.62x39 as an SBR. I feel that this could be a good option for vehicle work. This of course is without firing it or beating it like she needs.
Also I was unable to tell, the ejection direction can be changed, but can the charging handle? I hate charging handles on the strong (right) side. See Mk.17
Yes, the charging handle is super easy to change. And from 5.56 to the .30blk you just need a barrel change, something very easy with the ARX
High Tower
02-04-14, 19:41
I noticed that Acusport has the ARX in 5.56 cataloged online. This is good news as it probably means it will be shipping somewhat soon.
Any updates on the 7.62x39 version?
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
02-22-14, 20:34
Any updates on the 7.62x39 version?
No idea on when conversions will be offered but distributors have started listing them. They're backorder however. Larger dealers will likely get priority but I've got a couple of units on order myself. Hope we actually see them soon.
Are you stuck with the A2 pistol grip on this one? Looks like its part of the trigger pack, sorry if this has been addressed already.
Are you stuck with the A2 pistol grip on this one? Looks like its part of the trigger pack, sorry if this has been addressed already.
Yes, the grip is not removable. Most people can't stand that part about the ARX but I love it.
Sent a message to Beretta on their FB asking them to post photos of the pallets of ARX-100s, they should be getting ready to ship to distributors since the latest release date according to Beretta is April, 2014 so they should have them produced. They came back with the reply that that was a good idea but no photos yet. Hopefully they will post photos of ARX-100s ready for shipping and they will actually ship in Apr.
Sent a message to Beretta on their FB asking them to post photos of the pallets of ARX-100s, they should be getting ready to ship to distributors since the latest release date according to Beretta is April, 2014 so they should have them produced. They came back with the reply that that was a good idea but no photos yet. Hopefully they will post photos of ARX-100s ready for shipping and they will actually ship in Apr.
Don't get my hopes up! :laugh:
Issues with the G36 are that the barrel trunnion was shifting during heavy fire.
There is no documented evidence of this being factual information, let alone any documentation on how hard a weapon had to be pushed to have any sort of POI shift.
ETA: But I do not want to turn this into a G36 debate as that isn't this thread. Just ensuring conjecture based on a tabloid article isn't proliferated as fact.
DontCome2MyHouse
03-21-14, 23:05
What's the shortest barrel option?
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This was amazing when it was introduced, now? It's too little too late, better things have came along in the years waiting for this rifle, and now I doubt this will even have enough to out sell the Bushmaster ACR. It was cool. Now it's just a rifle that has lost interest with many, Before they ever got their hands on it.
The tavor laid this rifle to rest.
This was amazing when it was introduced, now? It's too little too late, better things have came along in the years waiting for this rifle, and now I doubt this will even have enough to out sell the Bushmaster ACR. It was cool. Now it's just a rifle that has lost interest with many, Before they ever got their hands on it.
The tavor laid this rifle to rest.
Too little too late? The ARX was only just designed in 2008 and barely entered service a couple of years ago. Italy placed their first order in 2012.
There is no debate as to what the more modern weapon is. The ARX looks funky but it's feature rich and versatile in ways the Tavor is not, but the Tavor is a bullpup so it's something of an apple to oranges scenario.
Too little too late? The ARX was only just designed in 2008 and barely entered service a couple of years ago. Italy placed their first order in 2012.
There is no debate as to what the more modern weapon is. The ARX looks funky but it's feature rich and versatile in ways the Tavor is not, but the Tavor is a bullpup so it's something of an apple to oranges scenario.
I'm not saying either is a better service weapon, I'm only stating ppl have lost interest in this rifle since the release of the tavor with offered many of the same features that the arx does, execpt the tavor wins in one major category... I can go out and buy one today.
I'm not saying either is a better service weapon, I'm only stating ppl have lost interest in this rifle since the release of the tavor with offered many of the same features that the arx does, execpt the tavor wins in one major category... I can go out and buy one today.
Presuming there is some swath of consumers aware of and cross shopping Tavors and ARX100's.
Though I am skeptical because ARX's main selling points is being completely ambidextrous out the box without tools or additional parts, with QD barrel, and multi-caliber with adjustable gas system carbine that is $500 less than the SCAR, and not gimped like the ACR.
Presuming there is some swath of consumers aware of and cross shopping Tavors and ARX100's.
Though I am skeptical because ARX's main selling points is being completely ambidextrous out the box without tools or additional parts, with QD barrel, and multi-caliber with adjustable gas system carbine that is $500 less than the SCAR, and not gimped like the ACR.
Your right for the most part ppl with money today don't know about both maybe one if they're lucky, but let's say they know about the arx and it's features, walk into their LGS today to buy one not knowing that the arx hasn't been released yet (despite the endless promising from beretta that there on their way) and the LGS employee says we don't have that rifle yet and shows them the tavor that offers many of the same features, in a more aesthetically pleasing package, and then tell the person he isn't sure when the arx is going to hit shelves(if ever). What do you think that person is going to do?
Might take the tavor or might take the $600 dpms sitting next to it. Chances are tho is isn't going to wait, I've waited and lost all interest in this rifle. He might take his money home and just lose interest all together and not get any of them.
But at this point in time beretta isn't getting any money. So either way at this point the tavor is winning and is the better rifle because You can't cross shop or compete with a product that isn't for sale.
Also the tavor might need a new bolt and a tool or two, but the average consumer is only going to use this function once, set it to their liking and never switch it back. Or just buy the left handed (or right) version to begin with. And never have to worry about it if it works for them.
Your right for the most part ppl with money today don't know about both maybe one if they're lucky, but let's say they know about the arx and it's features, walk into their LGS today to buy one not knowing that the arx hasn't been released yet (despite the endless promising from beretta that there on their way) and the LGS employee says we don't have that rifle yet and shows them the tavor that offers many of the same features, in a more aesthetically pleasing package, and then tell the person he isn't sure when the arx is going to hit shelves(if ever). What do you think that person is going to do?
Might take the tavor or might take the $600 dpms sitting next to it. Chances are tho is isn't going to wait. He might take his money home and just lose interest all together and not get any of them.
But at this point in time beretta isn't getting any money. So either way at this point the tavor is winning. You can't cross shop with a product that isn't for sale.
The Tavor was designed back in the 1990's and does not offer the same features as the ARX. If one were shopping for the features of the ARX, the Tavor would be deficient in comparison and therefore would get passed over unless one were willing to settle. If one were shopping for a Tavor, which would suggest they want a bullpup, then the ARX would probably not be a contender.
Either way, it's wide of the mark to say there is some rush on Tavors because the ARX is still in development when the two are only competitors in the sense that they take up shelf space. Big picture, there are few people saying "Damn I really want an ARX, but I guess I'll get a Tavor." Especially when the SCAR, ACR and MRP are much closer to being an ARX than the Tavor.
Furthermore, the delay came as the result of adding CHF chrome lined barrels, more aluminum parts, and adjustable gas, so the ARX will be a better product. Nothing pisses people off more than being beta testers.
If you interpret that as the Tavor "winning", that's your call.
The Tavor was designed back in the 1990's and does not offer the same features as the ARX. If one were shopping for the features of the ARX, the Tavor would be deficient in comparison and therefore would get passed over unless one were willing to settle. If one were shopping for a Tavor, which would suggest they want a bullpup, then the ARX would probably not be a contender.
Either way, it's wide of the mark to say there is some rush on Tavors because the ARX is still in development when the two are only competitors in the sense that they take up shelf space. Big picture, there are few people saying "Damn I really want an ARX, but I guess I'll get a Tavor." Especially when the SCAR, ACR and MRP are much closer to being an ARX than the Tavor.
Furthermore, the delay came as the result of adding CHF chrome lined barrels, more aluminum parts, and adjustable gas, so the ARX will be a better product. Nothing pisses people off more than being beta testers.
If you interpret that as the Tavor "winning", that's your call.
I'm really not trying to compare the two. The ARX was a great concept and hasn't proven to be anything more than that.
I also don't think it has anything to do with a tavor being a bullpup.
I think it's a ambi rifle with the capabilities of switching calibers to fit the end users needs in more ways than a AR can without the need of a new rifle, a general muti purpose rifle. Again disregarding the fact the tavor is a bullpup, just another rifle.
Also if this had anything to do with the age of the design we would be talking about it on a different website than this one which is dedicated to a stoner design yet still proves time in and time out that it is still is the best rifle that is most adaptive to our ever changing needs.
I'm really not trying to compare the two. The ARX was a great concept and hasn't proven to be anything more than that.
The ARX is much more than a concept with some European forces being issued the ARX-160 since 2009. It has seen combat service in A-Stan with the Italians. The fact that it has not hit the US civilian market is more of a testament to our import regulations...
DontCome2MyHouse
03-22-14, 08:43
One of the best selling points to me is that the ARX requires VERY little lubrication. According to Beretta's video on their website only a small drop of oil is required on the extractor and ejector on the bolt face. Pretty nice.
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The ARX is much more than a concept with some European forces being issued the ARX-160 since 2009. It has seen combat service in A-Stan with the Italians. The fact that it has not hit the US civilian market is more of a testament to our import regulations...
The ARX-100’s are made in the USA under the Beretta USA division.
And it's not actually available yet. Supposedly the first half of 2014. Beretta USA made some revisions to improve the design which delayed the release.
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The ARX-100’s are made in the USA under the Beretta USA division.
And it's not actually available yet. Supposedly the first half of 2014. Beretta USA made some revisions to improve the design which delayed the release.
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I'm aware of this. I was replying to JulyAZ's post that the ARX was only a concept. By referring to the ARX family, he lumped the military production ARX-160 in with the proposed civilian ARX-100 as being a concept. That is analagous to saying that the HK G36 is only a concept because the HK243/293 are not yet available in the US.
My other point is that we would have seen an Italian made ARX-type weapon (and plenty of other German, Swiss, or Belgian products) in the US years ago if it were not for various stupid import / export laws. Beretta, or any other manufacturer for that matter, would much rather use existing production facilities in their home country to produce weapons for export. The fact that we are waiting for a US production model is a consequence of our ability to elect the biggest idiots from both political parties.
I'm aware of this. I was replying to JulyAZ's post that the ARX was only a concept. By referring to the ARX family, he lumped the military production ARX-160 in with the proposed civilian ARX-100 as being a concept. That is analagous to saying that the HK G36 is only a concept because the HK243/293 are not yet available in the US.
My other point is that we would have seen an Italian made ARX-type weapon (and plenty of other German, Swiss, or Belgian products) in the US years ago if it were not for various stupid import / export laws. Beretta, or any other manufacturer for that matter, would much rather use existing production facilities in their home country to produce weapons for export. The fact that we are waiting for a US production model is a consequence of our ability to elect the biggest idiots from both political parties.
While true, the reg is de facto protectionism that results in job creation and manufacturing domestically.
The import ban was a bigger deal 10 years ago. These days FN, HK, Beretta and SIG all have enough facilities to build their latest in the states and circumvent the important ban.
Perfectly evidenced by massive influx of new designs for commercial purchase in the last 5 years. On the global gun scene we aren't missing out on much in the USA.
I'm aware of this. I was replying to JulyAZ's post that the ARX was only a concept. By referring to the ARX family, he lumped the military production ARX-160 in with the proposed civilian ARX-100 as being a concept. That is analagous to saying that the HK G36 is only a concept because the HK243/293 are not yet available in the US.
My other point is that we would have seen an Italian made ARX-type weapon (and plenty of other German, Swiss, or Belgian products) in the US years ago if it were not for various stupid import / export laws. Beretta, or any other manufacturer for that matter, would much rather use existing production facilities in their home country to produce weapons for export. The fact that we are waiting for a US production model is a consequence of our ability to elect the biggest idiots from both political parties.
I'm not lumping service weapons with civilian weapons. I'm just trying to say the arx was a great rifle that had a lot of ppl holding money in their hands for it (as I was) and kept getting told that it will be out soon. Then these other weapons that offer a lot of the same selling points of the arx have been released, giving ppl other options. I think a lot of ppl such as me and others that I know are tried of waiting for it. The veil of this weapon is gone and so is a lot of the demand that came with this rifle when it was first introduced to be sold to the US civilian market.
While true, the reg is de facto protectionism that results in job creation and manufacturing domestically.
The import ban was a bigger deal 10 years ago. These days FN, HK, Beretta and SIG all have enough facilities to build their latest in the states and circumvent the important ban.
Perfectly evidenced by massive influx of new designs for commercial purchase in the last 5 years. On the global gun scene we aren't missing out on much in the USA.
Of the companies that you've listed, only FN has the domestic production record to match their European quality standards; even their crown jewel, the SCAR, has a number of key parts manufactured in Belgium. Sig's domestically produced 556 rifles have been a disaster compared to their Swiss cousins. HK's domestic rifle production looks nothing like the 416, G36, G3 / 91, etc. So, I do not mind if Beretta spends a few years being their production AND support capability up to par before releasing their product on the masses.
crazymoose
03-23-14, 12:24
The Tavor was designed back in the 1990's and does not offer the same features as the ARX. If one were shopping for the features of the ARX, the Tavor would be deficient in comparison and therefore would get passed over unless one were willing to settle. If one were shopping for a Tavor, which would suggest they want a bullpup, then the ARX would probably not be a contender.
Either way, it's wide of the mark to say there is some rush on Tavors because the ARX is still in development when the two are only competitors in the sense that they take up shelf space. Big picture, there are few people saying "Damn I really want an ARX, but I guess I'll get a Tavor." Especially when the SCAR, ACR and MRP are much closer to being an ARX than the Tavor.
For the consumer who purchases based on hard criteria, I agree. But I think you're discounting the "I want something cool and modern looking that isn't an AR or AK" crowd. That mentality doesn't make much sense to a lot of the people on this forum, but it does put quite a bit of cash into the bank accounts of gun manufacturers.
For the consumer who purchases based on hard criteria, I agree. But I think you're discounting the "I want something cool and modern looking that isn't an AR or AK" crowd. That mentality doesn't make much sense to a lot of the people on this forum, but it does put quite a bit of cash into the bank accounts of gun manufacturers.
True enough.
I'm looking forward to these becoming available. Especially at a sub-$2000 price point. I thought they were hideous at first but the more I look at it, the more functional it looks.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/0a303f9c0e612f40adb67bda739de267/tumblr_n1rnevu9SR1skaxu8o1_1280.jpg
For the consumer who purchases based on hard criteria, I agree. But I think you're discounting the "I want something cool and modern looking that isn't an AR or AK" crowd. That mentality doesn't make much sense to a lot of the people on this forum, but it does put quite a bit of cash into the bank accounts of gun manufacturers.
I guess you could throw me in that category. I'm much more of a collector than an "operator". I find the different variations of military style firearms very interesting.
Me too, but I refer to myself as an 'accumulator'... Collectors put them in safes and don't shoot them :-)
I guess you could throw me in that category. I'm much more of a collector than an "operator". I find the different variations of military style firearms very interesting.
Same here. My collecting is with the intent of having my own personal reference collection of various MSRs.
The ARX-100 is coming! Check Beretta's Facebook page!
The ARX-100 is coming! Check Beretta's Facebook page!
Can't wait for them and the HK 293 to finally be available! :)
Nice. Lets see if the rumored price of $1500 is anywhere close to reality.
Nice. Lets see if the rumored price of $1500 is anywhere close to reality.
I'm betting that the first batch will go for considerably more on the auction sites. It may take a few months for production to catch up with demand.
Nice. Lets see if the rumored price of $1500 is anywhere close to reality.
When was the price ever said to be that low? I thought Beretta had been promising a price under $2000.
I believe that the MSRP is $1950 which means that street price may be around $1700. However, the first batch will command a premium on the auction sites.
When was the price ever said to be that low? I thought Beretta had been promising a price under $2000.
That $1500 street price rumor has been floating around for over a year after someone in beretta referred to it as the "sweet spot" for carbine pricing.
That was back on 2012 I believe. But these are all rumors, not gospel. We'll find out soon.
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I've been watching and posting in this thread since the first page. The only mention of $1500 was from a forum member on page 5 who said that he was not interested unless it came in under this price point. I've also kept a close eye on similar threads in LF and Berettaforum.net. I've never heard anyone from Beretta mention anything other than the $1950 MSRP.
Provided that the rifle is reasonably accurate, reliable, and durable, I bet that it would sell like hotcakes even at a street price $1950. At $1950 it is still cheaper than the going price for the enhanced ACR and SCAR.
The real competition is probably the Tavor which has a similar MSRP. Beretta will do well IF they make good on their promise for multiple calibers and barrel lengths.
High Tower
04-13-14, 18:43
Dealer cost on the ARX is barely under $1500. So if they want to keep their lights on, employees paid, etc it will be more than $1500.
ETA: so barely under may not have been the right way to say that, but my guess is that it will still be over $1500.
As with all new things any dealer selling these under msrp initially will be losing money due to demand, look at the Tavor as an example. You can now find them on gunbroker for $1650 when a year ago they were going for almost double that. Once the demand dies and they are readily available I expect prices to hover around the $1600 price point at a roughly 10% margin for dealers.
As with all new things any dealer selling these under msrp initially will be losing money due to demand, look at the Tavor as an example. You can now find them on gunbroker for $1650 when a year ago they were going for almost double that. Once the demand dies and they are readily available I expect prices to hover around the $1600 price point at a roughly 10% margin for dealers.
+1 Not to mention it's good to let others iron out all the initial problems.
+1 Not to mention it's good to let others iron out all the initial problems.
Yep, I think I'll wait a few months. Besides, I like my weapons the same way I like my women - hot, Italian, and brown...
I think the $1500 rumors came from here: http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/beretta-model-arx100-rifle-jxr11600-remington-tele-rail-p-46171.html
Hinterland outfitters had to go on a couple of forums to point out that the price is a placeholder and they wont know how much it costs until they get them in.
Beretta's Facebook page is saying it's ready to ship!
Beretta's Facebook page is saying it's ready to ship!
Music to my ears, can't wait to get a hold of one since I suspect that unlike the PX4 it will be an example of Beretta's high quality products.
I'll wait until after the first rush dies down, but I'm interested in it. Just curious how it handles compared to the SCAR 16... guess I'll have to wait to try one out at the range!
$1500 bothers me. Corners will be cut on this rifle. This rifle will be another failure.
$1500 bothers me. Corners will be cut on this rifle. This rifle will be another failure.
The MSRP is not $1500.00 it is $1950.00
$1500 bothers me. Corners will be cut on this rifle. This rifle will be another failure.
Other than being semiauto, what's significantly different about this rifle than the fullauto original? I think the design should be good to go given the fullauto version has been out for a while and has even gone to war. The only thing that I'm a little wary of is the fact that it's being manufactured in a new location. There might be some initial manufacturing and/or QC problems, but Beretta will work through them.
teutonicpolymer
04-15-14, 20:13
$1500 bothers me. Corners will be cut on this rifle. This rifle will be another failure.
since when does $1500 = junk?
since when does even $1000 = junk
this isn't SIG we are talking about here
$1500 bothers me. Corners will be cut on this rifle. This rifle will be another failure.
Inaccurate facts + rush to judgement
Is it too much to ask that people read at least the last 10 posts in a thread before contributing?
They are starting to show up on shelves and Gunsamerica.com...
I received my ARX-100 today. I had ordered it last year and I got the call today. It looks great. I shipped in a cardboard outer box and a soft Beretta ARX-100 case. (see picture)http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g360/EODCOLRET/e18615f746377f16f85c995df97385a1.jpg
It came with two metal magazines, sling and manual. It was a long wait but think it will be worth it.
WickedWillis
05-08-14, 16:56
since when does $1500 = junk?
since when does even $1000 = junk
this isn't SIG we are talking about here
Throwing the SIG line in there was necessary, right? If Beretta was even on par with SIG when it came to rifles.
I received my ARX-100 today. I had ordered it last year and I got the call today. It looks great. I shipped in a cardboard outer box and a soft Beretta ARX-100 case. (see picture)http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g360/EODCOLRET/e18615f746377f16f85c995df97385a1.jpg
It came with two metal magazines, sling and manual. It was a long wait but think it will be worth it.
Let us know how it shoots!
Inaccurate facts + rush to judgement
Is it too much to ask that people read at least the last 10 posts in a thread before contributing?
No it isn't a rush to judgement.
It is a statement based on all the previous failures of several manufactures over the past decade trying to bring their flagship assault rifle to market.
That $1500 street price rumor has been floating around for over a year after someone in beretta referred to it as the "sweet spot" for carbine pricing.
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Translation:
The gun is built to a price point and corners are cut.
If $1500 = Junk, then my $1000 Colt AR15 must not even be worthy of the trash can. Seriously, if it was as easy as finding the one with the highest price, then all we'd have to look at is the MSRP. There's obviously more to it than that, so how about actually shooting the rifle yourself before passing judgment.
The rifle is not currently being priced at $1500. That was merely a rumor, why do people keep spreading that rumor? I can't imagine Beretta launching a new high end product at a price that far below $2K. If you expected it to launch at $1500 then you over estimated the attempts to keep the price from being insane.
The rifle is not currently being priced at $1500. That was merely a rumor, why do people keep spreading that rumor? I can't imagine Beretta launching a new high end product at a price that far below $2K. If you expected it to launch at $1500 then you over estimated the attempts to keep the price from being insane.
I know how much they are at dealer cost. $1500 wont happen but $1600 is at normal markup for most gun stores once the initial craze goes down.
That sounds about right. I'm just not sure why people thought the initial price would be close to that figure. If the ARX turns out to be like the Tavor then we could expect prices to drop significantly by this time next year. You can always dream right?
If $1500 = Junk, then my $1000 Colt AR15 must not even be worthy of the trash can. Seriously, if it was as easy as finding the one with the highest price, then all we'd have to look at is the MSRP. There's obviously more to it than that, so how about actually shooting the rifle yourself before passing judgment.
A colt sells for $1000 because of the volume these are made in. The tooling and logistics are already paid for. There is also no importation involved.
A colt sells for $1000 because of the volume these are made in. The tooling and logistics are already paid for. There is also no importation involved.
The tooling for the ARX has been around for at least 6 years and there are no foreign importation costs for a rifle that is produced in Maryland. There are other factors such as Beretta's ability to spread production costs across multiple product lines using economies of scale. Also, the conventional wisdom is that material costs for modern polymer firearms such as the ARX, Glock, or HK are cheaper than earlier generation alloy weapons such as the AR.
Regardless of what you think, nobody is buying your argument that a new rifle cannot be produced to standard at a retail price of $1995. Hell, the ARX isn't even a new rifle - the damn thing has been around since 2008.
What kind of accuracy have people been getting from their ARX 100s? I'd hope it was able to hold to at least 2 MOA out to 300m. Once I find one in stock nearby I'll be quick to decide on whether or not I will get one.
The tooling for the ARX has been around for at least 6 years and there are no foreign importation costs for a rifle that is produced in Maryland. There are other factors such as Beretta's ability to spread production costs across multiple product lines using economies of scale. Also, the conventional wisdom is that material costs for modern polymer firearms such as the ARX, Glock, or HK are cheaper than earlier generation alloy weapons such as the AR.
Regardless of what you think, nobody is buying your argument that a new rifle cannot be produced to standard at a retail price of $1995. Hell, the ARX isn't even a new rifle - the damn thing has been around since 2008.
Compared to a rifle that had been made for 50 years.
The ARX is not paid for and most of it is not made in Maryland.
Compared to a rifle that had been made for 50 years.
The ARX is not paid for and most of it is not made in Maryland.
Well, let's see. The market for $1700+ rifles is can be a rough place. For every gem like the Tavor, there are 2 or 3 stones like the XCR, ACR, etc.
Well, let's see. The market for $1700+ rifles is can be a rough place. For every gem like the Tavor, there are 2 or 3 stones like the XCR, ACR, etc.
The only rifle that I would call a success right away is the Tavor. The SCAR would have been more successful, if the SBR barrels were available sooner.
The second run of Vltor/Steyr AUGs is also successful.
The:
SIG556
ACR
XCR
HK 556
are all dicked up.
The Sig556 is more of a $1200+- rifle.
I had a Sig556 and it was pretty obvious that SigUSA cut corners to make a price point.
1) MIM crap iron sights.
2) Ill fitting furniture that rattled.
3) Nitride instead of hardchrome.
4) Gas piston made with stamped tube.
5) Incorrectly made gas regulator.
6) Rough, cheap trigger components.
7) AR style trigger guard.
The list goes on.
H
Looks like something Master Chief from Halo would carry.
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Tzintzuntzan
05-11-14, 20:40
Looks like something Master Chief from Halo would carry.
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Have you even played Halo? It doesn't look like any of the in game weapons I remember.
I had a Sig556 and it was pretty obvious that SigUSA cut corners to make a price point.
1) MIM crap iron sights.
2) Ill fitting furniture that rattled.
3) Nitride instead of hardchrome.
4) Gas piston made with stamped tube.
5) Incorrectly made gas regulator.
6) Rough, cheap trigger components.
7) AR style trigger guard.
The list goes on.
H
The gas piston of Swiss 55x is made using a hollow tube mated to the machined piston head and machined rear bolt carrier interface. Early 556s had similar gas pistons as the Swiss guns. Shortly after the very initial run, pistons were fully machined, with fluting to reduce the weight to that of the Swiss piston.
The 556 sucks, and has sucked from the beginning. But the gas piston was actually well done.
The 550 gas pistons I've seen pics of were solid and fluted. If they were multi piece the joins were invisible.
The 556 was thin wall tubing with the piston head and tail swaged on.
H
The 550 gas pistons I've seen pics of were solid and fluted. If they were multi piece the joins were invisible.
The 556 was thin wall tubing with the piston head and tail swaged on.
H
That may be a recent change in newer production guns, but outside of the 553 I've never seen a Swiss-made gas piston that was of the solid fluted type. I heard SAN may have switched to solid fluted pistons on their recent production 550 and 551. The 553 piston is solid (well two piece, but essentially solid) and fluted. Every Swiss 550 and 551 piston I've had in my hands has been as I previously described.
It makes sense with current CNC machining capabilities to fab the piston as a solid fluted piece, so it would not surprise me if SAN changed the design once they ran out of NOS spares.
for those that are interested, Yes, I bought one:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=262602
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=262666
for those that are interested, Yes, I bought one:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=262602
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=262666
I applaud your fulfilling the vital task of beta testing these for us.
H
I just had to add one to the library, plus I'm excited to play with the 7.62 AK conversion...
Eric
I applaud your fulfilling the vital task of beta testing these for us.
H
I'll probably get one once the 7.62x39 kits come out. That should be enough time to work out any bugs and I'll get to shoot my stash of AK ammo.
H
Moose-Knuckle
05-13-14, 17:44
Witht he AR platform the new thing is going with a KeyMod rail so as to keep everthing small and handy. The new Beretta has a HUGE fore-end, going backwards IMHO.
WickedWillis
05-13-14, 18:34
Witht he AR platform the new thing is going with a KeyMod rail so as to keep everthing small and handy. The new Beretta has a HUGE fore-end, going backwards IMHO.
I'll wait to pass judgement on the size of the handrail until I actually get to handle one, it really might be smaller than we think. I do think the rifle is ass-end ugly however.
Moose-Knuckle
05-13-14, 19:27
I'll wait to pass judgement on the size of the handrail until I actually get to handle one, it really might be smaller than we think. I do think the rifle is ass-end ugly however.
Not so much a judgement more of an observation. Have not seen one in the wild as of yet, will ask handle one as soon as I spy one at a LGS.
Redbeardsong
05-13-14, 19:37
Clyde Armory has these in stock. Beretta is selling these only to LE/Mil/First responders at the moment.
SpyderMan2k4
05-13-14, 19:48
I can't help but think the success of this will be closely tied to the quick availability of barrels and/or conversion kits. I've long wanted a .556 carbine with a quick change barrel system and a 300BLK, and I doubt I'm the only one that's been waiting.
Clyde Armory has these in stock. Beretta is selling these only to LE/Mil/First responders at the moment.
That is an interesting way to get people interested….tell them they are available, but that they can't have them yet.
Tzintzuntzan
05-13-14, 22:38
Clyde Armory has these in stock. Beretta is selling these only to LE/Mil/First responders at the moment.
Sucks to hear that :angry:. But who knows maybe the price will have come down by the time they are fully available.
The ones for sale in gunbroker aren't restricted.
There were 6 there last night.
H
I know how much they are at dealer cost. $1500 wont happen but $1600 is at normal markup for most gun stores once the initial craze goes down.
Close: $1,549.95
Though I wonder if that is LEO only pricing and if retail will creep up a few hundred.
http://clydearmory.com/beretta-arx100.html
Clyde Armory has these in stock. Beretta is selling these only to LE/Mil/First responders at the moment.
Well that was easy. I was trying to talk myself out of wanting one after some of the feedback I heard from overseas use.
Any company that does this crap gets none of my hard earned baht. Gator don't play them games.
Guess I'll just...not buy one. Now maybe I'll get a 6.5CM barrel and SBR the .308. Thanks Beretta, for making up my mind for me.
I can't help but think the success of this will be closely tied to the quick availability of barrels and/or conversion kits. I've long wanted a .556 carbine with a quick change barrel system and a 300BLK, and I doubt I'm the only one that's been waiting.
I agree, plus that ugly short hand guard is screaming to be sbr'd.
Clyde Armory has these in stock. Beretta is selling these only to LE/Mil/First responders at the moment.
That is an interesting way to get people interested….tell them they are available, but that they can't have them yet.
There were 6 on Gunsamerica.com last night that could be had for $1600-1700. There were a couple more listed on Sturm for $1600. These could be bought by anybody. The Clydearmory deal is their own in-house special for service members and first responders.
Redbeardsong
05-16-14, 08:29
There were 6 on Gunsamerica.com last night that could be had for $1600-1700. There were a couple more listed on Sturm for $1600. These could be bought by anybody. The Clydearmory deal is their own in-house special for service members and first responders.
No, the restrictions come from Beretta, not Clyde Armory. Clyde Armory is a Beretta LE distributor and is bound by Beretta's distributor agreement which stipulates to whom we are allowed to sell LE program guns.
As the retail sales manager, I would love to sell these guns to anyone who wants one, but Beretta disallows it at the moment.
The ARX-100 has only been released through the LE side of the company, so I would guess the guns on Gunbroker are either being flipped or sold by LE dealers in violation of their agreement.
No, the restrictions come from Beretta, not Clyde Armory. Clyde Armory is a Beretta LE distributor and is bound by Beretta's distributor agreement which stipulates to whom we are allowed to sell LE program guns.
As the retail sales manager, I would love to sell these guns to anyone who wants one, but Beretta disallows it at the moment.
The ARX-100 has only been released through the LE side of the company, so I would guess the guns on Gunbroker are either being flipped or sold by LE dealers in violation of their agreement.
Jay's Guns and SW Firearms all sold multiple ARX's on either Sturm or Gunsamerica. In addition, a couple of people on Berettaforum.net have posted pics and videos of their ARX's that were purchased at LGS's. All of these came from LE dealers?
Redbeardsong
05-16-14, 10:08
Jay's Guns and SW Firearms all sold multiple ARX's on either Sturm or Gunsamerica. In addition, a couple of people on Berettaforum.net have posted pics and videos of their ARX's that were purchased at LGS's. All of these came from LE dealers?
I don't know whether they are or not. I'm only telling you that the LE/Mil restriction is coming from Beretta, not us.
Redbeardsong
05-16-14, 11:01
Ok, I got some updated info. Apparently the commercial ARX's shipped out a couple of days after the LE side, so they are available through commercial retail channels. The prior info I had from Beretta LE was that they would not be available commercially for some time (longer than a few days).
The ARX's we currently have in stock are from the LE side and, per Beretta, can only be sold to LE/Mil/first responders.
Ok, I got some updated info. Apparently the commercial ARX's shipped out a couple of days after the LE side, so they are available through commercial retail channels. The prior info I had from Beretta LE was that they would not be available commercially for some time (longer than a few days).
The ARX's we currently have in stock are from the LE side and, per Beretta, can only be sold to LE/Mil/first responders.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry that my original post was poorly worded. I was trying to convey that your restriction was specific to your shop as opposed to Beretta withholding rifles from the public for a prolonged period.
On a related note, have you heard any word on the availability of caliber conversion kits? Beretta had previously said that the 300blk would be immediately available. I will buy a rifle and kit as soon as they are available (I qualify for the .mil restriction).
Correct!, Hence the reason I was giving everyone a heads up at the beginning of the week.
ESK
for those that are interested, Yes, I bought one:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=262602
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=262666
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry that my original post was poorly worded. I was trying to convey that your restriction was specific to your shop as opposed to Beretta withholding rifles from the public for a prolonged period.
On a related note, have you heard any word on the availability of caliber conversion kits? Beretta had previously said that the 300blk would be immediately available. I will buy a rifle and kit as soon as they are available (I qualify for the .mil restriction).
Ok, I got some updated info. Apparently the commercial ARX's shipped out a couple of days after the LE side, so they are available through commercial retail channels. The prior info I had from Beretta LE was that they would not be available commercially for some time (longer than a few days).
The ARX's we currently have in stock are from the LE side and, per Beretta, can only be sold to LE/Mil/first responders.
Is there any difference between the LE only ARX-100s and the commercial ARX-100s?
I was wondering the same thing. Maybe they are made of all foreign parts, the civilian model for other countries?
Is there any difference between the LE only ARX-100s and the commercial ARX-100s?
I called a dealer who was selling the restricted rifles who told me that they were essentially identical to the "civilian" packages - rifle, box, soft case, 2 mags, cleaning kit. It makes sense that the parts are identical since these are available to civilian first responders, retired military / LEO, etc. and are therefore subject to the same importation restrictions as weapons sold to any other civilian. This appears analogous to Glocks "blue label" program.
I called a dealer who was selling the restricted rifles who told me that they were essentially identical to the "civilian" packages - rifle, box, soft case, 1 mag, cleaning kit. It makes sense that the parts are identical since these are available to civilian first responders, retired military / LEO, etc. and are therefore subject to the same importation restrictions as weapons sold to any other civilian. This appears analogous to Glocks "blue label" program.
I was thinking maybe the LE only ARXs are assembled with better QC and attention to detail and the commercial ARXs maybe not so much.
I hope that's not the case.
I was thinking maybe the LE only ARXs are assembled with better QC and attention to detail and the commercial ARXs maybe not so much.
As an industrial engineer, I can tell you that it would actually cost more time, effort and money to run two different standards for what is essentially the same product. There's no way that Beretta's doing something like that.
Moose-Knuckle
05-17-14, 16:38
I was thinking maybe the LE only ARXs are assembled with better QC and attention to detail and the commercial ARXs maybe not so much.
I hope that's not the case.
That is what I thought when I first read about the LEO only sales. Kind of like the Remington 870 Police Magnums and 870 Express, etc.
Initially, I didn't think that much of the ARX but I did a little research and I've come to the conclusion it has the potential to be the "best" assault rifle out there.
It's lighter than the SCAR and certainly the ACR.
It costs less than both right from the get go and prices should come down.
Beretta appears to be actually able to support the supply of different caliber barrels, parts, etc. at a reasonable cost.
It has many desirable features, such as 1/7 twist, quick change barrel swap, ambidextrous controls/ejection, ease of maintenance, etc.
About the only thing I didn't like was the reciprocating charging handle and I'm still skeptical concerning Beretta's claim that the only parts that really require lubrication are the ejector/extractor. Also, I'm not sure of the long term reliability of the bolt carrier group and associated parts when one considers the bolt carrier group apparently does not ride on any type of metal but of on polymer and the polymer does not have metal inserts.
For all the positives above they certainly could have made the ARX more Ferrari like in the design. The stock looks like a 2x4 extension, the overall shape of the upper and lower receiver combination is chunky and the sight bases look overly square in shape. Also, I've already heard a guy on YouTube complain about the bump in the pistol grip.
MadAngler1
05-21-14, 10:29
Has anyone actually shot one yet? The ones I examined at the NRA Convention in Indy had an adjustable gas port for suppressed use. The two things I did not like about the Beretta were the handguard and iron sights. I felt the handguard needs to be a little longer or at least have a provision for adding an extension. Likewise, I was not a fan of their folding sights. I would immediately try to find a Daniel Defense, KAC or Troy replacement set.
Edited to add: Despite the Beretta's lower price, I would still take a SCAR-16 on the basis of ergonomics and accessories.
Can anyone confirm that it has normal/suppressed settings and not normal/adverse (extra gas) settings?
Per owners manual, "the gas valve has 2 positions: S for standard high power 5.56MM ammunition and N for non-standard low power 5.56MM ammunition". Still not had a chance to shoot it yet but hoping soon my schedule will allow me to get it out to shoot a little.
MadAngler1
05-22-14, 11:05
Per owners manual, "the gas valve has 2 positions: S for standard high power 5.56MM ammunition and N for non-standard low power 5.56MM ammunition". Still not had a chance to shoot it yet but hoping soon my schedule will allow me to get it out to shoot a little.
Maybe I misunderstood the Beretta rep, but I swear he told me that it was for suppressed use. If the N is for low powered ammo, that would give it more gas, not less, the opposite of what you would want for suppressed use correct? I guess I stand corrected
Eodcolret, let us know what you think when you shoot it. For less than $2k, it sounds like a good bargain, but I wouldn't buy one until there are some more accessories for it.
I got mine a couple days ago and so far I'm totally intrigued with the design. It seems to be a very simple and robust design. Other then the nylon receiver group and some of the funky ergonomics, I think it's built and designed better then the SCAR. I haven't shot it yet, but hope so soon.
According to the manual, the "N" position stands for Non-Standard ammunition. They suggest to start in the Standard position and if you encounter malfunctions, go to the "N" setting. N = More Gas.
Eric
26098
Maybe I misunderstood the Beretta rep, but I swear he told me that it was for suppressed use. If the N is for low powered ammo, that would give it more gas, not less, the opposite of what you would want for suppressed use correct? I guess I stand corrected
Eodcolret, let us know what you think when you shoot it. For less than $2k, it sounds like a good bargain, but I wouldn't buy one until there are some more accessories for it.
MountainRaven
05-22-14, 21:24
Well that sucks. The lack of a suppressed setting turned me off of the Tavor too. I never shoot unsuppressed anymore if I can help it.
It seems strange to me given that so few companies are building guns with "Adverse" settings on their gas systems (and if they are adding a second position, it is for suppressed use) any more that Beretta would choose an "Adverse" setting over a "Suppressed" setting.
MadAngler1
05-22-14, 21:45
I got mine a couple days ago and so far I'm totally intrigued with the design. It seems to be a very simple and robust design. Other then the nylon receiver group and some of the funky ergonomics, I think it's built and designed better then the SCAR. I haven't shot it yet, but hope so soon.
According to the manual, the "N" position stands for Non-Standard ammunition. They suggest to start in the Standard position and if you encounter malfunctions, go to the "N" setting. N = More Gas.
Eric
26098
Thanks for the pic Eric!
I really like the design myself, as it is really awesome how it strips down and locks together. Indeed, a very brilliant group of engineers put this rifle together. Time will tell is the receiver and nylon or polymer parts hold up though. Again, I'll take the SCAR's ergonomics and shortcomings, at least until Beretta makes one with a suppressed setting and a longer handguard.
Please post a range report when you get a chance, and thanks again for the pic!
Here's some things I wish the Beretta engineers did with the rifles development:
1) Add an alloy collar to support the barrel extension, like they did on the forward gas block area.
2) slim down the fore end, allowing a slender/long modular rail platform, i.e. Pic Rail, KeyMod™, etc.
3) Easily removable stock system, allowing for future upgrades.
4) Removable Grip Assembly, allowing the end user to make their own choice.
If I was a company that was thinking of making upgrades for the ARX, this is what I would produce:
1) Lightweight, upgraded lower receiver with flared magwell opening and Stoner/AR type ergonomics. Replace the trigger group with a drop-in AR-type trigger group (needs a narrower hammer to work with the Bolt). Make the lower to accept the AR type pistol grip.
2) Replace the top rail with a rail that has a built-in low-profile BUIS.
3) Make an extended rail system that ties into the top rail.
4) Make a stock adapter that accepts AR-type or upgradable stock assembly.
In regards to a suppressor adjustment, it wouldn't be hard to replace the selector valve with a valve that offers a smaller port to adapt to any suppressor.
Either way, I'm excited to follow the future of this rifle.
Eric
Thanks for the pic Eric!
I really like the design myself, as it is really awesome how it strips down and locks together. Indeed, a very brilliant group of engineers put this rifle together. Time will tell is the receiver and nylon or polymer parts hold up though. Again, I'll take the SCAR's ergonomics and shortcomings, at least until Beretta makes one with a suppressed setting and a longer handguard.
Please post a range report when you get a chance, and thanks again for the pic!
Interesting. I am amazed that it is actually getting out there.
Now regarding the caliber conversion, am I understanding correctly that this system already has different lowers a la Masada and can use different mags? Example, a 7.62x39 will have a different lower and use real AK mags? If so, does that already exist or is it vaporware we will never see......a la Masada?
Interesting. I am amazed that it is actually getting out there.
Now regarding the caliber conversion, am I understanding correctly that this system already has different lowers a la Masada and can use different mags? Example, a 7.62x39 will have a different lower and use real AK mags? If so, does that already exist or is it vaporware we will never see......a la Masada?
It exists, maybe not in the USA yet, but it exists: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/08/kazakhstan-special-forces-adopt-beretta-arx-160-7-62x39mm/
MadAngler1
05-24-14, 08:29
It exists, maybe not in the USA yet, but it exists: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/08/kazakhstan-special-forces-adopt-beretta-arx-160-7-62x39mm/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv5jLsLoYcE lol :D you made me think of Borat
They had one at the NRA convention. It looked pretty slick. If they introduced one in 7.62 Russian, I would buy that model before I would buy the 5.56 NATO version.
It exists, maybe not in the USA yet, but it exists: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/08/kazakhstan-special-forces-adopt-beretta-arx-160-7-62x39mm/
Is that a rock and lock, or did they come up with something else?
Doesn't look like enough room for the rock portion.
Hey, check this out. The Beretta Defense Catalog.
It shows the 7.62x39 configuration as well as something really cool, the "tricompensator".
“Tricompensator” is an assault rifle barrel with an integrated device that ensures high decrease of sound blast, noise reduction
and muzzle climb.
“Tricompensator” barrel is developed to grant the same reliability and ammos’ ballistic performance during the fire.
“Tricompensator” reduces gas pressure variation and unburned residues that are common during the fire with replaceable sound
suppressors and flash hiders.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.berettadefence.com%2Findex.aspx%3Fm%3D59%26f%3D3%26idf%3D68&ei=jHyCU7aaCNDgsAT3l4DIDA&usg=AFQjCNHpeSPHl4Ik-f2oEVbu-BNcF9k_yw&sig2=qNhhdjirZqXftK3FfZBqQQ&bvm=bv.67720277,d.cWc&cad=rja
It's on page 65.
Hey, check this out. The Beretta Defense Catalog.
It shows the 7.62x39 configuration as well as something really cool, the "tricompensator".
“Tricompensator” is an assault rifle barrel with an integrated device that ensures high decrease of sound blast, noise reduction
and muzzle climb.
“Tricompensator” barrel is developed to grant the same reliability and ammos’ ballistic performance during the fire.
“Tricompensator” reduces gas pressure variation and unburned residues that are common during the fire with replaceable sound
suppressors and flash hiders.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.berettadefence.com%2Findex.aspx%3Fm%3D59%26f%3D3%26idf%3D68&ei=jHyCU7aaCNDgsAT3l4DIDA&usg=AFQjCNHpeSPHl4Ik-f2oEVbu-BNcF9k_yw&sig2=qNhhdjirZqXftK3FfZBqQQ&bvm=bv.67720277,d.cWc&cad=rja
It's on page 65.
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
Honestly I am a lot more interested in a 7.62 variant than the 5.56. Perhaps this will be what the SIG556R should have been.
Not sure if I want to be the very first knuckle head to buy one though.
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