View Full Version : Anybody try Running something "exotic" in a Carbine Classes
pointblank4445
05-13-13, 22:06
I always like to keep my eyes on the guys who run stuff other than an AR in carbine classes. I've seen the token SCAR's and AK's, and the occasional ACR.
Anybody ever run/seen something a little less conventional in a class?...HK93?...Swiss 55x?....AUG A1?...AR70? Perhaps just for the fun/challenge of it?
I'm not sure if linking to TOS is frowned upon here, if it is my bad.
But, this guy (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/398284_Ran_my_Tavor_in_Costa_Ludus_CE_01.html) ran a Tavor in a Costa class recently and gives a decent report on it.
I've seen people run a variety of guns and gear. Some had work gear that was unusual. Some did so because shaking down gear was part of their job or a sideline. Most were contrarians or victims of marketing wanting to run the latest greatest widget.
If I'm investing time, money, and effort in training I'm going to bring what I use daily. I can always run the drills or a test protocol later with alternates if I need to see how the gear or my shooting stands up.
pointblank4445
05-13-13, 23:19
If I'm investing time, money, and effort in training I'm going to bring what I use daily.
I couldn't agree more, but I think there is also something to be said for being able to pick up another platform and be able to use it to some degree, especially if it's another platform that I have chosen to keep in my stable.
Here's an example from my personal experience:
My dept. was re-writing several policies including "personally owned long-guns". They ultimately chose some poor wording regarding "factory built" and "permanently affixed sights". Thus, my BCM upper on a Colt lower with Troy sights was technically not in line with policy while my stock HK 93 was.
Thus, I ultimately opted to qualify with my HK 93 rather than our department-owned A2 Bushmasters. Not ideal, but I had maintained adequate proficiency over the last 15 years with this rifle to clamp on a Surefire and a VCAS sling and put it to work.
This foolish policy lasted less than 3 months before it was amended, and I went back to an AR. I still break out the 93 when I audit basic carbine classes to observe our new officers.
KG_mauserman
05-14-13, 00:14
I've run my SCAR 16s and 17s in two consecutive classes now. (Costa and McNamara) I'm not sure that I would consider them exotic, but some do simply because they are not AR's. If you choose to run something other than an AR be prepared to get some sideways looks when you first show up with something different. Here are some pointers.
1st thing you want to do is tell everyone how much better the platform you have is over the AR. Make sure you say something along the lines of ... Well my rifle doesn't shit where it eats and is AK reliable.
2nd thing you want to do is ask the instructor what he/she thinks of the rifle you brought every hour on the hour. when you do make sure and flash him/her your puppy dog eyes in the hope that he/she will confirm that your rifle is head and shoulders better than anything out there on the market. As they tell you how much better your rifle is they pull out thier personal AR...
3rd anytime you have a stoppage make sure you blame it on anything other than the rifle. It was the ammo, it was the magazine, it was Obama.... Make sure you emphisize the fact that you have never ever had an issue till that day in class.
4th make sure you have no idea how to do basic functions such as zeroing or mag changes so that you can not only slow the class down but also get the instructor to show you how that platform really needs to be run even though he has never seen one in his life.
5th last but not least bring no spare rifle or spare parts so that when your rifle goes down the only thing left for you to do is sell your remaining ammo to the other guys in class and go home.
Ok but really if you go to class make sure you are reasonably squared away on what ever platform you choose to bring. Don't expect anyone to clap you on the back for using something other than an AR.
Does an HK416 count?
I've run an FS2000 in a Pat Rogers carbine class and a Austrian Steyr AUGa2 in Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Spartan Tactical classes
As I wrote in another thread, when I ran the AUG and the FS2000 in a class, I had already been shooting the AR for over 20 years and had been to several carbine classes with that platform.
I imagine it would be a huge pain in the ass for the instructor to have a new shooter with a non-AR gun who has not fired it enough.
I also had thousands of rounds through the AUG and the FS2000 before I took either of these to a class.
If you go to a carbine class with a lesser known gun, don't expect the instructor to know much about it, or to sideline the class to give you personalized attention. You need to figure these out on your own.
When I ran the FS2000 through a carbine class, the gun was relatively in the US market for less than a year and there was no information about it with regards to running the gun. There still isn't.
1. You need to remove the captive spring around the firing pin if you want to run any milsurp ammo.
2. Since the FS2000 does not have drop-free mags, it is very important to push-pull whenever you seat a magazine in the gun. I have found that sometimes it may feel as though the mag is seated when it really isn't locked in. So you have to give it a good tug.
3. The biggest functional problem I found with the gun is if not handled correctly the FS2000 has been known to produce doublefeeds. This usually happens when a mag is inserted when the bolt is locked back. Sometimes a bump or a jolt to the gun will result in the bolt jumping free and trying to slam shut. But because the the bolt often does not get a good release or encounters additional drag, the bolt does not close all the way and it doesn't fully chamber a round. If you try to resolve the situation by pulling the charging handle back and chambering another round, you will wind up getting a doublefeed with two rounds trying to enter the chamber.
The workaround for this is to not insert loaded magazines when the bolt is open. Since the FS2000 does not employ a bolt hold open, this is not an issue when reloading after firing the last round of a mag has been fired. It is more of a range issue when you leave the gun with the bolt locked back for a ceasefire and then insert a magazine when it is time to fire again. I figured this out on my own before I ran took the gun to a class. It was very confusing and irritating until I finally figured out what was going on.
In Pat's class I had two malfunctions. Once because I rode the bolt forward and it did not go all the way forward because of the drag of my hand on the charging handle. When I racked the charging handle to clear it, I gave myself a doublefeed.
I had another situation in Pat's class where for whatever reason a case did not eject and got caught on the bolt face so that when the action tried to feed another round I got a doublefeed. This required me to pop the gun apart to clear. If it happened with an AR you would have had to peal the case off the boltface. I believe it was with XM193 ammo.
With the AUG, there are two problems that are often encountered. First, some people have been known to put the gas plug on the wrong setting after reassembling the gun. It doesn't have clear marks but confusing symbols so you have to make sure you reassemble it correctly and have it on the right gas setting. Don't have it on the grenade setting otherwise it will be a single shot.
The other factor is to be sure not to slam the bottom of the magazines when you seat them in the gun--especially during bolt-back reloads. A standard push-pull works best. If you slap the bottom you can dislodge a round into the chamber. Then when you release the bolt it will feed another round into the chamber, giving you a doublefeed.
Anyway, things have a way of cropping up in classes even if you have fired a bunch of rounds through the gun. When I took the first class with the AUG I had some issues. After that it ran pretty well.
I try to testfire every new-to-me magaine that I intend to use in a class. Somehow, I managed to mix an untested mag in with the rest and I had a feeding issue within the first magazine that I ran in Larry's class. He certainly didn't let me forget it.
pointblank4445
05-14-13, 00:43
I've run my SCAR 16s and 17s in two consecutive classes now. (Costa and McNamara) I'm not sure that I would consider them exotic, but some do simply because they are not AR's. If you choose to run something other than an AR be prepared to get some sideways looks when you first show up with something different. Here are some pointers.
1st thing you want to do is tell everyone how much better the platform you have is over the AR. Make sure you say something along the lines of ... Well my rifle doesn't shit where it eats and is AK reliable.
2nd thing you want to do is ask the instructor what he/she thinks of the rifle you brought every hour on the hour. when you do make sure and flash him/her your puppy dog eyes in the hope that he/she will confirm that your rifle is head and shoulders better than anything out there on the market. As they tell you how much better your rifle is they pull out thier personal AR...
3rd anytime you have a stoppage make sure you blame it on anything other than the rifle. It was the ammo, it was the magazine, it was Obama.... Make sure you emphisize the fact that you have never ever had an issue till that day in class.
4th make sure you have no idea how to do basic functions such as zeroing or mag changes so that you can not only slow the class down but also get the instructor to show you how that platform really needs to be run even though he has never seen one in his life.
5th last but not least bring no spare rifle or spare parts so that when your rifle goes down the only thing left for you to do is sell your remaining ammo to the other guys in class and go home.
Ok but really if you go to class make sure you are reasonably squared away on what ever platform you choose to bring. Don't expect anyone to clap you on the back for using something other than an AR.
pfft...I'm not selling my ammo. I'm taking it along with me and my broken Century (AK, FAL, C93...take your pick) when I go home with my tail between my legs.
Just wondering if any "niche" collectors have gone against the grain and put a "safe queen" or atypical design to use.
pointblank4445
05-14-13, 00:45
Does an HK416 count?
I suppose it could, but I have all the info I need on how they run.
I ran my sbr amd65 for super dave Harrington class.
It was nice being the only guy without any rifle problems.
SUPER was colored impressed.
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Barry in IN
05-14-13, 06:11
I've used a Garand in class before. I keep a Garand as a car/travel gun sometimes, so it wasn't done just to play.
It wasn't bad, and probably easier to use than some might think. It reminded me a lot of using a shotgun, actually, with the ammo and recoil management.
Next class I take, I'll probably use the AUG or SCAR 17 since I've been spending most of my time with them.
Edit- I guess I've already done that. I had a one-day (night) low light/night carbine class this winter and used the AUG and SCAR.
I'd make a distinction between less-common and exotic, and the definitions vary by region, class, and enrollment.
I don't care what students around me run, as long as it doesn't bog down the class. Know the gun you brought and how to perform basic operations with it. Have at least a basic level of proficiency. If you have something uncommon, be able to support and repair it yourself and/or bring a spare.
Littlelebowski
05-14-13, 09:38
Just my 5.45 AR. Never missed a beat except with 3 bad C Products mags in a Defoor class. Kept up with everything else on reliability and accuracy. Good thread.
KalashniKEV
05-14-13, 10:48
If I'm investing time, money, and effort in training I'm going to bring what I use daily.
This.
In a class, it only makes sense to run your go-to-gun.
In a competition, it's fun to run a second gun or go exotic for the day.
Ill be using my amd65 as my forever rifle.over twenty cases of ak ammo is an atestament of my faith in the 7.62 rd.
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Hunter Rose
05-14-13, 11:28
If I ever get around to getting the paddle mag release installed on my HK93, I have always wanted to take it through an AK class. The manual of arms for the HK93 and AK are pretty similar (i.e. mag changes, no bolt hold open, etc.) so I figure it wouldn't really slow up the class.
The next Carbine class I go to I will definitely be bringing along my MR762 to run through at least a portion of the drills.
diving dave
05-14-13, 11:31
I ran a Galil in Clint Smiths urban rifle class years ago... Ran like a champ and never cleaned it for the whole course.. Heavy bitch though.
Plan to use an FS2000 this summer in a carbine class. Will have a Hartford built AR in the trunk if the Belgian armament doesn't work.
Magic_Salad0892
05-14-13, 21:57
One day I'd like to run a Skorpion in a subgun class or something.
pointblank4445
05-14-13, 22:33
M1 Carbine.
You have run one or you would like/intend to?
Plan to use an FS2000 this summer in a carbine class. Will have a Hartford built AR in the trunk if the Belgian armament doesn't work.
Definitely post an AAR in this section when you do. I would love to hear about how the FS2000 wrings out.
I run an AK in competition sometimes just to challenge myself (either that, or I'm contrarian). I do enjoy running it faster than people with superior platforms, when I'm able.
About 12 years ago I had a Robinson M96. Never took a class with it but I did do some 3 gun. The other guys were very interested in it and would watch closely when I shot. It was accurate enough for me and reliable. It was also somewhat heavy and everything held together by screws would loosen after brief shooting sessions. It was OK but I sold it for something else.
You have run one or you would like/intend to?
I used a M1 Carbine in a 2 day class. I fired 500 rounds at distances from 5 yards to 100 yards. I prefer the M1 Carbine over an AR-15 carbine for clearing rooms, but the AR-15 is better for shooting quickly at ranges over 75 yards in my opinion. The 15 round magazines required reloading more often than 30 round AR-15 magazines, but I wanted to push myself with something different. I would not recommend the M1 Carbine at a course where you fire out to 200 yards.
I like to push the envelope while training and I like to instill that attitude into my students. We had a CQB qual at work that I could clean with an AR carbine. It was not a really tough course, but it did require a person to focus and work at it to pass. When one of our new people struggled to qualify and complained about the equipment and difficulty of the course, I would demonstrate how it could be done with the student's issued carbine and give tips for improving their performance.
If a student continued to complain that passing the CQB course was almost impossible, I would shoot it with a 1903A1 Springfield and shoot 93% or better. The 30-06 recoils slightly more than a 5.56mm and 5 round stripper clips are a disadvantage when a stage requires firing 6-10 shots on the move in a short amount of time. Generally seeing someone complete the course with a WWI-WWII vintage rifle would motivate them to work harder with their duty rifle.
The next time I attend a rifle class as a student, I am going to take a M1 Garand.
Littlelebowski
05-15-13, 09:51
I used a M1 Carbine in a 2 day class. I fired 500 rounds at distances from 5 yards to 100 yards. I prefer the M1 Carbine over an AR-15 carbine for clearing rooms, but the AR-15 is better for shooting quickly at ranges over 75 yards in my opinion. The 15 round magazines required reloading more often than 30 round AR-15 magazines, but I wanted to push myself with something different. I would not recommend the M1 Carbine at a course where you fire out to 200 yards.
I like to push the envelope while training and I like to instill that attitude into my students. We had a CQB qual at work that I could clean with an AR carbine. It was not a really tough course, but it did require a person to focus and work at it to pass. When one of our new people struggled to qualify and complained about the equipment and difficulty of the course, I would demonstrate how it could be done with the student's issued carbine and give tips for improving their performance.
If a student continued to complain that passing the CQB course was almost impossible, I would shoot it with a 1903A1 Springfield and shoot 93% or better. The 30-06 recoils slightly more than a 5.56mm and 5 round stripper clips are a disadvantage when a stage requires firing 6-10 shots on the move in a short amount of time. Generally seeing someone complete the course with a WWI-WWII vintage rifle would motivate them to work harder with their duty rifle.
The next time I attend a rifle class as a student, I am going to take a M1 Garand.
Good stuff.
Army Chief
05-15-13, 10:31
I'd like to have the bollocks to take a lever gun to a class, but ...
(a) it would probably have to be a lever gun-centric course (because of capacity/reloading considerations), and
(b) it would have it be a .30-30 (because I'd probably last about a drill-and-a-half -- at best -- with the .45-70). ;)
AC
I ran an FAL for part of a carbine course. Other than the weight (and less than optimal iron sights), it wasn't bad. I had some FTEject issues so I very quickly learned malfunction clearance.
And it was fun.
My line neighbor in a Vickers class used (attempted to use) a MKE MP5 clone, I think it was MKE. We should have nicknamed it Mama Cass. Waste of time... not certain of what mags he was using but they were definitely a root cause.
For a long time all I had was a FAL Para, so that's what I ran. It was never a problem, other than making a lot more noise than the other guys...and you can't carry as much ammo as easily.
KalashniKEV
05-15-13, 14:33
My line neighbor in a Vickers class used (attempted to use) a MKE MP5 clone, I think it was MKE. We should have nicknamed it Mama Cass. Waste of time... not certain of what mags he was using but they were definitely a root cause.
I'm surprised if it was an MKE.
Mine has been solid... even with the cheap Korean mags.
I did notice excessive lip wear though and discontinued use, which probably has something to do with it.
misanthropist
05-15-13, 17:17
Personally nothing more exotic than a VZ58.
Have seen Tavors, SIG 551s, 2s and 3s, and other VZs.
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I used a M1 Carbine in a 2 day class. I fired 500 rounds at distances from 5 yards to 100 yards. I prefer the M1 Carbine over an AR-15 carbine for clearing rooms, but the AR-15 is better for shooting quickly at ranges over 75 yards in my opinion. The 15 round magazines required reloading more often than 30 round AR-15 magazines, but I wanted to push myself with something different. I would not recommend the M1 Carbine at a course where you fire out to 200 yards.
I like to push the envelope while training and I like to instill that attitude into my students. We had a CQB qual at work that I could clean with an AR carbine. It was not a really tough course, but it did require a person to focus and work at it to pass. When one of our new people struggled to qualify and complained about the equipment and difficulty of the course, I would demonstrate how it could be done with the student's issued carbine and give tips for improving their performance.
If a student continued to complain that passing the CQB course was almost impossible, I would shoot it with a 1903A1 Springfield and shoot 93% or better. The 30-06 recoils slightly more than a 5.56mm and 5 round stripper clips are a disadvantage when a stage requires firing 6-10 shots on the move in a short amount of time. Generally seeing someone complete the course with a WWI-WWII vintage rifle would motivate them to work harder with their duty rifle.
The next time I attend a rifle class as a student, I am going to take a M1 Garand.
Bet you could top that 93 percent with a Enfield NO.1 :cool:
I'd like to have the bollocks to take a lever gun to a class, but ...
(a) it would probably have to be a lever gun-centric course (because of capacity/reloading considerations), and
(b) it would have it be a .30-30 (because I'd probably last about a drill-and-a-half -- at best -- with the .45-70). ;)
AC
Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt
http://www.rrarms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/_/1_14_423.jpg
If you really want to lighten the recoil, there's always the 32 H&R Magnum
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/marlin/1894cb-32.jpg
Somewhere in between is the 38/357
Failure2Stop
05-15-13, 19:57
I think I'd give half off if someone showed up to a class with either a Garand or a lever gun.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I think I'd give half off if someone showed up to a class with either a Garand or a lever gun.
And for a M14? :)
If well set up and the owner is squared away other guns can be run well.
I have seen reliable M1 carbines being used at various classes that I was either attending or helping teach. Some of those ran with no issues, others had magazine issues, or the guy shooting it didn't know how to keep it running.
Same-same with the AKs and HKs I have seen at class.
I would love to get into a Randy Cain class and run either a bolt gun or lever gun, I wouldn't try to do so in your average carbine class without the instructor knowing well ahead of time that I was doing so and agreeing to having me run that gear.
misanthropist
05-16-13, 10:05
Provided I had prior approval, I'd love to run a lever in a class...I have a 92 in .357 that would be great for that.
I would have to practice reloading a lot, though. I am not quick with it.
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A real problem with running a .357 may be the size of the rounds.
I had a friend who attended a practical rifle class with a .223 and .308 bolt action rifles, using the .223 to run some of the drills to save on ammo costs.
The gun could hit fine at distance, but juggling the smaller rounds into the magazine was a real problem for him. Friends who run cowboy action guns tell me this as well, with rounds such as the 30-30 being easier to load due to the round being longer and tapered.
Just an FYI.
Here's me running a tec 9 in my last urban combat class...
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/0/0d/M2S-TEC9-1.jpg/600px-M2S-TEC9-1.jpg
Last year I used a Robinson Arms XCR Mini (factory 10" SBR) in a local 2 days class. One FTF at the beginning of the first day that I traced to a 1st gen PMag. It ran perfect for the remainder of the class. Total round count was approximately 600 rounds.
It was a good opportunity to run the rifle which was fairly new with >1K through it. No trouble keeping up at distance if I did my part. Only complaint from other shooters was the muzzle bast with the factory A2 compensator. I'm considering a SF brake. The only thing keeping me from getting one is the absolute rude effects on other shooters.
Mike
Magic_Salad0892
05-16-13, 10:53
Here's me running a tec 9 in my last urban combat class...
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/0/0d/M2S-TEC9-1.jpg/600px-M2S-TEC9-1.jpg
I see IG there wearing a ski mask in the driver's seat.
You're too tactical to conceal your identity like your buddies?
You're an amatuer, bro.
You're too tactical to conceal your identity like your buddies?
You're an amatuer, bro.
It gets hot... and since it was only training, I just hooded up. :cool:
I still yelled "Check Yo Self, Fool!"
AZ-Renegade
05-16-13, 11:10
Is that Pappabear dual wielding in the back seat?
Is that Pappabear dual wielding in the back seat?
Of course. :rolleyes: "SIMP"ing the handgun collection as usual.
Several years ago when Blackwater was still called Blackwater, a good friend completed their 1 week carbine course using an early Arsenal SA-M7 (a milled receiver semi auto AK 47). He used imported magazines and steel cased Wolf ammunition.
This friend is not LEO or .mil, and he indicated he was the only “civilian” in the class; the majority were from specialized LEO units, and there were 2 newly-hired contractors. He was the only student who did not bring an AR based carbine to the class.
He also indicated that one student was kicked out the 1st day for lack of muzzle discipline & repeated safety violations.
The rifle proved adequate for the class demands and was fully reliable during the week (not surprising for a Kalashnikov with imported magazines). I have no information on whether he cleaned it nor how it was lubricated. This friend was not trying to set world speed records & he focused on learning as well as getting accurate hits. He did mention that the sights were challenging to use compared to the Aimpoints on many guy’s carbines he tried out.
By the end of the week, the remaining students all passed the class and had sort of bonded during the week; so much so that they and their instructor were asking to try out my friend’s gun on the steel targets after class (of course he obliged).
Point is not that the particular AK carbine was the BEST choice (probably far from it) but simply that it was suitable for completing the class. Reliability counts for something when you are paying a lot of $$$ for a limited amount of time.
Magic_Salad0892
05-16-13, 12:06
It gets hot... and since it was only training, I just hooded up. :cool:
I still yelled "Check Yo Self, Fool!"
I imagine that Pappabear yells "BEFORE YOU WRECK YOSELF, FOOL!" from the back seat.
Moose-Knuckle
05-16-13, 20:41
I'd like to have the bollocks to take a lever gun to a class, but ...
(a) it would probably have to be a lever gun-centric course (because of capacity/reloading considerations), and
(b) it would have it be a .30-30 (because I'd probably last about a drill-and-a-half -- at best -- with the .45-70). ;)
AC
I always wanted a reasaon to do this to a lever gun.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/TacticalLeverAction.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/TacticalLeverAction.jpg.html)
misanthropist
05-16-13, 23:05
A real problem with running a .357 may be the size of the rounds.
I had a friend who attended a practical rifle class with a .223 and .308 bolt action rifles, using the .223 to run some of the drills to save on ammo costs.
The gun could hit fine at distance, but juggling the smaller rounds into the magazine was a real problem for him. Friends who run cowboy action guns tell me this as well, with rounds such as the 30-30 being easier to load due to the round being longer and tapered.
Just an FYI.That is definitely true. The advantage is 10 rounds in the tube; the disadvantage is that cramming the small, rimmed cartridges in under any sort of time constraint is difficult. If I put 50 rounds through my 92, my right thumbnail usually has a noticeable notch in it from cramming the rounds past the loading gate.
Last year my brother and his friend brought Sig 556s to a class. By far the heaviest rifles chosen for the class. I used my 10.5" sbr, I felt like a wimp haha.
I think I'd give half off if someone showed up to a class with either a Garand or a lever gun.
In addition to recent changes in local hunting regs, that would justify the purchase :D
My brother and I ran Steyr AUG-Z rifles in a 4-day carbine class. In terms of reliability they were much superior to whats available in Europe's M4 clone market.
Tell me about the class. Can anyone go..EU citizens and such??
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Friend ran his Kel-Tec SU-16CA in a 4 day rifle course at Front Sight.
Tell me about the class. Can anyone go..EU citizens and such??
What would be the problem with carbine classes and EU citizens? I teach several carbine classes in Europe for Europeans annually. Europe is not homogenous, in some countries gun laws are nearly reasonable.
CA_Shooter
05-17-13, 16:44
Ran my Mini-14 (581-x series) in a couple of local carbine classes here in CA. One was a 2-day, 750 +/- round count course with no issues. The other was a 1-day basic carbine course with about 300 rounds fired. Again it ran with no issues compared to some of the AR style rifles in attendance.
Being in CA with all the restrictions I wanted to see how it would fare given it is one of the few "uncrippled" semi-auto rifles available for use. Prior to the courses I had about 1000 rounds downrange on it, mostly cheap steel cased fodder.
While I certainly wouldn't consider it a combat arm, as a "fighting" rifle you could do a lot worse.
I think some are defining "exotic" as "not an AR."
Think of something not commonly in GP hands, not often seen in the wild otherwise, etc...
I will likely run my SIG (Neuhasen, not Exeter) 551-2 sbr in a class this summer. Need to get my T1 installed first.
I ran my SIG 551 2 SP SWAT in a recent carbine class as well as shooting it in the NRA TPC in April. I ran irons at both. I am really liking this rifle. Very accurate, and mag changes are very smooth and fast.
Josh, make sure to get on the far right of the firing line when you take that class, so as not to ping anyone with the positive brass ejection of the SIG.
Chad, good point about the brass. Actually I think it would be fun to run irons. Will have to consider it. What sling did you use?
Mr. Greene
05-18-13, 21:02
I've run an AUG at a class beffore just to get myself familiar with the gun as a just in case this was all I had availible and it was kind of fun relearning a long gun. And at one of my agencies carbine class's I sat in and grabbed a MP5K out of the armory there and ran it over the 3 days and that was a blast
Chad, good point about the brass. Actually I think it would be fun to run irons. Will have to consider it. What sling did you use?
I ran a BFG Vickers sling with the wire sling adaptors at either end. I also picked up the Kerbs extended safety which I highly recommend. The iron sights on the SIGs are in a class of their own.
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