911 instructs woman to ask her rapist to go away . . . [Archive]

CarlosDJackal

05-30-13, 21:19

I am certain that they would have made a patrol officer readily available if she used a handgun to protect herself from the assailant.
A home owner called 911 because he was observed thieves breaking into his garage. The 911 Operator told him they would send someone as soon as they could but it may be a while because they did not have any Officers available.

After waiting long enough the man called 911 again and told them that he only needs the Coroner because he had shot the thieves. When the Officers showed up and caught the intruders; they asked the home owner why he had lied to dispatch about shooting the perps. The home owner asked the officer why dispatch lied to him about not having anyone available to respond.

J8127

05-30-13, 21:21

"For every woman who defends themselves with a gun, 83 are hurt by a gun".

I'd like to know where they cherry picked this statistic from.

It's from a very profesional study by leading scientists. I think it was called making shit up (Smith et all)

Palmguy

05-30-13, 21:32

"For every woman who defends themselves with a gun, 83 are hurt by a gun".

I'd like to know where they cherry picked this statistic from.

Sounds like more women need guns.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Honu

05-30-13, 22:08

yeah when I saw it this morning all I can do is shake my head when (that lady) speaks !!!!

sad for the victim ! which she had a gun ! then again most likely she would have been in trouble for having one somehow and defending herself !

SteyrAUG

05-30-13, 22:35

I have it on good authority that 911 operators are "trained professionals" and you should always follow their instructions to the letter or you risk legal ramifications later.

Honu

05-30-13, 23:43

I have it on good authority that 911 operators are "trained professionals" and you should always follow their instructions to the letter or you risk legal ramifications later.

at least you provided me a little smile tonight :) hahaah so true
and remember we/you dont need a gun thats what the police are for !

jpmuscle

05-30-13, 23:43

"For every woman who defends themselves with a gun, 83 are hurt by a gun".

I'd like to know where they cherry picked this statistic from.

Not gonna lie, I saw red when she said that.

Honu

05-31-13, 00:55

fact is that naddy dike dem thing on Megyns show would never need a gun cause nobody would want to touch that !!!!

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 01:02

I have it on good authority that 911 operators are "trained professionals" and you should always follow their instructions to the letter or you risk legal ramifications later.

Totally different circumstances. One you have an idiot wanna be cop looking for trouble the other you have a woman being raped. Quite different.
Pat

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 01:03

"For every woman who defends themselves with a gun, 83 are hurt by a gun".

I'd like to know where they cherry picked this statistic from.

They get that stat by using suicide stats which obviously is bogus because people who want to kill themselves will do it with any means available.
Pat

Mauser KAR98K

05-31-13, 01:45

They get that stat by using suicide stats which obviously is bogus because people who want to kill themselves will do it with any means available.
Pat

+1. Yep.

jpmuscle

05-31-13, 02:22

Totally different circumstances. One you have an idiot wanna be cop looking for trouble the other you have a woman being raped. Quite different.
Pat

Or this country would actually be better off if more people were like GZ and actually gave a dam about their communities and neighborhoods in the first place, collective efficacy and all that.

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 05:24

Or this country would actually be better off if more people were like GZ and actually gave a dam about their communities and neighborhoods in the first place, collective efficacy and all that.

Yea until its your kid wearing a hoodie. Sorry but your flat wrong and we need a lot less like him around. Idiot does not go far enough to describe him.
Pat

The_War_Wagon

05-31-13, 06:40

Call Dominoes.

Not only will they get there FASTER, they're BOUND to give better advice, too... :rolleyes:

ryr8828

05-31-13, 06:59

Call Dominoes.

Not only will they get there FASTER, they're BOUND to give better advice, too... :rolleyes:

Jimmy Johns.

Alpha Sierra

05-31-13, 07:18

Totally different circumstances. One you have an idiot wanna be cop looking for trouble the other you have a woman being raped. Quite different.
Pat

I have to hand it to you. You are consistent, regardless of any lack of sense in your position.

mikelowrey

05-31-13, 07:25

A home owner called 911 because he was observed thieves breaking into his garage. The 911 Operator told him they would send someone as soon as they could but it may be a while because they did not have any Officers available.

After waiting long enough the man called 911 again and told them that he only needs the Coroner because he had shot the thieves. When the Officers showed up and caught the intruders; they asked the home owner why he had lied to dispatch about shooting the perps. The home owner asked the officer why dispatch lied to him about not having anyone available to respond.

:lol:

SteyrAUG

05-31-13, 14:09

Totally different circumstances. One you have an idiot wanna be cop looking for trouble the other you have a woman being raped. Quite different.
Pat

Actually during the 911 call the ex boyfriend wasn't even in the house yet, let alone raping her.

But I do have to wonder what might have happened if some "idiot wanna be cop looking for trouble" volunteer neighborhood watch just happened to be driving by as the ex boyfriend was forcing entry into their home.

Would the 911 operator have told him to "stay in his car"?

If it was your family inside, what would you have wanted him to do?

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 14:26

Actually during the 911 call the ex boyfriend wasn't even in the house yet, let alone raping her.

But I do have to wonder what might have happened if some "idiot wanna be cop looking for trouble" volunteer neighborhood watch just happened to be driving by as the ex boyfriend was forcing entry into their home.

Would the 911 operator have told him to "stay in his car"?

If it was your family inside, what would you have wanted him to do?

Yea the idiot would have shot the actual boyfriend who has having consensual sex with her because he did not know the heck what was going on.

SteyrAUG

05-31-13, 14:45

Yea the idiot would have shot the actual boyfriend who has having consensual sex with her because he did not know the heck what was going on.

Because the actual boyfriend was "breaking into her home" or for some reason "attacked the neighborhood watch guy?"

Seriously, if you are just gonna make things up there isn't much point to this discussion.

We don't know who attacked who in the Martin case so there really isn't any reason to discuss it except to trade the merits of what each one of us believes happened even though neither of us was there.

Regarding THIS situation, there was no "actual boyfriend" and there was no "consensual sex."

A woman called 911 for help and wasn't able to get any. As a consequence an ex boyfriend broke into her home and raped her.

Now in the above scenario, and not some fantasy made up one with completely different factors, wouldn't it have been nice if some "armed citizen", like perhaps a volunteer neighborhood watch, could have just happened to be there to help and prevent either the break in or the assault and rape.

Granted the likely hood of such a neighborhood patrol happening to go by and notice such a thing is a bit remote, but it's not like the police were even being sent out at all.

And this is why most of us need to be "prepared" to take care of ourselves and to not place all our faith in a 911 operator to save us. Personally, if the option presents itself, I'd much rather let the guys who my property taxes pay for already, come solve the problem.

But there are some times, like following a hurricane, where you are on their own and the police might show up after the fact to take a report.

TAZ

05-31-13, 14:53

Yea the idiot would have shot the actual boyfriend who has having consensual sex with her because he did not know the heck what was going on.

Not to detract too much from the lunacy of the 911 operator telling a potential tape victim to ask her attacker to go away, but did you just say that you would rather have your loved ones raped than have a good samaritan offer help in the form of physical defense?? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but I understood the posed hypothetical to be GZ or a similar guy walks by and sees someone force entry into your home with your wife/daughter there should they offer help or follow the operators advice and ask the perp to leave?? The whole potential rape fantasy being acted out doesn't sound to plausible, but then maybe the women in Alaska are different in that.

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 15:01

Not to detract too much from the lunacy of the 911 operator telling a potential tape victim to ask her attacker to go away, but did you just say that you would rather have your loved ones raped than have a good samaritan offer help in the form of physical defense?? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but I understood the posed hypothetical to be GZ or a similar guy walks by and sees someone force entry into your home with your wife/daughter there should they offer help or follow the operators advice and ask the perp to leave?? The whole potential rape fantasy being acted out doesn't sound to plausible, but then maybe the women in Alaska are different in that.

I support good Samaritans I am just saying what GZ did was not being a good Samaritan. Who was he defending who was being attacked in that case? No one. GZ shot a black kid for being black with a hoodie on. I don't trust him to make the right decision.
Pat

Palmguy

05-31-13, 15:31

I support good Samaritans I am just saying what GZ did was not being a good Samaritan. Who was he defending who was being attacked in that case? No one. GZ shot a black kid for being black with a hoodie on. I don't trust him to make the right decision.
Pat

He shot the kid because his head was being bashed into the ground. There is no substantiation for what you are claiming. Zero.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/Trayvon-MMA-style-attack

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 15:37

He shot the kid because his head was being bashed into the ground. There is no substantiation for what you are claiming. Zero.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/Trayvon-MMA-style-attack

He went looking for trouble and found it. He was told to leave the kid alone. The kid was not doing anything criminal. He confronts the kid perhaps flashes the gun kid defends himself from what he thinks is giong to be a lethal attack and then gets shot in cold blood by DZ. Could have easily played out like that. We will never know because the victim is dead. However we do know Zimmerman was an idiot who was told to wait for police to arrive and did not when no one was in any danger nor needed his help.
Pat

Moose-Knuckle

05-31-13, 15:47

Yea until its your kid wearing a hoodie. Sorry but your flat wrong and we need a lot less like him around. Idiot does not go far enough to describe him.
Pat

Well the 17 year old 6'+ 200lb "kid" in the hoodie was suspended from school for burglarizing lockers and being found with stolen jewelry in his backpack, assaulting a school bus driver, possession of marijuana, his Facebook page glorifying the “thug life”, photos on his cell phone of him participating in the “knock-out” game, and holding a handgun which is illegal at his age in the state of FL.

George Zimmerman did the world a favor, Trayvon Martin = one less oxygen thief in the world.

Now, can we keep this thread about a rape in OR and not some dead thug FL?

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 15:58

Well the 17 year old 6'+ 200lb "kid" in the hoodie was suspended from school for burglarizing lockers and being found with stolen jewelry in his backpack, assaulting a school bus driver, possession of marijuana, his Facebook page glorifying the “thug life”, photos on his cell phone of him participating in the “knock-out” game, and holding a handgun which is illegal at his age in the state of FL.

George Zimmerman did the world a favor, Trayvon Martin = one less oxygen thief in the world.

Now, can we keep this thread about a rape in OR and not some dead thug FL?
Well Zimmerman did not know him or any of that information. All he knew was he was a black kid in the neighborhood with a hoodie on. He also knew that dispatch told him to not approach and wait for police. He also did not see Martin commit any crime. Basically he was a hot head with an itchy trigger finger. I am fine to let this drop if certain other parties (SteyrAUG) would stop bringing it up in a derogatory fashion aimed at me. Also if we shot all kids who have used or are in possession of marijuana there would be a lot of dead kids. That is a total red herring issue.

As for the dispatcher asking the bad man to leave. The issue is liability. If the department tells the caller to shoot him they are liable. About the best they can do is like the dispatcher who told the young mother a year ago or so when a man was breaking down her door to do what she needed to do. The mother shot the man breaking in and all ended well. That was the case where the young mother told the dispatcher she had a gun. I agree that we should not have to worry about law suits as much as we do but that is the reality.
Pat

SteyrAUG

05-31-13, 16:58

I support good Samaritans I am just saying what GZ did was not being a good Samaritan. Who was he defending who was being attacked in that case? No one. GZ shot a black kid for being black with a hoodie on. I don't trust him to make the right decision.
Pat

Actually that is an assumption on your part.

We don't know who attacked who first.

But getting back on topic...this is hardly the first, nor will it be the last time, that 911 will tell somebody they are "on their own" so people better have a better Plan B than "Crap...now what do I do?"

SteyrAUG

05-31-13, 17:08

Well Zimmerman did not know him or any of that information. All he knew was he was a black kid in the neighborhood with a hoodie on. He also knew that dispatch told him to not approach and wait for police. He also did not see Martin commit any crime. Basically he was a hot head with an itchy trigger finger. I am fine to let this drop if certain other parties (SteyrAUG) would stop bringing it up in a derogatory fashion aimed at me. Also if we shot all kids who have used or are in possession of marijuana there would be a lot of dead kids. That is a total red herring issue.

Ya know what, it wasn't really intended to be as derogatory as you seem to be taking it. You shouldn't take it so personal. I'm sure you might find it annoying, but please remember that some of the things you do, like making baseless assumptions and saying that people should listen to 911 operators as if they are dispensing legal advice, are equally annoying. But I don't take it as a personal slight every time you do it.

As for the dispatcher asking the bad man to leave. The issue is liability. If the department tells the caller to shoot him they are liable. About the best they can do is like the dispatcher who told the young mother a year ago or so when a man was breaking down her door to do what she needed to do. The mother shot the man breaking in and all ended well. That was the case where the young mother told the dispatcher she had a gun. I agree that we should not have to worry about law suits as much as we do but that is the reality.
Pat

Honestly police response is a lot like homeowners insurance. It's a service you are obligated to pay for if you want to be a homeowner. And often the quality of that service is in direct proportion to the amount you pay.

That means as a typical homeowner I get pretty mediocre service. If there is some kind of disaster my insurance isn't going to cover a LOT of the things I would expect them to cover and I will receive much less than I think I'm entitled to based upon what I've paid in over the years compared to anything in the way of paid claims I've received.

Police response in my area is pretty much the same. Unless there is a serious crime going on, they don't even want to take a report or start a case number. If you want them to solve a crime, you had better have done 90% of the investigation for them and have evidence like security camera footage or they will issue a case number and probably not even talk to the person you suspect.

However, when my wife is at work at an office with a more exclusive zip code, she can make a "strange guy in the parking lot" call and the police actually show up and try and find the guy and find out what he is up to. They probably also have better property insurance and can expect full replacement value if anything happens to the building.

Magic_Salad0892

05-31-13, 17:16

people who want to kill themselves will do it with any means available.

I have to disagree with you on this one actually.

Suicide is usually a quick decision that's made with little forethought, and a firearm in the household (or just not secured) does provide an easier means of successful suicide.

Usually if somebody who has attempted suicide goes on a 72hr suicide watch, they don't attempt again. (To the best of my knowledge.)

I have direct experience in these matters, because I had a family member who we had to watch over during their problems with depression for like 4 years.

Sorry for being off topic.

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 17:55

Actually that is an assumption on your part.

We don't know who attacked who first.

But getting back on topic...this is hardly the first, nor will it be the last time, that 911 will tell somebody they are "on their own" so people better have a better Plan B than "Crap...now what do I do?"

We do know that Martin was committing no crime and Zimmerman went over and confronted him despite being told not too. Had he not done this things would have been fine.
Pat

Alaskapopo

05-31-13, 17:57

I have to disagree with you on this one actually.

Suicide is usually a quick decision that's made with little forethought, and a firearm in the household (or just not secured) does provide an easier means of successful suicide.

Usually if somebody who has attempted suicide goes on a 72hr suicide watch, they don't attempt again. (To the best of my knowledge.)

I have direct experience in these matters, because I had a family member who we had to watch over during their problems with depression for like 4 years.

Sorry for being off topic.

My biological father committed suicide with his vehicle exhaust despite having a fair number of guns handy. I have also seen my share of suicides by overdose and slashing of the wrists. People will find a way.
Pat

Honu

05-31-13, 18:01

BUT look at Japans suicide rate and the amount done with a gun !

if someone is going to kill themselves they will !

while a gun might seem like a easy thing to grab its more a convenience thing !
living in a high rise is convenience
having a car or bike or living near a lake or suicide by any other means

from a buddy who is a psych friend of mine sounds like suicide is not a quick decision thing at all but something that has built up over a long time ! the act might be quick but the build up is often very long and not just OH I am going to kill myself today

even as you mentioned you had to watch someone over 4 years !

I never went on any suicide calls but we went on attempted which are often giant plea for help

I have to disagree with you on this one actually.

Suicide is usually a quick decision that's made with little forethought, and a firearm in the household (or just not secured) does provide an easier means of successful suicide.

Usually if somebody who has attempted suicide goes on a 72hr suicide watch, they don't attempt again. (To the best of my knowledge.)

I have direct experience in these matters, because I had a family member who we had to watch over during their problems with depression for like 4 years.

Sorry for being off topic.

SteyrAUG

05-31-13, 18:40

We do know that Martin was committing no crime and Zimmerman went over and confronted him despite being told not too. Had he not done this things would have been fine.
Pat

No...we do NOT know that. But more importantly Zimmerman didn't know that.

At any rate, I'm trying not to have this debate AGAIN, so how about we just don't have this debate?

ST911

05-31-13, 18:42

Now, can we keep this thread about a rape in OR and not some dead thug FL?

This, please. Everyone take a deep breath.

Civility...

Todd.K

05-31-13, 20:45

Personally, if the option presents itself, I'd much rather let the guys who my property taxes pay for already, come solve the problem.

Steyr hit the nail on the head without knowing it. We have EXACTLY the level of LE we are willing to pay for here.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/reactionary_josephine_county_l.html

Josephine County is 1,642 square miles, so it's bit larger than Rhode Island and a bit smaller than Delaware. Population is 82,000, about 35,000 of which live in the city of Grants Pass. A significant number also live in semi rural areas just outside the city. Living out in the sticks here is very much the rural west, people should be prepared to take care of themselves. Even with full staffing before the budget problems response times could be an hour or more depending on the location.

67 percent of the land is Federal, and there are no property taxes from it. This was not a problem when timber was being harvested from them. It fed the economy and the feds gave some money from the sales to compensate the counties. Now timber sales are held up in almost endless lawsuits and the O&C funding is gone.

J-Dub

05-31-13, 20:54

Honestly police response is a lot like homeowners insurance. It's a service you are obligated to pay for if you want to be a homeowner. And often the quality of that service is in direct proportion to the amount you pay.

Police response in my area is pretty much the same. Unless there is a serious crime going on, they don't even want to take a report or start a case number. If you want them to solve a crime, you had better have done 90% of the investigation for them and have evidence like security camera footage or they will issue a case number and probably not even talk to the person you suspect.

Yes all police are lazy idiots that do not care about their jobs.....or the citizenry they are apart of.

You're probably the same person that expects swat teams to roll if a dog shits in your lawn and demand police action is civil matters (ie not criminal...ie not our f'ing job).

I swear, if I conducted myself the way 90% of the people portray police officers to act, I would be fired within a 10hr shift. I shit you not. But hey, maybe I don't live in bizzaro world.

I should've become a FF, people want to blow them on sight....

You want some REAL irony?????? Are you ready for it?????? Everyone screams and yells "support the troops" and "god bless the troops", but "**** the evil po-lice". 85-90% of my coworkers are ex-mil or current nat. guard/reserves.........lol. But **** them right? Because they are evil cops....lol. I love it...

T2C

05-31-13, 21:09

I support good Samaritans I am just saying what GZ did was not being a good Samaritan. Who was he defending who was being attacked in that case? No one. GZ shot a black kid for being black with a hoodie on. I don't trust him to make the right decision.
Pat

Over the past 25 years I have investigated quite a few use of force incidents involving both civilians and LEO. I was unable to draw a definitive conclusion about the incident involving George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin based on information available from the media.

People cannot expect the government to protect them 100% of the time. Part of the responsibility falls to the individual. If my wife were the victim of a home invasion and potential sexual assault, I pray that she has the state of mind to use the tools available to her to protect herself until police arrive. I trust her to make the right decision.

SteyrAUG

05-31-13, 21:51

jpmuscle

06-01-13, 05:13

Yes all police are lazy idiots that do not care about their jobs.....or the citizenry they are apart of.

You're probably the same person that expects swat teams to roll if a dog shits in your lawn and demand police action is civil matters (ie not criminal...ie not our f'ing job).

I swear, if I conducted myself the way 90% of the people portray police officers to act, I would be fired within a 10hr shift. I shit you not. But hey, maybe I don't live in bizzaro world.

I should've become a FF, people want to blow them on sight....

You want some REAL irony?????? Are you ready for it?????? Everyone screams and yells "support the troops" and "god bless the troops", but "**** the evil po-lice". 85-90% of my coworkers are ex-mil or current nat. guard/reserves.........lol. But **** them right? Because they are evil cops....lol. I love it...

I'm pretty sure that what he is trying to say is that most agencies are already under financial scrutiny as it is being public sector entities so when spending gets tight the first thing to take a hit are usually if not always public safety in some facet or another. Obviously underfunded LE agencies and departments lead to overworked and overburdened officers which directly contributes to the public's perception of trust and competency. When call response times are upwards of an hour or more for general peace officer related services people get mad. Except most people don't seem to realize that quality and competent service comes at price until they actually need it themselves. Not the LEO's fault they don't have enough uniforms on the street and they have to clear their call backlog the best they can.

Alpha Sierra

06-01-13, 06:15

I'm having a difficult time feeling any sympathy for anyone who places 100% of the burden of their self defense on others and then becomes a victim of violent crime

No.6

06-01-13, 08:15

So much FAIL.
Seems to me that the dispatcher told the woman how to get a response. The dispatcher says that if the guy "has a weapon or is trying to cause you physical harm, that's a different story", the woman could have replied "yes, I think I see a weapon". The woman mentioned that the guy had done this to her before. That right there should have immediately sent an officer to the scene IMO. Granted I'm not in LE, I wasn't there, I don't have any idea what the budget for the Sheriff's Dept. is, but to hear the dispatcher say "call the sheriff's office in the morning" kinda pisses me off. Why, so you can take a report? A bit late for that don't you think?
I know that LE is a hard job and most times a thankless one. I know several PD members in my town and for the most part they do give a crap. Unfortunately they're a bit outnumbered by the criminals and are usually only able to respond to a given situation after the fact.

HackerF15E

06-01-13, 11:28

He was told to leave the kid alone.

That's quite a stretch from what was actually said...

"We don't need you to do that."

SteyrAUG

06-01-13, 13:24

I'm having a difficult time feeling any sympathy for anyone who places 100% of the burden of their self defense on others and then becomes a victim of violent crime

You should consider that not everyone has the means or the ability to actually defend themselves. Some people just "aren't up for it" and having a gun, spear or garden weasel won't change that. They have a mental handicap that prevents them from engaging in certain actions as effectively as if both their hands were amputated.

You and I may "think" they should nut up and be ready to steer their own boat if the need arises but some people will actually stand there and be victimized and do nothing to prevent it. It's strange to see it, but I've seen it enough times over the years to know it exists.

Not saying it's what happened in this instance.

DragonDoc

06-05-13, 10:18

How did this thread derail so fast? The attack responses are uncalled for gentlemen.

I believe the OP was trying to point out how individuals have the sole responsibility for their safety. The Supreme Court has validated this view. You are a fool if your contigency plan is to call 911.

J-Dub

06-05-13, 10:37

That is not what I said at all.

Again, reread the part where when my wife is at work the police response to even "trivial" things is amazing.

I honestly don't know where you got any of that from what I said.

No I got exactly what you stated. Cops are so lazy they don't even want to take a report or "start a case number" (< which is one of the most retarded things I've heard since most depts. generate a case number for EVERYTHING)

But you're right, nobody should take any responsibility for their own safety. They should rely on the Cops and bitch about them when they don't arrive within seconds. I don't know if you are aware, but we don't have teleportation capabilities yet.....

Face the cold hard facts. 90% of Police work is reactionary, the rest is proactive (aka getting lucky/being in the right place at the right time).