View Full Version : Sen Lautenberg Dead
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57587322/sen-frank-lautenberg-d-n.j-dies-at-age-89/
From a political perspective, good riddance.
From a personal perspective, may he RIP and may his family be comforted by their loss.
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Crow Hunter
06-03-13, 10:44
I am glad he is out of the Senate.
But I am not glad he passed.
I would rather he had been voted out of office, as his replacement could be worse.
I am glad he is out of the Senate.
But I am not glad he passed.
I would rather he had been voted out of office, as his replacement could be worse.
Supposedly he wasn't going to be running again in 2014 anyway.
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No joke; in 2000 I applied to him and Rep. Rush Holt for nominations to the USNA.
Rush Holt called me in for an interview, Lautenberg had an aid call my mother and ask how much she and my father were willing to donate to his re-election campaign...
Unfortunately I had to pull my application because we did not get our citizenship in time, but in 2001 Rush Holt gave me a nomination and called me personally to tell me, I did not even apply to Lautenberg.
Good riddance to Frank...
They say if you have nothing nice to say about a person...don't say anything. So I have nothing to say.
Heavy Metal
06-03-13, 11:43
I wish him no ill will in the next life but I am glad he is no longer in this one doing damage.
does this mean that the train station bearing his name will now be a "memorial" train station?
Alpha Sierra
06-03-13, 11:48
An enemy of freedom deserves no rest in life or after it.
I'll say it - good riddance. Death to Tyrants.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57587322/sen-frank-lautenberg-d-n.j-dies-at-age-89/
From a political perspective, good riddance.
From a personal perspective, may he RIP and may his family be comforted by their loss.
This post has class, and it's tenor is my hope for this thread.
His name was on more bad legislation than you can shake a stick at.
PA PATRIOT
06-03-13, 15:37
Another career politician that put his own agenda over those he was elected to serve.
They say if you have nothing nice to say about a person...don't say anything. So I have nothing to say.
^^^^^
Army Chief
06-03-13, 16:53
From a political perspective, good riddance.
From a personal perspective, may he RIP and may his family be comforted by their loss.
Concur with Skintop.
Class act.
AC
MountainRaven
06-03-13, 18:43
Requiescat in Pace, Senator.
Say what you want, he was the last US Senator to have served in the Second World War and for that fact alone, his death marks the end of an era.
An enemy of freedom deserves no rest in life or after it.
I hate to speak bad of the dead, but his legislative legacy is a disgrace. Was he a traitor to the the Constitution or was he just fulfilling the wishes of the fools that elected him?
Alaskapopo
06-03-13, 20:24
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57587322/sen-frank-lautenberg-d-n.j-dies-at-age-89/
From a political perspective, good riddance.
From a personal perspective, may he RIP and may his family be comforted by their loss.
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Don't agree all the time but you did show a lot of class with this post. People need to separate politics from the people. Good people can have bad politics and bad people can support good politics.
Pat
Don't agree all the time but you did show a lot of class with this post. People need to separate politics from the people. Good people can have bad politics and bad people can support good politics.
Pat
There is a line that is crossed by some politicians, law enforcement and other government employees who have authority over the lives of others. And once you cross that line you can no longer separate those actions from the person.
Army Chief
06-03-13, 21:13
Was he a traitor to the the Constitution or was he just fulfilling the wishes of the fools that elected him?
I'm about as far away from the late Senator politically as it is possible to be; that said, I think we have to keep in mind that, like many of his generation, his views were doubtless influenced by the Great Depression, the New Deal, the Marshall Plan and the Civil Rights Movement. Little wonder that he should have felt that government is more often a part of the solution than it is a part of the problem.
As to the quoted post above, I think the latter portion probably captures the truth rather well. For every one of us that is relieved to see an ideological adversary removed from power, there are probably at least three or four folks who felt he was a faithful and consistent representative of their views, and who genuinely mourn the loss of his leadership.
We ought not lose sight of the fact that men like this cannot take or hold office without the support of a majority of voting citizens; as such, much of the blame rightly falls upon We The People. That doesn't necessarily make me feel any more charitable toward the departed, but I see little sense in turning our ire against a man whose actions were entirely predictable before he ever took office. The real problem is with the folks that put -- and kept -- him there.
AC
Alpha Sierra
06-03-13, 21:14
People need to separate politics from the people.
That ship has sailed.
They say if you have nothing nice to say about a person...don't say anything. So I have nothing to say.
Ditto.
Alaskapopo
06-03-13, 21:51
That ship has sailed.
It has not. Human decency and tolerance are alive and well. Just unfortunately not with political extremes on both the right and the left.
Pat
We ought not lose sight of the fact that men like this cannot take or hold office without the support of a majority of voting citizens; as such, much of the blame rightly falls upon We The People. That doesn't necessarily make me feel any more charitable toward the departed, but I see little sense in turning our ire against a man whose actions were entirely predictable before he ever took office. The real problem is with the folks that put -- and kept -- him there.
AC
I would agree 100% that the folks are the issue..IF... We have an efficient representative government composed of forthright public servants free from pre-conceived agendas.
Sure, the folks are knowingly or unknowingly complicit, but not the entire root of the problem. They can be fed a story and manipulated. It's not entirely their fault.
For every one of us that is relieved to see an ideological adversary removed from power, there are probably at least three or four folks who felt he was a faithful and consistent representative of their views, and who genuinely mourn the loss of his leadership.
I'm sure the rest of the gun-grabbers and nanny-statists are all misty-eyed.
Robb Jensen
06-04-13, 05:31
They say if you have nothing nice to say about a person...don't say anything. So I have nothing to say.
Exactly...Nil nisi bonum.
David Pennington
06-04-13, 08:15
Here's my train of thought on Lautenburg, McCarthy, et al.
They are actively working to make me and pretty much all of my family and friends felons. If they have have their way and their various gun control schemes pass most of us currently productive, law abiding citizens would become instant felons. We would be forced to either give up a core component of our belief system by surrendering our arms, doing nothing but fearing constant arrest and confinement, or physically resisting facing arrest, confinement, or death.
Long story short, the McCarthys and Lautenburgs of the world are actively working to imprison or possibly even kill my family, my friends, and myself. They wouldn't do it personally but they would use the governments ability to exert physical force to imprison or, were we to resist, kill us. They aren't just actively campaigning to ban firearms, they are actively campaigning to physically destroy the lives of those people that I care most about. For a good, productive, law-abiding citizen a felony conviction and prison sentence is a destructive as a bullet---your life is either destroyed or over.
For this reason I'll rejoice and feel a sigh of relief every time my enemy and the enemy of those I care about is diminished whether by retirement, illness, or death. Every time they are diminished we are one man stronger and there is one less invader at the gate.
That ship has sailed.
Then tow it back to the pier. The decline of civility in this country and the vilification of people who disagree with a cause is going to lead us to ruin. The venom that we allow into our conversations may please the people already in our camp but it turns away converts. The left does it too, for sure, but we have facts and data and the constitution on our side. Name calling and vilification is what you use when you have none of the above.
David Pennington
06-04-13, 09:04
Then tow it back to the pier. The decline of civility in this country and the vilification of people who disagree with a cause is going to lead us to ruin. The venom that we allow into our conversations may please the people already in our camp but it turns away converts. The left does it too, for sure, but we have facts and data and the constitution on our side. Name calling and vilification is what you use when you have none of the above.
There is no loss of civility in this country. Study history. This nation is less divided and more civil than it has been many other times in the past. The constant throwing out of the civility card is just a way to tamp down vigorous debate and defense of rights.
Gun control is a civil rights issue pure and simple. Anyone wishing to deprive me of my civil rights is my enemy. Would you begrudge a black man for rejoicing at the death of a slave holder or a 9/11 victim rejoicing at the death of Osama Bin Laden? Same-same.
I don't rejoice in Lautenburg's death but I do rejoice in him being out of this fight.
McCarthy and Lautenberg are domestic enemies of this nation. They would confiscate your bank account, home, car, land, and guns for the greater good if they could get away with it. They would throw you in a prison camp if they could get away with it.
These politicians have millions and ride around in a armored limo with a security detail but they don't think you have the right to the same stuff.
For all that say we need to remain classy, when is the hawaiian-kenyan going to be classy?
What about this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLr1EQpqIo
"All this for a damned flag"
Or these ones:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/obama_umbrella.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/prince_harry.jpg
woodandsteel
06-04-13, 13:11
So Christie decided to punt.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/04/who-will-christie-choose-nj-governor-has-several-options-for-lautenberg/
I'm really tired of hearing people talk about him running for president in 2016. Hopefully this decision will shut up the RINO's.
McCarthy and Lautenberg are domestic enemies of this nation. They would confiscate your bank account, home, car, land, and guns for the greater good if they could get away with it. They would throw you in a prison camp if they could get away with it.
These politicians have millions and ride around in a armored limo with a security detail but they don't think you have the right to the same stuff.
No one disputes that.
We should not rejoice in their misfortune and pain and illness. (Which I think you may have hinted at in your later post about staying classy -- this is not directed at you personally, really).
We should rejoice that they are out of the fight or on their way out of the fight and there is one less political obstacle to the exercising of our rights.
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No one disputes that.
We should not rejoice in their misfortune and pain and illness. (Which I think you may have hinted at in your later post about staying classy -- this is not directed at you personally, really).
We should rejoice that they are out of the fight or on their way out of the fight and there is one less political obstacle to the exercising of our rights.
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I understand that I am "odd man out" on this issue but I honestly don't agree that it shows a lack of class to hate those who would harm you and take what is yours. I also don't think we should rejoice too much for the "one less political obstacle" given all the followers that "one person" created who willingly became a multitude of enemies.
I also do not believe we can "forgive" our way to personal freedom.
No one disputes that.
We should not rejoice in their misfortune and pain and illness. (Which I think you may have hinted at in your later post about staying classy -- this is not directed at you personally, really).
We should rejoice that they are out of the fight or on their way out of the fight and there is one less political obstacle to the exercising of our rights.
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What about the pain and suffering of 80 women and children roasted alive at waco by the atf due to policies put in place by these liberals?
They would roast you alive too if they could get away with it.
We are just a decade or two away from military and police going though peoples homes and confiscating firearms. Some big gun ban will pass and be declared constitutional by scotus.
Your 401k will be confiscated by a new taxation law that sets the taxation rate at 100% (thanks due to judge roberts in the obamacare decision).
What are you going to do then?
We are in an all out culture and politcal fight for this nation and it is not going to be won by taking the high road anymore.
Alaskapopo
06-04-13, 16:10
What about the pain and suffering of 80 women and children roasted alive at waco by the atf due to policies put in place by these liberals?
They would roast you alive too if they could get away with it.
We are just a decade or two away from military and police going though peoples homes and confiscating firearms. Some big gun ban will pass and be declared constitutional by scotus.
Your 401k will be confiscated by a new taxation law that sets the taxation rate at 100% (thanks due to judge roberts in the obamacare decision).
What are you going to do then?
We are in an all out culture and politcal fight for this nation and it is not going to be won by taking the high road anymore.
The cultists are responsible for what happened there. Personal responsibility seems to be running short these days as its easier to blame the government for everything.
Pat
The cultists are responsible for what happened there. Personal responsibility seems to be running short these days as its easier to blame the government for everything.
Pat
So when the hawaiian-kenyan sends his men to american homes to confiscate everyones guns and land, will that be the citizens' fault as well?
You bring up personal responsibly, but you have the biggest entitlement mentality on this website.
You think unions should run the show. You think your taxpayer funded retirement should be kept at the same level, while everyone in the private sector looses money in their 401k.
You came out in favor of obamacare.
Alpha Sierra
06-04-13, 16:19
Then tow it back to the pier. The decline of civility in this country and the vilification of people who disagree with a cause is going to lead us to ruin. The venom that we allow into our conversations may please the people already in our camp but it turns away converts. The left does it too, for sure, but we have facts and data and the constitution on our side. Name calling and vilification is what you use when you have none of the above.
This isn't some academic or polemic debate about appropriations or some other mundane aspect of government.
This is an all out assault on the very fabric of what defines freedom in this country.
I make no apologies for considering the people who would destroy that fabric to increase their power over their countrymen to be traitors, tyrants, and wishing on them what I would wish my worst enemy.
Alaskapopo
06-04-13, 16:21
So when the hawaiian-kenyan sends his men to american homes to confiscate everyones guns and land, will that be the citizens' fault as well?
You bring up personal responsibly, but you have the biggest entitlement mentality on this website.
You think unions should run the show. You think your taxpayer funded retirement should be kept at the same level, while everyone in the private sector looses money in their 401k.
You make a lot of statements. Never said unions should run the show but they should have a voice. Hell yes my retirement that I have worked 14 years for should stay the same as what I was promised when I started working. Also I pay into that retirement at 7.5% of my salary. Also private sector 401K's have been going up lately I know my supplemental retirement account that is all my contributions has gone up. You seem to blame the government for everything and you speak in terms of doom and gloom constantly. You thought the assault rifle ban was going to pass it didn't. Now you think that your 401K will be taken away it won't.
Pat
I make no apologies for considering the people who would destroy that fabric to increase their power over their countrymen to be traitors, tyrants, and wishing on them what I would wish my worst enemy.
+1
The biggest threat to America is the hawaiian-kenyan and his followers.
They can do more damage to America than al-queda or any foreign force could every hope to.
I understand that I am "odd man out" on this issue but I honestly don't agree that it shows a lack of class to hate those who would harm you and take what is yours. I also don't think we should rejoice too much for the "one less political obstacle" given all the followers that "one person" created who willingly became a multitude of enemies.
I also do not believe we can "forgive" our way to personal freedom.
Who talked about forgiving?
You thought the assault rifle ban was going to pass it didn't. Now you think that your 401K will be taken away it won't.
Pat
But it could have with a slightly different makeup of congress and a few more high profile shootings. We already had it once. What makes you think it couldn't happen again?
The governements power to tax has been declared almost infinite by the obamacare ruling.
Have more than $250K in your 401k?
"No person needs that much money. Working people need their fair share so they can retire with dignity."
That will be the next line from the ****ing democrats and then we will have a law that taxes your 401k if it has "too much money" in it.
What about the pain and suffering of 80 women and children roasted alive at waco by the atf due to policies put in place by these liberals?
They would roast you alive too if they could get away with it.
We are just a decade or two away from military and police going though peoples homes and confiscating firearms. Some big gun ban will pass and be declared constitutional by scotus.
Your 401k will be confiscated by a new taxation law that sets the taxation rate at 100% (thanks due to judge roberts in the obamacare decision).
What are you going to do then?
We are in an all out culture and politcal fight for this nation and it is not going to be won by taking the high road anymore.
Sorry, I fail to see how a little human sympathy for someone who lost a loved one (or in McCarthy's case, has cancer) runs counter to anything you said.
Fight and attack the enemy.
Show no quarter when it comes to battle.
Doesn't mean you [generic "you"] have to be a dick about it.
During WW2 we fought tooth and nail with the Japs and the Jerry. But when we captured them, we treated the individual soldier with respect.
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You make a lot of statements. Never said unions should run the show but they should have a voice.
Unions have NO PLACE in public employment. Too much conflict of interest.
In the private sector, if workers want to join a union or form a union and try and grab a "voice" they should be able to. And private companies should be able to ignore the unions if they want. They should not be compelled by law to listen to the "voice" of the union. They can if they choose to (and they may have good reasons to do so) but they should not be compelled to and unions should have no legal protections that the individual does not have.
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Hell yes my retirement that I have worked 14 years for should stay the same as what I was promised when I started working.
Except nobody in the private sector is promised anything like that.
Also I pay into that retirement at 7.5% of my salary.
So does everyone else.
During WW2 we fought tooth and nail with the Japs and the Jerry. But when we captured them, we treated the individual soldier with respect.
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That isn't the same.
We have people making big decisions in big roles that aren't accountable to anybody.
The individual soldier doesn't have a say in policy.
David Pennington opened a thread on schadenfreude. Let's keep this thread about Lautenberg, and take the philosophical stuff over to the other one.
That isn't the same.
Ok, when we captured the big whigs, we did not string em up, gut em, and hang em by a light pole (well, the Italians did that to Il Duce but that was not us).
We have people making big decisions in big roles that aren't accountable to anybody.
The individual soldier doesn't have a say in policy.
And that is why we fight them. Tooth and nail. And work to remove them from that role they play.
We don't have to glory in their personal misfortune. (We can glory in the result of that misfortune meaning they are out of the fight -- that is different than glorying in the actual misfortune).
We don't have to be dicks about it. It is hard enough fight as it is.
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David Pennington opened a thread on schadenfreude. Let's keep this thread about Lautenberg, and take the philosophical stuff over to the other one.
Good idea
Edited because I just discovered the schadenfreude thread.
You seem to blame the government for everything and you speak in terms of doom and gloom constantly. Pat
Right now we pay $5K per employee for their health insurance per year. This is projected to go up to $10K to $13K in the next few years because of obamacare. It is going to get so bad we are dicussing about dropping the coverage.
Who am I suppose to blame for this? You tell me how this is the fault of anyone else but government?
Alaskapopo
06-04-13, 16:39
Unions have NO PLACE in public employment. Too much conflict of interest.
In the private sector, if workers want to join a union or form a union and try and grab a "voice" they should be able to. And private companies should be able to ignore the unions if they want. They should not be compelled by law to listen to the "voice" of the union. They can if they choose to (and they may have good reasons to do so) but they should not be compelled to and unions should have no legal protections that the individual does not have.
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That is your opinion. Public sector employees have just as much of a right to organize for fair pay and benefits as anyone else. Of course being a business owner yourself I don't expect you to support workers rights. I am sure you would like wages as low as possible.
Its funny how so many so called conservatives on here are all about lowering taxes and inflating their own wallets while at the same time wanting to reduce pay for public employees some of whom risk their lives on their behalf. It is greed pure and simple. You want to have more and you want us to have less.
Pat
Alaskapopo
06-04-13, 16:41
Right now we pay $5K per employee for their health insurance per year. This is projected to go up to $10K to $13K in the next few years because of obamacare. It is going to get so bad we are dicussing about dropping the coverage.
Who am I suppose to blame for this? You tell me how this is the fault of anyone else but government?
The costs were going up at 4 times the rate of inflation prior to Romneycare (not Obama's plan actually) Now that the Affordable Health Care act has kicked in in some places costs are actually going down. Check out California you can get coverage for a single person for as low as 300 a month. This is simply right wing scare tactics.
Pat
Alaskapopo
06-04-13, 16:43
David Pennington opened a thread on schadenfreude. Let's keep this thread about Lautenberg, and take the philosophical stuff over to the other one.
Sorry I missed this post will be back on topic.
Pat
That is your opinion. Public sector employees have just as much of a right to organize for fair pay and benefits as anyone else. Of course being a business owner yourself I don't expect you to support workers rights. I am sure you would like wages as low as possible.
No they don't. Plenty has been written on why not, but it is super major conflict of interest.
Please start a new thread on this subject if you'd like to discuss it.
Its funny how so many so called conservatives on here are all about lowering taxes and inflating their own wallets while at the same time wanting to reduce pay for public employees some of whom risk their lives on their behalf. It is greed pure and simple. You want to have more and you want us to have less.
Pat
You really believe that?
Again, if you really want to discuss unions, especially public employee unions, please start a new thread or resurrect one of the earlier ones on the subject.
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Alaskapopo
06-04-13, 16:48
No they don't. Plenty has been written on why not, but it is super major conflict of interest.
Please start a new thread on this subject if you'd like to discuss it.
You really believe that?
Again, if you really want to discuss unions, especially public employee unions, please start a new thread or resurrect one of the earlier ones on the subject.
----
Stop replying about unions if you don't want it discussed. I really have no interest in debating with a rich business owner the topic of workers rights because I know you will never agree because its in your interest not to. I have no interest in risking my life for a minimum wage job that I am sure you would like all public sector employees to be paid.
I am done here.
Pat
Okay, we're far enough off the rails. Schadenfreude go to your corner. ObamaCare to yours. Everyone else have a cookie.
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