View Full Version : Red Dot vs. Bead vs. Ghost Ring, what is the consensus?
PatrioticDisorder
05-30-13, 09:45
So like the title reads, what is the general consensus on what is most effective? I have a Bushnell TRS-25 to test the concept on my Mossie 500 and I found that I'm slower to target than my 590 with a bead sight. I was going to replace the TRS with an aimpoint but now I'm having 2nd thoughts. Never used a ghost ring, so idk how that would work out.
These are defensive shotguns, not game guns, so any thoughts?
I strongly prefer having an RDS on shotguns and now run them on all my shotguns--typically a micro-Aimpoint, but RMR's also works well:
http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=957&d=1345079774
http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/139223645171.jpg
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/870microAimpoint_zps2a672481.jpg
Rib and bead for me. Look at the target not the sights. GH
I'm also faster with the beads than the RDS or ghost rings for shooting shot loads.
I learned shotgun shooting like most of you probably did - hunting and refined myself over the years by attending a couple of instructor courses that were evolved from John Satterwhite's shotgun techniques.
From the high ready ( international skeet ready) you follow the front bead on the target as you mount the shotgun, as soon as the shotgun touches your cheek you should be able to shoot.
To me this is quicker than finding the dot in either a reflex or tube RDS.
I'm also faster from the the low ready with the bead, but this is based on the stance directed nature of the technique, I feel with a little practice with a RDS from the low ready this wouldn't be the case.
For slugs beyond 25 yards the RDS or ghost rings are quicker and more accurate.
JMO
Dave Berryhill
05-30-13, 17:06
I strongly prefer having an RDS on shotguns and now run them on all my shotguns--typically a micro-Aimpoint, but RMR's also works well:,,,,
Hi Doc! Just curious - with your Aimpoint or RMR setups are you also able to see the iron sights or front bead? Not necessarily co-witnessed but if your red dot dies can you use your sights without removing the optic as is commonly done for AR15s?
GrandPooba
05-30-13, 18:48
Rib and bead for me. Look at the target not the sights. GH
More applicable to clay shooting/duck hunting. Delivering accurate hits with buck and slug out out to their max effective range in low light situations...then an Aimpoint T1 is a good idea.
GrandPooba
05-30-13, 18:52
Hi Doc! Just curious - with your Aimpoint or RMR setups are you also able to see the iron sights or front bead? Not necessarily co-witnessed but if your red dot dies can you use your sights without removing the optic as is commonly done for AR15s?
My 870 is set up very similarly to Doc's first picture. Aimpoint Micro on a piece of pic rail on the receiver. I have a barrel with rifle sights, instead of ghost rings.
My optic is on a QD mount, so if it does, I will toss it off and use the rifle sights. The rifle sights will clear the Pic rail no problem and give me a full sight picture.
I used to have a bead barrel, and it was more limited in what it could do. Since the Pic rail blocks a good portion of the bead, you would end up hitting high. You'd have to hold on a targets belt line in order to get COM heads.
PatrioticDisorder
05-30-13, 19:11
More applicable to clay shooting/duck hunting. Delivering accurate hits with buck and slug out out to their max effective range in low light situations...then an Aimpoint T1 is a good idea.
I'm actually kinda suprised to hear the love red dots are getting on this thread. I was hoping to confirm my feelings that a bead is superior. Point taken on lowlight conditions in fact I was wondering how an XS big dot as a front bead would fair.
In regards to the aimpoint, how high of a mount do you have? I have the Bushnell mounted low on the rail and for whatever reason I don't pick the dot up like I would on an AR as quickly as I would the bead. Could be a training issue on my part, just curious what mounts the guys who are successfully running red dots are using?
GrandPooba
05-30-13, 19:20
I'm actually kinda suprised to hear the love red dots are getting on this thread. I was hoping to confirm my feelings that a bead is superior. Point taken on lowlight conditions in fact I was wondering how an XS big dot as a front bead would fair.
In regards to the aimpoint, how high of a mount do you have? I have the Bushnell mounted low on the rail and for whatever reason I don't pick the dot up like I would on an AR as quickly as I would the bead. Could be a training issue on my part, just curious what mounts the guys who are successfully running red dots are using?
I had an XS tritium bead. It was nice and very effective. If it fits your mission and purpose, it would be great. I personally just felt that I wanted something more precise for slug out to 100m or so, which explains why I went to a rifle sight/Aimpoint combo. In my case, the rifle sights are obviously a backup, as the Aimpoint Micro is incredibly robust.
My Aimpoint T1 rides on a Larue QD Low mount, which is about as low as you can get. I think shotgun fit plays a big role in how easy it is to pick up the dot. Most people are running a stock that is too long for tactical shotgun use. I personally have a Speedfeed Youth stock, which is about perfect for my body size. I have no issues picking up the dot, nor do I have to crane my neck to get behind the sight.
RogerinTPA
05-30-13, 19:31
Micro Aimpoint for me on my 11-87. I took two shotgun courses, one with, and one without. I was way more accurate with the aimpoint, especially with slugs at 50 yards and beyond.
More applicable to clay shooting/duck hunting. Delivering accurate hits with buck and slug out out to their max effective range in low light situations...then an Aimpoint T1 is a good idea.
How do dots help target anything in low light conditions?? Does a dot somehow illuminate a target? GH
GrandPooba
05-30-13, 20:38
How do dots help target anything in low light conditions?? Does a dot somehow illuminate a target? GH
have you ever taken a low light class? Real world light is dynamic, not black and white. There are many instances where you are able to identify your target due to sufficient ambient light or backlight, but your own sights are still in the dark.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/7668
tappedandtagged
05-31-13, 06:28
I like the bead. Although, I have noticed those in my dept. that were not adept to shotguns before find the ghost rings much easier to use. So... It may just be the back woods hunter that likes the bead better. Everytime I go to qualify, I always try to find an old Wingmaster to use with the plain bead vs. the new Express SG with the ghost rings.
PatrioticDisorder
05-31-13, 07:37
I had an XS tritium bead. It was nice and very effective. If it fits your mission and purpose, it would be great. I personally just felt that I wanted something more precise for slug out to 100m or so, which explains why I went to a rifle sight/Aimpoint combo. In my case, the rifle sights are obviously a backup, as the Aimpoint Micro is incredibly robust.
My Aimpoint T1 rides on a Larue QD Low mount, which is about as low as you can get. I think shotgun fit plays a big role in how easy it is to pick up the dot. Most people are running a stock that is too long for tactical shotgun use. I personally have a Speedfeed Youth stock, which is about perfect for my body size. I have no issues picking up the dot, nor do I have to crane my neck to get behind the sight.
I'm thinking I need to run an LT660HK for me to pick the dot up quickly. Every time I start from low ready the dot is always too high for me to see it. I run blackhawk stock (I know, not well recieved on this forum) with the shortest possible length of pull.
Are those the old Wickert sights?
Those as from don lazzarini (sp). In California I have them on several guns
If the rds fails I use the tube as a huge ghost. Like any concept if has its limits
Pending your zero mounts and optic the sights may be used
I personally like the RMR (esp RM08). I can zero the apex of the triangle for slugs at 100 yards.
If i do not have an RMR I prefer a rib and gold bead. However, an 870 with rifle sights is as accurate as I am with slugs.
IMO.... From best to worst:
Red dot
low profile rifle sights
ribbed bead
ghost
bead
normal rifle sights (870 only)
Red dot if you're going to carry a shotgun or game with it. It's respectable use for a red dot for sure.
I just put these on my 870 and LOVE them. As fast a bead, nearly as accurate for me as ghost and don't stick up to snag on anything. Allow me to go 75y with slugs where I'd feel comfortable hunting, but I'd go 100y if I had to defensively.
http://frankbaumer.com/Heartland%20Pictures/More_Pics/Remington_870_Police_SBS_lp_rifle_sights_2.jpg
My m1S90 has similar low profile factory sights, love em
Ribbed bead is fast, and allows a little bit of accurate slug shot, assuming you know your windage or it just happens to line up well.
I think ghost are WAY too slow, at least for me, I've found them to give me a sort of tunnel vision. Lose a lot of peripheral. I keep a shotgun for big game protection, so not what I wanted.
Bead is fine, just has no option of lining up a slug at all.
And I absolutely despise Remington's normal (ultra high profile) side-pokers... I mean rifle sights.
.... So, if you can't get a good set of sights or the sights you want, do a red dot.
As Steve noted, my BIS are custom ones that Don Lazzarini has been making since the 1990's.
Slight detour. We have been looking for ways to wean off the SF dedicated shotgun WML forends (http://www.surefire.com/illumi.../shotgun-forend.html (http://www.surefire.com/illumination/weaponlights/shotgun-forend.html)), as they are big, heavy, awkward, expensive, lacking modularity, and force you to use a specific light. To that end we tried a variety of options, including barrel mounts and various pic railed forends. Recently some friends from the north recommended Cadex: http://cadexdefence.com/cadex_index.html. We tried the Cadex Mag Cap Dual Rail accessory mount:
http://cadexdefence.com/products_image/870_Mag_cap_dual_rail.jpg
It comes with two lengths of pic rail and an end cap the fits onto the mag tube end, allowing the ring mount to slide on, then the normal end cap/extension tube is screwed back into place. This works very well for use on 870's with or without mag extension tubes and allows mounting of any light with a pic rail interface.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/Cadexmountclose_zpse891302f.jpg
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/870w_Cadex_zps549aeff2.jpg
Some folks like the light reciprocating with the handguard, especially those lights without a constant on feature--the Magpul forend with a pic rail works great.
Others individuals use a click on tail cap with constant on and prefer the light to NOT be attached to the forend--the Cadex mount is strong, durable, and combat proven for this application.
If you are shooting at hallway distances I think its hard to beat the speed and simplicity of a bead sight. If you stretch out to slug distances then obviously a ghost ring, or better yet, an RDS would be the way to go IMO.
I prefer an RDS with rifle sights so I can cowitness.
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Guns/null_zps96852c77.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Guns/null_zps96852c77.jpg.html)
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Guns/null_zps1634d07b.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Guns/null_zps1634d07b.jpg.html)
We have been looking for ways to wean off the SF dedicated shotgun WML forends, as they are big, heavy, awkward, expensive, lacking modularity, and force you to use a specific light.
Damn right on that. Best move I made was to get right of the surefire from my Benelli. I wouldn't even consider one for the 870, way too heavy was my problem with them.
I'll check out the Cadex for my 870, but I might just attach a polymer pic rail to the "tactical" style handguard. A little methyl acrylate ought to keep that there well enough. It would be nice to mill it to fit well, I just don't like the magpul handguard but it would save some time!
I like the bead. Although, I have noticed those in my dept. that were not adept to shotguns before find the ghost rings much easier to use. So... It may just be the back woods hunter that likes the bead better. Everytime I go to qualify, I always try to find an old Wingmaster to use with the plain bead vs. the new Express SG with the ghost rings.
I'd be willing to bet the common tendency was that they shot high with the bead, that is a consequence of mounting the shotgun too low into the shoulder and not getting eye, rear sight plane/rib, bead alignment.
For fast accurate shots within 25 yards using buckshot, effective use of the bead on a standard police shotgun requires a proper mount of the shotgun into the shoulder. A lot of instructors don't quite grasp this, as a result they pass on advice such telling shooters that slugs rise so use a 1/2 bead hold, or shoot at the waist.
Don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for ghost rings, RDS, and even the gawdawful carbine sights that remington puts on barrels, but the shotgun is not a rifle, for use as a SHOTgun and close range rifle (within 50 yards) the bead is just fine.
Dave Berryhill
05-31-13, 18:35
That Cadex light mount looks like a pretty solid, KISS method of mounting a flashlight. What I've always liked about the Surefire 870 mount was the position of the light at 6:00 but you guys are right about them being big and expensive. I don't care much for most of the mounts that put the light on the side of the fore end but that Cadex mount looks like it puts the light pretty high and close to the barrel. I'll have to give it a try.
SeriousStudent
05-31-13, 19:35
Mr. Berryhill, have you had the opportunity to try one of the older Surefire shotgun lights, with the original Laser Products logo?
I've found them to be slimmer and easier to manipulate than the larger "modern" lights. They also work really well on illuminating a room, when you combine them with something like a Malkoff M61 LED. I get 200 lumens and a lot of flood. It will fill a room or most backyards.
That LED will also run about 2.5 hours on a fresh set of Surefire CR123's as well.
I have one of the larger Surefire 618 lights on a 870 Police Magnum, and do find it challenging. The older light seems to work quite well for me on a different testbed 870. They are also easy to track down on eBay for less that 200 dollars.
Just throwing that out there, and curious about your thoughts. I hope all is well for you, I am a very big fan of your 1911 work.
If you are shooting at hallway distances I think its hard to beat the speed and simplicity of a bead sight. If you stretch out to slug distances then obviously a ghost ring, or better yet, an RDS would be the way to go IMO.
Rci1911 I find iam just as fast or faster with a rds at even hallway distances
My handguns and carbines all have rds on them even at hallway distance whatever that is, 5 yards or 200 yards in some buildings I want an rds
The new Surefire shotgun list are freaking amazing. They make the current fury look weak, which it is not.
Tat said the team light mount as well as the mount from cdngear is very nice as well
So like the title reads, what is the general consensus on what is most effective? I have a Bushnell TRS-25 to test the concept on my Mossie 500 and I found that I'm slower to target than my 590 with a bead sight. I was going to replace the TRS with an aimpoint but now I'm having 2nd thoughts. Never used a ghost ring, so idk how that would work out.
These are defensive shotguns, not game guns, so any thoughts?
Why are you slower with the red dot? Are you having to chase the dot due to an inconsistent mount? Are you spending too much time trying to refine a sight picture with the dot?
Dave Berryhill
06-01-13, 10:37
Mr. Berryhill, have you had the opportunity to try one of the older Surefire shotgun lights, with the original Laser Products logo?
Not a bad idea - it will match my old "Laser Products" pistol light for my P226, including the piece of inner tube to hold the tape switch to the grips. :)
Seriously though, that is a good idea for my personal gun. I'd also like to explore some other options for customer's guns and having something readily available is always a plus. When I get to Frisco this Summer, I'm going to be working on some different guns besides 1911s including shotguns.
What's the dealeo on those Don Lazzarini rear sights? Are they available for purchase? They look like the sight that I saw on an old 870 built at Gunsite. What type of sight is inside the protective ears?
When I attended the FBI's Firearms Instructor School many moons ago we learned how to use the groove on the top of the 870 receiver and the front pedestal/bead as a front and rear sight for shooting slugs. Once you figured out your dope it was pretty easy to hit a 12" gong at 100 yards. Remington doesn't add that groove to the Express models anymore, probably to save money.
I'll have to try a red dot sight on a shotgun. I prefer a ribbed barrel with a big front bead vs. ghost ring sights but a tactical 870 can get heavy very quickly. Add an extended mag tube, side saddle ammo carrier and a light and the next thing you need are wheels and a trailer hitch so you can tow it to the range!
Newer Remington police models can be had with express-style rifle sights. Remington calls them low-profile rifle sights. I got my hands on a barrel with these sights right after Remington announced them. I really like them.
Photos from Remington:
http://remingtonle.com/images/shotguns/detail2lp.png
http://remingtonle.com/images/shotguns/870p-14in.png
SeriousStudent
06-01-13, 13:09
......
I'll have to try a red dot sight on a shotgun. I prefer a ribbed barrel with a big front bead vs. ghost ring sights but a tactical 870 can get heavy very quickly. Add an extended mag tube, side saddle ammo carrier and a light and the next thing you need are wheels and a trailer hitch so you can tow it to the range!
Sir, if you are ever in Texas, you are welcome to borrow one of mine for an eval. They are set up exactly that way. I'll even include the wheels and firing lanyard.
I've always viewed it similarly to how I looked at artillery. Heavy, not very fun to lug around, but highly effective when used in a direct-fire role. Like pointed at a locked bedroom door, from behind cover.
Thank you for your reply and your time.
SeriousStudent
06-01-13, 13:12
RWK - very interesting. I had not seen that barrel before, it does look very useful.
And I've been thinking about starting the paperwork for an SBS, that may have tipped me over the edge.
Thanks and stay safe.
Dave Berryhill
06-01-13, 13:33
RWK - I saw those on Remington's website but would have to buy a barrel or complete gun to try them. Hmmm....maybe Remington would sell the bases and sights and they could be silver soldered to an existing barrel.
This might be a fairly simple option for those that have a long ribbed "field" barrel and want it cut down to 18"
http://xssights.com/specialty/pix/Shotgun-Benelli-04.jpg
Steve, which SF light are using on your shotguns?
Lazzarini sights: http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/Lazzarini_Sights_zpsa3f4195a.jpg
After messing around a lot with shotguns set-up with open sights, a ghost ring and an Aimpoint, I would say none of the above.
My far and away favorite is an aperture sight, threaded to accept a medium sized aperture insert. This set-up gives up nothing in speed, but allows me dramatically better precision at longer range with slugs.
With any shot load, I am definitely slower with a RDS than the aperture sights. I am also mostly dissatisfied with the cheek weld with iron sights and the RDS -- seems like the comb is set for one but not the other. The only shotgun I have used that puts the iron sights and RDS on the same plain is the now discontinued Beretta TX Storm:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/storm2.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/storm2.jpg.html)
RWK - I saw those on Remington's website but would have to buy a barrel or complete gun to try them. Hmmm....maybe Remington would sell the bases and sights and they could be silver soldered to an existing barrel.
This might be a fairly simple option for those that have a long ribbed "field" barrel and want it cut down to 18"
http://xssights.com/specialty/pix/Shotgun-Benelli-04.jpg
I thought about doing this. Cutting a ribbed down and adding these. XS gave me the dove tail dimensions, and it would easy to do. But I decided adding sights to a rib didn't make sense if I could just start with the same sights without the rib. Plus the ribbed barrels can only be cut to 19.75 or so to meet up with the last rib island.
Those non-rib version are the ones I have and talked about on the first page. I LOVE those. XS makes them for Rem.
RWK - very interesting. I had not seen that barrel before, it does look very useful.
And I've been thinking about starting the paperwork for an SBS, that may have tipped me over the edge.
Thanks and stay safe.
Those are the XS low profile. They have the police version at 14.5" and Midway and Rem carry an 18".
I'm SO glad I got this barrel instead of the normal rifle sights.
RWK - I saw those on Remington's website but would have to buy a barrel or complete gun to try them. Hmmm....maybe Remington would sell the bases and sights and they could be silver soldered to an existing barrel.
Not sure if the sights are available as parts. I bought my 18.5" barrel when they first came out with the 14.5's. It took a lot of negotiation with Remington to convince them to sell me an 18.5" at the time.
Bead. I'm an old wing shooter, and pay no attention to barrel or bead. The gun shoots where I look, especially at inside the house ranges. I would suggest not-too-blocky sights or dot to a new shooter.
SeriousStudent
06-02-13, 00:17
Those are the XS low profile. They have the police version at 14.5" and Midway and Rem carry an 18".
I'm SO glad I got this barrel instead of the normal rifle sights.
Interesting. I snagged an old beater 870 at Cabela's a few months ago, and had a local smith cut the 26" ribbed barrel down for me, then add a XS tritium Big Dot front sight.
He also mounted the Mesa Tactical rail on the top of the receiver, for a spare H-1 I had laying around.
What works really well, is that the groove down the center of the rail actually acts as a rear sight, when I do not have the Aimpoint mounted.
So it has the low profile like your sights. Of course, you can't do that with the H-1 mounted. But as earlier posters said, it just becomes a giant ghost ring then.
I need to do some pictures.
Bead. I'm an old wing shooter, and pay no attention to barrel or bead. The gun shoots where I look, especially at inside the house ranges. I would suggest not-too-blocky sights or dot to a new shooter.
I am with you 100%. GH
Is it really that big of a deal to simply stick with the bead? I figured it would be fine since it's KISS.
Mind you, I only try to break clays with shotguns these days. I don't know much about them in the "social work" context other than the basic stuff I glean off this site and others like it. I've never shot buckshot at a target or have an intuition for it at this point.
That being said, I'm buying an 870 at the end of this month or next.
Canonshooter
06-07-13, 17:45
I've never used a RDS or ghost ring sights on a SG, so I may not know what I'm missing. But, I have found a HiViz sight at the end of a vent rib wicked fast and plenty accurate out to 50 yards.
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg
sierra 223
06-07-13, 21:36
For SD work with a shotgun I use buckshot, and with buckshot I prefer a bead.
Some may prefer something else but that is what works best for me.
I would suggest looking at Remington's low profile rifle sights. They are as fast as a bead close up, but offer a express V rear sight on the rear of the barrel. So far with slugs I have taken it out to 50 yards. Worth a look.
Kev
.46caliber
06-09-13, 17:17
Vent rib with a fiber optic bead. I could see using rifle sights or an RDS being advantageous with slugs, but for most applications and buckshot loads a bead on top of a rib, especially with a smaller unobtrusive mid rib bead will be all that is needed.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
PatrioticDisorder
06-11-13, 09:25
I've never used a RDS or ghost ring sights on a SG, so I may not know what I'm missing. But, I have found a HiViz sight at the end of a vent rib wicked fast and plenty accurate out to 50 yards.
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg
How easy is it to pick up that hiviz sight in low light?
.46caliber
06-11-13, 13:15
How easy is it to pick up that hiviz sight in low light?
Pretty easy. Even the smaller pipes used by the gun manufacturers as OEM are easy to pick up before daybreak in a duck blind. The larger aftermarket units are even easier. Sometimes they get so big and bright they become a distraction.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
crosseyedshooter
06-12-13, 13:19
My 870 has a tritium bead sight, but had I known all my local ranges don't allow slug shooting without rifle or adjustable sights, I would've ordered my receiver drilled and tapped for a picatinny rail.
I think plain and simple, beads are short range sights and have limited range simply due to lack of precision compared with the other options. There'll always be someone who claims to be accurate with slugs and bead sights at 100 yards, but I'd bet that same person could be even more accurate with rifle sights, ghost ring or RDS.
I've never used a RDS or ghost ring sights on a SG, so I may not know what I'm missing. But, I have found a HiViz sight at the end of a vent rib wicked fast and plenty accurate out to 50 yards.
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg
More shots of this gun?
John Hearne
06-16-13, 21:27
Not mentioned yet are the replacement rifle sights from Trijicon. They look 100% like pistol sights and are amazingly fast to use while retaining the ability to plant slugs when needed.
http://www.trijicon.com/images/product_masters/RE01.jpg
I just got rid of two shotguns to build my ideal shotgun.
It has a rib with an XS bead. I thought about a dot, but I want a shotgun to be as simple as possible. I don't think the XS gives up anything inside of 25 yards with 00 or shot, it does give up a little with slugs.
SeriousStudent
06-16-13, 22:39
I was in a shotgun class today, with two instructors that had a LOT of time chasing bad guys with shotguns.
John - those Trijicon sights were discussed, as something people wanted to try. I think three had a XS bead on a rib. Including me. I have another Police Magnum that I am going to drop those Trijicon sights into.
I was running a Aimpoint H-1 with Federal Flite Control 00 Buck and their Truball Deep Penetrator slugs. It was ridiculously easy with the Aimpoint. Point, click. Golfball-sized hole appears where desired.
To quote one of the instructors "It's like running a very large caliber manually-operated rifle."
Seriously, when we were doing the LAPD shotgun qual at the end, it was much simpler with the H-1. I have not run a shotgun for social purposes in decades (and it showed), but the H-1 helped a lot.
I prefer a bead front sight and a good flashlight mounted on my shotgun. I don't have anything against running a RDS, but I am a lot faster inside 25 yards with a plain bead.
GrandPooba
06-17-13, 09:45
I was in a shotgun class today, with two instructors that had a LOT of time chasing bad guys with shotguns.
John - those Trijicon sights were discussed, as something people wanted to try.
What were the instructor opinions on those Trijicon rifle sights?
I have a set of Ameriglo rifle sights on order for my 870. They are very similar except for the rear dots which are a little more subdued than the Trijicon's.
John Hearne
06-17-13, 22:00
I was in a shotgun class today, with two instructors that had a LOT of time chasing bad guys with shotguns.
John - those Trijicon sights were discussed, as something people wanted to try.
Was that class in Dallas? If it was you missed your chance to see those sights in person.
SeriousStudent
06-17-13, 23:10
Was that class in Dallas? If it was you missed your chance to see those sights in person.
Dallas Pistol Club with Wayne and Darryl for the HiTS Shotgun Class on Father's Day. Were you there?
I was the old grey-haired dude in white long sleeve shirt that was sweating like a monkey doing calculus.
Small world. ;)
SeriousStudent
06-17-13, 23:15
What were the instructor opinions on those Trijicon rifle sights?
I have a set of Ameriglo rifle sights on order for my 870. They are very similar except for the rear dots which are a little more subdued than the Trijicon's.
One of these was going to put them on a new barrel, to test them. I'll ask him some more questions, I have another pistol class with those guys this weekend.
GrandPooba
06-18-13, 07:50
Dallas Pistol Club with Wayne and Darryl for the HiTS Shotgun Class on Father's Day. Were you there?
Damn I've really been wanting to take a class with them. Ever since the ammo crisis, I've been working hard on my shotgun skills.
I've always been a fan of ghost ring sights on a shotgun. The bead is fine 99% of the time, but it wouldn't be my first choice. I never got into red dot optics for scatterguns. I like to keep my pumpguns simple, snag-free and light. I also like the fiber optic sights that you can glue onto your barrel.
I prefer an RDS with rifle sights so I can cowitness.
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Guns/null_zps96852c77.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Guns/null_zps96852c77.jpg.html)
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Guns/null_zps1634d07b.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/CoryCop25/media/Guns/null_zps1634d07b.jpg.html)
CoryCop25:
What RDS is that? that you can attach directly to the gun? without a rail?
Thanks.
Paul
CoryCop25:
What RDS is that? that you can attach directly to the gun? without a rail?
Thanks.
Paul
It is a burris FastFire II. I drilled and tapped the receiver, removed the picatinny clamp from the mount and drilled holes in the bottom. It took a little time but fits perfectly with a great co-witness. The only con is that I will have to remove the sight to replace the battery and then obviously have to re-zero.
I bought a burris XTR 1-4x24 and the FastFire came with it. I did not like the piggyback set up so I decided to use the FastFire for the shotgun. I love this set up. Not too heavy and I can run it pretty fast.
Partridge -
Have you ever seen one of these:
http://www.burrisoptics.com/speedbead.html
They are primarily for use with shot loads, but if you buy the mount all you have to do is remove the stock, place the speed bead mount in place and then remount the stock.
For a multipurpose shotgun I prefer beads, For a single purpose shotgun, say if I was hunting deer with slugs, I'd have a rifled barrel and a scope, if not a scope then a RDS with ghost ring irons.
For an all around shotgun I'd stick with the bead - slugs 50 yards and in aren't a problem.
For purpose built HD shotgun, I'd either stick with bead or a RDS, at HD ranges you don't need sights other than a bead.
It is a burris FastFire II. I drilled and tapped the receiver, removed the picatinny clamp from the mount and drilled holes in the bottom. It took a little time but fits perfectly with a great co-witness. The only con is that I will have to remove the sight to replace the battery and then obviously have to re-zero.
I bought a burris XTR 1-4x24 and the FastFire came with it. I did not like the piggyback set up so I decided to use the FastFire for the shotgun. I love this set up. Not too heavy and I can run it pretty fast.
Missed this post while I was writing.
Fastfire III has the battery box moved to the top so you don't have to do that, I am currently fondling one at my desk - screwed up and didn't order the right mount for co-witness on our AR's with fixed FSP's.
Missed this post while I was writing.
Fastfire III has the battery box moved to the top so you don't have to do that, I am currently fondling one at my desk - screwed up and didn't order the right mount for co-witness on our AR's with fixed FSP's.
Yes the FastFire III is much better. I have installed a few of them as back up optics on some rifles. Burris has stepped up a bit on these.
I've always been a fan of ghost ring sights on a shotgun. The bead is fine 99% of the time, but it wouldn't be my first choice. I never got into red dot optics for scatterguns. I like to keep my pumpguns simple, snag-free and light. I also like the fiber optic sights that you can glue onto your barrel.
If a bead is good 99% of the time why would you choose anything else???????????????????????????????????? GH
SeriousStudent
06-18-13, 19:38
Damn I've really been wanting to take a class with them. Ever since the ammo crisis, I've been working hard on my shotgun skills.
I very much enjoyed it and benefited from it. When I'm not at work or herding cats here, I'm trying to write up an AAR on that class.
GrandPooba
06-18-13, 19:54
By the way, my Ameriglo 870 rifle sights (Part #: RM-302) came in today. I installed them and first impressions are very good. Front bead is greeb tritium with a high visibility white ring. Rear rears are yellow tritium but with no rings around them, so they are a bit subdued. Excellent sight picture. When presenting the gun from a low ready, the sights are easy to pick up and look pretty much like pistol sights. Certainly easier to pick up than the thin factory front sight blade.
The sights are also high enough to clear the piece of Pic rail I have on the receiver in the event I have to ditch the AImpoint T1 (mounted on a Larue QD low mount)
I will do some drills at the range this weekend to test them out.
Greeb tritium must be the latest color I haven't heard of. How does it stack up against normal color tritium vials?? GH
GrandPooba
06-18-13, 20:33
If a bead is good 99% of the time why would you choose anything else???????????????????????????????????? GH
because there are sighting options out there that are more accurate, more versatile, suitable across more light conditions, work better with a variety of shooting positions, etc.
SeriousStudent
06-18-13, 21:20
If a bead is good 99% of the time why would you choose anything else???????????????????????????????????? GH
If you have ever tried to use a plain non-tritium bead sight in low light, you will likely have difficulty.
Sadly, the critters that would likely require the use of my 870 are two legged now. They seem to prefer darkness in these parts.
GH41 and Shao - I'm not dogpiling on you, just pointing out that for my needs, a simple brass bead is insufficient.
I'm also happy with how using a red dot on both the carbine and shotgun helps me acquire and ventilate things faster. I could use iron sights on both. It would be simpler, and I would have probably saved about $1600 when it was all said and done.
But an Aimpoint is much faster for my aging eyeballs. Red dot, loud noise, problem go bye bye, call popo. I like shorter checklists.
It is a burris FastFire II. I drilled and tapped the receiver, removed the picatinny clamp from the mount and drilled holes in the bottom. It took a little time but fits perfectly with a great co-witness. The only con is that I will have to remove the sight to replace the battery and then obviously have to re-zero.
I bought a burris XTR 1-4x24 and the FastFire came with it. I did not like the piggyback set up so I decided to use the FastFire for the shotgun. I love this set up. Not too heavy and I can run it pretty fast.
Ahhh. Maybe not for me. I dont have the tools or the know-how for that. Thanks man.
Paul
Partridge -
Have you ever seen one of these:
http://www.burrisoptics.com/speedbead.html
Thats very interesting. Good prices too. It doesnt look like they make it for Mossbergs though.
Thanks.
Paul
4thPointOfContact
06-19-13, 21:27
Nothing special on mine, just a Mossberg SPX with fiber-optic front sight and a Bushnell TRS-25 mounted just in front of the rear peep.
I keep an eye on the front fiber while mounting and when my cheek hits the stock the red dot co-witnesses with the front sight. In the dark (which is just about half of the day), the fiber-optic is useless and the TRS really begins to shine.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/941718_3206516979380_1958592499_n.jpg
Picked up this gun this week.
It has that nice big dot.
PatrioticDisorder
06-27-13, 20:48
Thanks fellas, particularly to the SME's who responded, I will be adding Aimpoint micros to my 590 & 500 Mossies in the near future.
I have an XS Big Dot on my 870 as well.
Canonshooter
08-24-13, 20:06
More shots of this gun?
A few more showing the front bead and light set up. I plan on picking up an Inforce light and keep it permanently mounted on the SG (the X300 is currently switched around between the 1187, a Glock17 and my AR).
CDM BMT mount with 6-slot rail. I now have the light mounted on the left side, which I find much easier to activate with my thumb;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-13.jpg
The X300 mounted. When illuminating targets outdoors or in open indoor areas, the light also illuminates the bead making it glow, so it's very easy to pick up. Indoors in tight quarters, where a lot of the light is reflected back, the bead appears black against the brightly-lit target. In either case, getting the bead on-target is quick and easy;
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-14.jpg
I prefer good ol iron sights on my shotguns....I feel I can get/focus on target faster with them............
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