View Full Version : Glock 19 - Factory Repair or Apex FRE
My cousin bought a used Gen 3 Glock 19 a while back and I finally shot it with him this weekend. One of his first comments was "it shoots well but I hate getting hit in the head with the brass." I told him that it is a well-known issue with some Glocks and that he can probably have it fixed under the warranty.
Here's the question, mailing it back to Glock overnight via Fedex or UPS will probably cost around $60, which is almost as much as the Apex FRE that is known to fix the problem. Would you recommend sending the gun back to Glock to potentially fix the problem, or buy the FRE and be done with it?
brushy bill
05-05-13, 14:37
My cousin bought a used Gen 3 Glock 19 a while back and I finally shot it with him this weekend. One of his first comments was "it shoots well but I hate getting hit in the head with the brass." I told him that it is a well-known issue with some Glocks and that he can probably have it fixed under the warranty.
Here's the question, mailing it back to Glock overnight via Fedex or UPS will probably cost around $60, which is almost as much as the Apex FRE that is known to fix the problem. Would you recommend sending the gun back to Glock to potentially fix the problem, or buy the FRE and be done with it?
I would recommend he try a 30274 ejector first. That seems to be a fix for a lot of folks. He'll need to take the ejector out of a Gen 4 ejector housing and replace his 336 with same. Easy to do and I've changed mine out except for a 26, which I understand may not benefit from this. Might be a simple fix and save a few dollars. I would definitely go with the Apex over paying $60 to ship it to Glock for another MIM extractor though.
morbidbattlecry
05-05-13, 14:59
I've read stories of guns going back to Glock 3-4 times with no fix in site. Swap out the Ejector as said above. If that doesn't work Buy the Apex extractor. That should work. If it doesn't they extractor may have to be fitted. Apex was nice enough to do mine for me. And didn't cost me a dime. That finally fixed the problem.
hotrodder636
05-05-13, 15:16
My cousin bought a used Gen 3 Glock 19 a while back and I finally shot it with him this weekend. One of his first comments was "it shoots well but I hate getting hit in the head with the brass." I told him that it is a well-known issue with some Glocks and that he can probably have it fixed under the warranty.
Here's the question, mailing it back to Glock overnight via Fedex or UPS will probably cost around $60, which is almost as much as the Apex FRE that is known to fix the problem. Would you recommend sending the gun back to Glock to potentially fix the problem, or buy the FRE and be done with it?
I swapped the OEM extractor for the Apex version and guess what....still got the BTF. I have no received the upgraded recoil spring from Glock as well as the 30274 ejector. I have yet to shoot this combo but hope it fixed the issue as I really enjoy the G19.
I've read stories of guns going back to Glock 3-4 times with no fix in site. Swap out the Ejector as said above. If that doesn't work Buy the Apex extractor. That should work. If it doesn't they extractor may have to be fitted. Apex was nice enough to do mine for me. And didn't cost me a dime. That finally fixed the problem.
Unfortunately, I've also read stories of people putting in an Apec FRE + upgraded extractor spring + plunger without affecting their BTF issue. In my case, it fixed the problem on my Gen 3 G19 completely. Frankly, I think I'd have more confidence in Apex working to resolve the issue than Glock, and that's the route I opted to go.
The APEX FRE is not the end all fix. If it was my Gen 3 wouldn't be back at Glock right now.
The 30274 ejector is cheap enough, so I may go that route before advising him to send it back to Glock. Thanks guys.
The 30274 isn't an automatic fix. Often it takes a combination of different extractors, ejectors, and EDP bearings to find a better working solution. Ammo power is another key factor to the equation also. Mag spring tension is also a contributing factor.
There is no "silver bullet" fix.
The 30274 isn't an automatic fix. Often it takes a combination of different extractors, ejectors, and EDP bearings to find a better working solution. Ammo power is another key factor to the equation also. Mag spring tension is also a contributing factor.
I agree that sometimes a combination of parts will fix it...in my case the Apex FRE with their extra-power spring, stock bearing, and the 30274 ejector did the trick. I didn't have to do any fitting as others had to do, nor did I have to resort to the non-LCI bearing.
As to ammo and mags, I'm of the opinion that since some (or most) of the G19's will run virtually all range ammo reliably then they all should. Likewise, standard magazines. If not, then the pistol is defective. Ammo and magazines aren't something I'm willing to compromise on.
The 30274 isn't an automatic fix. Often it takes a combination of different extractors, ejectors, and EDP bearings to find a better working solution. Ammo power is another key factor to the equation also. Mag spring tension is also a contributing factor.
There is no "silver bullet" fix.
Understood. He doesn't shoot much so, crazy as it may sound, he might not want to pay to send the gun back to Glock.
G34Shooter
05-05-13, 20:31
I swapped the OEM extractor for the Apex version and guess what....still got the BTF. I have no received the upgraded recoil spring from Glock as well as the 30274 ejector. I have yet to shoot this combo but hope it fixed the issue as I really enjoy the G19.
It's recommended to use the 30274 elector, and the lighter weight RSA will probably help too.
controlledpairs2
05-05-13, 20:52
The apex worked great for me. I vote Apex
I would send it back to Glock and give them first crack at it. If you throw money at the pistol with aftermarket parts, you might not solve the issue and have to send it back to Glock anyway.
If you decide to repair the pistol yourself, I would not dick around with one part at a time. I would replace the extractor, spring loaded bearing and ejector with the latest Glock parts.
I have been fortunate with my Glock 19, 17 and 34. They were all purchased in the past 3 years and run like a swiss watch.
My BTF G19 Gen3 was completely cured by going to a 30274 ejector and the Apex extractor.
My cousin bought a used Gen 3 Glock 19 a while back and I finally shot it with him this weekend. One of his first comments was "it shoots well but I hate getting hit in the head with the brass"...
Out of curiosity, did it toss brass to your face as well?
The reason I ask is that none of my Gen 3 or 4 Glocks has ever thrown brass to *my* face, but one of my Gen 3 17s will bean my son in the forehead. He's a capable shooter, and he's not doing anything wrong, but clearly we're doing something differently.
brushy bill
05-05-13, 22:00
I would send it back to Glock and give them first crack at it. If you throw money at the pistol with aftermarket parts, you might not solve the issue and have to send it back to Glock anyway.
If you decide to repair the pistol yourself, I would not dick around with one part at a time. I would replace the extractor, spring loaded bearing and ejector with the latest Glock parts.
I have been fortunate with my Glock 19, 17 and 34. They were all purchased in the past 3 years and run like a swiss watch.
Alternatively, you could pay to send it back to Glock and still not have it right as many here have posted. If it were my $60 I'd trust Apex over Glock who should have had it right from the start. YMMV.
Magic_Salad0892
05-06-13, 02:19
Newer ejector, then APEX extractor.
I'd also have the ejection port wall lowered, then re-finish the gun in melonite anyway.
I'd also have the ejection port wall lowered, then re-finish the gun in melonite anyway.
I know Randy has been doing that in some cases, and by all reports it's the ultimate and final fix for BTF or other ejection issues. What does that cost?
madisonsfinest
05-10-13, 18:30
I still get some btf with all of the current Glock Parts. I might be looking to Apex. Too bad Glock hasn't fixed this yet :(
Updated ejector fixed my BTF issue. Its $8.00 from Midway. Worth a try in my opinion.
I got a good deal on a lightly used Gen3, and suspected it was going to hit me in the face, took it to the range and it does.
I have already ordered/received/installed the Apex FRE kit, and have the new 30274 ejector on the way. The ejector was so cheap, after searching around and finally finding it in stock @ Midway, I grabbed one the day after ordering the FRE (Apex advises replacing the ejector on their order site for the FRE as well) and it should be in the mail at work in a Tuesday.
I figure the APEX FRE kit is a good bet regardless if it is the cause or not. I am going to try to hit the range before and after installing the updated ejector, to see if my issue was the extractor, or the ejector, will report back (my 19 had a 12/2012 test fire case as well).
I recently picked up lightly used Gen 3 G19 and no BTF so far. Its a 2010 manufacture. Only 122 rds fired by me. I have no idea how many rds were fired by the previous owner. Hopefully its GTG.
I bought a gen 3 g19 and it hit me in the head with brass and malf'd.
I bought all 3 parts Apex recommends - their extractor, the spring load bearing, and the ejector, and the gun works perfectly.
Don't try half a fix.
Von
brushy bill
05-13-13, 20:27
I bought a gen 3 g19 and it hit me in the head with brass and malf'd.
I bought all 3 parts Apex recommends - their extractor, the spring load bearing, and the ejector, and the gun works perfectly.
Don't try half a fix.
Von
Nice first post. Welcome.
hotrodder636
05-13-13, 20:37
It's recommended to use the 30274 elector, and the lighter weight RSA will probably help too.
What my post was supposed to say is that I have installed the 30274 and the new RSA in conjunction with the Apex FRE but haven't shot it yet....sorry
I briefly had a 3rd gen FDE 19 that tossed brass everywhere and just didn't seem to cycle quite right. The Apex extractor didn't fix it at all so I sold the gun and kept the extractor in case one of my two known good running 19s ever needs an extractor.
On another note, I'm done with Glock over all this nonsense.
We're going on FIVE YEARS with this shit and Glock is no closer to fixing it than they ever were.
Screw 'em.
brushy bill
05-13-13, 21:44
We're going on FIVE YEARS with this shit and Glock is no closer to fixing it than they ever were.
Screw 'em.
Copy that, but what else you going to? M&P with extraction issues (first APEX FRE) and accuracy issues (available Stormlake fitted barrel from G&R or vaporware/unobtanium Bar-Sto from Apex)? Little more expensive than a $60 extractor, ejector, and non-LCI bearing (if it works) or go with a 'twice the price' H&K or a PPQ with the "I didn't want that version" mag release and zero parts/magazine availablity?
I finally went with buying adequate magazines and parts for the guns that I had that worked and giving up on new purchases...eventually they will make guns so shitty they won't even be tempting at all so it won't be an issue...getting more and more like that the longer I live. As an example, some of the S&W revolver parts I recently had to go with are now MIM, but when I was younger and candy was free and ponies could talk was real steel...no longer an option...of course, it is just as good :)
DreadPirateMoyer
05-13-13, 22:33
My vote would be Apex FRE + 30274 ejector.
I have 2x Gen 3 G17s that both beaned me in the face since day 1, regardless of ammo. The first G17 went back to the factory twice with no fix to be found. I didn't even bother sending in the second one, as I knew Glock wouldn't be able to do crap for me.
I put a 30274 ejector in both, and the BTF was fixed for a bit, but it resurfaced after a few hundred/thousand more rounds. The new extractors Glock has been putting in their guns are nothing short of absolute crap and wear down too fast (or something).
After that, I put an Apex FRE in both, and the problem has been gone since. I have full faith in the Apex parts to cure 95% of Gen 3 BTF issues.
The other 5%? Well, Glock's quality isn't like it used to be. :sad:
ETA: the 9mm market is really a load of turds right now. Glocks have extraction problems that the company refuses to recognize/fix. M&Ps have the untraceable accuracy problem. PPQs have very little parts support or aftermarket alternatives, not to mention I find their grip absolutely horrid for my big hands. HK is twice the price of everything else, and I don't like hammer-fired guns. That just leaves the FN FNS series of handguns, which I actually like a lot, but I think they suffer from the same parts/availability problems as the PPQ. It feels so hopeless.
Copy that, but what else you going to? M&P with extraction issues (first APEX FRE) and accuracy issues (available Stormlake fitted barrel from G&R or vaporware/unobtanium Bar-Sto from Apex)? Little more expensive than a $60 extractor, ejector, and non-LCI bearing (if it works) or go with a 'twice the price' H&K or a PPQ with the "I didn't want that version" mag release and zero parts/magazine availablity?
I finally went with buying adequate magazines and parts for the guns that I had that worked and giving up on new purchases...eventually they will make guns so shitty they won't even be tempting at all so it won't be an issue...getting more and more like that the longer I live. As an example, some of the S&W revolver parts I recently had to go with are now MIM, but when I was younger and candy was free and ponies could talk was real steel...no longer an option...of course, it is just as good :)
I pretty much went through what you described in your first paragraph.. Had both a inaccurate M&P, and a G19 that threw brass into my face,(once it threw a piece of brass up into the air and it landed between my glasses and forehead, ended up in the corner of my left eye)I'll say this, you do pay more for a HK, But what you're paying for is, them knowing what the hell they're doing...You never hear of a inaccurate HK, or one that throws brass in your face.. They've managed to maintain a quality standard.. I'm willing to pay for a pistol that works out of the box.. Now, before anyone gets fired up, I'm not bashing Glock or S&W, I had examples of both, liked both, and both were dissapointments...I've pretty much crossed off M&P anything for future purchases,(on a growing list) Glock? only if it's a older one, 9mm, (pre '09) and then only if I could shoot it first...
File down the casting marks on the extractor. Its free, and might help.
kantstudien
05-14-13, 01:56
Try to fix it yourself, keep in mind Glock doesn't have any "gunsmiths" who will go over your G19 with a fine-tooth comb.
They will play the parts replacement game (just like you) until they hopefully get the kinks worked out.
If you can't get it worked out, then send it to Glock with the original parts installed and hopefully it will run when it gets back.
The extractor did not matter in my Gen 3 17. It was sent back to Glock and they said it was fine. The ejector was angled just slightly off that it was almost hitting the primer (!). Robb J. replaced my ejector with a Gen 4 and no more brass to the face.
That said, this one shows more erratic ejection patterns than a pistol should.
For anyone with this problem I would try the Gen 4 ejector first.
Copy that, but what else you going to?
Hell, I have a couple of Beretta M9s that run fine. Always have and I can run a DA/SA just as well as a striker, so I'm not handicapped by having to use a plastic gun or a 1911.
I would recommend trying the 30274 ejector first, as others have suggested. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, it is the most economical solution. There are many reports that the new ejector profile has helped move the ejection pattern away from the face. The second reason is that it eliminates the down time of having to ship the gun and wait for its return (as well as the shipping costs).
In researching the problem, there are so many variables that affect the extraction/ejection process that a one part cure seems improbable at this point in time. While our extractors do help in many cases, there are some guns that have tolerances that are on the edge. In these cases our parts clearly do not help. So rather than pitch my snake oil as a magic cure I would rather point at the least costly options first. I really do not want to sell a part if it is not warranted, and doesn't fix the problem.
-Randy
In my Gen 3 G17 I first installed the 30274 ejector and that helped a bit. I ordered the Apex Gen3 Extractor and installed it and now all is fine. So in my case it was a combination of parts that worked. I have a Gen4 G19 coming to me any day now and hopefully I have no BTF issues with it. Crossing my fingers.
I've currently got 4 19's. The 2 3rd gen guns, 1 an RTF, have never gave me any issues. Both of the Gen 4 guns bought in 2012 were problematic. I am a Glock armorer and called them. They sent out 2 of the ejectors and 2 new recoil sring assemblies. Now one works most the time, about 1 BTF per mag and the other still sucks. I have an Apex extractor and am going to try it and see. I bought the Gen 4's for my daughter and wife so I need to get them running correctly.
While our extractors do help in many cases, there are some guns that have tolerances that are on the edge. In these cases our parts clearly do not help. So rather than pitch my snake oil as a magic cure I would rather point at the least costly options first. I really do not want to sell a part if it is not warranted, and doesn't fix the problem.
-Randy
I doubt anyone around here thinks your stuff is snake oil.
Hell you've done more to work on Glock's problems than they have. At a complete risk to your business financially and reputation-wise.
Magic_Salad0892
05-14-13, 22:11
I know Randy has been doing that in some cases, and by all reports it's the ultimate and final fix for BTF or other ejection issues. What does that cost?
Depends on who does it. My guns didn't need it. (Though they'll get the treatment anyway one day.) But a friend of mine sent his gun to Cold Bore Customs, IIRC, and they did it for around $80.
I would recommend trying the 30274 ejector first, as others have suggested. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, it is the most economical solution. There are many reports that the new ejector profile has helped move the ejection pattern away from the face. The second reason is that it eliminates the down time of having to ship the gun and wait for its return (as well as the shipping costs).
In researching the problem, there are so many variables that affect the extraction/ejection process that a one part cure seems improbable at this point in time. While our extractors do help in many cases, there are some guns that have tolerances that are on the edge. In these cases our parts clearly do not help. So rather than pitch my snake oil as a magic cure I would rather point at the least costly options first. I really do not want to sell a part if it is not warranted, and doesn't fix the problem.
-Randy
I have yet to have a need for your products. However, when the need arises you got a customer. Your reputation and your comments are what customer service is all about. Kudos to Apex...
I have swapped oem parts for oem parts on several glocks to try to cure the brass to face issue and only been successful around 1 in 3 times. The other ones that I could not get to work properly were sent back to Glock and replaced
You guys crack me up.
"I sent the Glock to the factory and after three trips it wasn't fixed."
Pretty sure the factory spec isn't getting hit in the face with brass. Although who knows maybe the armorers who test fire the gun enjoy that.
Perhaps the pistol isn't to blame?
No.... you're right.... definitely the gun.
DreadPirateMoyer
05-15-13, 10:07
What does that even mean? That we're making this up? Or the Glock fanboy excuse, "You're limpwristing it"?
It is the gun. I have owned 10 handguns in the last 3 years. The only guns that bean me in the face 3-5 times per magazine are new-production Glocks. In fact, they're the only ones that throw brass in my face at all.
Considering a new ejector and Randy's extractor have fixed both of my currently-owned Glocks and the brass-to-face/erratic ejection issue has 100% disappeared over the course of over 4,000 rounds of both shitty and quality ammunition, yes, it's the guns.
Maybe, just maybe, Glock doesn't have a fix for the problem, doesn't care to find a fix for the problem, and thus, sends the guns back with new parts that don't fix the problem because that's all the technicians can really do?
Nah, your theory is much more probable. It's probably the multitudes of people reporting this problem who have fired thousands of rounds through their guns. Yeah, probably them. Definitely not the gun.
brickboy240
05-15-13, 10:41
An update on my once very problematic 3rd gen G19:
I had a 3rd gen G19 (made in April 2012) that was horrible about brass to the face. I mean...it did it about 5-6 times per 15rd mag. the problem did not show up until about round number 800.
Got the Apex extractor made for the 3rd gen 9mm Glocks.
Well....I am at about round number 2300 or so, since installing the Apex unit and NO brass to the face at all! In fact, my G19 ejects like my 1992 made G17 - tosses all the brass in a neat little pile to my side.
I don't know if everyone's results are the same but for me...oh hell yeah...the 65 dollar Apex part TOTALLY cured my G19. I am going to guess that by 2300 rounds or so...if I have not seen brass to face show back up...the thing is fixed.
(I am now considering this G19 "GTG" and will mod it out for carry with sights and the Vickers mag release and slide stop)
So I am a huge fan of the Apex extractor.
I'd say give it a try.
-brickboy240
I installed my Apex FRE and got my updated ejector from MidwayUSA yesterday (was in stock when I got it). All installed now, and going to the range this weekend. I was getting BTF 1-2 times per mag with factory parts.
morbidbattlecry
05-15-13, 17:03
Has anyone ever heard of Glock sending back a Gen4 gun because a Gen3 couldn't be fixed? I though i read that happening somewhere.
I briefly had a 3rd gen FDE 19 that tossed brass everywhere and just didn't seem to cycle quite right. The Apex extractor didn't fix it at all so I sold the gun and kept the extractor in case one of my two known good running 19s ever needs an extractor.
On another note, I'm done with Glock over all this nonsense.
We're going on FIVE YEARS with this shit and Glock is no closer to fixing it than they ever were.
Screw 'em.
I did not get enough abuse yesterday, so I went back to the range with a friend today and shot my Gen 4 Glock 19. I shot 360 rounds without any problems. The brass all ejected at 3 O'clock 3 to 5 feet from where I was standing.
I went through 800 rounds the past two days and need to knock the dust off the RL550. It was better when someone else was buying the ammunition.
I'm a little overloaded with information at this point and there is a ton of mixed information to sift through as well. I've been shooting M&P 9mm guns for about 5 years. I have found that I seem to shoot Glocks much better, so I recently decided to start making the transition, starting with a brand new Gen3 19.
I took it out for the first time and put a couple hundred rounds through it yesterday. No actual failures, but erratic ejection was the theme of the day. I had cases dropping down on my head and on my right shoulder. I had cases popping straight up and then back down, bouncing off the gun. Had a couple in the face. All in, the previously described occurrences made up about 20% of the total rounds fired.
I don't know if "brass to face" is considered to be strictly the literal brass impacting the face, or anything in the general vicinity (head/shoulders/arm). To me, this is all highly annoying...but is it a real problem with potential to cause an actual stoppage?
I'm really on the fence today, bouncing around between trying to get Glock to fix it, playing the parts swap game myself, or just aborting this grand idea of changing over to Glock at all.
Line Rider
08-25-13, 09:05
Updated ejector fixed my BTF issue. Its $8.00 from Midway. Worth a try in my opinion.
Buy the part for Midway and find a Glock Armorer.
I'm a little overloaded with information at this point and there is a ton of mixed information to sift through as well. I've been shooting M&P 9mm guns for about 5 years. I have found that I seem to shoot Glocks much better, so I recently decided to start making the transition, starting with a brand new Gen3 19.
I took it out for the first time and put a couple hundred rounds through it yesterday. No actual failures, but erratic ejection was the theme of the day. I had cases dropping down on my head and on my right shoulder. I had cases popping straight up and then back down, bouncing off the gun. Had a couple in the face. All in, the previously described occurrences made up about 20% of the total rounds fired.
I don't know if "brass to face" is considered to be strictly the literal brass impacting the face, or anything in the general vicinity (head/shoulders/arm). To me, this is all highly annoying...but is it a real problem with potential to cause an actual stoppage?
I'm really on the fence today, bouncing around between trying to get Glock to fix it, playing the parts swap game myself, or just aborting this grand idea of changing over to Glock at all.
This is exactly how mt Gen 3 19 acted. If you send it back to the factory and ask for the 30274 ejector they will do it for you. Mine was sent there and returned in something like 10 days total, very fast. This ejector plus the APEX Extractor has made my Glock run as it should. It's bu**&^it that modifications need to be made out of the box, but it beats selling it at a loss.
G34Shooter
08-25-13, 10:04
Yes BTF literally means Brass to Face and it sucks.
Brass-to-face is the worst part of Glock's erratic ejection issues on some of their later 9mm guns. Mine was fixed with the 30274 and dropping in an Apex FRE. Cost me about $70, took about 20 minutes to install, I didn't have to hassle with sending it anywhere nor spending about that same amount on shipping. I consider that a good trade off. And that $70 I spent on the Apex FRE was certainly less than what I'd lose reselling a defective pistol.
The stupid problems with my Glock led me to get a Walther PPQ. That was a big win in my book. I'll never buy another Glock.
Here's a video of my Gen3 Glock 19 in action before Apex remediation. Note the various ejection directions in addition to the few right to he face. Clearly a defective firearm. (Click image for the video)
http://SSEquine.net/glockbtf.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmop7PlUxQ)
SpeedRacer
08-25-13, 10:56
While the ejector plays a small part, the heart of the problem lies in the extractor. It's the only logical explanation for erratic behavior, the ejector doesn't move and therefore should produce the same result every time. The angle and tension the extractor places on the casing is about the only variable, assuming a proper grip. Obviously when Glock changed the manufacturing method of their extractors they lost some control over tolerances. As far as I know they haven't redesigned or updated their extractors, so sending it back to Glock will probably only get your extractor replaced by another crappy extractor, with the hopes that that one will tolerance stack the gun into working. You can take that gamble, or get the Apex and be done with it.
When the problems were first being narrowed down to the extractor, on a theory I grabbed a few old stock pre-dip factory extractors to have on hand since I was making the transition to Gen 4 pistols. Of my two Gen 4 19s, neither displayed BTF but one did have weak, erratic ejection out of the box. I installed one of the older factory extractors and it's run like a champ for thousands of rounds since. The other ran fine to begin with, but ejection was weakening as the round count went up. At around 1000rds I threw a NOS extractor in that one as well, and again the pistol has run like a Glock should for a couple thousand rounds since.
Long story short, if you can source old style, pre-dip extractors they are worth a shot. A quick test just pull one out of an older Glock if you have one around and install it temporarily, it may work for ya. If you can't find those, the Apex is a great choice as well. Those are the only two options I consider legitimate fixes until I see a totally new extractor from Glock. And maybe they do have one by now, who knows. That's the downside of not keeping customers informed of updates and changes, and my one complaint about Glock. If you call them today complaining of brass hitting you in the face, they'll swear they've never heard of the issue before.
And that's my experience with the BTF ordeal, after wading through countless pages of varying information on countless websites and personally dealing with the issue myself. I'm not engineer though, so take it for what's it worth. :)
I am a lurker and normally don't post, but I felt that I had to speak out in this thread. I contacted Glock about two G19s that were experiencing BTF. They refused to pay for shipping. It cost me $70 to ship just one of the guns to them, and they refused to change the ejector to the 30274 ejector after I asked them. Upon it's return, the G19 had a new extractor and recoil spring, according to the paperwork. Upon inspection, the extractor had significant wear for only experiencing test firing at the factory. The pistol continued to send brass to my face, and Glock did not want to offer me any further assistance to fix the problem.
I contacted Apex to ask for assistance, and Randy sent me multiple emails in an attempt to help me. To me, this form of customer service is hard to come by in this day and age, and I hadn't even bought anything from him yet, nor did he try to even sell his products to me. Instead, he was just genuinely concerned with helping me fix my problems.
At this point, I have ordered 2 of his gen. 3 extractors and placed them in my 2 G19s. So far, they have completely fixed my problems, and I am very satisfied with the part.
Randy has made a life long customer in me at this point, and I will happily recommend his company and products which is something that I very rarely do...
You guys crack me up.
"I sent the Glock to the factory and after three trips it wasn't fixed."
Pretty sure the factory spec isn't getting hit in the face with brass. Although who knows maybe the armorers who test fire the gun enjoy that.
Perhaps the pistol isn't to blame?
No.... you're right.... definitely the gun.
Seems pretty clear that the problem is that Glock is or was unable to consistently build some of their pistols to their own specs. I agree with you...definitely the gun.
I am a lurker and normally don't post, but I felt that I had to speak out in this thread. I contacted Glock about two G19s that were experiencing BTF. They refused to pay for shipping. It cost me $70 to ship just one of the guns to them, and they refused to change the ejector to the 30274 ejector after I asked them. Upon it's return, the G19 had a new extractor and recoil spring, according to the paperwork. Upon inspection, the extractor had significant wear for only experiencing test firing at the factory. The pistol continued to send brass to my face, and Glock did not want to offer me any further assistance to fix the problem.
I contacted Apex to ask for assistance, and Randy sent me multiple emails in an attempt to help me. To me, this form of customer service is hard to come by in this day and age, and I hadn't even bought anything from him yet, nor did he try to even sell his products to me. Instead, he was just genuinely concerned with helping me fix my problems.
At this point, I have ordered 2 of his gen. 3 extractors and placed them in my 2 G19s. So far, they have completely fixed my problems, and I am very satisfied with the part.
Randy has made a life long customer in me at this point, and I will happily recommend his company and products which is something that I very rarely do...
That's good to know. And I've seen how much he helps people out. I think *if* I decide to continue down the Glock path, I'll go ahead and get the Apex FRE. It's not cheap, but Randy certainly deserves the business and it looks like the FRE is the key component in fixing the problem for good.
I bought a newer G19 a little while back. I put a 50rd box through it shortly after I bought it and no BTF. With the next 200rds or so, I got BTF. I tore the slide down and discovered I have the dipped extractor. Now to make a shopping list of parts... :rolleyes:
At least Glocks are easy to work on.
black22rifle
08-25-13, 19:59
Try the cheapest solution first. I had and austrian g 17 gen 4 that was part of the recall, i then called glock about it and they sent me the upgraded rsa. I was still getting brass to the face so i installed the 30274 ejector housing and that fixed the issues. This 17 had the non dipped extractor but I also have an austrian gen 4 19 that came from the factory with the dipped extractor and 30274 ejector and i have no issues with that one.
Psalms144.1
08-26-13, 11:18
I'm a little overloaded with information at this point and there is a ton of mixed information to sift through as well... I took it out for the first time and put a couple hundred rounds through it yesterday. No actual failures, but erratic ejection was the theme of the day. I had cases dropping down on my head and on my right shoulder. I had cases popping straight up and then back down, bouncing off the gun. Had a couple in the face. All in, the previously described occurrences made up about 20% of the total rounds fired...I'm really on the fence today, bouncing around between trying to get Glock to fix it, playing the parts swap game myself, or just aborting this grand idea of changing over to Glock at all.
Krichbaum - my two cents. I had FIVE back G19s in a row between mid-late 2010 and early 2012, with three of them being factory replacements. Of those FIVE, three were 3rd Gen, two were Gen4s. The first Gen4 was a problem out of the box, the first 3rd Gen was fine through the first 1,500 rounds or so, then became a BTF machine. #s 3-5 were all erratic and unreliable out of the box. I'm now on Gen4 #3, and was "OK" at first - but, after the first erratic ejection (straight up over my head) I bit the bullet and put the APEX FRE in it, and it has been fine ever since.
If your pistol has the latest ejector, then sending it back to the factory will accomplish exactly nothing. Glock will not do anything with it except put in another MIM extractor and send it back, though, if you're lucky (and insistent), they'll switch out the ejector as well. This will likely work OK for a couple hundred rounds, sometimes up into the 1,200-1,500 round range, then you're likely to be SOL. OBTW, Glock will want you to pay the shipping on this, so get ready to shell out about $70 to FEDEX.
So, your options are, IMHO - get the APEX FRE and the 30274 ejector and fix the problem yourself, or dump the gun - with full disclosure to the potential buyer, please.
If you shoot the Glock better than the M&P, then I'd stick with it. You're still financially better off with a Glock with the FRE & new ejector than an M&P with all the APEX parts to get the trigger cleaned up, or a match barrel to fix longer range accuracy issues...
Of course, I went a different direction altogether, and started using HK for my duty weapon - flawless reliability and accuracy that's out of this world. Yes, it's spendy, but to me, it's worth the cost for removing questions about possible reliability, and having increased confidence based on the significantly improved accuracy.
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks for that response Kevin. I ended up at the same conclusion you recommended regarding the options: either fix it myself or sell it. Not even gonna bother contacting Glock.
The 30274 ejector is on the way already. I'll probably just try the gun with the new ejector and see how it goes. If necessary I'll order the FRE. I was all hot to swap my M&P's out but now I'll just wait and see how it goes. I'm already expecting I'll need the FRE but hey, I'm in no rush.
On a related note, a shooting buddy who has several Glocks was with me when I shot this G19 the other day. Some of his are older models, his first was purchased new in 1994. He saw the erratic ejection once I pointed it out to him and he says all of his do it to some degree...he just kind of accepts it and doesn't even consider what mine is doing to be a problem. After seeing me shoot my M&P's and seeing how I shoot my new G19 as well as others, he thinks I'm crazy to not stick with the Glocks. But I guess it's all about perception...maybe if I get tired of messing with mine, he'll buy it and be happy :p
Go APEX extractor...
had a problematic G19 that i recently purchased. VAK serial number.
Was getting brass ejecting to the top of my head, brass ejecting left of the ejection port, brass ejecting forward of the pistol, a few FTE...totally all over the place.
got a gen 3 APEX extractor. put 150rds through it with the new extractor...so far flawless. completely night and day difference. strong and consistent.
set up:
APEX gen 3 extractor & spring
non-LCI SLB
original 336 ejector.
randy has been fantastic with returning emails prompty and answering all my questions. great customer service. highly recommend his product.
DAVID RICHARDS
08-28-13, 01:53
I am on my sixth (yes sixth) relacement Glock. It began over two years ago. I bought a GEN3 G19 to try to avoid The GEN4's problems. The first one didn't work out of the box. I sent it back to Glock. No luck. They replaced all the parts. Gun still had problems. They replaced it with a GEN4 G19 eventually. It was good for 800 rounds. Problems resurfaced.
Gun replaced again. Another GEN4 G19. It was good for 2000 rounds before problems surfaced again. Sent a new GEN3 G19. Worked for a few hundred rounds. I then went the route of trying to fix it myself. This was before Randy's APEX parts. Let's just say I tried every fix everyone has tried and the gun would not stay working. Sold it and bought am M&P9c and never looked back. The Compact M&P 9mm doesn't seem to share the problems of the bigger guns.
Also bought a PPQ and it is by far one of the best guns made polymer, steel, or whatever. That's another story. Anyways the 30274 ejector came out and some were saying things were better. Bought another one. Problems right out of the box. Sent another one. My last one was a USA made GEN4 G19. Newest ejector, RSA, and a non-dip extractor. Worked better than any of the others for awhile. Glock cannot or will not address the problems with these guns. Their are varying levels of bad.
Anyways Randy and his team ave been great about trying to fix the gun. The APEX kit and non-LCI spring bearing did not fix the gun. Randy has hand fit parts to it. I had the ejection port lowered. Still not 100%. Found out the follower ridge was out of spec and dragging on the brass slowing the slide velocity. Randy stoned that and is installing a slightly lighter spring. Hopefully that will do it.
Some of the folks at Glock did try to help me. And they did pay shipping every time. But I did have to go up the ladder to get it done. So besides the RSA problems, new ejector, new extractor and whatever some guns are so out of spec it does no good to replace parts. Some are fixed with a simple parts change. I can only assume the quality control on these weapons was better. And I had every problem that has been mentioned between the various guns. Go up the ladder and make Glock pay shipping if you go that route. It's hit or miss if they will fix it or replace it. Before I would pay shipping I would put the money into the APEX extractor kit and the 30274 ejector. These seem to fix most guns.
So why have I stuck with it after all I've been through? I teach shooting classes and many folks want to try a Glock. The G19 is a great gun when it works. Great balance of size, capacity, weight, and power. Plus I have a million mags and part for the guns. Randy has done more to correct these problems than Glock appears willing to do. I'm sure he can get my gun running. But like I said a lot of the really difficult ones to fix have parts way out of spec. Hope you have a happy ending. One gun in earlier posts was referred to as "the spawn of Satan". I sometimes think mine is Satan. LOL! Again hope it gets fixed. Good luck.
brickboy240
08-28-13, 11:03
I had a pretty problematic 3rd gen G19, but swapping the stock 336 ejector for the 4th gen 30274 ejector and swapping the stock extractor for the Apex unit totally cured this pistol. It now ejects like my 2nd gen G17....perfectly.
I now have about 2500 rounds through the bugger and no brass even close to my face and no jams at all. Used all sorts of ammo including steel case and some ratty range reloads. The thing flat out runs.
So yeah...I'd go to Brownell's and order the 11 dollar Gen 4 trigger housing. Yank out the 30274 ejector and place it in your stock 3rd gen trigger housing then replace your extractor with the Apex unit. Fairly cheap fix, if you ask me....but mine is living proof that it works.
-brickboy240
thopkins22
08-28-13, 11:11
Perhaps it's just passive aggression, but if I had one of the effected guns I would send it to GI, and keep sending it until it was fixed or replaced.
Well I tried a 30274 ejector in my recent gen 3 19, and it made a big difference. Granted, I don't have many rounds through the gun but it seems ok now, so far. Yesterday I had a chance to put a quick 100rds through it and most of the empties are going to 4:00. I only had two empties end up near my feet and I don't even know when they occurred (they didn't hit me that I know of, and certainly weren't to my face/head). I think it's good enough to not need the FRE, but I know that could change with more rounds through it.
Business_Casual
07-22-18, 19:43
Does anyone know if all the APEX extractors have APEX stamped on them? One of my Glocks has one but I can’t remember which one.
Does anyone know if all the APEX extractors have APEX stamped on them? One of my Glocks has one but I can’t remember which one.
Looking at it installed in the pistol there are no markings on G19.3.
El Pistolero
07-22-18, 21:44
I had a problematic brand-new Gen 4 G19 that I fixed with the Apex FRE and a non-LCI spring loaded bearing. The factory part is MIM and I had no desire to replace with the same. And Glock’s LCI design is weak-sauce to begin with so I was happy to eliminate that feature.
hotrodder636
07-23-18, 00:13
My Apex did not have any stampings or identifying marks.
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