View Full Version : Colt-D.D.-KAC...?
Ok, Many here explained why they prefer the KAC over the LaRue...in previous thread...that over $2,000. KAC is about as good as it gets...
...however, is the SR 15 E3.1 IWS ...$800.-$1,000. better than the COLT LE6920Socom or
$700. better than the Daniel Defense DDM4 V3 ?
Especially the DDM4 V3...which is also a "light" gun...isn't that
Daniel Defense's "thing" ..."Lighter - Stronger", or something to that effect?
I know the KAC bolt is better...but, ?
Just wondering ..or ?
I can afford the KAC...but is it REALLY that much more worth it than a good Colt or D.D?
:help:
What's your intended use? How often do you shoot? This a range toy or fighting carbine? How much money do you make?
That probably depends on how much $700-1000 means to you.
I know the KAC bolt is better...but, ?
Ambi lower, high end folding sights, LMT stock is fairly expensive
No idea if the KAC 2-stage trigger measures up to a Geissele SSA, but that is another ~$200. I prefer my DDM4 v7 lw with $800 in the bank for select tweaks (e.g. BUIS, trigger, etc), but if you prefer the rail and stock, then yeah it is probably worth it if it is in your budget day one.
Failure2Stop
05-14-13, 06:06
How much is a fully ambi lower worth to you?
How about the 12.5" free floated rail?
How about the SOPMOD stock?
How about the 2-stage trigger?
How about the micro BUIS?
How about the improved bolt and barrel extension design?
How about the improved charging handle?
Priced separately, that's more $$ than the price gap.
The nice thing is that the Mod1 comes out of the box ready to rock, no tinkering or bench-time to make it top notch. Whether our not that is worth the price gap is up to you.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
How much is a fully ambi lower worth to you?
How about the 12.5" free floated rail?
How about the SOPMOD stock?
How about the 2-stage trigger?
How about the micro BUIS?
How about the improved bolt and barrel extension design?
How about the improved charging handle?
Priced separately, that's more $$ than the price gap.
The nice thing is that the Mod1 comes out of the box ready to rock, no tinkering or bench-time to make it top notch. Whether our not that is worth the price gap is up to you.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Exactly what I was going to say.
You really can't beat the KAC Mod1.
KAC, Colt & DD are all excellent choices (the only choices for some), and you really can't go wrong with any of them. It comes down to what features you need/want, and how much money you're willing to spend.
How much is a fully ambi lower worth to you?
How about the 12.5" free floated rail?
How about the SOPMOD stock?
How about the 2-stage trigger?
How about the micro BUIS?
How about the improved bolt and barrel extension design?
How about the improved charging handle?
Priced separately, that's more $$ than the price gap.
The nice thing is that the Mod1 comes out of the box ready to rock, no tinkering or bench-time to make it top notch. Whether our not that is worth the price gap is up to you.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
That's why I have more then 1. I did change the grip since I don't like the A2, but they are ready to go out of the box.
MichaelVain
05-14-13, 08:07
Honestly, when you look at all the features that come with the KAC SR15 E3 IWS legacy or Mod1, it's really a great deal. If you browse some of the picture threads, you will often times see people with non KAC rifles with KAC handguards and KAC rear sights. Priced separately, those 2 items themselves would almost cover your price difference.
By purchasing the SR15 from the start you not only get the KAC rifle and it's design benefits, but all the other KAC items that make the package a no brainer in terms of value/cost.
Go with KAC, you won't regret it.
PatrioticDisorder
05-14-13, 09:42
How much is a fully ambi lower worth to you?
How about the 12.5" free floated rail?
How about the SOPMOD stock?
How about the 2-stage trigger?
How about the micro BUIS?
How about the improved bolt and barrel extension design?
How about the improved charging handle?
Priced separately, that's more $$ than the price gap.
The nice thing is that the Mod1 comes out of the box ready to rock, no tinkering or bench-time to make it top notch. Whether our not that is worth the price gap is up to you.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I don't own KAC, but that's pretty much the conclusion I came too. The only knock I can see about the company is difficulty in obtaining replacement parts (E3 bolt), other than that super high value, not to mention innovation.
What's your intended use? How often do you shoot? This a range toy or fighting carbine? How much money do you make?
That probably depends on how much $700-1000 means to you.
>LOL...when ammo is available...every week, 2200-300 Rnds or more.
>$700-1000. well, I am not Bill Gates...but I do have the disposable cash and while I have NO problem spending that much, I do not want to over-spend unnecessarily. Am fighting daily with it, LOL, no, how many here are...?
Just wondering how much more I am paying for the KAC, and for what or does it matter much?
How much is a fully ambi lower worth to you?
How about the 12.5" free floated rail?
How about the SOPMOD stock?
How about the 2-stage trigger?
How about the micro BUIS?
How about the improved bolt and barrel extension design?
How about the improved charging handle?
Priced separately, that's more $$ than the price gap.
The nice thing is that the Mod1 comes out of the box ready to rock, no tinkering or bench-time to make it top notch. Whether our not that is worth the price gap is up to you.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Ah, spoken like a ture "company man"...no sarcism intended, and you do have great "back-up" here, unbiased or not?
So then, what is the differences between the KAC SR15 E3 IWS legacy or NON-"mod1"SR15 E3.1 IWS, vs. the SR15 E3.1 IWS Mod1
Colt-D.D.-KAC...?
Tough decision, like which child do you want to keep. You really can't go wrong so just pick the best for your application. I have a DD M4V3 LW that's great.
Yeah, you really can't go wrong...
It simply comes down to whether or not the SR-15 configuration is what you want. If it is, buy one without a second thought, and be thrilled.
If you want something that is much different, then the value of those features is harder to justify.
A more fair comparison would be what can you do with a DD V5 LW, GSSA, BAD-ASS ambi selector, and B5 SOPMOD/IMOD/STR stock.
The MOD-1 SR-15's are just amazing feeling rifles, I'm still seriously contemplating a very cost-inefficeint update on my Mod0 to put the URX3.1 rail on it, the handguard is that good. The highest compliment I can pay my DD V5LW unit is that the feel is as good as the SR-15 it lives in the same rifle bag as - but this is a DD carbine with a BC1.0 and a VLTOR A5 on it, that is otherwise a very light stick.
This probably isn't much help, so I'll go with the part I am sure about - if you like the KAC feature set on either half of the rifle, GET THE COMPLETE RIFLE. Buying either half of them is not as ideal as you'd think cost wise, and basically it's hard to buy a better other half of the rifle anyway - with great effort I can cobble together a lower that is comparable in value to me (Noveske Gen2, GSSA, Magpul everything, VLTOR A5 kit), but for more cost; and as gorgeous as the few Colt 6720/URX3.1 uppers I've seen are, the cost with those BUIS creeps right back up there.
At this point, the most competitive setup against it would be a 16" Middy (Noveske N4, Centurion CHF/LW, DD CHF, BCM BFH) Barreled unit with a 13.5" NSR rail, get the new MagPul BUIS, and put a hybrid muzzle device on it - you'll be close on weight, performance, and balance, and a few hundred under on cost. IF you feel you need that sort of upper anyway.
A lot of the features on the KAC are something like a Track Package for a sports car - a few grand for really good brakes looks good on paper, is practically useless on the road, but the first couple times you really run it hard, if you ever do, it'll be the best money you've spent. I think of my KAC stuff the same way, and then usually get upset at myself for not wanting to spend more money on ammunition to really get some quality use out of it.
It simply comes down to whether or not the SR-15 configuration is what you want. If it is, buy one without a second thought, and be thrilled.
If you want something that is much different, then the value of those features is harder to justify.
A more fair comparison would be what can you do with a DD V5 LW, GSSA, BAD-ASS ambi selector, and B5 SOPMOD/IMOD/STR stock.
The MOD-1 SR-15's are just amazing feeling rifles, I'm still seriously contemplating a very cost-inefficeint update on my Mod0 to put the URX3.1 rail on it, the handguard is that good. The highest compliment I can pay my DD V5LW unit is that the feel is as good as the SR-15 it lives in the same rifle bag as - but this is a DD carbine with a BC1.0 and a VLTOR A5 on it, that is otherwise a very light stick.
This probably isn't much help, so I'll go with the part I am sure about - if you like the KAC feature set on either half of the rifle, GET THE COMPLETE RIFLE. Buying either half of them is not as ideal as you'd think cost wise, and basically it's hard to buy a better other half of the rifle anyway - with great effort I can cobble together a lower that is comparable in value to me (Noveske Gen2, GSSA, Magpul everything, VLTOR A5 kit), but for more cost; and as gorgeous as the few Colt 6720/URX3.1 uppers I've seen are, the cost with those BUIS creeps right back up there.
At this point, the most competitive setup against it would be a 16" Middy (Noveske N4, Centurion CHF/LW, DD CHF, BCM BFH) Barreled unit with a 13.5" NSR rail, get the new MagPul BUIS, and put a hybrid muzzle device on it - you'll be close on weight, performance, and balance, and a few hundred under on cost. IF you feel you need that sort of upper anyway.
A lot of the features on the KAC are something like a Track Package for a sports car - a few grand for really good brakes looks good on paper, is practically useless on the road, but the first couple times you really run it hard, if you ever do, it'll be the best money you've spent. I think of my KAC stuff the same way, and then usually get upset at myself for not wanting to spend more money on ammunition to really get some quality use out of it.
WoW...great detailed response & info, leave it to a Marine:thank_you2:Semper Fi
Will consider this and all others feedback...
...starting to feel like, well I can buy these other fine rifles, but will I always wonder about the KAC and end up still wanting one.
Wish there was one locally here I could at least hold...?
Any Vegas SR 15 URX 3.1 KAC'ers around...?
WoW...great detailed response & info, leave it to a Marine:thank_you2:Semper Fi
Will consider this and all others feedback...
...starting to feel like, well I can buy these other fine rifles, but will I always wonder about the KAC and end up still wanting one.
Wish there was one locally here I could at least hold...?
Any Vegas SR 15 URX 3.1 KAC'ers around...?
Nevadashooters.com
I'd help, but I won't be in Vegas again for a while.
You couldn't GIVE me one of those KAC guns with all that proprietary shit on there. :mad:
The idea that KAC is as good as it gets is friggin silly. It's nicely made and all that... but for whom??? :confused:
Nevadashooters.com
I'd help, but I won't be in Vegas again for a while.
Thanks...it's ok, I have heard enough on this thread and others...
...as well as reviews.
Just bought me one from
Dixie Gunworks, UT..
Seem like standup guys.
They had 20...down to 6, now.
Latest version SR15 URX 3.1 IWS.
:dance3:
Now...what would you put atop that top rail
for optics...?
What does this baby deserve?
ScatmanCrothers
05-14-13, 15:40
You couldn't GIVE me one of those KAC guns with all that proprietary shit on there. :mad:
The idea that KAC is as good as it gets is friggin silly. It's nicely made and all that... but for whom??? :confused:
Well, shit. Now op's probably back at square one and conjuring up a DD-LMT-BCM...? thread as we speak :suicide:
Well, shit. Now op's probably back at square one and conjuring up a DD-LMT-BCM...? thread as we speak :suicide:
LoL Jerry...yes "Jerry"...that would make the other clown you responded to...
"Dean".
Ladies & Gentlemen...wee have Jerry Lewis & Dean Martin...
Jerry tells the jokes and Dean sings the songs and gets the girls...
...(clap, clap, clap.)
:jester::big_boss:
MichaelVain
05-14-13, 16:28
Thanks...it's ok, I have heard enough on this thread and others...
...as well as reviews.
Just bought me one from
Dixie Gunworks, UT..
Seem like standup guys.
They had 20...down to 6, now.
Latest version SR15 URX 3.1 IWS.
:dance3:
Now...what would you put atop that top rail
for optics...?
What does this baby deserve?
I think it depends on what you want to do with it.
An all-purpose type optic might be a 1-4x optic. There are many on the market at all kinds of price ranges.
For 100 yards and in, many will probably recommend the Aimpoint T1 or H1. Then there are the Eotech XPS3's.
I have had very good experiences with the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x. Between Aimpoint T1(H1) and the Eotech XPS, I actually prefer the Eotech XPS for run and gun. For groundhogs and such, the Aimpoint T1.
MichaelVain
05-14-13, 16:35
You couldn't GIVE me one of those KAC guns with all that proprietary shit on there. :mad:
The idea that KAC is as good as it gets is friggin silly. It's nicely made and all that... but for whom??? :confused:
Aside from the bolt, I don't think there's anything else that's proprietary. Someone can correct me, but I don't think the bolt carrier, cam pin, firing pin, double spring extractor are proprietary. You could stick the proprietary bolt (read: better designed) in any bolt carrier (if I recall).
You can swap the rear sight out and you can just not utilize the built in fold down front sight and put some other front sight on the rail.
Aside from the bolt, I don't think there's anything else that's proprietary. Someone can correct me, but I don't think the bolt carrier, cam pin, firing pin, double spring extractor are proprietary. You could stick the proprietary bolt (read: better designed) in any bolt carrier (if I recall).
You can swap the rear sight out and you can just not utilize the built in fold down front sight and put some other front sight on the rail.
Barrel extension, gas tube length/barrel, lower receiver (left hand mag release and right hand bolt release), barrel nut, bolt.
MichaelVain
05-14-13, 18:33
Barrel extension, gas tube length/barrel, lower receiver (left hand mag release and right hand bolt release), barrel nut, bolt.
Thanks for the correction and clarification. I was coming from the pov of parts that would have to be replaced after a threshold # of rounds.
Is there some data that would suggest when they would need to be replaced (if at all)?
I think one of my SR15 with the most rounds is somewhere around 4,000.
You couldn't GIVE me one of those KAC guns with all that proprietary shit on there. :mad:
Oh I bet someone could.
As markm and others have pointed out, there are some "non standard" components on an SR15 - you need to assess if they are worth it for you, and at what cost. To me, they very much were worth it, and I couldn't be happier with mine. I have other ARs from top tier vendors to fill my need for 'standard config' ARs.
F2S and others would be more of an authority - while not recommended you can run a standard bolt in an SR15 in an emergency, if that is a concern of yours.
As for the myth of "parts are hard to find" - I haven't had any trouble in procuring the field repair kit as well as an entire bolt assembly (I actually found my backup SR15 bolt quicker than I found another BCM BCG). Just had to keep an eye out for stock. Right now, everything is hard to come by, current parts availability isn't indicative of future parts availability and I can't hold it against any reputable manufacturer.
EDITED TO ADD:
I feel like a broken record recently (I posted something similar in a G19 vs M&P9c thread the other day)... the OPs question centers around vetted, quality, AR manufacturers. The truth is, you can't go wrong with any of them (BCM, Colt, DD, KAC, Larue, etc.). I understand the OPs original question was "is the price difference worth it", but ultimately, just get something and shoot the holy heck out of it. Then decide if it's for you or not. No matter what you decide, sticking to a top tier AR is a good decision you'll be happy with. Kudos for setting yourself up for success with a good AR.
As markm and others have pointed out, there are some "non standard" components on an SR15 - you need to assess if they are worth it for you, and at what cost. To me, they very much were worth it, and I couldn't be happier with mine. I have other ARs from top tier vendors to fill my need for 'standard config' ARs.
F2S and others would be more of an authority - while not recommended you can run a standard bolt in an SR15 in an emergency, if that is a concern of yours.
As for the myth of "parts are hard to find" - I haven't had any trouble in procuring the field repair kit as well as an entire bolt assembly (I actually found my backup SR15 bolt quicker than I found another BCM BCG). Just had to keep an eye out for stock. Right now, everything is hard to come by, current parts availability isn't indicative of future parts availability and I can't hold it against any reputable manufacturer.
EDITED TO ADD:
I feel like a broken record recently (I posted something similar in a G19 vs M&P9c thread the other day)... the OPs question centers around vetted, quality, AR manufacturers. The truth is, you can't go wrong with any of them (BCM, Colt, DD, KAC, Larue, etc.). I understand the OPs original question was "is the price difference worth it", but ultimately, just get something and shoot the holy heck out of it. Then decide if it's for you or not. No matter what you decide, sticking to a top tier AR is a good decision you'll be happy with. Kudos for setting yourself up for success with a good AR.
Good info & post...thanks, and I did "jump" today and grabbed my very own KAC...get while the getting is good, I figured, as all the other sources I could find, were "out of stock" and backordered or said about 8 months?
These guys at Dixie, had 20 previously ordered at the shows...and now, after my purchase, six are left
So I was looking at either the Daniel Defense DDM4 V3 Mid-Length or the Colt LE 6920 Socom when trying to decide.
So I think I will be happy with the KAC SR-15E3.1 IWS Mod 1 something different.
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