View Full Version : Best bang for the buck trigger?
I've got almost everything together for a budget SPRish build and I'm wondering what is the best bang for the buck trigger nowadays. I used an RRA NM trigger in a previous build, which I was happy with, but they look like they've gone up in price and maybe aren't the best deal on the block anymore?
I'd love to use a Geissele but that's not really a budget-friendly option. So, what's out there?
RRA is crap. You answered your own question- it's the Geissele trigger. If you think you can't afford it, then get an ALG Defense trigger and then use it until you save the money. It will set you back a whopping 45.00 and it's one of the best out of package triggers around.
FWIW- I was able to shoot my Noveske 16" Recon upper with a Leupold scope and match ammo consistently around 1.5 MOA with a stock GI trigger. More often than not, it's the indian not the arrow.
I agree with IraqGunz on ALG defense. I wanted USGI reliability and went with the ALG ACT in both my lowers. Thoroughly impressed and VERY consistent.
First, thanks for the move. It's late, I'm in the middle of thrashing on stuff for work, and didn't realize until after I posted that I put it in Technical instead of General.
But, I don't know that the RRA is crap. I mean, I shot the best group of my life with it, and that gun shoots sub-MOA on a regular basis with PRVI 75gr ammo. Part of that has to be the trigger, right?
I've seen the ALGs, but couldn't I get something similar to that by hitting the hammer and disconnector with some polishing compound and a Q-tip? Or tossing them in the case tumbler?
So you're saying it's $45 or $230? No middle ground? Nothing worth it's salt in the $100-$140 range?
EDIT: What about the ALG ACT (the $65 one, not the $45 QMS)
http://www.botachtactical.com/geg2s2sttr.html
The Geissele seems to be the middle ground. Never tried it though,but it is a geissele.
I am sure how good that company is, nor did I check if it was in stock. It was just the first link I found.
polymorpheous
05-24-13, 03:09
Dude, use the search function.
Every single question you've asked in this thread has been discussed within the last year.
The Geissele G2S is the best bang for your buck. It's basically a much cheaper (in price) SSA... Or rather, it's priced just about what a SSA used to be priced at before prices went up across the board.
It's much nicer than the LMT 2 stage trigger and beats every gi trigger by miles.
I just put an ALG ACT in the carbine I'm building. It feels good. $65.
Dude, use the search function.
Every single question you've asked in this thread has been discussed within the last year.
Whoa, I totally should have thought of that!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/guttedhatch/Search_zps5133ed7f.jpg
I have searched and read. And after doing that, I asked if there was anything I was missing. And, as this is the first I've heard or read of the G2S, apparently there was.
The Geissele G2S is the best bang for your buck. It's basically a much cheaper (in price) SSA... Or rather, it's priced just about what a SSA used to be priced at before prices went up across the board.
It's much nicer than the LMT 2 stage trigger and beats every gi trigger by miles.
What makes it less expensive than the SSA? (Other than the price, of course. LOL)
For info on the G2S go to the Geissele website as it will explain everything about their triggers in detail. Check ALG Defense for the ACT and QMS.
The RRA match trigger will not hold up to hard use. They seem to give up in 3,000 to 5,000 rounds.
When I say something is crap, it's not because I hate the product. It's because RRA match triggers have been known to shit the bed in under 1000 rounds. I had someone contact me about a trigger issue. I asked him how many rounds and what kind of trigger. He said "RRA match" and I knew already because it was displaying the same characteristics of the others.
Shooting great with trigger xxx means nothing if the thing fails when you need it.
The Geissele triggers (SSA/SSA-E) and the G2S are the way to go. If you aren't going to do that then I would stick with a reliable GI trigger like the ALG.
As I stated earlier- more often than not, it's the indian not the arrow.
First, thanks for the move. It's late, I'm in the middle of thrashing on stuff for work, and didn't realize until after I posted that I put it in Technical instead of General.
But, I don't know that the RRA is crap. I mean, I shot the best group of my life with it, and that gun shoots sub-MOA on a regular basis with PRVI 75gr ammo. Part of that has to be the trigger, right?
I've seen the ALGs, but couldn't I get something similar to that by hitting the hammer and disconnector with some polishing compound and a Q-tip? Or tossing them in the case tumbler?
So you're saying it's $45 or $230? No middle ground? Nothing worth it's salt in the $100-$140 range?
EDIT: What about the ALG ACT (the $65 one, not the $45 QMS)
For info on the G2S go to the Geissele website as it will explain everything about their triggers in detail. Check ALG Defense for the ACT and QMS.
The RRA match trigger will not hold up to hard use. They seem to give up in 3,000 to 5,000 rounds.
What fails in the RRA? Springs, or do the contact surfaces grind down or something? I currently only have 800 or so rounds down the barrel, but I've got probably another 200-300 trigger-pulls dry firing it.
EDIT TO ADD: IG - Now you've got me worried about about THAT gun. What are the characteristics of the trigger failing?
polymorpheous
05-24-13, 04:24
Shitty heat treating would be my guess.
The engagement surfaces seem to wear causing doubles.
Also, the orange search button will yield you far better results.
It uses google to search the site.
Works nearly every time for me.
A well-broken-in GI trigger can be mighty good.
Listen to IG.
I have an ALG QMS, and I like it. Best GI style trigger I've felt. I didn't purchase the ACT because I really don't buy into fancy trigger coatings.
However I'm considering the G2S, and swapping the QMS into my M&P 15-22.
First, thanks for the move. It's late, I'm in the middle of thrashing on stuff for work, and didn't realize until after I posted that I put it in Technical instead of General.
But, I don't know that the RRA is crap. I mean, I shot the best group of my life with it, and that gun shoots sub-MOA on a regular basis with PRVI 75gr ammo. Part of that has to be the trigger, right?
yeah? well my fastest cross-country trip was in a 10 year old Chevy van with no air conditioning. by your reasoning that means that's one of the fastest cars made, right?
RRA triggers are considered crap because they are a crap shoot just how long they'll last. in service rifle competitions they were one of the first "precision" two-stage triggers available. these guns were required to have a min weight of 4.5lbs combined.
my barrel was a Douglas 1/8 stainless that began to show signs of needing to be replaced around 1800 -2500 rds and it was not uncommon for one of these to last longer than the RRA trigger.
you'd be better off with an ALG...
A well-broken-in GI trigger can be mighty good.
This. Couldn't agree more.
TurretGunner
05-24-13, 08:46
For info on the G2S go to the Geissele website as it will explain everything about their triggers in detail. Check ALG Defense for the ACT and QMS.
The RRA match trigger will not hold up to hard use. They seem to give up in 3,000 to 5,000 rounds.
ALG is Geissele.... Same company same people, same address , except owned by Bill's "wife".
Makes sense if they want HubZone and 8A gov contracts.... Woman owned small business non compete contracts.
yeah? well my fastest cross-country trip was in a 10 year old Chevy van with no air conditioning. by your reasoning that means that's one of the fastest cars made, right?
RRA triggers are considered crap because they are a crap shoot just how long they'll last. in service rifle competitions they were one of the first "precision" two-stage triggers available. these guns were required to have a min weight of 4.5lbs combined.
my barrel was a Douglas 1/8 stainless that began to show signs of needing to be replaced around 1800 -2500 rds and it was not uncommon for one of these to last longer than the RRA trigger.
you'd be better off with an ALG...
I misunderstood his track with his "RRA sucks" sentiment.
Is the NiB coating really the only difference between the QMS and ACT?
I misunderstood his track with his "RRA sucks" sentiment.
Is the NiB coating really the only difference between the QMS and ACT?
Watch this video... Choosing the Right Trigger for You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhc)
33 minutes?! I know what I'm doing on my lunch break, huh? LOL
Thanks.
Geissele gave every paticipant in Cola Warrior an SSE this year, so I am an outlier in the "bang for the buck category"
I will say that I have tried the RRA and a couple of others and have stuck with the standard GI until now. I'm not a believer in buying a slightly better but cheaper alternative to the basic, if the trigger that came with your rifle works don't upgrade it until you can afford the best.
ALG ACT combined with JP Enterprises Reduced Springs Kit. Best fire control group for $75.
ALG ACT combined with JP Enterprises Reduced Springs Kit. Best fire control group for $75.
Would not put JP reduced power springs on a fighting rifle. Many reports of light strikes without much time cycling the spring. Have used two in past with the same results.
-Jax
But it works great for me. Shot couple thousands rounds and mag dumps, no problem.. not even one.
Agree its a mistake to put a JP or any reduced power hammer spring in a fighting rifle, unless the hammer is specifically designed, and tested, with a weaker spring. However many have had success with a JP reduced power trigger spring, which should reduce pull weight some, but not as much as replacing both springs. Does not affect firing pin velocity/energy at all and trigger return function should be fine, as JP rifles use that spring with no reported reliability issues. JP triggers are very similar to mil spec, other than altered nose geometry, and adjustment screws, along with through hardening. Best to test it before assigning carbine to self defense role.
Mark
ScatmanCrothers
05-24-13, 13:47
I still don't understand the draw of the ACT. QMS is cheaper, has the exact same performance, and doesn't run into issues with selectors. I'm sure it's easier to clean, but... :sarcastic:
RRA is crap. You answered your own question- it's the Geissele trigger. If you think you can't afford it, then get an ALG Defense trigger and then use it until you save the money. It will set you back a whopping 45.00 and it's one of the best out of package triggers around.
FWIW- I was able to shoot my Noveske 16" Recon upper with a Leupold scope and match ammo consistently around 1.5 MOA with a stock GI trigger. More often than not, it's the indian not the arrow.
I've never had any spectacular experiences with RRA triggers.
Iraqgunz has said it best
Shitty heat treating would be my guess.
The engagement surfaces seem to wear causing doubles.
Also, the orange search button will yield you far better results.
It uses google to search the site.
Works nearly every time for me.
I, ve just started to encounter this issue. Had my first double 2 weeks ago. Instalked my first giss last nite.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
I, ve just started to encounter this issue. Had my first double 2 weeks ago. Instalked my first giss last nite.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Wow you're quick to replace that stuff!
I woulda procrastinated a little bit more than immediately after i go the double lol
Wow you're quick to replace that stuff!
I woulda procrastinated a little bit more than immediately after i go the double lol
People have been arrested for possession of an unregistered machine gun because of parts that were otherwise legal but for a malfunction.
Breacher 217
05-24-13, 17:26
Keep your eyes peeled for a KAC 2 stage take out. I've seen several over the last few months for $120ish.
TurretGunner
05-24-13, 17:43
People have been arrested for possession of an unregistered machine gun because of parts that were otherwise legal but for a malfunction.
Dude got 30 months in fed prison for shooting a borrowed rifle from a friend and a LEO saw it go auto at the range.
Cops couldnt reproduce the auto in the lab so they used shitty ammo with sensitive primers for get it to double again, and wam.... Fed felony and 2 years in jail.
Aint Freedom grand.
After watching that video, I really want an SD-E. Thanks a lot. LOL
Dude got 30 months in fed prison for shooting a borrowed rifle from a friend and a LEO saw it go auto at the range.
Cops couldnt reproduce the auto in the lab so they used shitty ammo with sensitive primers for get it to double again, and wam.... Fed felony and 2 years in jail.
Aint Freedom grand.
It was actually worse than that... The owner got the jail time, not the guy who actually fired auto because of crappy ammo.
Obscenejesster
05-24-13, 18:56
One of the biggest surprises I've had yet when it comes to building AR's is the ALG QMS. I picked up one for $45 shipped and I wasn't expecting much. To my surprise it was without a doubt the best trigger I've ever pulled that cost less than $100. I've had multiple people ask me what kind of trigger was in a rifle of mine after shooting it. After I told them it was a $45 trigger they pretty much said "Take My Money"!!
FloridaWoodsman
05-24-13, 20:36
I had to make the trigger decision some time ago after I put together my first AR and discovered that the scratchy, heavy, Daniel Defense trigger just wasn't going to cut it for hunting, even after some polishing and spring changes. I was wanting the best bang for the buck as well. After reading through many forum discussions, what I saw repeatedly from Geissele purchasers was the comment that they wished they had just bought it first, rather than going through one or more intermediary models. I took the plunge and made the investment. It is all I wished for, except of course, in the price category.
If you are referring to the assclown in Wisconsin, that isn't even remotely accurate about what happened.
Dude got 30 months in fed prison for shooting a borrowed rifle from a friend and a LEO saw it go auto at the range.
Cops couldnt reproduce the auto in the lab so they used shitty ammo with sensitive primers for get it to double again, and wam.... Fed felony and 2 years in jail.
Aint Freedom grand.
polymorpheous
05-24-13, 22:52
Wait a sec.
What?
When was this? Link?
Wait a sec.
What?
When was this? Link?
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29561634.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Olofson
Friend of yours? :p
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Wait a sec.
What?
When was this? Link?
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=192:olofsons-troubles&catid=19:the-knox-update&Itemid=144
polymorpheous
05-24-13, 23:05
Wow.
According to the links this had nothing to do with bad ammo or soft primers.
The idiot had M16 parts in his FCG.
Let's keep the Barfcom disinformation off of this board pleas.
polymorpheous
05-24-13, 23:07
Friend of yours? :p
Nope.
I got a good friend with a C3/SOT though.
Legit!:dirol:
polymorpheous
05-24-13, 23:09
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=192:olofsons-troubles&catid=19:the-knox-update&Itemid=144
Two different stories here.
I call BS.
The idiot had M16 parts in his FCG.
Yeah, that mysterious "unmarked, third position"... wonder how that got there?? :confused:
Nope.
I got a good friend with a C3/SOT though.
Legit!:dirol:
When are we scheduling a "play date"? :D
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The Geissele G2S is the best bang for your buck. Snip
It's much nicer than the LMT 2 stage trigger and beats every gi trigger by miles.
My experience was different..... My lmt 2 stage is both smoother and crisper than the SSA I tried. Maybe I just got a bad SSA.
I believe the LMT complete lowers with twostage is one of the sleeper deals out there. I'm not sure you can build a better lower for same or less money.
---sent from my PRC-104 using a knee key
From the mysterious, UN-marked third selector switch position to forcing it beyond it's normal stops and binding selector and disconnector, whole lot of difference between the two.
I love my mega arms adjustable trigger. Hard to beat at under $100.
polymorpheous
05-25-13, 09:27
What's the difference between the SSA and the G2S?
I've never even heard of the G2S until now.
I have a SSA installed in a lower and I think it is the bee's knees.
wetidlerjr
05-25-13, 10:23
What's the difference between the SSA and the G2S?
I've never even heard of the G2S until now.
I have a SSA installed in a lower and I think it is the bee's knees.
I found this:
The reason the G2S triggers are cheaper is because they speed up the machining process by not machining the J hook slot in the hammer. They add that little spring to take the place of the J hook. Yes, If you don't use that part, the hammer pin will walk out. I believe this is why Geissele made this trigger a OEM part only initially...
And this: G2S Install (http://0323924.netsolstores.com/pdfs/G2S%20Instructions%20Folded%20Rev%201.pdf)
What's the difference between the SSA and the G2S?
I've never even heard of the G2S until now.
I have a SSA installed in a lower and I think it is the bee's knees.
"The G2S is made with the same tool steel as the SSA and the sears are also wire edm'ed. The main differences with the SSA are a different way of holding the hammer pin in, different pins, no laser marking and only spot MP check. Visually, from the outside of the gun there is no difference from the SSA and the feel and reliability is the same." - Geissele product description.
Basically they implemented cost cutting without sacrificing quality (besides not MP testing every trigger, which isn't technically sacrificing quality, but qa) on the SSA. The result is 99% the same from the user's perspective. That 1% is that the newer g2s' pins don't have the indentation like other Geissele triggers do.
It was originally called the S2S, super 2 stage, and I think it was about $40 cheaper than the SSA ($120 vs $160). It wasn't strictly an oem part. They sold out very quick. Geissele then made it an oem only part (you could find them in Rainier Arms weapons, G&R LPKs/lowers/weapons, and I think Larue offered them for a while too). A year or so later, Geissele raised prices across the board, renamed it the G2S, and again made it available for individual sale.
There is really no reason to buy an SSA if you can find a G2S. And they can be found all over the place now... DSG, weaponoutfitters (oos), g&r (oos), etc.
I still don't understand the draw of the ACT. QMS is cheaper, has the exact same performance, and doesn't run into issues with selectors. I'm sure it's easier to clean, but... :sarcastic:
I've got two ACTs and two QMSs on my "cheapie" rifles and honestly, the QMSs feel nicer than the ACTs. There seems to
more travel on the ACTs and they don't seem to break as
cleanly. I tried the JP yellow trigger springs (would never put
a RP hammer spring on a serious rifle) and they helped a little,
but honestly, what worked best were Wolff RP trigger and
disc. springs with the stock ALG hammer springs. I've shot
plenty of surplus 5.56 using this setup and have yet to experience
a light primer strike. The ACTs are pretty and I wish it performed as well as the QMS triggers. Maybe I just got two exceptional QMSs and two not-so-hot ACTs. If you're willing to pay a little more, I would go with the G2S as others have pointed out. I have two installed on rifles - one is better than any SSA that I've felt, and the other just a bit stiffer.
the S2S Super 2 Stage was not wire EDM like the G2S. They had a giant headache with lots of people complaining about creep and/or a slight gritty feeling with some of the retailed units. He fixed them, of course, wasting a lot of time at the low price point.
For my money, I will buy the SSA, or SD-C which I prefer, every-time over the G2S. The better pins, not just the indentation, better pin retention and MPI on each unit. I will pay more for my bolt, barrel and FC parts to receive MPI on any serious build.
Wow you're quick to replace that stuff!
I woulda procrastinated a little bit more than immediately after i go the double lol
I wasn't worried about legalities as much as the fact that it was my patrol carbine, and I've been waiting for an excuse to drop $230 on this trigger.
I may buy another one for my .300blk
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Watch this video... Choosing the Right Trigger for You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhc)
Thank you for this
TurretGunner
05-29-13, 10:15
Wow.
According to the links this had nothing to do with bad ammo or soft primers.
The idiot had M16 parts in his FCG.
Let's keep the Barfcom disinformation off of this board pleas.
Wow, someone is spewing BS and ignorance of the subject.
Do some reading before jumping to conclusions
polymorpheous
05-29-13, 11:32
Wow, someone is spewing BS and ignorance of the subject.
Do some reading before jumping to conclusions
I did.
You're welcome to prove what I've read wrong.
Of course, to not further derail this thread send your argument via PM.
While you're at it, send our own IG a link too since he too called BS to the soft primer story in this very thread.
While you're at it, send our own IG a link too since he too called BS to the soft primer story in this very thread.
Yeah, Poly, forward that link to me IF you ever get it...
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