Winchester LEO Ranger 9mm 147gr

[evilmonkey]

I went to a gun show today and picked up 2 50 rd boxes of this stuff for 27 dollars a piece. What do you think of this ammo? Is is good for carrying for defensive ammo?

[Buck]

I went to a gun show today and picked up 2 50 rd boxes of this stuff for 27 dollars a piece. What do you think of this ammo? Is is good for carrying for defensive ammo?


We use it at work and it has preformed very well...

Just my .02

Buck

[Renegade]

We use it at work and it has preformed very well...

Just my .02

Buck

When hitting people, or just at the range?

[Buck]

When hitting people, or just at the range?

When used to stop a deadly threat...

[evilmonkey]

Thanks A lot Buck for your opinion! I had been carrying the TAP 147 gr ammo in my Glock 17 for the last month and Ive havent heard very impressive stuff about the TAP 9mm ammo(I do think it is the best ammo for .223 though). I bought a restaurant about 3 months ago in not that great of a neighborhood and have been carrying my G17 for protection. The previous owner sold me the place because he got robbed and pistol whipped 5 months before he sold it to me so protection and good ammo are my main concern.

[tjcoker]

I just spoke with one of our SEB teams yesterday about this topic. They, along with one of our leading "gun guys" at our station said the samething as Buck. I have no personal experience with hitting someone with it, but I have been following the OIS's at our stations which patrol an impoverished area of the county. The verdict is the same... it works.

Of interesting note... SEB has MD's come in and discuss what damage is being done by the 147 SXT on legal threats that have been shot with it. The MD's reports are making our boys comfortable with the round apparently.

Feel safe with your choice.

[Robb Jensen]

I've used it for carry and competition, it's very accurate, pretty soft for recoil and does over 1K fps out of my Glock 17.

[Federale]

We're been using 147 gr. GDHPs for our 9mm pistols and it works well. We've recently switched to the Winchester from the Speer. It should work very well in your Glock 17. As for whether that's a good price or not, I don't know, I get mine for free. ;)

[Buck]

I get mine for free. ;)

Me too... ;)

[WS6]

I went to a gun show today and picked up 2 50 rd boxes of this stuff for 27 dollars a piece. What do you think of this ammo? Is is good for carrying for defensive ammo?

Going price is $20 a box if you order online.

I have found it to be accurate, giving me 2" groups at 15 yards from my 226 Elite ST. As stated, recoil is very sedate, but nonetheless I found that it hit a SMIDGE high compared to other, lighter loads (we are talking an inch or two at 15 yards, nothing to worry about).

It does lack hard-target penetration when I compared it to the 124gr +P Ranger T. It was much less reliable going through a car door (mid 80's crown-vic door). It is a good round, but in 9mm it seems the 124+P and 127 +P+ and a few of the 115 gr +P and +P+ rounds are the ticket. I favor them for their higher chance of expanding due to the extra velocity. Both the 147 and the 124's tend to penetrate 12"+ in gel and BG's.

[Ben Lenett]

We have had excellent performance with it in Deadly Physical Force situations, and I can vouch for that statement. The 147 Grain Ranger SXT round is an excellent choice for the 9mm. It is what I carry in my Glock 19s and 34s.

This particular round has been utilized with great success by some DOD units as well.

[Fail-Safe]

Maybe this will stop the "147gr rounds dont expand" spiel. Aw who am I kiddig, it wont.

Top: Winchester 115gr JHP w/ Lubalox coating known a SXZ(BPS exclusive)

Bottom: Winchester 147gr Ranger Talon

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Francesux/104_5749.jpg

SXZ fragged and penetrated two jugs.

Ranger Talon penetrated 3 jugs in was intact

Both came from a S&W MP9 at 10 meters.

[WS6]

The Ranger line-up is all premium stuff. Yes the 147 will reliably expand, I just feel MORE confident that the 124 will. Couple that with superior penetration of hard objects on the 124's part, and I am a fan of it. Is the 147 poor? Not in the least, it has been proven where it counts. Honestly, the difference between the two comes down to personal experience and preference. I think one camp would be hard-pressed to provide evidence against the other.

The 147gr projectiles from the 80's/early 90's as well as the early Federal HST (which sucked in every caliber pretty much until it was finally tweaked until it is the reliable expander that it is today) are what gave the 147gr 9mm's a bad name.

Also, water expansion tests bring out the best in even crappy ammo when it comes to expansion.

[Alpha Sierra]

Any truth to the gun-rag gospel that 147s should not be used in sub-4" barrel guns?

[evilmonkey]

Wish I got my ammo for free! Thanks for the information fellas, I feel better for switching from TAP ammo to the ranger ammo.:)

[tjcoker]

Any truth to the gun-rag gospel that 147s should not be used in sub-4" barrel guns?

I've heard from a tier one instructor that you want to keep the 9mm flying over 1,000 fps which the 147 does from a 5" M9... I use it in my G17/19 and feel comfortable with either of them. Our department issues it for use in the P2000SK backup gun that is optional here.

[mayonaise]

SXT is good stuff. Also has a low flash signature which is a plus. I love the 230gr +P in .45acp.

[WS6]

Any truth to the gun-rag gospel that 147s should not be used in sub-4" barrel guns?

The Ranger T should expand fine in a sub-4" application, but velocity is always helpful in expansion. Hence my preference of 124gr in 9mm.

The Ranger T is a very well-designed round.

[Fail-Safe]

The 147gr Winchester Ranger Talon is designed to meet FBI and IWBA penetration requirements AND t expand rliably in full size, down to sub-compact 9mms.

[Alpha Sierra]

The 147gr Winchester Ranger Talon is designed to meet FBI and IWBA penetration requirements AND t expand rliably in full size, down to sub-compact 9mms.

Any other 147s like that?

[DocGKR]

The majority of agencies in this area use Win RA9T and have had outstanding success with it in numerous OIS incidents in barrels from 3.5" to 5" lengths.

Keeping in mind that all service caliber handguns in general offer relatively poor incapacitation potential, any of the following loads will work adequately in 9 mm:

Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

While bullet construction is a significant factor, a gross generalization would be that faster loads tend to work a bit better against metal intermediate barriers, while the heavier loads tend to work a bit better against glass intermediate barriers.

Pick the load that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, that best suits you likely engagement scenarios, and that you can acquire in sufficient quantity (at least 1000 rounds) to assure initial function along with periodic re-assessments.

Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.

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The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.