View Full Version : Got my hands on a Shield. Need some advice.
Was at the LGS the other day and brought home a Shield to put through the paces. Took it to the range and love the feel, accuracy, etc. However it auto forwards on 50-75% of mag changes depending on how careful I am, once causing an FTF. It is also impossible to drop the slide via slide stop. I feel that is a needed feature on a defensive gun for one handed manipulation. I would like some advice as to what action to take. I have read many instances of M&Ps going back to S&W to correct the auto forwarding and best case scenario seems to be it comes back happening less frequantly. Is it worth the time and effort sending it back or should I just move on? I've read nothing but positive reviews on the Shields, are M&P owners just accepting the auto forwarding and therefore not mentioning it as an issue with the Shields? If there isn't a high chance the auto forwarding can be fixed by S&W I think I'll just move on. Any info or experiance would be greatly appreciated.
Adjust the angle your slamming the mag in at.....that should eliminate the autoforward. Sounds like your natural tendency is.to.slam the mag home at around 45 degrees which is just perfect for autoforwarding
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunatly it doesnt seem to make much if any difference. Even if I slam the mag in with gun at 90 degrees it still happens. I did observe something that I forgot to mention in the first post. I can see that the top round in the mag is jumping forward when I seat the mag and it doesnt auto forward. Sometimes worse then others. I'm guessing when the auto forward does happen its due to the round jumping forward enough to hit the internal portion of the mag release? Maybe stronger mag springs are needed or is that a follower issue? The mags are pretty hard to fully load so Im not sure what to think of that. Maybe its normal and I just havent noticed it on other guns because I havent had to pay attention.
tappedandtagged
06-01-13, 13:40
The auto forward would bug me. I'd either send it back to S&W or sell it. As for the slide stop not being able to be used to release the slide, that is expected in these small carry guns. I have had 3 small guns, a Kel Tec P11 (double stack 9mm and my favorite small carry), a Ruger LCP and a Taurus .380 (didn't have it very long, traded it for a .38 spl). But, on all three, I couldn't release the slide by use of the slide stop. These small blowback operated guns have too stiff of a recoil spring to make up for the lack of weight in the slide.
A more direct question would be has anybody ever sent thier M&P to S&W for the auto forward issue and had the gun come back free of said issue?
Tennvol12345
06-01-13, 16:28
If it bothers you then send it back, plain and simple. If you can adjust your mag insertion to hit the baseplate flat it should fix your auto forward issue. When I fist started with the MP platform the slide would auto forward all the time, 3 years and 55k rounds later I've all but forgotten about this "feature"
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My Shield is the only one of my M&Ps (sample size of four) that doesn't auto forward when seating the mag at a 45 or otherwise. I can't make it auto forward if I try.
Albeit very stiff, I don't find the slide stop any more difficult to disengage than any other of my M&Ps.
As in previous posts, if it is something you feel S&W needs to address contact them and I'm sure they will send you prepaid parcel to send it in for inspection and/or repair.
Or you could sell it...please contact me via PM as I'm looking to buy another.
Littlelebowski
06-01-13, 16:44
Auto forwarding is not cause for concern on its own. I can make a Glock auto forward pretty easily and M&Ps are very easy to make auto forward.
I can't find the thread after a quick search to attribute proper credit (though I do believe it was Grant who noted this), but the best way I've been able to conceptualize it is... you aren't inserting the magazine into the gun, but pushing the gun onto the magazine. As in, bring mag into workspace, keep stationary as align with magwell, bring gun down onto magazine. For a while I was training TO autoforward, and could reproduce 99.9% of the time. I've since decided against autoforwarding for my purposes and that concept has enabled me to cease it completely with my M&Ps. Again, pretty sure it was Grant, but to whomever it was - a big thanks since it's helped me quite a bit.
I might have been able to overlook it if it hadnt already caused an FTF in a very limited round count. Im glad to hear about a shield that cant be made to auto forward. Pherhaps it is something S&W can fix then. I will probably send it to them if I cant fix it with changing how I insert the mag. Im not sure im following the 45 degree logic. Are we talking about the angle the gun is held at during insertion or the angle the mag goes into the mag well? I was thinking after I got the mag started in the magwell there was only one way it could go from there as the mag well guides it the rest of the way home. Am I missing something?
I can't find the thread after a quick search to attribute proper credit (though I do believe it was Grant who noted this), but the best way I've been able to conceptualize it is... you aren't inserting the magazine into the gun, but pushing the gun onto the magazine. As in, bring mag into workspace, keep stationary as align with magwell, bring gun down onto magazine. For a while I was training TO autoforward, and could reproduce 99.9% of the time. I've since decided against autoforwarding for my purposes and that concept has enabled me to cease it completely with my M&Ps. Again, pretty sure it was Grant, but to whomever it was - a big thanks since it's helped me quite a bit.
This clears things up a bit. So we are talking about the degree of the mag in relation to mag well. Doh! Thats why reading on the internet is no substitute for experiance. I will see if I can practice inserting the mag straight up the mag well vs at an angle when I get home from work tomorrow and see if it eliminates the issue. I havent experianced auto forwarding with any other pistols so I never thought that could be an issue. Thanks for all the responses.
NeoNeanderthal
06-01-13, 17:35
Not sure if this will help, but i used to run M&ps. I had a m&pcompact (.40) and the slide release was so stiff i could not release it with one hand. After some rounds and dry fire practice It got to the point where i could release it just as easily as my glock ones. Dunno if the same can be said about the shield but hope that helps.
SpankMonkey
06-01-13, 17:54
I have two shields, neither one has these problems. I would send it back.
I would probably try and figure out what was causing it before sending it back, but I wouldn't be reluctant to send it back. My Shield auto-forwarded once IIRC and the slide stop was very stiff. I could always drop the slide with the release, but it's a little easier now. Ron
Thanks for the replys. I kinda figured the slide stop would wear in a bit and get easier to use so I'm not real concerned about that. However the more I sit here thinking about having to train against inserting my mags a certain way in order to avoid possible gun induced FTF's the less excited I am about that option. I was taught to grab the mag with my pointer finger along the front of the mag pointing towards the top of the mag, rotate gun so I can see the mag well opening while keeping the gun up in my "work space", then bring mag to gun and insert. I suppose the bring mag to gun part is where the angle comes from and frankly it not only seems slower to do it as refrenced above but also something I might not think of in a high stress situation. Ive been training reloads this way for some time now and Id rather not throw all that out the window.
As LB mentioned many guns do (or can be made to) autoforward. If you aren't happy, by all means send it back. Just to clarify my above post, you aren't necessarily doing anything much differently, more of a slight conceptual difference between:
1. Slamming mag into gun
2. Slamming gun down on mag
For me, while it seems like 1 and 2 would be the same, they are not.
1 = AF
2 = no AF
Regardless of platform, you may experience AFs (though they def occur with much more frequency and ease with M&P for me), you'll have to train TO or NOT TO autoforward with many platforms.
Thanks for the elaboration. It's hard to accept that its my fault when I have not had the issue with Glocks, Sigs, XDm's, 1911's, etc :) Im not saying it cant happen with those platforms just that its never happened to me. I will still try some slight changes as you mentioned and see what happens before I send it in or move it along. Im probably over thinking it but Im a little uneasy with the idea that if I botch the reload angle during a life or death situation I could be left with a possible FTF.
Just a quick update now that I've had the morning to play with the gun. I determined I'm slamming the mag home with excessive force. It doesnt seem to have much to do with the angle but more with the slide lock not being able to keep contact with the slide if I give it enough of a jolt. I'm guessing it wasnt an issue with the other guns I've trained reloads on because they had more mass to absorb the shock and because I never had to think about it I subconciously adopted a more is better attitude when it came to slamming the mag home. This is all just speculation and my opinions of course but it seems the gun was not at fault so I thought I'd share before we put this one to bed. Thanks for all the replys.
Not sure how the auto forward causes a misfeed.
I appreciate the auto forward myself. Makes reloads quicker, and efficient.
Are you making sure all rounds are seated toward the rear of the magazine before you insert it?
Auto forward doesnt bother me at all, because if I have that gun, I damn sure dont have a spare mag.
I just want the gun to fire until empty, then hope my training paid off. ;)
Crow Hunter
06-02-13, 15:44
Not sure how the auto forward causes a misfeed.
I appreciate the auto forward myself. Makes reloads quicker, and efficient.
Are you making sure all rounds are seated toward the rear of the magazine before you insert it?
It isn't a good idea to get into the habit of this.
Eventually, it won't do it when you expect it to, and you don't want to be looking down the sights of a gun with a locked back slide and a puzzled look on your face when you squeeze the trigger and nothing happens when you really needed it to go bang.
Go through the motions and press your slide release at least and build that muscle memory so you will have the "unconscious competence" to get back "in the fight".
It is possible for it to cause a miss feed if the abrupt acceleration that caused the slide release to let go doesn't get it completely out of the way and there is enough drag added to the reloading sequence to slow down the slide's forward travel. Since you are relying on the inertia of the slide lock to let this happen, it isn't as reliable of a method as mechanically pushing it out of the notch with your thumb/finger.
What you are doing is similar in principle to jerking a table cloth out from under dishes on a table. It can be done, if you have the right combination of circumstances, but not something I personally would want to rely on in a potentially life and death situation.
Blackbird90
06-02-13, 17:06
Never had an autoforward situation with mine. Slide release takes some effort but I'm still able to do it with my trigger hand.
ChrisCross
06-03-13, 15:58
I have a M&P 9mm (although it applies to every M&P I've every shot) and when I 1st got it had a lot of AF issues. After changing a few things with how I manipulate the weapon and seat mags I haven't had it AF unless I purposely induced one (very very easy to do with the M&P's...).
I've read posts that say they've sent them back to S&W and they did something (it varies) and they get it back and some don't AF and some still do. I've changed how I do things to stop the AF from happening but can completely understand someone not wanting to change and sending it back/selling it. Sadly it's just the way things currently are with the M&P lineup.
I like the auto forward.....sadly my Shield and MP45mid dont do it but my MP9 does
I appreciate the auto forward myself. Makes reloads quicker, and efficient.This. Why not enjoy having one less step? If I didn't have this happening on my M&P on its own, I'd be seriously wanting to make it do it. Under what circumstances would someone want to put a full mag into a gun and not want to close the slide on it? Even if for some reason mine doesn't auto forward, a quick rack is only a fraction of a second away anyway. I have the gun up to where I can tell what's going on with it so the response won't be delayed any longer than if it I were planning on doing a slide rack in the first place.
Crow Hunter
06-05-13, 07:32
This. Why not enjoy having one less step? If I didn't have this happening on my M&P on its own, I'd be seriously wanting to make it do it. Under what circumstances would someone want to put a full mag into a gun and not want to close the slide on it? Even if for some reason mine doesn't auto forward, a quick rack is only a fraction of a second away anyway. I have the gun up to where I can tell what's going on with it so the response won't be delayed any longer than if it I were planning on doing a slide rack in the first place.
The only problem is if you get in the habit of it happening and then it doesn't when you really need it to.;)
Are you training for that circumstance (by intentionally creating a non-auto-forward condition periodically/randomly) or will you default to your training of expecting it to auto-forward and keep pulling the trigger on a locked open gun that didn't auto-forward?
Can you get it to auto-foward with limited hand strength or with bloody/sweaty hands or when hunkered down in very tight cover?
A little "insurance" by practicing to go through the motions and push the slide release, even after an auto-forward makes sense that way your default response will always drop the slide, even if you don't get an auto-forward.
Think of how many times you have seen people under stress pulling the trigger on a gun that has the slide locked back. You may or may not have the presence of mind at the time to notice anything other than your front sight.
Personally I am not a gun fighter by occupation, so I know I will default to the motions that I most commonly use.
Personal example: I normally use a Benelli M1 for crow hunting. I have a Browning BPS that was my fathers and I take it hunting periodically to remember him. Last time I did so, we got into "swarm" of birds. I shot all 3 of my rounds and I went to reload, by my normal method of dropping a round in the ejection port and hitting the bolt release to get a quick shot off.
I had a, "What the hell, where is the damn ejection port moment" and stood there for what seemed like an eternity while I was being swarmed by crows until my brain kicked in a dropped focus from the crows to what I was doing and remembered, that I had to load from the bottom.
No harm done to me, probably saved at least 1 crows life, but I defaulted to what I had practiced, even though I have been around that particular BPS for much longer than I have owned Benellis. Had I been in a shootout for my life, would that "What the hell" moment been the difference between life or death? Who knows, but that is one of the reasons that even if I had an auto-forward, I personally would practice to still hit the slide release or rack the slide as part of my normal manual of arms, just to be sure. Of course, YMMV.
I like the autoforward. I do still press the slide release though out of habit which should prevent issues should the slide not drop. With full mags mine has always dropped. Have had a few moments with downloaded mags not forwarding but that was expected.
Gary1911A1
06-05-13, 11:51
I have a Glock 17 Third Gen that does the same thing at times. Like others on here I'm in the habit of hitting the slide release anyway. Likely from years of shooting on 1911s' which has condition me to use the slide release.
I can make (or not make) FS M&P40 do it at will. I wish the same for my Shield, however, no matter how hard I try, I can't get it to do it.
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my mp40 does if I fumble the mag in the well and end up slamming in up there hard, but I don't like it too as ive had it jam before (slide started closing before mag was all the way in).
my shield has never done it.
The slide release loosens up a lot after putting rounds down range.
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