View Full Version : Ammo starting to get low.
Thors ~ Hammer
07-19-06, 20:58
My ammo is starting to get low, I heard that Winchester just signed a new contract with the military for 44 million 5.56 rds. Anyone know if this is true?
Anyone have a good lead on ammo, need to buy around 5K rds?
I'm low as well and I picked up 2K at the last show.
Someday this war is going end...
Thors ~ Hammer
07-19-06, 21:07
I'm low as well and I picked up 2K at the last show.
Someday this war is going end...
I think its time to call Dillion and get a new press. :D Anybody have a tumbler they want to sell?
You know, you bring up a very good point; it might be time I look at reloading my own.
You know, you bring up a very good point; it might be time I look at reloading my own.
Its been a long time since I reloaded ammo. You guys are on to something. I think its time the prices have gone thru the roof. I still have a single stage press, need to check and see if I have a .223 die.
Anybody know how to remove a mil crimped primer? I have 5k rds of once fired brass.
I have already started to look into buying a press. I have Yrac, Chris914, and Subzero lined up to teach me the ropes.
When I saw WCWB for $280 a case, I knew it was time to look for an alternative. Hell, even Wolff is getting expensive and I have never even considered shooting it before.
What really sucks is I need 2K of .45 within the next two weeks.
LukeMacGillie
07-20-06, 07:34
It might be an indicator of not much ammo, or it might just be that Pat taught a few classes in Indiana, but my dealer on the Southside of Indy has nothing but tracer. When I was last in there prior to heading to NOVA he was on the phone trying to get any 223, and not having any luck.
The quandry im in is do I shoot from my stash of SA, M193 Lot 2 and Q3131A, or look for some other weapon to shoot till the 556 gets reasonable again.
It might be an indicator of not much ammo, or it might just be that Pat taught a few classes in Indiana, but my dealer on the Southside of Indy has nothing but tracer. When I was last in there prior to heading to NOVA he was on the phone trying to get any 223, and not having any luck.
The quandry im in is do I shoot from my stash of SA, M193 Lot 2 and Q3131A, or look for some other weapon to shoot till the 556 gets reasonable again.
I hear ya. I've though about buying a 9mm AR because WWB is readily available and cheap.
My ammo is starting to get low, I heard that Winchester just signed a new contract with the military for 44 million 5.56 rds. Anyone know if this is true?
that is just great. do you have any more good news? it does not surprise me if it is true though.
i just picked up 5k rounds .223 win white box, which was a good size purchase to get in one store. if you can beleive this, i made a deal with the manager and paid $3.25 box including tax. do you have anymore....
i think that the shortage will only get worse in the short term and when you find it, get all you can. i have about 14k rounds in the locker now and am always looking for more.
SinnFéinM1911
07-20-06, 08:58
I had to buy 30K round of Lake City last week, and since I got it, the price went up almost 36%.
Friggn Crazy !!
I also talked ot a Winchester Rep and they said they are back ordered wil 07' on .223 / 5,56.
the way the prices are going with ammo, you could invest in ammo and have a better return on your investment than you would with stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.
except for gasoline.
SinnFéinM1911
07-20-06, 09:40
Oh..
Ammo went from $240 a case of MIL-SPEC 5.56 LC to $359 in less that 12 hours...
Good timing says me !
LukeMacGillie
07-20-06, 10:13
I hear ya. I've though about buying a 9mm AR because WWB is readily available and cheap.
Ive got 4 AR's, one really should be converted to 9mm.
And I just traded my M1A for a SOCOM16, Im cringing to even look at the price of 308.
If it gets really bad I got my Foxfire books and can make some Black Powder for my Mississippi Rifle and Colt Paterson:cool:
Ive got 4 AR's, one really should be converted to 9mm.
And I just traded my M1A for a SOCOM16, Im cringing to even look at the price of 308.
i just rec'd yesterday 500 rounds of of b.h. .308 175 gr. that was shipped before the 15% price increase went into effect.
prices are going up in a stright line...:(
Oh..
Ammo went from $240 a case of MIL-SPEC 5.56 LC to $359 in less that 12 hours...
Good timing says me !
:eek:
Oh my God.
I think it time to buy an AK.
Wolf doesn't smell so bad to be now.
Thors ~ Hammer
07-20-06, 10:44
:eek:
Oh my God.
I think it time to buy an AK.
Wolf doesn't smell so bad to be now.
Good luck finding AK ammo its even more scarce right now.
Its been a long time since I reloaded ammo. You guys are on to something. I think its time the prices have gone thru the roof. I still have a single stage press, need to check and see if I have a .223 die.
Anybody know how to remove a mil crimped primer? I have 5k rds of once fired brass.
You might want to send them to a processor for depriming, swaging and resizing. You have enough accumulated brass that there are palces that will do this for a fee. Check out ARFCOM Reloading board or NATIONALMATCH.US URLs for folks offering this service. RVOW used to but they may have gone out of business.
If you want to do it yourself a Lee Depriming die works fine, that's what I've used. Then you'll need to either swage (Dillon Primer pocket Swager) or ream (Hornady, Wilson) the pockets to accept a new primer. Do not try to seat new primers in pockets that still have the crimp.
If you shoot alot, a SS press aint going to cut it. Dillon 550 if you are ok with manual indexing, otherwise get a 650 which auto-indexes and also accepts a case feeder.
Dillon XL650 ;)
I paid $800 for 1k of RUAG Match in Canada (via the net) so I have some if I go up to visit buddies...
I gotta a few k in Fla of the Georgia Heat -- but I have more than 30k pieces of Brass and a load of both 77gr Nolser BTHP and 55gr to load up when I have some time.
Oh..
Ammo went from $240 a case of MIL-SPEC 5.56 LC to $359 in less that 12 hours...
Good timing says me !
$359 a case??? :eek:
Dear God, ammo is more expensive than ARs...
Since a few folks mentioned reloading, my buddy wants to unload his Dillon 650. It's set up for .45acp, but the 650 can be easily switched to load .223. Please PM me for details.
:eek:
Oh my God.
I think it time to buy an AK.
Wolf doesn't smell so bad to be now.
Don't count on finding any 7.62 or 5.45...it's just as bad as 5.56.
The only thing I saw worth a crap at the last show was 5.56 Wolf for $120 a case! I should have bought some but I picked up 2000K of GA for $400.
Don't count on finding any 7.62 or 5.45...it's just as bad as 5.56.
The only thing I saw worth a crap at the last show was 5.56 Wolf for $120 a case! I should have bought some but I picked up 2000K of GA for $400.
I think I'm going to be sick.
I think I'm going to be sick.
I'm seeing Wolf 7.62 go for $160-180 per case and that's if you pre-order it and wait for six months!
I'm seeing Wolf 7.62 go for $160-180 per case and that's if you pre-order it and wait for six months!
I just threw up.
What in the hell does the war and military orders have to do with Wolf 7.62x39 prices?
Maybe it's time to buy an old C&R k98. Bolt action and iron sights has to be cheaper on ammo.
Thors ~ Hammer
07-20-06, 14:58
I just threw up.
What in the hell does the war and military orders have to do with Wolf 7.62x39 prices?
Maybe it's time to buy an old C&R k98. Bolt action and iron sights has to be cheaper on ammo.
AFAIK there was a big fire at the Tula factory a couple months ago. This put everything from Tula on backorder and the war is sucking everything else dry.
LukeMacGillie
07-20-06, 15:54
I just threw up.
What in the hell does the war and military orders have to do with Wolf 7.62x39 prices?
Maybe it's time to buy an old C&R k98. Bolt action and iron sights has to be cheaper on ammo.
Well a whole bunch of yellow box wolf ended up in Colombia, so the US shooter is competing with the FARC for what does come stateside.
Then there is that pesky problem of us destroying most of the ammo on the ground in Asscrakistan and Iraq, then turning around and purchasing a whole bunch of it so that the armies of Iraq and Afganistan can have some bullets.
So even less is comming stateside,
On to the 556/308 problem. AKA the LC scandal of 2003, they cant supply DoD with everything they want, let alone DoS or any other .gov agency with a need for ammo.
Now im sure the Izzy's are not going to be filling any of Winchester's outstanding orders anytime soon.
That English Longbow that Dad made me is looking better and better, and its even Ben Franklin Approved for arming the Continental Army of the fledgling United States.:D
I was at the fun shop/range last week trying to figure out my XS sights that I regretably put on my G19 and ended up talking to one of the salesmen. It was at this point that I noticed that the case upon case upon case of Black Hills .223/5.56 ammo that they normally have were nowhere to be seen. So I asked and he said that several days earlier some feds showed up and bought everything, leaving only two cases 55 gr. FMJ and some miscellanous boxes of varmit loads. He said they won't be getting anymore in until possibly November and that BH wasn't real firm on that date. Needless to say, I walked out with a case. Should have walked out with both and when I went back for the other, it was already sold.
I didn't give all the "sky is falling" panic about ammo on AR15.com a lot of credence, but maybe I should have. I just might be making a call next week and ordering some more RG or going to Sportsman's Warehouse and picking up a case of Q3131 or Q3131A. The problem I'm going to have is that I'm going to be so busy stocking up on .223/5.56 that I can't stock up on 5.45.
BTW, I was also told that we should expect a significant increase on handgun ammo too.
Everything I've read is rising distribution costs due to fuel prices and the world market for metals is becoming quite competitive due to China's explosive growth. I don't see either of those abating anytime soon.
Rmplstlskn
07-20-06, 19:22
I just went to the range with my M4 today to test some handloads to find just the right powder weight, as well as sight in the re-mounted ACOG TA-11D with my surplus ammo.
With the COST of new surplus ammo now days, reloading is a great alternative, especially if you like the EXPENSIVE, heavy bullet ammo. However, I reload for a DIFFERENT REASON... ACCURACY!!!
My "sweet spot" reloads loaded with 75g and 77g bullets put a serious hurting on the relatively INACCURATE surplus ammo. It is amazing to see the groups jump together using handloads after a mag of surplus. And this is with a plain Colt M4 14.5" barrel with ACOG and bipod... It gets even more amazing as you move into the precision AR's...
As one who has always like science and engineering, I find reloading a very interesting hobby (although I could live without the brass prep...).
For blasting and plinking, Wolf or commercial reloads are still cheaper, unless you have a full-blown Dillon and have your brass prepped by a factory... but I personally get more enjoyment out of testing handloads for accuracy than I do just blasting away at stuff... unless its Tannerite. :)
I am just now getting into .308 reloads with some test loads in my FAL, but I have found my FAL much more difficult to work out handloads due to design limitations (no Free Float barrel, flexing scope mount, etc...) than on my AR. I may just stay with surplus on the FAL until it drys up...
Rmpl
I started reloading the first of the year .308 and .45 and it is a little easier on the wallet. I can also live without the brass prep and have been buying processed brass.
It looks like a set of .223 dies are in my near future as well.
My feeling is that the shortage of 5.56 from factories that supply Uncle Sam caught "civilian" manufacturers and importers short. That temporary shortage started a buying mania where we instantly snap up any reasonably priced ammo that hits the shelves.
I have a feeling that by the fall, importers like Wolf will have caught up, relieving the supply side problem and the buying mania will have subsided, relieving the demand side problem.
As far as the rising prices, that's simply the laws of supply and demand taking effect. The shortage is cause by suppliers being reluctant to bow to those pressures and raise their prices to the true market price. (There would be no shortage but also no surplus at that price).
While raw materials, particularly metals, are increasing in price, they are too low a percentage of the costs involved in making ammo to have a substantial impact.
I bought 20 lbs of pulled Win powder and 10K pills a few years ago. I have about 10K in prep'd brass also. Since I'm down to my last 10K in factory stuff I'll be using more reloads now.
I have no intention of paying insane ammo prices. When the war lets up the ammo will surplus again.
Ebb and Flow.
Submariner
07-21-06, 16:37
We reloaded close to 20K rounds prior to 2000. I started shooting them in classes in 2001, then added my oldest children to the mix. We finished them up earlier this month at Boone County. Out of all those rounds, I had one primer that fell out into the lower receiver when it fed. Well-made reloads can be viable. YMMV.
The brass was prepped with a Dillon swage that turns out to have been out of round. Two Colt bolts appear in Pat's Book of Horrors (and one of them made it into Dean Caputo's curriculum) with gas cuts from the rim of the circle made by the primer into the firing pin hole in the face of the bolt.
I have sent the bolts to Colt to see if they are still serviceable. Then they are going to Dillon so I can get a replacement part for the swage. Then the swage gets sold. I'll either buy a reamer or buy brass alreaded reamed, not swaged.
Rather than going the 9mm route, we bought a pair of dedicated .22LR M4 uppers by Rick Kuehl. They use a Ceiner conversion with the chamber adapter removed and a full chamber and no gas port. With 30 round mags, we can run every drill taught so far except speed reload.
Our training prior to this most recent class was primarly with these uppers. Skills improved greatly. In fact, I came across another Kuehl upper an the other EE, bought it, sold off some parts and ended up with another upper half the price of a new one. This will be a spare. The ones with which we train have Aimpoints on LaRue mounts, VLTOR stocks, RAS and VFG's just like the ones we shoot in class. A box of 550 Federal HV copper-plated 40 grain rounds is still $8.96 at ChinaMart.
So it's buy reasonably priced ammo like Radway Green, stockpile components and load as time permits, and shoot up a lot of .22LR to make permanent the skills we have learned to date.
I've been buying AE 55gr BT at Outdoor Marksman for $215 shipped per 1,000 rds. Best range ammo I could find for a decent price.
Here's a link.
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=23&products_id=41
John Chapman
07-22-06, 22:57
Georga Arms Canned Heat 55Gr 5.56mm in around $200 per 1000 I think. Great ammo for a reasonable price.....
http://www.georgia-arms.com/canned_heat.htm
Our students shoot many thousands of rounds of this stuff every week, with zero problems.
7.62x39mm is starting to break loose, but the days of $80.00 a case are gone.
Currently the average price is about $140-$150 per K. Real Russian 5.45x39mm 7N6 military ammo is now available. Buy it now, I don't know if any more will be released.
I actually bought an Arsenal Inc. SA-M5 (5.56mm AK) so I would have something to shoot in an AK. :D
I also bought a couple thousand rounds of the M193 Wolf made by Prvi Partizan in Serbia. It's '05 production and I haven't had any issues at all with it in the M5, although I haven't tried it in my 20" Colt A2, it functioned 100% in a buddy's registered 10.5" M16.
Decent surplus 7.62x51mm is running out too. With the UN doing a bang up job convincing countries to destroy arms and munitions instead of selling them on the surplus market, and the fact that most of NATO and other allied countries who were using 7.62 NATO rifles have long since converted (with the exception of Norway and Sweden) to 5.56mm, good surplus 7.62x51mm is getting scarce.
I refuse to buy ammuntion from a country that pisses in it's own drinking water, so that rules out Indian, Pakistani, or Columbian 7.62mm, but the South African that's out there was made at a different time, when they were fighting the Cubans and the ANC, and it's decent fodder.
Man, I really don't want to have to start reloading......
i called a few places to make a large purchase this week. some of the replies i got were...
call back after the iraq war is over.
call back after late march, 2007.
put your request in an email and they hung up the phone.:eek:
the supply situation is not good.
bigthicket
08-04-06, 15:00
I have been reloading for my .308 bolt guns, but i may have to get a set of 223 dies too. I can save big money over Blk. Hills Match, and my 175 gr. SMK load will shoot with it, no problems. I just hate to start single staging ammo for the AR's too.
SinnFéinM1911
08-04-06, 16:24
Its getting crazy, even to T&E, some companies are out until next year. I know of a guy in CT who has got some surplus stuff, EVERY thing you cna think of ! PM and Ill get you his info if you interested.
TigerStripe
08-04-06, 23:48
Rather than going the 9mm route, we bought a pair of dedicated .22LR M4 uppers by Rick Kuehl. They use a Ceiner conversion with the chamber adapter removed and a full chamber and no gas port. With 30 round mags, we can run every drill taught so far except speed reload.
Our training prior to this most recent class was primarly with these uppers. Skills improved greatly. In fact, I came across another Kuehl upper an the other EE, bought it, sold off some parts and ended up with another upper half the price of a new one. This will be a spare. The ones with which we train have Aimpoints on LaRue mounts, VLTOR stocks, RAS and VFG's just like the ones we shoot in class.
Sorry to hijack, but do the Kuehl uppers accept rails or do you use the cheap top and bottom rails to attach the VFG?
TIA,
TS
Submariner
08-05-06, 07:15
They are set up like a standard M4 with delta ring and round front hanguard caps so you can replace the M4 handguards with any rail system you would use for an M4.
Federal 40 gr. copper washed HV is still $8.96/550 rounds at ChinaMart.:D
Dave Berryhill
08-05-06, 07:55
Oh..
Ammo went from $240 a case of MIL-SPEC 5.56 LC to $359 in less that 12 hours...
Good timing says me !
That's because you cornered the market and drove the prices up! :D
TigerStripe
08-05-06, 20:34
They are set up like a standard M4 with delta ring and round front hanguard caps so you can replace the M4 handguards with any rail system you would use for an M4.
Federal 40 gr. copper washed HV is still $8.96/550 rounds at ChinaMart.:D
Thanks! I see a .22lr upper in my future. It would be a nice tactical woods squirrel gun too! :D
TS
Al U. 5811
08-13-06, 01:14
How strange was it to put down $300 for 2 cases of Wolf 55 gr. that were on the shelf at a local Gander Mtn. Panic maybe?
A "friend" gave me approx. 800 rds. of LC 62 gr. on Thurs. because of a QC issue and Lake City wouldn't take it back. (They did refund him, rather, the Company) I was advised to shoot it slow and be cautious of squibs. But what the hell, free ammo.
Thors ~ Hammer
08-13-06, 01:23
How strange was it to put down $300 for 2 cases of Wolf 55 gr. that were on the shelf at a local Gander Mtn. Panic maybe?
A "friend" gave me approx. 800 rds. of LC 62 gr. on Thurs. because of a QC issue and Lake City wouldn't take it back. (They did refund him, rather, the Company) I was advised to shoot it slow and be cautious of squibs. But what the hell, free ammo.
Not strange I would have jumped on it myself. The other ammo I would take it easy on if it has known problems. But WTH it was free right. :D
MiamiARFan
08-13-06, 08:16
I've made some recent purchases from AIM for 5.56 (radaway) and SA surplus .308 Their prices were reasonable, but increasing. They now have surplus, second quality Guat. It don't look pretty, but I hear it shoots well.
Buckshot_Jim
08-15-06, 17:10
Part # c33-20095 Super Swager 600
It works great, I deprime lots of LC ect...with it. Works perfectly.
Jim
John_Wayne777
08-16-06, 10:45
When I went to BW for the Bushmaster carbine operator's course, it was a spur of the moment decision. (My schedule suddenly changed enough to allow me to take the class...)
I had a hell of a time finding ammo. The only thing that saved me was Ammo Man got in a shipment of LC 5.56 and I ordered 3K the moment I saw he had some. From what I understand, he was cleaned out pretty quickly.
Right now I probably have 2500 rounds of 5.56 at home, with 1K of that being LC 5.56 that has never been opened. The rest is a mix of older LC ammo, PMC and AE.
Finding ammo for my .45 wasn't any easier. Hopefully this temporary bubble will burst soon so I can buy reasonably priced ammo again.
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