View Full Version : M&P 9c mag' follower/catch problem
Good evening,
I bought a new M&P 9c, which has a problem. I've searched this site under several parameters but haven't found anything.
The problem I have is that the magazine follower doesn't engage the tab on the slide catch. The tab lands to the left of the follower, which holds the mag' in place when empty. When the mag' is inserted into the well and seated I can push the follower down and to the left and it will move under the tab but as soon as I release pressure it pops back off.
From what I can see it looks like the tab that protrudes from the slide catch "yoke" (not sure what the proper part description is) wasn't bent at the rear flush to the yoke and therefore doesn't protrude far enough into the well, nor at the right angle to engage the follower. Additionally, the follower in both mag's tilts away from the tab.
Does anyone have any experience with the problem? What is the cause and how is it fixed? I have contacted S&W and they have emailed saying that an RMA is pending but I'd like to know more before I send it back in.
I've attached a picture of the problem.
Thank you for any help or insight.
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/13/mpmagcatch001.jpg
Leonidas24
06-03-13, 03:25
I don't mean to cause offense but have you shot the gun yet to ensure there is even a problem? Both my M&P9C and FS appear the same as the photograph you provided, but neither have experienced a failure to lock back in the past year I've had them.
edit: When the mag is inserted, does the slide release lever raise as it should? If so, when the slide release lever is depressed, does the magazine follower depress along with it? To give a solid test, try retracting the slide to the rear with an unloaded magazine. If it locks to the rear, then it is functioning correctly. Load a magazine with 1 round; fire said round. Repeat 10 times. If the slide locks to the rear 10 times, then it is functioning correctly. Go shoot the gun.
None taken Leonidas24- Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have done so to confirm.
ETA: In talking with customer service the gentleman said that the gun definitely had to go back to them as it wasn't right. I will update the thread upon its return for future reference.
I don't mean to cause offense but have you shot the gun yet to ensure there is even a problem? Both my M&P9C and FS appear the same as the photograph you provided, but neither have experienced a failure to lock back in the past year I've had them.
edit: When the mag is inserted, does the slide release lever raise as it should? If so, when the slide release lever is depressed, does the magazine follower depress along with it? To give a solid test, try retracting the slide to the rear with an unloaded magazine. If it locks to the rear, then it is functioning correctly. Load a magazine with 1 round; fire said round. Repeat 10 times. If the slide locks to the rear 10 times, then it is functioning correctly. Go shoot the gun.
It's their new follower. Crap design if you ask me.
Thank you for the reply Doug- Is there anything S&W will do to rectify the situation that warrants sending it in in your estimation? My sear block has some movement that is affecting the trigger so I was going to send it in for that too, but I can bed it and adjust the trigger myself if S&W doesn't have a "fix" for the mag' issue. Given that it's a new gun I figured it'd go for both items.
It's their new follower. Crap design if you ask me.
Thank you for the reply Doug- Is there anything S&W will do to rectify the situation that warrants sending it in in your estimation? My sear block has some movement that is affecting the trigger so I was going to send it in for that too, but I can bed it and adjust the trigger myself if S&W doesn't have a "fix" for the mag' issue. Given that it's a new gun I figured it'd go for both items.
I doubt they'll have a "fix" for their brand new follower. ;)
Buy some of the older ones if you can.
As for the sear block movement, all the "thumb safety model frames" do this, for years now, just some more then others.
OK great. Good point. Thank you again for the quick reply. One last question?
Not uncommon then for sear block movement to affect the trigger either? If I ride the safety as I normally do, no issues on the trigger. Breaks cleanly with little over-travel. However, if I don't, the trigger breaks at the stop in a mushy fashion and frequently not at all.
I doubt they'll have a "fix" for their brand new follower. ;)
Buy some of the older ones if you can.
As for the sear block movement, all the "thumb safety model frames" do this, for years now, just some more then others.
OK great. Good point. Thank you again for the quick reply. One last question?
Not uncommon then for sear block movement to affect the trigger either? If I ride the safety as I normally do, no issues on the trigger. Breaks cleanly with little over-travel. However, if I don't, the trigger breaks at the stop in a mushy fashion and frequently not at all.
No, it's not uncommon.
I would suggest opening up the loop on the trigger bar a tiny bit to get it to engage earlier with the sear so that even if your thumb isn't on the thumb safety it still goes bang.
Will do. Thank you again for your replies and help.
All the best to you.
No, it's not uncommon.
I would suggest opening up the loop on the trigger bar a tiny bit to get it to engage earlier with the sear so that even if your thumb isn't on the thumb safety it still goes bang.
cheapsandwich
06-05-13, 23:12
I had the same problem with my 9c a few months ago and the replaced the followers.
They sent me some old ones and the problems went away, all of the mags that I've bought since work fine.
Might have a out of spec batch.
When I bought my M&P .45 in November, the mags soon had issues. I discovered that the mag followers had been installed on the wrong end of the springs. I bought some used mags from CDNN, and these had the same problem.
Thank you cheapsandwich. I have ordered another follower from Brownell's to see if it is different. I think I'll try S&W to see if they will send me a couple of the older ones too.
Thanks Williejc- I pulled my mag's apart and looked but I will check again to be sure.
I had the same problem with my 9c a few months ago and the replaced the followers.
They sent me some old ones and the problems went away, all of the mags that I've bought since work fine.
Might have a out of spec batch.
When I bought my M&P .45 in November, the mags soon had issues. I discovered that the mag followers had been installed on the wrong end of the springs. I bought some used mags from CDNN, and these had the same problem.
Instead of making a new thread I thought Id just bump this one. I just got my new M&P 9c in from G&R(thanks for the great price and fast shipping Grant). It's having the same exact problem listed by the OP in this thread. I found another thread with somebody having the same problem but nothing about if it was fixed by S&W or some other way. I am going to call S&W in the morning but I'm less then excited to send them my brand new gun if I can fix it myself. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Is there a known reason as to why S&W changed follower designs? I'll be first to admit I don't understand why parts that I thought were working just fine get changed for apparently no reason, and then the improved designs don't work.
Good question :) Here are some pics in case the OPs pic isn't sufficient. I tried removing the follower to make sure it wasn't the mag body getting hung up on the trigger bar and it's definitely the follower/slide stop contact that is the problem. I will post what S&W says tomorrow.
http://i41.tinypic.com/mw7foz.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/15hy2af.jpg
When I bought my M&P .45 in November, the mags soon had issues. I discovered that the mag followers had been installed on the wrong end of the springs. I bought some used mags from CDNN, and these had the same problem.
When I bought two of the older ones from a LGS, the followers were actually in the magazine backwards. :confused:
Thanks for the bump. My apologies for not following up on this. Doug's reply was spot-on. I did end up sending the gun back to S&W as I was curious to see what they would do. S&W's fix was to install the old-style followers that have a much more "squared-up" follower when viewing from the top so that the tab catches the mag'. They are black in color. I recently bought two more mag's from Midway, which were full-size (17rnd) and I had to replace the follower on these too in order to make them work. I'll try to post pictures later today. I have no idea why the follower was changed especially given the problems in brand-new guns.
Thanks for the bump. My apologies for not following up on this. Doug's reply was spot-on. I did end up sending the gun back to S&W as I was curious to see what they would do. S&W's fix was to install the old-style followers that have a much more "squared-up" follower when viewing from the top so that the tab catches the mag'. They are black in color. I recently bought two more mag's from Midway, which were full-size (17rnd) and I had to replace the follower on these too in order to make them work. I'll try to post pictures later today. I have no idea why the follower was changed especially given the problems in brand-new guns.
Thanks for the info. I'm on hold with S&W right now. Did you have to order the replacement black followers for the 17 rounders from S&W? I've read they made the follower changes through the years to improve durability of the follower and feeding. I'm not real excited about using a follower S&W deemed unworthy and having to source them for any new mags or for maintenance at that. I will see what the S&W rep has to say, if I'm ok with going to the old followers after they explain why they changed them maybe they will sell me some in bulk. Maybe there is another fix option. I will update if I ever get a live person on the phone.
It's on its way to S&W. I decided I'm not OK with having to use older gen followers to make my new gun perform as it should. There was a reason they changed the followers and I don't want to deal with those old problems down the road. I am going to make sure and include in my note to the smith that old gen parts are not an acceptable fix for me and see what comes of it. I'm sure the new gen followers must work in some/most guns and because of the smaller base for the slide lock tab to come in contact with the acceptable tolerances are smaller causing some guns to not function correctly if outside of that tolerance level. That's my guess, we will see what S&W says.
[QUOTE=greatnw;1774308] There was a reason they changed the followers and I don't want to deal with those old problems down the road. I am going to make sure and include in my note to the smith that old gen parts are not an acceptable fix for me and see what comes of it. [QUOTE]
I am curious, did S&W say why they changed the followers, or what the old problems were?
Beside the accuracy/barrel unlocking/timing issues, and the indistinct trigger reset concerns, I do not recall hearing of any follower related issues with the M&Ps, nor have I suffered any with any of my M&Ps.
I am curious, did S&W say why they changed the followers, or what the old problems were?
Beside the accuracy/barrel unlocking/timing issues, and the indistinct trigger reset concerns, I do not recall hearing of any follower related issues with the M&Ps, nor have I suffered any with any of my M&Ps.
The rep didn't know, he gave me the standard "the gun has been constantly improved upon" type company line. There have been 3-4 generations of followers from what I can tell, early generations had issues with premature wear/breakage and in some instances feeding issues. That's what my research came up with but I don't know the official reasons nor did the rep. I wouldn't think they would change it 3-4 times if there were no issues though. Maybe somebody like Grant would know as he deals a lot with S&W?
You're welcome Greatnw. I did have to buy the old followers. When I initially ordered them I got a couple extras for any new mag's. I intend to call S&W again and see if they will send me more given the issue I have. Interestingly, I went through four rep's before sending the gun back trying to get someone to verify the issue. The fourth person was a gentleman who said he had just had another call with the same problem. The other three didn't know of any issues. Frankly, I wish someone would have acknowledged the problem, so that arrangements can be made to send old followers to new gun buyers, especially as I intend to buy more mag's. I'll try S&W again next week and post my findings again.
Thanks for the info. I'm on hold with S&W right now. Did you have to order the replacement black followers for the 17 rounders from S&W? I've read they made the follower changes through the years to improve durability of the follower and feeding. I'm not real excited about using a follower S&W deemed unworthy and having to source them for any new mags or for maintenance at that. I will see what the S&W rep has to say, if I'm ok with going to the old followers after they explain why they changed them maybe they will sell me some in bulk. Maybe there is another fix option. I will update if I ever get a live person on the phone.
You're welcome Greatnw. I did have to buy the old followers. When I initially ordered them I got a couple extras for any new mag's. I intend to call S&W again and see if they will send me more given the issue I have. Interestingly, I went through four rep's before sending the gun back trying to get someone to verify the issue. The fourth person was a gentleman who said he had just had another call with the same problem. The other three didn't know of any issues. Frankly, I wish someone would have acknowledged the problem, so that arrangements can be made to send old followers to new gun buyers, especially as I intend to buy more mag's. I'll try S&W again next week and post my findings again.
Did any of the reps you spoke with mention why they have made the changes to the followers?
Did any of the reps you spoke with mention why they have made the changes to the followers?
They did not, however I haven't spoken to anyone at S&W since the gun's return. I'm hoping that when I call again with "proof from the factory" that the mag' follower is the issue I may be able to get further.
I look forward to hearing what S&W tells you about the follower.
In my searching I came across this blog/article on the issue:
http://www.triangletactical.net/2013/09/10/sw-mp-9mm-magazine-follower-design-change/
I think this may be what poster #2 in this thread might have been trying to get across but it didnt click until I read the above link.
Function checked my gun again but with ammo vs empty mag and it all works as it should. Inserting the empty mag in the gun applies enough force to cause the follower to slip past the tab. However the follower coming up after the last round does not apply enough pressure and the mag drops free everytime as well as locking the slide back on empty.
I will be running some live fire drills to test function but I dont suspect any issues now and if all goes well wont be sending it back. The follower could be better designed to make more contact with the tab but it appears a none issue in real use situations.
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