View Full Version : Noveske KX3 (Flaming Pig) inside your rail systems?
I am currently in the process of building an AR. I want a Noveske KX3 flash hider (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx3556p&cat=141&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=) that sits inside the rail system. From what I have gathered, the Troy TRX (http://store.troyind.com/Troy_BattleRail_Alpha_p/strx-al1-15bt-01.htm) is one of the few rail systems that has the overall diameter to have the fit inside the rail. I personally like the look (similar to having a suppressor installed). Anyone have experience with this? Pros and Cons?
P.S. I tried searching and couldn't find a thread on here that covers this particular topic. If one exist, I apologize.
The KX3 is 1.35" in diameter. For reference, a Daniel Defense MFR is 1.61" inside diameter, but a Lite rail is only 1.22"... a Fortis rail is 1.34". I'm pretty sure a Noveske NSR is only 1.31". In conclusion, you have to be real careful which hand guard you choose, but there are ones out there that fit.
I'm building one too.. i'll be using Rainier Arms Evo 9" on Noveske 8.5" barrel. Just waiting for my Vltor 1A to arrive this week.
Voodoo_Man
05-14-13, 17:32
I would assume that this would make the end of the hand guard super hot after a few rounds.
Along with making the stick very muzzle heavy if over 12 or so inches in length.
I would assume that this would make the end of the hand guard super hot after a few rounds.
I am going to have a 14.5" Daniel Defense Carbine length barrel (https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/14-5-inch-chf-barrels/14-5-5-56mm-1-7-m4-profile.html) with a 15" Troy TRX rail. The KX3 shouldn't be too deep inside the rail to make it hot.
The Noveske KX3 (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx3556p&cat=11) has an overall diameter of 1.35".
After researching.... here are some rail systems that could possibly work:
The Rainier Arms Evolution Rail (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3294) has an interior diameter of 1.56".
The Seekins Precision MCSR V2 Key Mod Rail (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3193) has an interior diameter of 1.80".
The Daniel Defense Modular Float Rail (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2644) has an interior diameter of 1.61".
I couldn't find any information on the interior diameter of the Troy BattleRail Alpha Rail (http://store.troyind.com/Troy_BattleRail_Alpha_p/strx-al1-15bt-01.htm) on their website. But one site (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/3058728803/troy-industries-15-alpha-battle-rail-modular-free-float-handguard-ar-15) showed the interior diameter to be 1.37".
Spikes BAR, fits like a glovehttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/15/nyquhyty.jpg
Did you have any issues with the install? How long is your barrel?
I believe the Apex handguard would work.
NeoNeanderthal
05-14-13, 21:15
IF going the troy route, get the alpha rail, not the TRX
matchstick
05-14-13, 21:30
From Troy in an email response about the differences between the Alpha and VTAC. Both have the same ID and OD (ID 1.39", OD 1.75"). Hope that helps
IF going the troy route, get the alpha rail, not the TRX
Thanks. Do you have any experience with building this setup?
I ordered the following items:
- Vltor MUR 1A upper (http://www.advancedtacticalsolutions.com/products/VLTOR-MUR-1A-Upper-Receiver.html)
- DD 14.5" carbine length barrel (https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/14-5-inch-chf-barrels/14-5-5-56mm-1-7-m4-profile.html)
- BCM low profile gas block (.750") (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Low-Profile-Gas-Block-p/bcm-lgb-.750.htm)
- BCM barrel nut (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Barrel-Nut-AR15-p/barrel%20nut%20ar15.htm)
- BCM gas tube (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-carbine-gas-tube-p/gas%20tube%20-%20carbine.htm)
- Noveske KX3 (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx3556p&cat=11)
The KX3 has to been permanently pinned onto the barrel to have the overall length of at least 16". So I have put the barrel nut on first, then the gas block, then the KX3 pinned on. Then install the barrel/gas tube to the Vltor MUR upper. Finally install the Troy BattleRail Alpha to the upper. Is that correct? This is based on watching a bunch of DIY videos on YouTube.
From Troy in an email response about the differences between the Alpha and VTAC. Both have the same ID and OD (ID 1.39", OD 1.75"). Hope that helps
Awesome! Thank you!
Well, since you asked: Pros: None I can think of... (It looks cool, individual taste dependent?)
Cons: You will likely grow to detest the extra 1/2lb anchor sitting all the way at the end of the barrel jacking up the balance (for no reason), swap the rail for a 10-12" model and the KX3 for a normal FH and sell the 15" rail and KX3 for whatever you are lucky enough to get for it. So, why not just end up there from the start and save the time and money?
Technical "cons". Why get a 14.5" barrel only to add over 3" in muzzle device? Cost, over $100, yikes! Function, increases back-pressure...not needed at all for a 14.5" barrel (not needed on my 10.5 either). Weight. Does not reduce flash nearly as well as a blackout/vortex or Phantom at half the cost or less.
A LW profile 14.5" barrel and a 12" rail with any standard FH would be a very nice handling (and badass looking) carbine.
I really dig the look of the KX3's myself, but went through the above thoughts when I got my 10.5" barrel and just went with a non-mount AAC Blackout. I never could get over how heavy, long, and expensive the KX3 is...for not much in return besides looking cool.
My posted pic is of a 9" AAC .300 BLK barrel...10" BAR rail, and the KX3. It all works great.
Although I have no basis to prove it...I genuinely think the added back pressure helps with my flawless reliability in shooting subsonic rounds without issue. I don't do it often, but sometimes that's all I have.
I'm dreading going with a can soon...I really don't want to have to change rails. And I'm pretty sure the 7.62 SDN-6 will not be easy to remove once locked in place. I think it needs to be on a gun with a barrels threads exposed unlike mine.
Just an update... I got all the parts now and starting to assume it. The next step is to take the barrel and KX3 to the gunsmith to have it permanently pinned (to meet California laws).
Here are some pics:
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l155/davidnguyen1151/Guns/B9E12036-B000-4E0F-9CE5-93363467D7DA-19751-0000075713A4210B_zpsc5976a7f.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/davidnguyen1151/media/Guns/B9E12036-B000-4E0F-9CE5-93363467D7DA-19751-0000075713A4210B_zpsc5976a7f.jpg.html)
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l155/davidnguyen1151/Guns/D5E54B19-8CCE-4B11-A921-BCE91E419C03-19751-0000075709DFB8E0_zps3636cc90.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/davidnguyen1151/media/Guns/D5E54B19-8CCE-4B11-A921-BCE91E419C03-19751-0000075709DFB8E0_zps3636cc90.jpg.html)
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l155/davidnguyen1151/Guns/7EB5CD8E-F2E4-43F0-954C-A6357FCB8051-19751-000007570E8EE1A4_zps9af2c661.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/davidnguyen1151/media/Guns/7EB5CD8E-F2E4-43F0-954C-A6357FCB8051-19751-000007570E8EE1A4_zps9af2c661.jpg.html)
So you're permanently-attaching a heavy, useless (with the exception of SBR) muzzle device to your AR simply because you "like the look" (your own words)?
I'll be the asshole to say it -- this is stupid.
WickedWillis
06-12-13, 18:28
It really does serve no purpose on a carbine or mid-length rifle. They run great on SBR's I am told though.
So you're permanently-attaching a heavy, useless (with the exception of SBR) muzzle device to your AR simply because you "like the look" (your own words)?
I'll be the asshole to say it -- this is stupid.
It really does serve no purpose on a carbine or mid-length rifle. They run great on SBR's I am told though.
I had one on my 10.5 for a spell and it does do a decent job of projecting the blast forward. However, I finally sold it and went the suppressor route. Putting one on a 14.5" is a tad mall-ninja for me.
So you're permanently-attaching a heavy, useless (with the exception of SBR) muzzle device to your AR simply because you "like the look" (your own words)?
I'll be the asshole to say it -- this is stupid.
Damn, don't hold back, tell him what you really think of it. lol
Rb is right though. I am with you dd, I really like the look, that said on a weapon like this(unless this is just another extra) stick with function over looks. If the SHTF you will be glad you did. Using a part for something the manufacturer does not recommend you use it for and permanently installing it is at very least not wise.
Damn, don't hold back, tell him what you really think of it. lol
If I wasn't going to say it, MarkM surely would have. :p
The truth is, I really don't give a shit what anybody does with their gun -- I find the "AR snob" thread a couple down quite humorous. OP is a cop, so one would hope that he'd know better (especially after being a member on this site for 2+ years), but hell, free country -- do whatever you want.
Still, doesn't make it any less stupid.
Damn, don't hold back, tell him what you really think of it. lol
Rb is right though. I am with you dd, I really like the look, that said on a weapon like this(unless this is just another extra) stick with function over looks. If the SHTF you will be glad you did. Using a part for something the manufacturer does not recommend you use it for and permanently installing it is at very least not wise.
So what if OP did this "for looks" Isn't that part of what makes building/owning an AR fun? Is ^Rb going to call out guys who paint their receivers and other components "for looks"
There is absolutely nothing on Noveske's website that says you cannot/should not use a KX3 on a longer barrel. In fact, it says right in the product description "The Noveske KX3 Flash Suppressor will work on any barrel length."
The fact that it is permanently installed really has no bearing whatsoever. Other flash hiders are permanently installed on barrels all the time to meet mandated minimum barrel lengths. Now if you said permanently attaching a KX3 increases the chances his gun will explode or something, ok...that's an issue :)
If OP ends up hating the setup, he changes it. Nothing wasted but his time and his money.
1.So what if OP did this "for looks" Isn't that part of what makes building/owning an AR fun? Is ^Rb going to call out guys who paint their receivers and other components "for looks"
2.There is absolutely nothing on Noveske's website that says you cannot/should not use a KX3 on a longer barrel. In fact, it says right in the product description "The Noveske KX3 Flash Suppressor will work on any barrel length."
3. The fact that it is permanently installed really has no bearing whatsoever. Other flash hiders are permanently installed on barrels all the time to meet mandated minimum barrel lengths. Now if you said permanently attaching a KX3 increases the chances his gun will explode or something, ok...that's an issue :)
If OP ends up hating the setup, he changes it. Nothing wasted but his time and his money.
1. No, because paint serves a purpose and does not effect function.
2.You are correct, it will work with any barrel, but was/is designed for sbr's. If you do a search on the forum you will find many instances where Noveske does not recommend it for barrels over 11.5". A carbine gas system is already hard enough on the gun, no need to add extra pressure/stress to the system, that will wear parts faster and eventually cause premature failures. All for looks? Nothing else?
3.Permanently installing it would mean he has to send it out to be cut and re-threaded if the OP wants a different set-up. He wouldn't be able to sell it to somebody who knows better without taking a loss. It's costly to change, he will end up with a shorter barrel, which means a shorter rail, time sending it away, added expense all the way around. All while receiving no added benefits other than "coolness"
I have no problem with the look, just would advise a different muzzle device, a Troy claymore brake would give the desired look and is designed for a longer barrel. "coolness + function = win"
just my opinion btw, not to be construed with fact
midSCarolina
06-13-13, 08:42
I saw a few statements earlier that said it may make it really hot after a few rounds....
it won't... all that hot gas will definitely clear the handguard and the FH won't heat up any more than the barrel or block.
There is absolutely no benefit to having it within the rail other than pure aesthetics... I ran a KX3 on a little 8" PSD and it did a good job of cutting down on some of that concussion. I don't think it is necessary on a longer rifle but they do have a unique look.
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