View Full Version : More Testosterone!
Yep, it's another thread on 'test'. I read the other two and I am seeing a few common themes. A lot of people think they have some sort of medical condition. And, they think the solution lies in a pill.
Wrong and wrong.
I was having this discussion with an MD friend of mine. He said if you are still interested in sex you do not have clinical low-T.
Now, if you are overweight, do not have an active lifestyle, eat the Standard American Diet (SAD), do not get enough sleep, and have a poor sex life your testosterone WILL go down. And, you will look and feel like it.
Solution? Do the reverse of the above. Exercise, especially dynamic exercises with heavy weights like olympic lifts and Crossfit for strength. Eat right. This essentially means eliminating processed foods from your diet and eating as your ancestors would have eaten. Go to sleep. If possible, rise and set with the sun. Take naps if possible. At night turn off all of that 'stuff' - the computer, the TV, lights, your iPhone, your tablet, all of it. Get laid. Yep, your body works on feedback mechanisms. As with exercise, your body will adapt to new demands and dedicate metabolic resources to meet the demand. If you are not periodically draining your sack your body WILL dial down your production of testosterone. If you are having trouble getting laid, you may have to take matters into your own hands...
STONE-YARDER
06-02-13, 00:45
No way! That's to simple, I better go see my doctor.:jester: I don't have a doctor BECAUSE I HEAL MYSELF... Taking all Soy products out of your diet is another big plus. Unless Soy is fermented(soy sauce,etc,etc) it is highly toxic... Read the labels folks.
A good chuckle early in the morning is good !! Thanks for the post Armati- :D
Yep, it's another thread on 'test'. I read the other two and I am seeing a few common themes. A lot of people think they have some sort of medical condition.
Low T is an established medical condition. One can argue it's an over stated condition, one can argue a condition that may be treatable by life style changes, etc, etc.
And, they think the solution lies in a pill.
Wrong and wrong.
I was having this discussion with an MD friend of mine. He said if you are still interested in sex you do not have clinical low-T.
Your friend is incorrect. Is HRT/TRT a specialty of his/her? Low T is based on objective and subjective measures. One known subjective symptom is loss of libido yes, but one can't diagnose Low T via such a comment. I do the hormonal consulting for a number of MDs who are clueless on this topic frankly, hence why they have come to me for the info.
Now, if you are overweight, do not have an active lifestyle, eat the Standard American Diet (SAD), do not get enough sleep, and have a poor sex life your testosterone WILL go down. And, you will look and feel like it.
Agreed. There are also other known and yet unknown factors involved that does not fully explain why so many men at ever younger ages are being seen with low T, and theories of xenoestrogens found in foods and other sources, to sociological changes, to meds, etc. have been suggested.
For sure, increased body fat, lack of exercise, nutrient deficiencies (zinc, mag, D3, etc), metabolic syndrome, etc will generally = low T and general fu*3cked up hormone profiles in general.
Solution? Do the reverse of the above. Exercise, especially dynamic exercises with heavy weights like olympic lifts and Crossfit for strength. Eat right. This essentially means eliminating processed foods from your diet and eating as your ancestors would have eaten.
Go to sleep. If possible, rise and set with the sun. Take naps if possible. At night turn off all of that 'stuff' - the computer, the TV, lights, your iPhone, your tablet, all of it. Get laid. Yep, your body works on feedback mechanisms. As with exercise, your body will adapt to new demands and dedicate metabolic resources to meet the demand. If you are not periodically draining your sack your body WILL dial down your production of testosterone. If you are having trouble getting laid, you may have to take matters into your own hands...
That general advice is true and solid. I discuss known causes of what suppresses T in a vid HERE (http://www.brinkzone.com/general-health/boosting-testosterone/) and the general advice to fixing it similar.
However, you are also ignoring the reality that men doing all those things can and do have low T (with both the objective tests and subjective symptoms) and or hormonal dysfunction. Some times it's medically related, age related, some times it's for reason's that simply can't be figured out (see above comments on that) and they notice 180 differences when treated. Some times it's due to primary, some times it's secondary, hypogonadism.
I deal with, read blood work of, consult to, etc many men (and or their docs) who do essentially everything they should, and they have low T with objective and subjective issues of low T.
I also know a large - and growing - number of ex mill with low T and or other hormonal issues (usually IGF-1) who have been active and generally healthy and not old enough that their hormones should be so screwed up, but their they are.
They suffer greatly until it occurs to someone to see what's up with their hormones.
There's some interesting theories for that, ranging from exposure to various chems and compounds when deployed, to damage to their HPTA by BLAST, and others. The reason is unclear at this time.
I agree totally that for many, improvements in life style choices can help considerably and should be first line "treatment" but the rest of your comments are off base and frankly, not respectful to a lot of suffering men out there.
Respectfully.
No way! That's to simple, I better go see my doctor.:jester: I don't have a doctor BECAUSE I HEAL MYSELF... Taking all Soy products out of your diet is another big plus. Unless Soy is fermented(soy sauce,etc,etc) it is highly toxic... Read the labels folks.
Data please. Show me a modern in vivo human study where soy was shown to be "highly toxic." If one says "Stag Arms makes the best AR" people will explain why that's BS, and tell you to stay in your own lane.
No, I don't recommend large amounts of soy to men, but that's a typical nonsense comment of fear mongering about soy, and it's simply incorrect.
Make random comments on health, fitness, nutrition, supported by nothing but pseudo scientific nonsense based on no background for the conversation, and it's all good. :rolleyes:
Agreed. There are also other known and yet unknown factors involved that does not fully explain why so many men at ever younger ages are being seen with low T.....
A generation of kids raised by their mothers, lack of sports growing up, too much Xbox, iPhones, and skinny jeans are the most likely cause.
My friend is a trauma surgeon who works at Walter Reed and has spent time as a USSOCOM surgeon. He always has barrel chested freedom fighters asking him for steroids. This is his stock answer.
All the same, I hear what your are saying. But I am going to call BS on a lot of it. A lifetime spent as a couch potato and now you have low-T? As you know, most soldiers are not really that fit. Many struggle with the basic APFT. That is to say nothing of the huge bulk of the civilian population that is even less fit. Most people go to work and sit in a car. They get to work and they sit some more. Then they go home so they can do even more sitting.
This is an epidemic because never in human history has such a large population been so sedentary with such a poor diet for most of their lifetime. I would really like to see some serious demographic data on this.
A generation of kids raised by their mothers, lack of sports growing up, too much Xbox, iPhones, and skinny jeans are the most likely cause.
Again, we need to be careful when make such statements without the hard data to support them. Yes, possible factor to be sure, but there's also clearly other factors involved, some which (such as exposure to xenoestrogens, and other chems) not part of the general pussifucation of young men so common today. However, there's far more to it then that, and the data and clinical experience supports that reality.
My friend is a trauma surgeon who works at Walter Reed and has spent time as a USSOCOM surgeon. He always has barrel chested freedom fighters asking him for steroids. This is his stock answer.
All the same, I hear what your are saying. But I am going to call BS on a lot of it. A lifetime spent as a couch potato and now you have low-T?
And those who have been active most of their lives who are seemingly healthy 20-40 year olds with T of an 90 year old man?
As you know, most soldiers are not really that fit. Many struggle with the basic APFT. That is to say nothing of the huge bulk of the civilian population that is even less fit. Most people go to work and sit in a car. They get to work and they sit some more. Then they go home so they can do even more sitting.
This is an epidemic because never in human history has such a large population been so sedentary with such a poor diet for most of their lifetime. I would really like to see some serious demographic data on this.
There's a lot of things, type II diabetes being the most obvious perhaps, that support that fact to be sure.
There's a number of known factors that may lead to X disease, and there's some unknown factors.
Some are well known and have very high confidence as to who will fall where in terms of risks, and some, not so much.
The known risk factors to low T don't account for a large number of men, ever growing, with low T at this time, and as mentioned, a number of hypothesis have been suggested.
My hunch is, like many things, it's a combination of them and multifactorial in a large % of cases. In some cases, the cause is quite clear, but not in most in my experience which is extensive.
Yep, it's another thread on 'test'. I read the other two and I am seeing a few common themes. A lot of people think they have some sort of medical condition. And, they think the solution lies in a pill.
Wrong and wrong.
I was having this discussion with an MD friend of mine. He said if you are still interested in sex you do not have clinical low-T.
Now, if you are overweight, do not have an active lifestyle, eat the Standard American Diet (SAD), do not get enough sleep, and have a poor sex life your testosterone WILL go down. And, you will look and feel like it.
Solution? Do the reverse of the above. Exercise, especially dynamic exercises with heavy weights like olympic lifts and Crossfit for strength. Eat right. This essentially means eliminating processed foods from your diet and eating as your ancestors would have eaten. Go to sleep. If possible, rise and set with the sun. Take naps if possible. At night turn off all of that 'stuff' - the computer, the TV, lights, your iPhone, your tablet, all of it. Get laid. Yep, your body works on feedback mechanisms. As with exercise, your body will adapt to new demands and dedicate metabolic resources to meet the demand. If you are not periodically draining your sack your body WILL dial down your production of testosterone. If you are having trouble getting laid, you may have to take matters into your own hands...
This is exactly what people think. I maintained a healthy diet, i lift 5 days a week, interval cardio training 4 days a week, i am super active and i lost the desire to have sex which strained my relationship with my wife, it also took a year of trying for us to finally get pregnant.
For you to come on this forum and say i can increase my test through your mentioned process it really bothers me.
By the way are you a health professional? What makes you qualified to make these suggestions or assumptions?
This is exactly what people think. I maintained a healthy diet, i lift 5 days a week, interval cardio training 4 days a week,
You may have been severely over training BTW, which is also hard on the hormones.
"After identifying which hormones take a nose dive in response to high levels of stress, etc and which are correlated to performance, there may be an effort to alter/maintain those hormones which could allow SOF/Tactical LE to extend/improve their performance operationally speaking. Nutritional interventions are being examined (some of which I covered in my articles here) as well as other possible interventions that could be of considerable benefit to members of the military and law enforcement community, specifically – but not limited to – SOF and Tactical LE."
Cont:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=46479&highlight=igf-1
However, hormones usually bounce back if one reduces training volumes and or intensity and adjust nutrition/cals to meet requirements.
But not always. Some of the worst hormone profiles you will see are in ultra marathon runners/ultra endurance athletes of various types who have fuc&$ed their endocrine system good and it never bounces back
I actually thought that over training could be a possibility so I changed my workouts to isolate muscle groups and limited cardio to interval training. I knew that lifting will actually lower test but like you said it should rebound. I took a week off and only did pushups and crunches for a week when I had blood levels checked and test levels were low.
I guess I was a little offended that this guy made a very broad generalized statement saying anyone could improve their test levels to normal with lifestyle changes. You can't change genetics with diet and exercise.
I actually thought that over training could be a possibility so I changed my workouts to isolate muscle groups and limited cardio to interval training. I knew that lifting will actually lower test but like you said it should rebound. I took a week off and only did pushups and crunches for a week when I had blood levels checked and test levels were low.
I guess I was a little offended that this guy made a very broad generalized statement saying anyone could improve their test levels to normal with lifestyle changes. You can't change genetics with diet and exercise.
That is true. He makes a legit point, just overly generalized and fails to account for guys like yourself who do exist, and in larger numbers (per comments above) than one might expect. Reasons for that are unclear at this time.
Research Article - Serum free testosterone, leptin and soluble leptin receptor changes in a 6-week strength-training programme
Strength training is usually associated with a reduction in fat mass and with muscle hypertrophy. The aim of the present study was to examine whether the serum free leptin index (FLI), measured by the molar excess of solubleleptin receptor (sOB-R) over leptin, is increased by 6 weeks of strength training. Eighteen male, physical education students were randomly assigned to two groups: a strength-training (n 12) and a control group (n 6). Body composition (lean body mass and body fat)determined by dual-energyX-rayabsorptiometry(DXA),muscleperformanceand leptin, sOB-R, total testosterone and free testosterone concentrations were determined before and after training. Fat mass was reduced by 1 kg with strength training (P < 0·05). Lean body mass of trained extremities was increased by 3 % (P < 0·05), while the concentration of free testosterone in serum was reduced by 17 % (P < 0·05) after training
However test should rebound and be at normal levels sometime after lifting.
The way i understand it is like a car gas tank. You press the gas (lift) and you use your test. You refill your tank when you eat right and sleep.
If i am wrong then i am sure Mr. Brink will correct me.
Clearly america needs more processed sugars, more pills, and more IRS agents. This thread proves it.
Can we get more laws and regulations whilst we are at it? We could probably need more of those things too.
Research Article - Serum free testosterone, leptin and soluble leptin receptor changes in a 6-week strength-training programme
Strength training is usually associated with a reduction in fat mass and with muscle hypertrophy. The aim of the present study was to examine whether the serum free leptin index (FLI), measured by the molar excess of solubleleptin receptor (sOB-R) over leptin, is increased by 6 weeks of strength training. Eighteen male, physical education students were randomly assigned to two groups: a strength-training (n 12) and a control group (n 6). Body composition (lean body mass and body fat)determined by dual-energyX-rayabsorptiometry(DXA),muscleperformanceand leptin, sOB-R, total testosterone and free testosterone concentrations were determined before and after training. Fat mass was reduced by 1 kg with strength training (P < 0·05). Lean body mass of trained extremities was increased by 3 % (P < 0·05), while the concentration of free testosterone in serum was reduced by 17 % (P < 0·05) after training
However test should rebound and be at normal levels sometime after lifting.
The way i understand it is like a car gas tank. You press the gas (lift) and you use your test. You refill your tank when you eat right and sleep.
If i am wrong then i am sure Mr. Brink will correct me.
The data on this tends to be all over the place, so I don't tend to put a lot of stock in it. The dip in T post workout is probably due to increases target tissue uptake of T, so levels in serum may go down, because it's now being used by target tissues you just worked.
If one wants an accurate base line of their T status, best not to get it tested within a few hours of a tough workout, but that's about all I really take away from that type of study personally.
That they gained LBM and strength and lost BF, is not indicative of having your T drop systemically vs. an acute response post workout.
Clearly america needs more processed sugars, more pills, and more IRS agents. This thread proves it.
Can we get more laws and regulations whilst we are at it? We could probably need more of those things too.
Well, that was amazing unproductive of you. I'm sure the response to my dropping such a comment into another thread - equally unrelated to the actual topic of the thread - would go over really well with members. Thanx :rolleyes:
Yep, it's another thread on 'test'. I read the other two and I am seeing a few common themes. A lot of people think they have some sort of medical condition. And, they think the solution lies in a pill.
Wrong and wrong.
I was having this discussion with an MD friend of mine. He said if you are still interested in sex you do not have clinical low-T.
Now, if you are overweight, do not have an active lifestyle, eat the Standard American Diet (SAD), do not get enough sleep, and have a poor sex life your testosterone WILL go down. And, you will look and feel like it.
Solution? Do the reverse of the above. Exercise, especially dynamic exercises with heavy weights like olympic lifts and Crossfit for strength. Eat right. This essentially means eliminating processed foods from your diet and eating as your ancestors would have eaten. Go to sleep. If possible, rise and set with the sun. Take naps if possible. At night turn off all of that 'stuff' - the computer, the TV, lights, your iPhone, your tablet, all of it. Get laid. Yep, your body works on feedback mechanisms. As with exercise, your body will adapt to new demands and dedicate metabolic resources to meet the demand. If you are not periodically draining your sack your body WILL dial down your production of testosterone. If you are having trouble getting laid, you may have to take matters into your own hands...
Thought this article was good support for your overall contention:
Declining Testosterone Levels in Men Not Part of Normal Aging (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120623144944.htm)
June 23, 2012 — A new study finds that a drop in testosterone levels over time is more likely to result from a man's behavioral and health changes than by aging. The study results will be presented June 25 at The Endocrine Society's 94th Annual Meeting in Houston.
"Declining testosterone levels are not an inevitable part of the aging process, as many people think," said study co-author Gary Wittert, MD, professor of medicine at the University of Adelaide in Adelaide, Australia. "Testosterone changes are largely explained by smoking behavior and changes in health status, particularly obesity and depression."
Many older men have low levels of the sex hormone testosterone, but the cause is not known. Few population-based studies have tracked changes in testosterone levels among the same men over time, as their study did, Wittert said.
In this study, supported by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia, the authors analyzed testosterone measurements in more than 1,500 men who had measurements taken at two clinic visits five years apart. All blood testosterone samples underwent testing at the same time for each time point, according to Wittert.
After the researchers excluded from the analysis any men who had abnormal lab values or who were taking medications or had medical conditions known to affect hormones, they included 1,382 men in the data analysis. Men ranged in age from 35 to 80 years, with an average age of 54.
On average, testosterone levels did not decline significantly over five years; rather, they decreased less than 1 percent each year, the authors reported. However, when the investigators analyzed the data by subgroups, they found that certain factors were linked to lower testosterone levels at five years than at the beginning of the study.
"Men who had declines in testosterone were more likely to be those who became obese, had stopped smoking or were depressed at either clinic visit," Wittert said. "While stopping smoking may be a cause of a slight decrease in testosterone, the benefit of quitting smoking is huge."
Past research has linked depression and low testosterone. This hormone is important for many bodily functions, including maintaining a healthy body composition, fertility and sex drive. "It is critical that doctors understand that declining testosterone levels are not a natural part of aging and that they are most likely due to health-related behaviors or health status itself," he said.
Unmarried men in the study had greater testosterone reductions than did married men. Wittert attributed this finding to past research showing that married men tend to be healthier and happier than unmarried men. "Also, regular sexual activity tends to increase testosterone," he explained.
The study findings were presented by Andre Araujo, PhD, who was a visiting professor at the University of Adelaide and is vice president of epidemiology at New England Research Institutes, Watertown, Mass.
The data on this tends to be all over the place, so I don't tend to put a lot of stock in it. The dip in T post workout is probably due to increases target tissue uptake of T, so levels in serum may go down, because it's now being used by target tissues you just worked.
If one wants an accurate base line of their T status, best not to get it tested within a few hours of a tough workout, but that's about all I really take away from that type of study personally.
That they gained LBM and strength and lost BF, is not indicative of having your T drop systemically vs. an acute response post workout.
So it sounds like its nothing to worry about then? I just get frosty whenever I see a statement like "doing XYZ lowers your testosterone."
So it sounds like its nothing to worry about then? I just get frosty whenever I see a statement like "doing XYZ lowers your testosterone."
End of the day it's the results that matter and you can't stop working out anyway, so a moot issue in my view.
Low T in people who workout a lot can be a case of over training, usually seen in people doing a lot of endurance work, often combined with low cals to boot.
Studies show guys coming out of SF school for example with have very low T levels, but it's transient and comes back to normal once they get some rest and food.
Some interesting studies of interest:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=46479&highlight=igf-1
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