View Full Version : MR556 10.5 or SCAR CQC
I am in the process of adopting a new patrol rifle and have narrowed it down to 2 choices. An HK MR556 or a L.E. SCAR CQC (Semi-auto) A few things to note about this rifle. At this point I am leaning toward the SCAR.
-It will be shot supressed almost all the time with AAC Mini4
-It needs to be really light and compact for use around/from a Crown Vic.
-At this time (and the forseeable future) it will be fed any brass cased ammo our agency can get a hold of.
-I like piston guns, including Markm's renouned and constant recommendation of LWRC products. :p
PatrioticDisorder
05-18-13, 05:45
I love my SCAR 17s, literally the only knock on the SCAR platform is the rail/handguard could be longer... Not an issue in a CQC version, not to mention foldable buttstock, I think that makes it vastly superior for your use.
That is a big plus for me. Having that on the ready on a felony stop instead of a damn handgun is a good move for me. Minus a light and IR, I dont need much rail.
Littlelebowski
05-18-13, 06:04
SCAR.
Army Chief
05-18-13, 07:59
Polls: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=131186
Not that the SCAR CQC has really been available to this point, but I would (and do) consider it to be the most desireable member of the SCAR family. If you're going to look at a piston gun, it might as well be one designed for the system from the ground up, as opposed to yet another AR adaptation -- even a very good one, like the HK.
AC
Voodoo_Man
05-18-13, 09:29
SCAR ftw.
SCAR is much lighter and the stock can be folded.
Polls: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=131186
Not that the SCAR CQC has really been available to this point, but I would (and do) consider it to be the most desireable member of the SCAR family. If you're going to look at a piston gun, it might as well be one designed for the system from the ground up, as opposed to yet another AR adaptation -- even a very good one, like the HK.
AC
Well said AC.
-Jax
Haven't shot an HK MR556, but I'm really happy with my SCAR 16 SBR, both suppressed and unsuppressed.
Army Chief
05-18-13, 14:13
Haven't shot an HK MR556, but I'm really happy with my SCAR 16 SBR, both suppressed and unsuppressed.
Grossly OT: "Rhino" is a Super Hornet, no?
AC
MichaelVain
05-18-13, 14:33
I am in the process of adopting a new patrol rifle and have narrowed it down to 2 choices. An HK MR556 or a L.E. SCAR CQC (Semi-auto) A few things to note about this rifle. At this point I am leaning toward the SCAR.
-It will be shot supressed almost all the time with AAC Mini4
-It needs to be really light and compact for use around/from a Crown Vic.
-At this time (and the forseeable future) it will be fed any brass cased ammo our agency can get a hold of.
-I like piston guns, including Markm's renouned and constant recommendation of LWRC products. :p
I don't think the MR556 is meant to be a patrol rifle, full size or otherwise. Heavy profile match barrel cut down to 10.5" doesn't seem like the best use of the rifle.
jmo
vereceleritas
05-18-13, 16:27
Can you buy a real HK416 instead of a MR556 as a LEO or will HK only do agency sales on those? If an MR556 is the only option on that front, I'd vote for the SCAR.
Grossly OT: "Rhino" is a Super Hornet, no?
AC
Correct.
Army Chief
05-18-13, 18:03
Correct.
Props, my man. I realize it is really a hard work/payoff sort of thing, but I still hope you manage to go to the flight deck every day feeling pretty blessed.
AC
My thoughts are this.
1. What will it do for you, that a properly built DI gun will not do?
2. Are you shooting F/A?
3. Would it not be wiser to spend the additional money on a standard quality AR and use the additional money on magazines and other stuff?
4. Who will support the weapon and pay for additional parts. Will you be able to get them? If so, what are the additional costs?
I am in the process of adopting a new patrol rifle and have narrowed it down to 2 choices. An HK MR556 or a L.E. SCAR CQC (Semi-auto) A few things to note about this rifle. At this point I am leaning toward the SCAR.
-It will be shot supressed almost all the time with AAC Mini4
-It needs to be really light and compact for use around/from a Crown Vic.
-At this time (and the forseeable future) it will be fed any brass cased ammo our agency can get a hold of.
-I like piston guns, including Markm's renouned and constant recommendation of LWRC products. :p
My thoughts are this.
1. What will it do for you, that a properly built DI gun will not do?
2. Are you shooting F/A?
3. Would it not be wiser to spend the additional money on a standard quality AR and use the additional money on magazines and other stuff?
4. Who will support the weapon and pay for additional parts. Will you be able to get them? If so, what are the additional costs?
1.) I think with probably a 90% of the time running this system supressed I would see many benifits with a piston system. Especially on a 10 inch barrel gas to the face would be significantly reduced.
2.) Our Agency will issue Letter Heads for a full-auto purchase, but I do not see a benefit for it and I would want to keep this rifle if I ever left the Agency, so no.
3.) I have good DI guns, (Noveske and a 6920), and many mags.
4.) FNH always had amazing customer service when I was on the civilian side, and now that I'm a donut sucker, It has been even better. And while I do prefer to work on an AR, The SCAR is such an easy weapon to work on and maintain.
MountainRaven
05-19-13, 01:02
1.) I think with probably a 90% of the time running this system supressed I would see many benifits with a piston system. Especially on a 10 inch barrel gas to the face would be significantly reduced.
2.) Our Agency will issue Letter Heads for a full-auto purchase, but I do not see a benefit for it and I would want to keep this rifle if I ever left the Agency, so no.
3.) I have good DI guns, (Noveske and a 6920), and many mags.
4.) FNH always had amazing customer service when I was on the civilian side, and now that I'm a donut sucker, It has been even better. And while I do prefer to work on an AR, The SCAR is such an easy weapon to work on and maintain.
I think you just answered your own question.
;)
Magic_Salad0892
05-19-13, 05:26
I'm going to side with the others and say SCAR.
The light weight, and folding stock seems like a great advantage when working around cars and stuff. However, I will say that on the SCAR sling points seem to be an afterthought, and I'd recommend using BlueForce Gear UWLs to mount a sling with it.
Also, factory CQC barrels should be available this year.
Also, ambi controls. Gieselle makes a trigger for it. (Instead of getting stuck with HK trigger parts.) And there's aftermarket charging handles, and stock latches for it now.
I'd recommend it over a piston-AR.
We seem to have a real barn-burner on our hands here. Is anyone running the AAC Mini4 on anything shorter than a 14.5?
We seem to have a real barn-burner on our hands here. Is anyone running the AAC Mini4 on anything shorter than a 14.5?
Can't exactly help, but the AAC SDN6 has worked great on my SCAR 10.5" SBR.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/B3F2533E-3E6B-4EE2-BCC7-2A5EEF025525-2930-000000B57835B370.jpg
Obviously I wanted multi caliber use out of my suppressor but the SCAR 16 suppressed, in my limited range time thus far (@75 rds, just recieved the suppressor) was superior to my time using suppressed ARs. Less carbon buildup, no perceivable gas to the face being the primary ones - although suppressed ARs I've shot have worked well too and an adjustable gas block of some kind has made the gas issue less noticeable, but even so the SCAR seemed superior in my admittedly limited range time with it (work has kept me from the range for almost 3 weeks).
If I had the money and time I'd probably get a dedicated 5.56 suppressor and leave the SDN6 for the 17, but I don't see that happening soon. Obvious benefits being smaller form factor, lower weight, but I think you'll lose some suppression with a Mini, but that might be worth the trade off.
Its.....so beautiful! :cray:, I have a bug up the ass to get an SDN6 soon too, but this new generation of baffles has left me ....baffled :dance3:. How would you compare the sound/ muzzle blast of this .30 can to a dedicated say M42k can?
Its.....so beautiful! :cray:, I have a bug up the ass to get an SDN6 soon too, but this new generation of baffles has left me ....baffled :dance3:. How would you compare the sound/ muzzle blast of this .30 can to a dedicated say M42k can?
My friend has an SPR M4 that I have shot and observed others shoot many times, but I haven't had a chance to run the SCAR / SDN6 combo side by side yet.
From what I've read and my recollections of shooting his rifle (12.5 Noveske Switchblock upper AR), you don't lose much, if at all with the SDN6 in terms of suppression, only the weight / form factor really when comparing AACs 5.56 cans vs the SDN6 - aka the SDN6 is going to heavier and longer. But for my use, the multi caliber aspect made the choice easy as it goes on my 13" SCAR 17 as well... :D
Of course I see the desirability of having a very small weapon & suppressor combo, even if it won't be hearing safe technically you'll be cutting down dramatically on muzzle blast, etc. Hence the Mini4 type suppressors that I've been browsing for the past 30 minutes...
Thats really all I am looking for. I think too many people out there expect a choice suppressor to really hush the gun up, when IAR I think of most suppressors as a muzzle accessory that gets the shit-storm out of my face and allows me to maintain communications with my fellow officers. Have you had any expieriance with the Mini-7? Still less weight and much shorter than the M42k and provides me the multi-caliber benefits as well. I really wish I knew someone in the Austin area that would let me shoot theirs in exchange for some ammo.
PatrioticDisorder
05-20-13, 04:42
That Inforce is a nice touch, how do you like it? I've been thinking about giving them a try, everyone who uses one seems to like it... Nice simply controls.
On a side note, how many who voted for the MR556 have even held one, much less shot one? I'm guessing some people are votin MR556 simply because it's an HK and/or AR platform (albeit piston).
Sorry, no experience with the Mini 4 or 7 models yet.
I have held a MR556 16" and it was very front heavy.
The Inforce WML is nice, I bought it to get me a quality WML with Visible and IR illumination capabilities (I have weapon mounted NVD that I use on this 16).
Surefire does have offerings for them but the current ones are heavy and expensive (I used a RAID on night hog hunt, really nice but too large on my rifle), and their new models of x300/400 are "on the way", and we all know what that can mean...
It is easy to attach, lightweight, dual band white / IR, and is of sufficient output for indoor and residential outdoor work. Works well, fits right where I want it, and is inexpensive.
Sorry forth thread drift OP.
I don't mind the drift. Some of these larger SCAR charging handles look like they may have it out for my forearms though :blink: Why did you not car for the original one?
OEM CH wasn't bad, but I ordered the one you see (Stryker Enterprises EACH) and the Tango down version to work optic / scope mount issues as I used a TR24R in a Larue mount initially and with the QDs on the left, it was common to tear up your hand when using the OEM CH.
When I first looked at how big the EACH was on the weapon, I had the same thought. But then I hated the TD version as too rough and small. Once I got the EACH to the range I loved it - very tactile and easy to grab, not nearly as big as it seems (aka, doesnt snag or get in the way, etc). Like any RCH, you've got to stay off it, but it give much more positive control when you have to use it as well as being angled down away from optics / scope mounts.
Shot that SCAR again this weekend. Hate it. Bucks too much.
The words "get the HK", however, will never come out of my mouth.
Magic_Salad0892
05-20-13, 09:44
The words "get the HK", however, will never come out of my mouth.
Why? I thought you liked their pistols? Specifically Pappabear's HK45C.
Why? I thought you liked their pistols? Specifically Pappabear's HK45C.
The HK45 is the one HK gun I do like. Shoot... I'd carry one if it were priced reasonably.
Magic_Salad0892
05-20-13, 10:35
The HK45 is the one HK gun I do like. Shoot... I'd carry one if it were priced reasonably.
How come you don't like the others? Or the company?
How come you don't like the others? Or the company?
Shootability, Availability, Price. I think I'd like an MP5 if idiot bureacracy and tyranny didn't make that a near impossibility.
My opinion for a deparment gun get a well built di gun. In almost 10 years as an operator I can't really see a scenario that I would need a piston gun. Stick with a bcm 11.5 or if you want shorter run a centurion arms 10.5 built by Monty. I have ran both without any complaints. And you also have to look parts for a di gun you can find them all over the net. Goodluck finding them for a scar and much less for HK. And you also have to take in consideration what your chief will approve due to your department budget.
My opinion for a deparment gun get a well built di gun. In almost 10 years as an operator I can't really see a scenario that I would need a piston gun. Stick with a bcm 11.5 or if you want shorter run a centurion arms 10.5 built by Monty. I have ran both without any complaints. And you also have to look parts for a di gun you can find them all over the net. Goodluck finding them for a scar and much less for HK. And you also have to take in consideration what your chief will approve due to your department budget.
Certainly don't disagree that a DI AR wouldn't work here, but there are plenty of SCAR parts available for people willing to look for them. I'm still missing some things but am confident I'll have them soon.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/B324AAA5-7239-4A88-BEFC-9328153F9BCE-5574-00000172EFD4D622.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/BDD1B2F2-F4E9-48B3-9E4A-0AC3F8AF3964-5574-00000172E7595DF4.jpg
Well now seening that there are parts available for the Scar I recant my previous statement.
vereceleritas
05-20-13, 12:55
Dealers and vendors don't seem to carry SCAR parts for whatever reason but if you call FNH USA directly they'll sell you just about anything short of an upper receiver. My buddy ordered a spare bolt and piston this way.
Well now seening that there are parts available for the Scar I recant my previous statement.
Again, not gonna say they are easy / plentiful like DI AR parts, but they aren't as scarce as people sometimes make them out to be.
In fact just today a found another couple 17 specific parts I wanted and hadn't been able to find.
Dealers and vendors don't seem to carry SCAR parts for whatever reason but if you call FNH USA directly they'll sell you just about anything short of an upper receiver. My buddy ordered a spare bolt and piston this way.
True from what I've heard, although thus far I've been able to find my stuff at a couple of dealers, Midwest Gun Works to be the best stocked, although HDD can be better for small springs, since MGW seems to charge a minimum of $5 per piece, and HDD charges less for some of the micro roll pins, springs, and other assorted stuff.
I probably won't need 95% of the parts I have, but seeing as its an imported, highly proprietary weapon, I don't feel comfortable not having direct access to all the little peices should something random break or go flying across the room during a cleaning / maintenance effort. Obviously with a DI AR a LGS will often have a buffer or spring or detent should that happen.
I really have no SA on HK rifle parts, other than I get all of my pistol parts from HKparts. They aren't cheap either, and I imagine MR556 parts are no different.
Just kind of the game you have to play when getting into one of these weapon systems. In for a penny, in for a pound kind of thing.
(for the record, I have zero affiliation to any of the vendors mentioned and provided them only should other members want to look for FN SCAR parts).
That Inforce is a nice touch, how do you like it? I've been thinking about giving them a try, everyone who uses one seems to like it... Nice simply controls.
On a side note, how many who voted for the MR556 have even held one, much less shot one? I'm guessing some people are votin MR556 simply because it's an HK and/or AR platform (albeit piston).
unrelated to main topic but since I have that light I will say that it's by far the most ergonomic and easy to use light I've come across. I like it a lot.
Correct, those things are terrible, be sure to send me any you come across along with any LWRCs so we can keep this trash of the streets.:laugh:
Shot that SCAR again this weekend. Hate it. Bucks too much.
The words "get the HK", however, will never come out of my mouth.
i'm surprised there's so many votes for the scar cqc.
is the scar cqc being fielded?
the hk416 in 10.5" is being fielded by top special operations dudes. the internet says it's "the gun that killed osama bin laden."
i'm surprised there's so many votes for the scar cqc.
is the scar cqc being fielded?
the hk416 in 10.5" is being fielded by top special operations dudes. the internet says it's "the gun that killed osama bin laden."
I think most would agree that there is a big difference between the 416 and the MR556.
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I think most would agree that there is a big difference between the 416 and the MR556.
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are these things that would be fixed by getting an mr556?
Magic_Salad0892
05-21-13, 04:36
i'm surprised there's so many votes for the scar cqc.
is the scar cqc being fielded?
the hk416 in 10.5" is being fielded by top special operations dudes. the internet says it's "the gun that killed osama bin laden."
In my opinion, there's nothing that a 416 can do, that a SCAR can't do, and maybe do better.
I'd actually rather have a DI 11.5'' gun than all of the above though.
i'm surprised there's so many votes for the scar cqc.
is the scar cqc being fielded?
the hk416 in 10.5" is being fielded by top special operations dudes. the internet says it's "the gun that killed osama bin laden."
Yes, the HK416 is being used in the US SOF circles.
Yes, the MR556 looks a lot like a 416, but it's not the same animal. Do some research and you'll figure that out.
Just because some high speed low drag guys use a particular piece of gear doesn't mean that another piece of gear might be more effective for someone else, maybe doing a different job, with different constraints, etc, etc.
If this was HK416 vs SCAR 16 CQC you might get different results.
The fact is its largely a personal preference thing. I don't think anyone here would feel under gunned with a HK416, SCAR 16, MR556, or multitude of AR SBRs suggested.
Hunter Rose
05-21-13, 10:40
I think most would agree that there is a big difference between the 416 and the MR556.
Differences are mainly cosmetic, not functional. Non-chrome lined bore, heavy barrel profile, semi-auto carrier w/ tab on barrel extension to prevent use of full-auto carrier are the only real differences. Since the OP is looking at a semi-auto only carbine, the only differences that really matter are the heavier profile unlined barrel. The weight issue is easily addressed with a cheap barrel re-profile.
Functionally. there's not really any difference between a 416 in semi and an MR556 in semi. 416 will have longer barrel life most likely due to chrome, but unlined HK barrels like HK G3/33 or HK91/93 aren't really slouches in the barrel life department. Reliability should be the same and the MR may have a slight edge in accuracy (it would be small though, and likely not even noticed).
That being said, if you're looking for an SBR variant, the SCAR would be cheaper and use factory short barrels, whereas you would have to have someone cut/shorten the HK barrel (although plenty have done this). You'll be well served with either. Price/preference is the real issue as they're both reliable rifles.
You've got a pretty good amount of rounds through your Ruger piston. Is there anything about that particular gun you really like and dislike? That might help you decide.
Maybe get an AAC muzzle device installed on your Ruger and run it suppressed for awhile. See if your basic expectations are met and then go from there.
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Differences are mainly cosmetic, not functional. Non-chrome lined bore, heavy barrel profile, semi-auto carrier w/ tab on barrel extension to prevent use of full-auto carrier are the only real differences. Since the OP is looking at a semi-auto only carbine, the only differences that really matter are the heavier profile unlined barrel. The weight issue is easily addressed with a cheap barrel re-profile.
i will admit that i really dislike hk for continually doing things like this to the civilian market. does the 416 barrel fit in in the upper of the mr556. i would speculate if the platform ever truly took off there would be aftermarket manufacturers of barrels. would that be incorrect to assume?
Functionally. there's not really any difference between a 416 in semi and an MR556 in semi. 416 will have longer barrel life most likely due to chrome, but unlined HK barrels like HK G3/33 or HK91/93 aren't really slouches in the barrel life department. Reliability should be the same and the MR may have a slight edge in accuracy (it would be small though, and likely not even noticed).
That being said, if you're looking for an SBR variant, the SCAR would be cheaper and use factory short barrels, whereas you would have to have someone cut/shorten the HK barrel (although plenty have done this). You'll be well served with either. Price/preference is the real issue as they're both reliable rifles.
it would seem that fn got it right with their support of the civilian market and i think the bounty of that support shows in how much aftermarket support they've gotten with parts developed for their platform.
i just wish the handguard were slimmer, but this is totally personal preferance and it's also not a deal breaker in my opnion.
MikeCLeonard
05-21-13, 18:31
I think most would agree that there is a big difference between the 416 and the MR556.
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I would say a very small difference.
Full-Auto Carrier: He's not looking for that capability
Barrel Profile: He'd be cutting it to 10.5" anyway, and could lighten it if he wants.
Lined Barrel: This is the only functional difference I see...and I'd bet the Hk barrel outlasts any high-end SS barrel, and most factory chrome-lined barrels out there.
What's left?
Ya, she is a fat bitch though. A little to heavy for riding in the front seat.
You've got a pretty good amount of rounds through your Ruger piston. Is there anything about that particular gun you really like and dislike? That might help you decide.
Maybe get an AAC muzzle device installed on your Ruger and run it suppressed for awhile. See if your basic expectations are met and then go from there.
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Ya, she is a fat bitch though. A little too heavy for riding in the front seat.
If the weight of the Ruger is a main complaint, you probably won't like the HK. Naked, the MR556 has a good pound on the Ruger.
Barrett makes a simple and solid piston gun that's got a suppressed setting on the gas system. Weight is reasonable and they do offer it in a factory SBR configuration. Might be a nice option if you are not decided yet.
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http://www.barrett.net/firearms/rec7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rce1l4CM9Dk
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