Gettin a new upper

[cthompson36]

Hey guys, I'm going to buy myself a new upper as a graduation gift to myself. It's going to be a BCM 16" Carbine upper. It's one that doesnt come with a handguard so I have to get one of those too. I was looking at the midwest industries Gen II 2 piece free float handguard. I want the extended carbine to give me a little more rail real estate on it. Other than BCG and charging handle will this be all I need? Are there any special tools I need? How solid are the 2 piece handguards and does this sound like a good upper? Thanks guys, I know I'm new to this so I just wanted to get some imput so I dont do anything stupid.

[weez440]

that's the same upper I bought and it is great! I put a 2 piece drop in rail in mine and went shooting, no tools needed.

edit: just seen that you are getting a free float so you would have to get the wrench to take it apart.

[Grand58742]

Works with the OEM barrel nut per Bravo Company website, but requires removal of the delta ring per the MI website. So if you are new to the game, I'd have someone install it for you.

I've had a couple of sets of non-free float Midwest Industries I'm happy with. Locks up tight and gave me the mono top rail I was missing with the KAC RAS.

If you are looking at additional "rail real estate," why not go with a mid length and not worry about the free float rails that require modification? Looking at the BCM site, there aren't any manufacturers that make a drop in carbine extended rail system that I saw. All the ones they had listed will require some technical knowledge to install to some extent.

However, MI does a good drop in rail system for the mid length gas system and doesn't require any special tools or knowledge. You get two additional inches of rail space for generally the same price like your advice in this post:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1430573&postcount=59

For a 4-5 time a year self admitted can plinker, why not grab a BCM middy upper, drop in the MI Gen 2 handguards that require zero special tools, save about 70+ bucks as well as 3 ozs on the muzzle end and call it a day? Do you have a specific need for the extra rail spaces or will they go unused like a lot of rail space does?

[cthompson36]

As far as the need for rail space it's due to long arms and liking the vfg as far forward as possible. If I were to go middy what's the difference in rail space compared to what I picked? I'm fairly mechanically inclined so I'm up to a challenge but I don't want to spend a fortune in tools for it.

[Obscenejesster]

Definitely go mid. 16" barrels work better with a middy gas system. If you're looking for a two piece free float then I'd have to recommend a Centurion Arms C4. It's a great rail system that bolts right up to the stock barrel nut. They are going to be a step up from the MI rails.

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[dentron]

Why not buy an upper from BCM with a rail installed? You can also get a BCG & CH at the same time and be ready to go.

[cthompson36]

Well I'm trying to keep the cost down on this one. Would I be better getting a bcm from bcm with a pre installed rail and low profile gas block?

[dentron]

Well I'm trying to keep the cost down on this one. Would I be better getting a bcm from bcm with a pre installed rail and low profile gas block?

Yes! Its doesnt cost any more than buying the parts separately and its assembled by a professional.

[Obscenejesster]

I think you're better off buying the upper minus the handguard, BCG and charging handle if you want it any time soon. I haven't seen any of the BCM uppers with pre installed handgaurds in stock for months.

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[Kokopelli]

Just recently BCM had several rail/handguard mounted uppers in stock. I would recommend getting on their "notify" list for a few that you like.. Cheers.. Ron

[dentron]

I think you're better off buying the upper minus the handguard, BCG and charging handle if you want it any time soon. I haven't seen any of the BCM uppers with pre installed handgaurds in stock for months.

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Really?


http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Centurion-p/bcm-urg-midlw-16-bfh-c4-12.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Centurion-12-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-bfh-c4-12.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-BFH-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Daniel-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh%20ddl12.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh%20vtrx13.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-VTAC-ALPHA-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20vtrx13.htm

[Kokopelli]

Well there-ya go!

[Obscenejesster]

Damn, guess a lot has changed in the past month.

[deadon57]

I would look into a Daniel Defense Omega. Its a drop in two piece free-float handguard. I have a couple on some builds, they have a slim profile which I really like and will give you the extended continuous rail that you are looking for. Slightly pricey, but well worth the price, once on they are very solid.

[MistWolf]

If you really want to save money, get a 16" middy and use MOE hand guards and shoot the rifle until you can save up for the free float tube of your choice. As you're mechanically inclined, you'll be able to figure out how to attach the AFG.

If you still need to stretch further, you can cut down the fsb and install a rifle length free float tube

[ggammell]

Not all of the uppers with pre installed forends come with the option for charging handle and bcg and finding a bcg (matching bcm) is difficult.

[dentron]

Not all of the uppers with pre installed forends come with the option for charging handle and bcg and finding a bcg (matching bcm) is difficult.

Really? Which ones? Were they in stock? Cause the option wont be there if its OOS.

[HighDesert]

If you really want to save money, get a 16" middy and use MOE hand guards and shoot the rifle until you can save up for the free float tube of your choice. As you're mechanically inclined, you'll be able to figure out how to attach the AFG.

If you still need to stretch further, you can cut down the fsb and install a rifle length free float tube

+1

The MOE guards are great and very easy to attach a light, vfg and sling attachment point... Put the savings towards ammo or an Aimpoint.

[cthompson36]

I want free floated because I want to get as much accuracy out of this thing as possible. So I'd like to stick with the FF rails. I think I'll just see what i can get pre installed

[HighDesert]

I want free floated because I want to get as much accuracy out of this thing as possible. So I'd like to stick with the FF rails. I think I'll just see what i can get pre installed

Don't fool yourself - you will most likely not ever notice the difference in accuracy.

ETA - dont mean to be an asshole, but unless you are a seasoned bench rest shooter using match grade ammo and match barrel shooting routinely 100+ yd shots, its just not going to be worth the cash for anything but cool factor.

Youd get much more noticeable accuracy gains from proper trigger and breathing control.

[dentron]

Don't fool yourself - you will most likely not ever notice the difference in accuracy.

ETA - dont mean to be an asshole, but unless you are a seasoned bench rest shooter using match grade ammo and match barrel, its just not going to be worth the cash for anything but cool factor.

I have noticed a difference and I am an ok shot with factory ammo. And with all the great FF rails out there, there's really no reason to not FF. Its only a plus...

[wetidlerjr]

DELETED

[cthompson36]

yeah for my last build just about everybody told me to go free float because it truly helps

[Berserkr556]

If you want a free float rail that doesn't require any modifications to your carbine then buy the Troy/VTAC Delta rail. It's a two peice extended free float rail that requires no mods to your carbine.

[cthompson36]

if i were to do that it would put me over 700$ so i might as well just get the pre installed rail of my choice at that point.

[MistWolf]

I'm not saying don't get a free float tube, I'm saying get the MOEs first as they are very affordable and will get you shooting sooner. Shooting the rifle will let you figure out what free float tube will work for you. If you've got long arms, you may want to go with a longer hand guard than anticipated but you won't know for certain until you get out & shoot

[Rodman24]

You're going to need a rear sight. And if you go with a LPGB you'll need a front sight as well.

[cthompson36]

yeah I understand but I'm in no real hurry to shoot it. I've got another upper already. I'm not going to rush into buying irons for this because I have a scope I'm going to mount on this one and its just for shooting targets. It's not that I don't have the money for a nice rail and have to save for it, I just can't justify a weeks pay for a handguard. So I'm looking at a budget of less than 300$ since I can get a BCM with a pre installed MI handguard for that.

[Grand58742]

You supposedly already have a Palmetto State upper that most on here will say is good to go. May not have the longevity or establishment that BCM, DD, Noveske or Colt has, but they are still relatively new to the market but the few problems thus far (excluding their shipping) have sorted themselves out to the customer's satisfaction. Anyway, they have FN barrels some of which are hammer forged depending on if that was specified when you bought it, the BCGs are typically made of the proper materials, most are properly staked and the majority of them are HPT/MPI...

Why not shoot the shit out of what you have and spend your money on ammo, mags and learn what makes that weapon go? Or spend far less in modifying the upper you have in hand already?

I must be strange, but I don't see the need to rush out and buy something new just because of the roll mark on it when you already have something that is generally regarded as acceptable for your admitted weekend plinker. If you owned an Olympic Arms this would be a different conversation, but PSA gets good marks by those that own them and the few reviews on here are mainly positive.

Now, I'm about to be a dick here...from your previous posts, I get the feeling you really have no idea what you want, but want a BCM with a FF handguard because, well, it's a BCM with a FF handguard. I'm not putting down BCM as I own a couple myself and it's a damn fine rifle. Is it better than Palmetto? Not my place to judge as I've shot both and both worked in my experience. But being a college student so recently out of high school...


I think you should be able to do it yourself too. watch videos, maybe get a book, and you'll be good to go. Im in highschool and I just finished mine friday. What all are you trying to build? assemble a lower or the whole gun?

I'm wondering if you know what you really want or know what you need at this point. Is that a dick question? Yeah, but you tend to bounce around ideas as much as my girlfriend changes her mind about the kitchen decor.

(which does beg another dick question on how exactly you are working on a Masters Degree (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1586723&postcount=41) when you were in high school just last year, but another topic, another thread)

So you are working on a limited budget and you have to look at using what you have as opposed to what you want. I know I had no freakin clue what I wanted at your age besides what looked cool and didn't give two shits about knowing how to run my carbine hard. I've since wised up and figured what works best for me as well as maximizing the efficiency of my BCM, DD and (former) PSA. I spent a lot of money thinking I needed the coolest new toys before trying to figure out if it would be best for me.

My advice, FWIW, save your pennies now or better yet spend it on ammo, mags and a training class, burn out that barrel on that standard PSA with your Yankee Hill hand guard learning how to work the carbine to the best of your ability and then upgrade as money permits and you figure out what works best for you. Don't spend money on things you don't know of yet until you toss a few hundred rounds rounds downrange and have the ability to say with certainty you absolutely abhor the idea of standard length carbine rails.

Take it for what it's worth...

[cthompson36]

My brother uses my account too so thats the masters degree part. My brother and I both bought PSA's last summer for fun guns, and our parents got us scopes for them at Christmas, even though we both had optics already so we both are kind of looking into new uppers to put the scopes on and reach out a little further. as far as a desire for another upper it is so I can have one with a RDS for closer range and one with a scope for further range. its nothing to do with replacing the palmetto, its just getting another and since BCM is only a little more expensive i figured id just splurge and get the best. My Palmetto state upper will be the red dot one since it's probably of lesser quality, I wont notice the accuracy being less at a closer range while the BCM is for further ranges. Also the palmetto upper I've been using with a .22 conversion kit just because neighbors complain about the sound more with .223. I do know I want a longer rail because my brothers PSA has a carbine rail on it and its too short for me to shoot comfortable while mines a middy and i like it much better.

[cthompson36]

another question, some of these tubes don't have rails, but sections that can be attatched where desired. that sounds optimal to me but im curious how they attatch? do you have to take the rail off the gun to install the sections?

[MistWolf]

My brother uses my account too so thats the masters degree part. My brother and I both bought PSA's last summer for fun guns, and our parents got us scopes for them at Christmas, even though we both had optics already so we both are kind of looking into new uppers to put the scopes on and reach out a little further. as far as a desire for another upper it is so I can have one with a RDS for closer range and one with a scope for further range. its nothing to do with replacing the palmetto, its just getting another and since BCM is only a little more expensive i figured id just splurge and get the best. My Palmetto state upper will be the red dot one since it's probably of lesser quality, I wont notice the accuracy being less at a closer range while the BCM is for further ranges. Also the palmetto upper I've been using with a .22 conversion kit just because neighbors complain about the sound more with .223. I do know I want a longer rail because my brothers PSA has a carbine rail on it and its too short for me to shoot comfortable while mines a middy and i like it much better.

Well now, it would have been useful to explain all this from the start and saved all of us some time. Yes, it's a good idea go use a free float tube on a precision AR. Might want to tell your brother to start his own account too avoid confusion

[cthompson36]

sorry didnt know it was important. its not exactly "precision" just a little more than my psa with a red dot. yeah we got it as a joint account because last year we were in the same boat in looking for an AR so it seemed easier to use the same account since we had the same problem. Thanks for the help though guys, I think I have it narrowed to these two uppers. any imput on the different rails is welcomed
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-VTAC-ALPHA-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20vtrx13.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-MI-G2-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-mi-ssg212.htm

[Obscenejesster]

sorry didnt know it was important. its not exactly "precision" just a little more than my psa with a red dot. yeah we got it as a joint account because last year we were in the same boat in looking for an AR so it seemed easier to use the same account since we had the same problem. Thanks for the help though guys, I think I have it narrowed to these two uppers. any imput on the different rails is welcomed
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-VTAC-ALPHA-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20vtrx13.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-MI-G2-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-mi-ssg212.htm

Either one should do. Both rails are mid range systems on the same level. It's going to come down to personal preferences at this point.

[thebarracuda]

First, I'd invest in a good trigger over a FF rail. Once I had a good trigger, match ammo, good glass, then I'd move to the FF rail. Good triggers and ammo will shrink groups faster than a FF at 100 yds. Probably true for most shooters.

[Obscenejesster]

Speaking of good triggers. The ALG QMS is hard to beat for the price. Hell, you'd have a hard time beating it at twice the price.

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[Degs]

sorry didnt know it was important. its not exactly "precision" just a little more than my psa with a red dot. yeah we got it as a joint account because last year we were in the same boat in looking for an AR so it seemed easier to use the same account since we had the same problem. Thanks for the help though guys, I think I have it narrowed to these two uppers. any imput on the different rails is welcomed
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-VTAC-ALPHA-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20vtrx13.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-MI-G2-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-mi-ssg212.htm

I have the vtac but have also handled the MI. The MI uses a proprietary barrel nut, and both feel pretty similar in the hand. They're both great.

[cthompson36]

alright well I've decided to get the troy because it doesn't have the proprietary parts. so my final question is this, is BCM a good company to buy from directly or should I find another dealer to buy it from? If BCM is good to deal with and actually means it when it says in stock il stick to them but I know thats not always the case with some companies. I also hear BCM sends some goodies so thats always a plus

[ggammell]

It is a good company to buy from. You'll get some stickers maybe even a few DVDs and a hat. If it says in stock it's in stock. Prices will be the same as you find from a dealer generally.

[cthompson36]

cool, thats what i wanted to hear. I'm just a little paranoid since my last AR was a PSA. good gun, but they suck at being a store.

[Obscenejesster]

Definitely order directly from BCM. They ship out the same day or the day after. PSA sucks to deal with and their shipping time sucks as well. When I ordered my BCM upper a couple months ago, they sent me a bunch of stickers, a hat and two DVD's. I wear the hat all of the time. My wife doesn't like it too much but I do.:D

[cthompson36]

awesome I'll definitely order from them. I dont have to worry about anyone complaining about the hat, benefit of being single i guess haha

[whiskey lake]

I highly recommend BCM. I would get the upper with BCG and CH but without the rail. You can get a drop in rail and do it yourself cheaper than having BCM do it...in some cases a lot cheaper. Getting a DD or similar is VERY easy to install.