View Full Version : Building a precision .308 semi auto rig around a suppressor
Eurodriver
05-02-13, 08:07
I have a spare, brand new AAC 762SD that's just wasting space.
I'd like to buy a rifle for it but I'm confused as to which platform would perform best while suppressed.
Of course I like the AR series. The M1A has the usual scope-mounting issues.
I had a SCAR-H. Great weapon but the recoil on that was pretty stupid and it just didn't lend itself to being a precision rifle setup.
The MRP seems to be a fan among many here, but they are unavailable everywhere.
The Larue series seems to be 50/50 on people liking them or hating them.
Anything you guys can recommend? I was hoping to get a Colt but I can't find those anywhere either.
I will be doing 500+ yard shots in the prone. I'm not lugging it around at the alert but would still prefer it to be as light as possible.
there are 300 blk barrels all over the place. just build an upper and an SBR lower
Eurodriver
05-02-13, 08:17
there are 300 blk barrels all over the place. just build an upper and an SBR lower
I'm looking for a .308 long range rifle. Unless supersonic 300BLK has gotten ridiculously potent in the last few months, I don't think it's going to do pretty well at 700 yards.
I already have two SBR lowers and a 300BLK upper.
You can watch me shoot them here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sVf_vPhN91Y)
I'd love to recommend H&K MR762. I run a can on mine occasionally, and it is surprisingly accurate weapon. But, as much as I love the rifle it seems to be bit picky on the can/can type. There are some conflicting reviews on function with cans, and some people haven't got perfect function out of it.
Mine (MR308 with 20" barrel) has been 100% reliable for 1500 or so rounds of varying quality, naked, braked or canned. And it is cabable of half a MOA at 300 metres.
Ps. a switchable gas block would make functioning certain, but they run at $800 even in Europe.
I'd love to recommend H&K MR762. I run a can on mine occasionally, and it is surprisingly accurate weapon. But, as much as I love the rifle it seems to be bit picky on the can/can type. There are some conflicting reviews on function with cans, and some people haven't got perfect function out of it.
Mine (MR308 with 20" barrel) has been 100% reliable for 1500 or so rounds of varying quality, naked, braked or canned. And it is cabable of half a MOA at 300 metres.
Ps. a switchable gas block would make functioning certain, but they run at $800 even in Europe.
Yes, the issue with the MR308/762 is the lack of the AGR of the HK417.
Our HK417's have shot very accurately ( consistant sub-MOA and 0,5 MOA at best ) and reliably.
Apart from the MR762, I would recommend either the LaRue OBR or the LMT MWS LM7 / LM8.
For the MR762 you really would need to find the AGR or have a gunsmith install a gas adjustment screw on the gas block.
Topsportsman916
05-04-13, 15:24
I'm running a SDN-6 on my LWRC REPR. So far it has been reliable and accurate. I haven't seen much shift in POI using the suppressor.
The MRP seems to be a fan among many here, but they are unavailable everywhere.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3604
^Yep, I was just gonna say that Rainier seems to be getting a pretty steady supply of these lately. That LM8 w/ the SS barrel is my dream .308AR.
Eurodriver
05-07-13, 10:11
I found a 16" MRP w/ CL (I'm assuming) barrel for $2899 locally.
Is this accurate enough for precision work or do I need the SS Barrel?
Will it function suppressed? Will it function well?
Why is this rifle $2899 and Rainier wants $3700?
They have two. One is 1/10 twist w/ the rail system and the other is 1/11.25 twist with the slick rail system.
I found a 16" MRP w/ CL (I'm assuming) barrel for $2899 locally.
Is this accurate enough for precision work or do I need the SS Barrel?
Will it function suppressed? Will it function well?
Why is this rifle $2899 and Rainier wants $3700?
They have two. One is 1/10 twist w/ the rail system and the other is 1/11.25 twist with the slick rail system.
Slick rail vs old rail, ss vs cl, .308 vs 5.56. That's why Rainer charges $3700.
MRP refers to the LMT monolithic upper 5.56 rifle, MWS is the .308 version.
Eurodriver
05-07-13, 10:43
Slick rail vs old rail, ss vs cl, .308 vs 5.56. That's why Rainer charges $3700.
MRP refers to the LMT monolithic upper 5.56 rifle, MWS is the .308 version.
Sorry. Its a MWS. Its .308. I'm new to the LMT's.
But they have a slick rail .308 LMT for $2899. Is the SS barrel really a $1,000 mark up? I would imagine my LGS being more expensive than rainier, not less.
For quite a bit less you can get a custom build from GA Precision.
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2013-custom-rifles/ga-precision-g.a.-precision-gap-10-.html
They'll also tune the optional Noveske block for your specific can. The lead times are currently 6 months.
I'm still in the middle of planning something like this out, but in the end I think I'm just going with a complete KAC 16" 308. It will be interested to see what you can build around that can and for what $
If accuracy is your #1 concern above all else, then a GA precision GAP10 would be a very fine choice.
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2013-custom-rifles/ga-precision-g.a.-precision-gap-10-.html
If you'd consider the barrel the main determinant of accuracy, all else held (reasonably) equal, then GAP10 is going to be your best bet.
It uses a Bartlein blank. The benchrest competition world is all about maximizing accuracy of their equipment, and in that world Bartlein is quickly becoming the #1 choice.
Larue, as good as they are, use Lothar Walther button rifled barrels. They're durable (longer bbl life from what I've read), but if accuracy is your only concern, then I wouldn't get this. Button rifled barrels are rarely seen in benchrest competition due to cut rifled barrels (such as the Bartlein in the GAP10) being widely regarded as more accurate. On top of that, Lothar Walther isn't necessarily considered "Top Tier" for accuracy by most benchresters. That distinction would go to Krieger and Bartlein.
Knights would actually be a good choice IMO. Last I checked, their SR25 used a Krieger barrel, which was the old "king" of barrel makers until Bartlein came around (but honestly, not too much difference between Bartlein and Krieger in terms of accuracy). On top of that, Knights is using a 5R rifling on their barrels, which is generally preferred by most in the accuracy game since it's believed it increases velocity over other rifling types. Only thing you'd have to watch for is the 1:11 rifling; not optimal for 208gr A-Max's if that's what you're into (but great for 175gr which is what most people shoot).
LMT is using chrome lined button rifled barrels. The chrome lining isn't optimal for accuracy, and again, button rifled barrels are passed over in favor of cut rifled barrels by people looking to maximize accuracy. That is not to say LMT's aren't accurate, though. I see they do have an SS barrel option, but no clarification as to whether it's cut rifled or button rifled, or what barrel maker it's from. IMO, if it were cut rifled they'd say it, since that's a major selling point usually.
Note that most of these are just rules of thumb; i.e. Cut Rifled > Button Rifled and Stainless > Chrome lined. Some rifles could be more accurate despite being a button rifled and all that, but in general these rules of thumb tend to be correct from what I've read.
I would not feel disadvantaged running a barrel from any of the top barrel makers. I have a DPMS pattern 308 AR with a Criterion Barrel from Fulton Armory. Apparently Criterion is made from Krieger stuff except they are the "budget" button-rifled blanks. In my experience, even the cheap Krieger stuff like I have shoots pretty darn well. However, a true cut-rifled Krieger will likely cost 2x as much.
There is excellent information regarding barrels and the like in this thread. In reference to alot of this stuff about barrels and the like, you have to ask yourself "just how accurate do I need this rifle to be?" Do you require sub-1/2 MOA accuracy? My guess is "probably not." If you are shooting a mag-fed rifle with bullet/COAL limitations, it makes it much more difficult to resolve the small accuracy differences seen between a good example of each type of barrel, so this discussion is kind of moot anyways.
In today's day and age, it shouldn't be too difficult to build or find a sub-MOA capable semi-auto. I would think that an LMT MWS or GAP-10 would accomplish this with ease, with GAP-10 getting the relative accuracy nod. Adjustable gas will solve any problems related to being suppressed.
If you really are looking for accuracy and don't yet handload... might be a good time to start!
lwrkeysfisher
05-12-13, 20:08
I've been through several .308s and think there is a pretty clear choice. Note my purpose is a little different than yours (hunting not necessarily precision shooting) but I think the below input may still help.
I had some issues (parts quality control) with my GAP-10. I sold it & will not buy another. I had a couple Larue PredatARs; the first one was excellent but wasn't super accurate (1-1.25"ish @ 100), so I decided to try for something more accurate. I realized I made a mistake in selling it and ordered a second one. The second one was a hot mess, and I sold it within 4 hours of firing the first round through it. I have another on order, hoping to repeat #1 not #2. My biggest complaint with the PredatAR (or any other 16" mid-gas .308 I've fired) is recoil is brutal.
I have also had a KAC SR-25 EMC that was PERFECT but a bit heavy for hunting. I sold it to payoff my truck--didn't make sense to have a $5K rifle & car payment. If money was not an issue, and I wanted a precision semi-auto .308 I would buy a Knights EMC/ECC. They have an incredibly soft recoil and are stupid accurate (despite the chrome barrel). Mine shot .75-.9" @ 100, and sent my brass into a neat little pile 5' away at 4:30. If weight wasn't a big concern but money was I would buy a SR-25 EC.
In the end, if the next PredatAR sucks I'll sell it and buy a SR-25 ECC & deal with the weight (or just continue to use my 6.8 for hunting). If the PredatAR rocks, i'll keep it & buy an SR-25 EC to run as a precision rifle.
A corollary question to ask: must the rifle be all straight out of the box or do you think you'd be open to swapping out the barrel with something from Hart, Satern, or similar?
lwrkeysfisher
05-13-13, 18:51
Yellowfin not sure if that was aimed at me or the op... I ventured down that road first, and after speaking with a few folks in the industry I trust, I decided that the .308 AR platform did not have enough of a standard to readily build one I would trust. I also considered sending my 1st PredatAR off the GAP to be re-barreled (since they work on the AR .308 platform & my issues were with the POF parts), but by the time they installed a new barrel it would cost and weigh about the same as an EMC and not have a warranty or any substantive testing backing the design.
While I will readily buy/build a quality AR-15 franken gun/upper I am not there yet with the .308 platform.
Yellowfin not sure if that was aimed at me or the op... I ventured down that road first, and after speaking with a few folks in the industry I trust, I decided that the .308 AR platform did not have enough of a standard to readily build one I would trust. I also considered sending my 1st PredatAR off the GAP to be re-barreled (since they work on the AR .308 platform & my issues were with the POF parts), but by the time they installed a new barrel it would cost and weigh about the same as an EMC and not have a warranty or any substantive testing backing the design.
While I will readily buy/build a quality AR-15 franken gun/upper I am not there yet with the .308 platform.
If you're looking for a standard in the AR308 platform, it would be the LMT MWS or one of the KAC SR-25 variants. Both have military contracts, both use essentially the same lower. LMT has a monolithic upper and quick change barrel, the KAC has a different bolt. Both take pmags and most AR lower parts.
Kill By Number
05-14-13, 18:58
My vote is the LMT. LMT .308 has 2 rail options that are the same length, standard (MWS) and slim (LM8 MWS). They offer a chrome lined button rifled barrel 1:10 and a cut rifled 5R blackened Stainless barrel 1:11.25 . From my experience LMT builds for reliability first then accuracy with weight considerations last. These are my same order of priorities so I bought the LM8 MWS (little lighter) with chrome lined barrel. Trident has done accuracy reviews with the chrome lined MWS shooting 10 shots under an inch with Federal Gold Match which influenced my saving the $700 upgrade to Cut rifled SS barrel ( you can always buy it later since its quick change). I just got mine so no personal reviews yet but my 5.56 MRP has been awesome for close to 10000 rounds and I will continue to give LMT my money. We are an FFL and between employees have four 5.56 LMT MRPs and 2 LMT .308s . They have never failed to impress, and offer great customer service although their wait times SUCK right now.
My vote is the LMT. LMT .308 has 2 rail options that are the same length, standard (MWS) and slim (LM8 MWS). They offer a chrome lined button rifled barrel 1:10 and a cut rifled 5R blackened Stainless barrel 1:11.25 . From my experience LMT builds for reliability first then accuracy with weight considerations last. These are my same order of priorities so I bought the LM8 MWS (little lighter) with chrome lined barrel. Trident has done accuracy reviews with the chrome lined MWS shooting 10 shots under an inch with Federal Gold Match which influenced my saving the $700 upgrade to Cut rifled SS barrel ( you can always buy it later since its quick change). I just got mine so no personal reviews yet but my 5.56 MRP has been awesome for close to 10000 rounds and I will continue to give LMT my money. We are an FFL and between employees have four 5.56 LMT MRPs and 2 LMT .308s . They have never failed to impress, and offer great customer service although their wait times SUCK right now.
i wish there were more accuracy reports on the ss mws
Kill By Number
05-15-13, 13:25
My customer's stainless match MWS shot 5 rounds into one hole just under .75" at 100. BUT he has also shot some 10 shot groups upto 1 5/8" on other days. He shoots Federal Gold Match and most 10 SHOT groups will have 7 in one hole and 3 not touching that opens it up around 1 to 1 1/2". I think it has a lot of potential and would love to work up some reloads for it, but it still has less than 100 rounds through it.
Here's what I put together. S&W M&P 10. Haven't got a chance to shoot it long range yet.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh131/Vettely/831dc451-44b0-4f85-979a-6877e2d69a67_zps4e13b34e.jpg
Here's what I put together. S&W M&P 10. Haven't got a chance to shoot it long range yet.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh131/Vettely/831dc451-44b0-4f85-979a-6877e2d69a67_zps4e13b34e.jpg
I'd love to hear how this shoots. Any chance for an update?
Seriously looking into a M&P 10
Thanks
Well it's turned out to be very reliable. Have only plinked with it so far. Need to get it zeroed soon. Only change has been an Atlas bipod. M&P-10 is a great rifle. FYI, the silencer (AAC 762-SDN-6) works AWESOME with my 300 Blackout.
Well it's turned out to be very reliable. Have only plinked with it so far. Need to get it zeroed soon. Only change has been an Atlas bipod. M&P-10 is a great rifle. FYI, the silencer (AAC 762-SDN-6) works AWESOME with my 300 Blackout.
How does the SDN work with the 308 cartridge? I'm waiting for mine to be released and was kind of curious.
Topsportsman916
11-09-13, 08:40
How does the SDN work with the 308 cartridge? I'm waiting for mine to be released and was kind of curious.
It works great on my REPR. I like it so much that I pretty much shoot it suppressed all of the time.
I'm looking for a .308 long range rifle. Unless supersonic 300BLK has gotten ridiculously potent in the last few months, I don't think it's going to do pretty well at 700 yards.
Maybe with an M203 or mortar sight? Lol! ;)
In a seriousness, if it were me I'd build an AR for the can.
I would use this bbl: https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=4036
And this chassis: https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3479
If you're ever on this side of the sate you're welcome to shoot my PredatAR 762 - but the wait times for LaRue are horrendous these days.
snackgunner
11-10-13, 11:26
Maybe with an M203 or mortar sight? Lol! ;)
In a seriousness, if it were me I'd build an AR for the can.
I would use this bbl: https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=4036
And this chassis: https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3479
If you're ever on this side of the sate you're welcome to shoot my PredatAR 762 - but the wait times for LaRue are horrendous these days.
Why would u choose that setup?
Why would u choose that setup?
Everything I've seen from Mega has been top notch. Their customer service is phenomenal. I built an SBR using their monolithic upper and while very light and strong, it was discontinued because of LMT threatening legal action. Mega came up with this new 2 piece design looks very promising. It has the keymod holes on the 45 degrees as well as 3, 6, and 9.
The Noveske N6 bbl needs no introduction. I'm just thrilled to see them available again.
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