View Full Version : San Antonio Police Converts to M and P Pistols
May 2, 2013 |
San Antonio Police Department Converts to Smith & Wesson® M&P® Pistols
SPRINGFIELD, Mass. --- Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ: SWHC), a leader in firearm manufacturing and design, today announced that it has been awarded a firearms contract from the San Antonio Police Department for duty side arms from the company's M&P Pistol Series. The San Antonio Police Department has selected the M&P40 as its new service firearm and has begun to convert officers to the new handgun platform.
As one of the state's largest police forces with over 2,100 sworn officers, San Antonio joins the ranks of agencies that have converted to the Smith & Wesson M&P pistol. The full-department conversion calls for 2,600 M&P40 pistols chambered in .40 S&W to be delivered to the department. The recent order represents Smith & Wesson's largest contract to date to an agency in the state of Texas.
The M&P40 pistol was selected by the San Antonio Police Department after an extensive testing and evaluation period, which included comparisons with numerous firearms from various competitors. After thoroughly examining each submission, the department chose the Smith & Wesson M&P pistol based on its high level of quality and dependability. Throughout the assessment process, the M&P pistol was commended for its professional-grade features and performance during live-fire exercises.
James Debney, President and CEO of Smith & Wesson, said, "We are honored that our M&P pistols have been selected by the San Antonio Police Department. Our nation's first responders are extremely important to us, and they have always been so. These men and women work tirelessly and dedicate their lives to helping keep our communities safe and we are proud to support them with firearms designed to meet their high standards for performance and reliability."
In addition to supplying the department with new duty sidearms, Smith & Wesson will support the agency with a variety of additional services including armorers' classes and transitional training for officers. The M&P40 pistols supplied to the San Antonio Police Department include standard features such as customizable grip inserts, ambidextrous operating features and the ability to disassemble the firearm without pulling the trigger.
"Smith & Wesson is proud to support the San Antonio Police Department and its long-standing history of dedicated service to the citizens of Texas," said Mike Brown, Vice President of U.S. Sales for Smith & Wesson. "From its historic roots, which can be traced back to its foundation in the Texas Rangers, to the department's highly decorated SWAT team, the San Antonio Police Department has amassed a commendable legacy of active service. Smith & Wesson is committed to providing the most reliable and dependable firearms to law enforcement professionals. As an American owned and operated supplier of law enforcement duty pistols, we look forward to a long and prosperous relationship with the San Antonio Police Department.
For more information on the robust line of M&P Pistols, please visit www.smith-wesson.com (http://www.smith-wesson.com).
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WickedWillis
05-02-13, 15:46
I am honestly surprised more departments have not went to the M&P line thus far.
What did they switch from?
S. Galbraith
05-02-13, 16:49
Looks like they are following the example of their sister city, Austin. Austin went to the M&P .40 about 5 years ago and have been using full power 165gr Gold Dots(1150fps). It has been working out very well for them.
Well, they did better than my local SD who have after a number of secret squirrel meetings decided to the department's new duty weapon would be stainless sig 220s.
What did they switch from?
Glock 22.
Well, they did better than my local SD who have after a number of secret squirrel meetings decided to the department's new duty weapon would be stainless sig 220s.
There are to many really good double stack duty guns for a PD to run a single stack pistol.
Fire_Medic
05-02-13, 18:39
I bought one with the Thumb safety over the weekend, was hooked after renting it. Will compliment my 45 M&P's nicely
There are to many really good double stack duty guns for a PD to run a single stack pistols.
Oh your not kidding. But this is the same department whose road sergeant wont let the road deputies (or any deputy for that matter) carry a BUG because of the possibility of flagging someone who isn't a bad guy with it when drawing. Pesky unconventional positions and all when your in the fight for your life... :rolleyes:
NeoNeanderthal
05-02-13, 19:46
I am a glock guy, but the Mp40 fullsize is a great gun. If you've got to have a .40 Cal. I think its the way to go. Though the gen 4 glocks are supposedly great guns in 40. For me itd be a glock in 9mm or an M&P in .40.
BoringGuy45
05-02-13, 19:56
There are to many really good double stack duty guns for a PD to run a single stack pistol.
The Connecticut State Police just recently switched from Sig P229s to 220s. The stated reason, according to one trooper I spoke with, was compatibility with the SWAT team, which carries 1911s, as well as the increased "stopping power" (his words, not mine). The thing is, they supposedly tested the 220s along side M&P45s, Glock 21s, and a few others, AND of course the P227 was released this year, so for the life of me, I can't figure out why they chose the 220. The M&Ps or Glocks, I would imagine, would be quite a bit less per unit, they carry more rounds, and they haven't been plagued with the same problems Sig has over the past few years. If they really wanted to stick with Sig, I can't figure out why they didn't just wait a few months for the 227 and take the pistol that carried two more rounds.
brushy bill
05-02-13, 20:42
. But this is the same department whose road sergeant wont let the road deputies (or any deputy for that matter) carry a BUG because of the possibility of flagging someone who isn't a bad guy with it when drawing.
What are you talking about? This is not a SO. It is a PD. Where do deputies come in to play in a PD?? BTW, they have had BUGs for awhile.
What are you talking about? This is not a SO. It is a PD. Where do deputies come in to play in a PD?? BTW, they have had BUGs for awhile.
??? Did you see my earlier post? I was referencing the actions of my local Sheriffs office who is in the process of changing duty weapons, not the OPs police department.
S. Galbraith
05-02-13, 20:53
The Connecticut State Police just recently switched from Sig P229s to 220s. The stated reason, according to one trooper I spoke with, was compatibility with the SWAT team, which carries 1911s, as well as the increased "stopping power" (his words, not mine). The thing is, they supposedly tested the 220s along side M&P45s, Glock 21s, and a few others, AND of course the P227 was released this year, so for the life of me, I can't figure out why they chose the 220. The M&Ps or Glocks, I would imagine, would be quite a bit less per unit, they carry more rounds, and they haven't been plagued with the same problems Sig has over the past few years. If they really wanted to stick with Sig, I can't figure out why they didn't just wait a few months for the 227 and take the pistol that carried two more rounds.
I haven't handled a P227 yet, but I am worried that they may have pushed the P226 sized grip a little too thin. I have many years of experience using and working on the P229 .40, and the thin alloy part of the grip needs to be of excellent quality aluminum alloy in order to resist stripping out grip screws. We've had a lot of newer P229s(2005-2010) strip out frame threads during armorer detail strips. We rarely stripped out threads on pre 2005 P229s. For this reason, along with what appears to be accelerated frame rail wear, I suspect that Sig has been using a cheaper quality aluminum alloy in their modern frames. Sig has often said that the weak point of the design has been grip screws......okay, sure it is if you don't use quality frame alloy. Now days they slap a flimsy E2 on their guns, and call that problem solved. Many of us still prefer the screw-on grip panels.
Other than the grip, the rest of the P227 appears to have some potential. It makes up for some of the P220s design shortcomings......such as the external extractor, the modern ejector, the controlled fall decocker, the single unit slide release lever, and the modern hammer stop.
Looks like they are following the example of their sister city, Austin. Austin went to the M&P .40 about 5 years ago and have been using full power 165gr Gold Dots(1150fps). It has been working out very well for them.
I know plenty of officers in that dept I work with that don't like them. A lot of QC issues initially...and the disliked trigger.
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/image_archive/2099182.jpg
S. Galbraith
05-02-13, 21:10
I know plenty of officers in that dept I work with that don't like them. A lot of QC issues initially...and the disliked trigger.
Yep, my bother is on APD. You can never please all of your officers. Some want Glocks......H&Ks.....Sigs...... In fact, prior to the M&P adoption, APD allowed several different makes and calibers that kept more officers happy. However, with a single pistol make and caliber, their overall department shooting scores have improved quite a bit. Shared knowledge and experience with equipment helps everyone.
I shot my friends M&P 40. It was alright, however, I prefer my Gen 3 G22. Our local police (about 480) have M&P 45's.
NYH1.
S&W is still offering the sweet deals to agencies...
Yep, my bother is on APD. You can never please all of your officers. Some want Glocks......H&Ks.....Sigs...... In fact, prior to the M&P adoption, APD allowed several different makes and calibers that kept more officers happy. However, with a single pistol make and caliber, their overall department shooting scores have improved quite a bit. Shared knowledge and experience with equipment helps everyone.
Yep, I know officers and detectives that used Glock 22s before the Chief standardized the M&P. Many people are ok with the current M&P, but the biggest gripe is the trigger. As for back-up guns, they're still allowed to pick from an approved list, and some of them still go with Glocks.
In my buddy's academy class of ~60 ppl or so, they had 7 M&Ps that had to go back to S&W for front sights falling off, broken trigger springs, and a broken firing pin. That said, this was a couple years ago when APD just adopted the M&P as the main gun, and at least S&W made it right.
But for the guys that has had their weapon go down like that, the confidence in it is shaky. While the latest guns haven't had as much issues, I agree that the triggers could be better (ie: Apex).
I for one like the ergonomics on the M&P a lot more so than my own personal Glocks.
twistedcomrade
05-03-13, 04:26
I guess San Antonio's old Glock 22 will be offered for sale by CDNN?
S&W is still offering the sweet deals to agencies...
All the major gun manufacturers offer "sweet deals" to PD's and SO's.
C4
The current guns have a much more pronounced trigger reset. If you've shot or handled the new Shield you should find the current full-size pistols have a similar trigger.
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S. Galbraith
05-03-13, 10:38
Yep, I know officers and detectives that used Glock 22s before the Chief standardized the M&P. Many people are ok with the current M&P, but the biggest gripe is the trigger. As for back-up guns, they're still allowed to pick from an approved list, and some of them still go with Glocks.
In my buddy's academy class of ~60 ppl or so, they had 7 M&Ps that had to go back to S&W for front sights falling off, broken trigger springs, and a broken firing pin. That said, this was a couple years ago when APD just adopted the M&P as the main gun, and at least S&W made it right.
But for the guys that has had their weapon go down like that, the confidence in it is shaky. While the latest guns haven't had as much issues, I agree that the triggers could be better (ie: Apex).
I for one like the ergonomics on the M&P a lot more so than my own personal Glocks.
The .40S&W has the habit of really pushing the design limitations of any manufacturer's handgun. Most take some end user beta testing to really push the guns to their breaking point. Some manufacturers get the issues resolved......some don't. In my opinion, Glock has never really gotten the .40S&W implimentation right. They essentially took a 9mm pistol that uses a tapered casing, and retrofitted it to shoot a straight walled larger caliber casing. Instead of altering the slide and frame to position the magazine higher, and/or altering the barrel tilt to make for reliable feeding of the straight walled case......they cut out a bunch of the 6 o'clock chamber support leading to the "kaboom" issues in the 1990s. Other manufacturers like S&W, Sig, and H&K designed true .40S&W platforms which not only maintained good chamber support, but good reliability and durability. Some of our academy Sig P229 .40s have seen close to 100k rounds through them and they just keep on going.
That being said, the M&P is evolving little by little. As it should.... I think the current pistol is a real winner in .40S&W.
I guess San Antonio's old Glock 22 will be offered for sale by CDNN?
Saw one at the Union Gap, WA Cabelas two weeks ago.
morbidbattlecry
05-03-13, 14:55
If the gun works better for them then i'm glad they switched. To bad for me i was about one of the 1-2 people the world that the M&p did not fit me well at all.
brushy bill
05-03-13, 20:07
??? Did you see my earlier post? I was referencing the actions of my local Sheriffs office who is in the process of changing duty weapons, not the OPs police department.
Apologies. I missed that post and I couldn't figure out what you were saying. My bad.
What did they switch from?
They are switching from Glock. Now we need a S&W dealer in San Antonio. The only one in Texas is in Killeen down the street from Fort Hood.
The current guns have a much more pronounced trigger reset. If you've shot or handled the new Shield you should find the current full-size pistols have a similar trigger.
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True. My recent manufacture M&P 9mm FS has a really smooth trigger pull and a short, tactile reset.
Getting all that Eagle Ford shale revenue. Good for them.
Redbeardsong
05-04-13, 19:45
True. My recent manufacture M&P 9mm FS has a really smooth trigger pull and a short, tactile reset.
Mine is a little gritty, but has a very good reset.
morbidbattlecry
05-04-13, 20:01
Mine is a little gritty, but has a very good reset.
The one i had a few months ago had a nice reset and crisp break but had like an 8lbs pull on it.
StrikerFired
05-04-13, 21:04
I agree, the newer triggers feel much better! That being said I don't for the life of me understand why LE Agencies still have single stack guns.
S. Galbraith
05-04-13, 22:51
That being said I don't for the life of me understand why LE Agencies still have single stack guns.
For me, and a number of other shooters, the grip dimensions and inherent accuracy of the P220(and the .45acp cartridge) make it a tempting pistol to use on duty. I also used a DHS P229 .40 for duty use right now.
The old time principles touted by Colonel Cooper years ago during the Bullseye era, to modern day action shooting has demonstrated one common truth..........shot placement is everything. 5 rapid rounds in the COM of a perp that is ready to kill a cop and escape, may only slow him down a fraction of a second if nothing important is hit. This is a common result of OIS with modern day semiauto duty pistols, and action type shooting training which focuses on rapid COM shooting. Three recent OISs come to mind when talking shot placement. Officer Marcus Young, Officer Keith Borders, and Officer Peter Soulis.
Officer Soulis shot his perp 11 times in the torso with .40S&W Ranger Talons. However, most of those hits were not to critical parts of the anatomy, and it took several minutes for his attacker to die. He fired a total of 30 rounds, reloading his G22 once. Soulis said that most of his shooting was rapid, point of aim COM, just as he was trained to do.
Officer Borders shot his perp 6 times in the torso with .45acp 200gr+P Gold Dots. His gun battle lasted much longer, including shooting under a vehicle to literally sever the perps foot with two hits to his ankle. However, Borders was still fighting for his life after 31rds fired from his G21, and when he realized that he was firing from his last magazine.........he took careful aim, controlled his breathing and shaking, and fired his 32nd shot which went through the perp's eye socket.
Lastly, Officer Young, with his weak hand(because his right was wounded), fired 4 carefully aimed shots at his perp with his Beretta 96 .40S&W. One bounced off the perps skull after it punched through a sidewindow and hit his skull at an odd angle......and another went into his pelvis region, through his torso, and lodged in the cervical region of his spine killing him quickly.
The lessons that I learn from every OIS that I read about is that the only force multiplier in a handgun fight is good marksmenship, not your magazine capacity or caliber selection(although, larger calibers are useful for barriers and pavement bouncing). I can list a dozen other shootings that have similar results, but the officers involved make a conscious decision at some point in their fights to shoot more accurately, which usually wins the fight. Quality 1911s, and to some extent a quality Sig P220, do present a good duty pistol option due to their exceptional accuracy capabilities in the hands of "some" officers. They aren't for everybody, but there are things that I can do with a P220 that I can't do as well with double stacked Sig alternatives. The P220's slender, longer grip(from front to back) allows large hand sizes to better control the horizontal shooting plane(as does the 1911) than a fatter and shorter(from front to back) double stacked pistol grip. Combine that with the more accurate full length P220 rail and the .45acp inherent accuracy, and it can be a very appealing platform if you can keep it maintained.
theblackknight
05-05-13, 01:26
I love story time.
S. Galbraith
05-05-13, 10:37
I love story time.
They have happy endings, but all three officers took early retirement within a year of the shootings. Officer Tim Gramins had a similar failure to stop with his Glock 21, and he only ended the fight with a head shot. If I were to go back to carrying a P220, I would at least carry 3-4 extra magazines. One interesting aspect of the revolver and Bullseye era, was that the average officer understood the importance of precision shooting more......as was reflected in their trainings. This emphasis on precision, gave rise to the one shot stop crap to evaluate ammo/calibers.
Then there are stud officers like Jared Reston, who takes a licking, ultimately prevails, and comes back for more win.
MurtaughF3
05-06-13, 17:39
got the m&p 9 and now looking for one in .40, awesome sidearm
They essentially took a 9mm pistol that uses a tapered casing
9mm uses a tapered casing?
Big Bronze Rim
05-07-13, 16:42
9mm uses a tapered casing?
9mm luger has always had a tapered case.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-FcUFTjT8edM/UXQ69hNGHnI/AAAAAAAAMTs/KQAUQbLdigc/s1600/Capture%2525209mm%25255B6%25255D.jpg
A close friend here in SA is SAPD and I have tried his new M&P and can say that the trigger reset is definitely more pronounced than my 3 earlier production M&Ps (pre 2010).
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