View Full Version : Need Some Help "Unsticking" Loctite
Disclaimer: Despite my current frustration, Daniel Defense is a great company with great customer service and products. Love them.
The problem: Got a new DDM4. To make it CA "compliant" a "bullet button" must be "installed" for legal shipment onto CA. Well the compliance dept. over at DD has apparently decided that "installed" means to Loctite the holy crap out of it. I prefer to use the Raddlock type of bb, and I frequently travel out of state with my guns, where I switch to a standard mag release whenever it is lawful to do so. I have made two calls and an email to confirm that blue Loctite is exactly what was used.
So far, I have been unable to break the little threaded collar inside the bulletin button loose. I have tried a mini torch to burn off and or warm up the Loctite. When several attempts at that failed, I tried soaking the area with MEK for an hour or so. Kept it wet by applying it with a Q-tip and rewetting it every few minutes. It still wouldn't budge.
Any ideas from the huge pool of knowledge and experience here?
Try applying some heat with a heat gun.
Like SW said.. You should see a little puff of smoke when the Locktite gives up. GH
To release blue Loctite (242) it has to be heated to at least 400*F. It is best to do it with a heat gun while applying torque to the fastener.
Even though the Loctite will break down when it gets hot enough the powdery residue can still interfere with releasing the threads unless it is kept hot for the first few turns.
Robb Jensen
05-19-13, 12:50
Yep 1 to 1.5 min on high setting with a heat gun will usually break down any Loctite. On gas blocks where they've been bedded with green or red Loctite I use a MAP gas torch for 15-20 seconds. If 15-20 still doesn't work try 10-15 sec more and try again.
To release blue Loctite (242) it has to be heated to at least 400*F. It is best to do it with a heat gun while applying torque to the fastener.
Even though the Loctite will break down when it gets hot enough the powdery residue can still interfere with releasing the threads unless it is kept hot for the first few turns.
This and Rob's Suggestions are what worked for me in the past. The MAP torch will work quickly. Just be careful.
To release blue Loctite (242) it has to be heated to at least 400*F.
Blue does not need to be heated up to release, that's the whole point of it. I use it on several of my guns and have never needed to heat it to release.
"Fill spaces between threads to produce a secure one-piece assembly that will not loosen under stress, but can be removed with hand tools"
http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/blue-threadlockers-medium-strength-13231.htm
as opposed to the red which reads
"■Disassembling requires localized heat (>550°F/260°C), hand tools, and disassembly while hot"
http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/red-threadlockers-permanent-high-strength-12892.htm
If it's 242 It's operating temp. range is -65*f/300*f
To break the bond you only need to provide 110 in/lbs at room temperature.
There is a high temp medium strength blue that requires 170 in/lbs...
There's also a blue that requires 230 in/lbs...
http://henkelontheroad.henkelna.com/LT-6540_AN_RemovableReliable_SS_v11_Final_Links.pdf
I won't argue that blue doesn't need heat to release under normal circumstances but heat will make it easier to remove fasteners bedded with it. Especially if the blue is on the shoulder of a fastener with a small socket head compared to the thread diameter. GH
On small parts I apply heat with the tip of a soldering iron.
The resolution to this situation:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1705413#post1705413
skijunkie55
07-25-13, 14:20
Always nice to see companies go above and beyond the norm in today's culture. I've had great experiences with DD, B5, and BCM to date and will continue to support them because of it... Although it might be time for me to give Noveske and KAC a chance :D
Gatorshark
07-25-13, 17:01
can't open link. Is it restricted or bad link?
Because he posted it in the feedback area and that is not what the feedback area is for.
can't open link. Is it restricted or bad link?
Because he posted it in the feedback area and that is not what the feedback area is for.
Sorry. Please forgive my ignorance. Where should it have gone, and is it deleted or moved?
Gatorshark
07-25-13, 20:00
Sorry. Please forgive my ignorance. Where should it have gone, and is it deleted or moved?
If you found a solution to the issue you originally posted about, post it here.
I ran into this same issue with rail sections on my VTAC Alpha. Little buggers are on there good.
If you found a solution to the issue you originally posted about, post it here.
Someone I know likes to talk. :D
I have lowers from LMT and uppers from BCM and DD, and I've been very happy with all of the above, but I have never bought a "complete" rifle. This is mainly due to availability here, and the fact that I have not been able to find a rifle configured the way I wanted it without having to make a whole bunch of expensive changes.
Daniel Defense offers the "Build Your Own DDM4" option and it seemed like a good way to go. Several other companies also offer great rifles, but they won't allow me the degree of customization that I desire. Back in January I put in my request for a build code for DD and a few months later it came. I went on the website, entered my custom specs, and 3 days later my first complete rifle shipped. All was good with the world.
As a side note for those who are curious, my specs are as follows: 16" lw, low profile gas block, mid-length with a 10" "lite" rail. I ordered a SSA trigger and I put on my own SOPMOD stock and a Falcon Industries Ergo grip. LMT as my first lower spoiled me...
My rifle showed up and I was in awe as I removed it from the packing. It felt solid, but still light as a feather. I brought it home and started attaching all my furniture; Aimpoint, MBUS, fore end QD sling attachment point, and light... This is where the trouble started. To make the rifle CA legal, they have to install a "Bullet Button". This makes it so your magazine is not detachable without a "tool" and therefore the rifle is NOT an "assault weapon" under CA law. Basically you have to stick the tip of a bullet or a stick or something in the hole to drop your mag. I know. Its ridiculous, but its better than not being able to own an AR at all. I run a different type of bullet button called a "Raddlock" that allows me to turn my bullet button into a standard mag release with a simple turn of a screw driver when I leave the state and it is legal to do so. As I began to try to remove the factory installed BB, I soon discovered I had a problem. It was stuck. BBs are attached with a little threaded aluminum collar that screws onto the threaded post of the mag catch. A little aluminum tool with two tines is supplied for removal of the BB. I called the factory to find out exactly what they used to "glue" it with and they confirmed it was blue loctite. I went and bought a mini torch. No dice. Tried MEK. Wouldn't budge. I started a thread asking for advice here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=131344
I called DD again and emailed. The guy that answered the phone actually walked over to the building bench and asked the guy who assembled my rifle exactly what he used while I was on the phone with him. "Blue Loctite", was the answer. My flimsy aluminum tool was not going to work, so I was planning on making my own tool with a flat head screw driver and a grinding wheel. But then I got to thinking that this might simply strip the aluminum collar instead of stripping the aluminum tool and I didn't want to be mucking around and marring a brand new rifle. I called DD yet again and asked them to pay for gun smithing or pay for shipping back and forth to them to fix the problem. After a few days with no response I called again. The person who handles that stuff was on vacation for a week. Still no call back a week later. In my frustration and impatience I just took the rifle to a LGS where a friend works and does some smithing. I did not have the "OK" from DD for this. The shop has a proper jig and a drill press and he simply drilled out the post on the back of the mag catch. He gave me a new mag catch and a bill for $40, and I proceeded to install the new BB. All done. Fixed.
Here is where it gets interesting. I was a little frustrated and angry at the lack of response and lack of customer service from DD. This is not typical of my past experience with them. In my imaginative mind I envisioned them hanging up and muttering about stupid Californians, as so many people from other not-yet-so-restricted states are wont to do. Out of spite, more than anything else, I sent the bill for the smithing and a detailed letter voicing my complaints and the time line to DD. I expected my letter to be laughed at and tossed in the round file. What company on earth is going to reimburse someone for work done by an unknown outside third party that they didn't even authorize? It was more an attempt to vent and voice my irritation. In my letter I included my contact info. I dropped it in the mail on the way to the range and immediately felt better and forgot about it. The rifle performed flawlessly and shoots like a dream. I sighted in at 25 yards and was printing little clover leafs. Shots on steel at 125, 220 and 411 yards came back with a pleasant "thunk" every time. I like all my ARs, but I really LOOOOOOOVE this rifle. Don't really know how to put it in words, it just feels SO right.
Three days past and my phone starts ringing. The display shows "Daniel Defense". (I have them programmed in.) "What in the world do they want?", I wondered to myself as I answered. It was the customer service lady. (Sorry. I don't remember her name, but she's very nice and polite.) She told me that somehow she had the wrong phone number and had been trying to figure out how to reach me for two weeks. She was going to send a letter to the LGS that my gun shipped to and ask them for help contacting me, when my complaint letter showed up with the contact info in it. She was extremely apologetic about the whole incident, thanked me for my patience, and informed me that with my permission they wanted to credit the gun smithing charges back to my credit card. I was dumbstruck. I said, "But you didn't authorize that. I just did it out of impatience. You guys aren't liable for that." She said that they were "re-evaluating" their BB building protocol and making necessary adjustments, and thanked me for my customer feedback. Then she asked for a shipping address so that she could send a free DD hat and t-shirt to me, for the "inconvenience" that I had experienced. I gladly gave her one.
In the past, I have always been pleased with the customer service at DD. They still answer their phone when so many other companies, don't or won't. I sort of figured that this BB issue was the price I had to pay for living in a state with crappy gun laws. It should be noted that this Bullet Button is NOT made or designed by DD, and they install it as a service and courtesy to their customers in the "not-so-free" states. Daniel Defense has demonstrated to me AGAIN that the customer matters to them. They have again demonstrated why they deserve the reputation that they have earned over the years. And they have demonstrated again why everyone should feel good about doing business with them.
Thank you Daniel Defense for taking excellent care of your customer. Thank you for making such excellent rifles and parts. Your reward for your efforts will be my continued business, and my recommendation to anyone who will listen that they should do business with you.
Nobody can be perfect all the time. I firmly believe that in dealing with problems or disagreements is where you truly learn about a person's or business's true character. Daniel Defense has clearly demonstrated their character here. I ask everyone to shop accordingly.
Someone I know likes to talk. :D
Thank you for posting my other thread here for me. I though it was lost. Much appreciated.
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