View Full Version : Primer Pocket Swaging
Hello all,
Does anyone use the RCBS 09495 Die for removing the crimp of primer pockets? If so, can you share any advice, tips, suggestions or otherwise? I have seen the Dillon bench tool but, like most everyone else, I am trying to keep start up costs down. I have also seen the Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter and have read some decent reviews on the Midway site. And yes, I might just now be getting into the reloading arena, to the extent that I might have yet to even load a cartridge!
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
JH
RearwardAssist
06-05-13, 01:27
I would recommend a reamer I had the hornady and it worked well but dulled quickly. I then switched to a 1/2" countersink bit chucked in a drill and it works the best so far.:
RearwardAssist
06-05-13, 01:29
Oh also I am a big Dillon fan but do not care for a swagger. I had brass swagged didn't care for the results.
Hello all,
Does anyone use the RCBS 09495 Die for removing the crimp of primer pockets? If so, can you share any advice, tips, suggestions or otherwise? I have seen the Dillon bench tool but, like most everyone else, I am trying to keep start up costs down. I have also seen the Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter and have read some decent reviews on the Midway site. And yes, I might just now be getting into the reloading arena, to the extent that I might have yet to even load a cartridge!
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
JH
I have it and it sucks. Use a Hornady reamer until you can afford a dillon.
This is the one rcbs thing I give crap reviews for.
I chuck a Hornady Reamer up in a drill and have had great results. Have used a friends Dillon Swager but it was slower and loosened many of the pockets too much.
I've run 10s of thousands of pieces of brass over my Hornady cutter in a drill bit.
I never did get the hand of the Super Swager and dumped it. Some people swear by it and claim they can set it up to swage by feel and NOT ruin brass... I didn't give it that much time before I sold it...
But it took me a while to figure out my sinclair hand primer, so the swager may be viable if you're dilligent.
The ONE upside to going swager over cutter is was pointed out by a guy from Lapua. When you swage, you're further work hardening the case head which is a good thing. Now I'm stuck with that notion in my head.:p
I got the Lyman Primer Pocket Reamer and chucked in the trash after about 20 cases. I get good results just using the Lyman Flash Hole Uniforming tool to cut the crimp edge.
The rcbs swaging die has worked fine for me. Sometimes the case does not come off the swaging button very easy. I use a little dry lube on the swaging button to help remove the case.
I prefer swaging to reaming primer pockets.
I prefer the Hornady reamer (both large & small) over the swager on my 1050 for crimped rifle brass. This after over swaging some 5.56 which resulted in a couple of catastrophic failures in a match. While not absolutely mandatory it's wise to ream the flash holes after swaging.
I did break down and use the swager on 1k of 9mm WCC NATO brass I just put in service. Those worked fine, but when decapped it's clear the back-up rod pressed some metal over the inside of the flash hole. Never again if I can keep from it.
My RCBS small primer pocket reamer did finally get dull enough to replace.
You need a drill press or a variable speed drill with a constant on button to save time.
I'd like to give my vote to the Primer Pocket swage kit made by CH4D.
Available only from them, it's the fastest and most effective single stage press solution to swaging primer pockets IMHO and at $23.25 plus shipping it's inexpensive.
Review: http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay2/index.asp
To Buy: http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/product/psk
This is the deal breaker for me.... even if it's free... if you have to tune it to each kind of brass, it's not for me.
Once the tool is adjusted for a certain brand of brass, it may have to be readjusted when switching to another brand of brass.
polymorpheous
06-05-13, 14:54
I have the RCBS swagger die.
I don't like it.
This is the deal breaker for me.... even if it's free... if you have to tune it to each kind of brass, it's not for me.
Markm,
The operative word here is "MAY" require tuning. But no more than your FL die or or bullet seater die requires small tuning.
So far LC, Speer, and Federal 223 brass I've tried require only one setting, and works great on all 3. I have not tried any other crimped brand of 223 brass.
308 brass seems to vary the most, and requires the most tuning, between LC and foreign non-US brass.....
YMMV and IMHO
I see... as a survivor of the super swager, the quote popped out at me.
I'd be willing to try it at some point. .308? I don't come across enough of that to worry. It's the .223 that I do the most.
30 cal slut
06-05-13, 16:11
i dumped my dillon super swager in favor of the simpler hornady reamer.
i just have to figure out how to attach it to a drill. doing it by hand can get tiresome.
i just have to figure out how to attach it to a drill.
You take the bit out of the handle and put it in a drill. :confused:
Nothing to it.
I lay my drill down on its side with the handle away from me so I can press the brass onto the cutter from the right side with my right hand.
i dumped my dillon super swager in favor of the simpler hornady reamer.
i just have to figure out how to attach it to a drill. doing it by hand can get tiresome.
Yep - just chuck it up. (No threads were harmed in this episode.)
I've removed the crimp from primer pockets with a sharp pocket knife blade.
CH/4D has some neat items for this. You need to visit the website if you're not seen it. The owner himself will assist you if need be.
30 cal slut
06-05-13, 19:05
doh! :p
Grampsinthesand
06-06-13, 06:42
Hello all,
Does anyone use the RCBS 09495 Die for removing the crimp of primer pockets? If so, can you share any advice, tips, suggestions or otherwise? I have seen the Dillon bench tool but, like most everyone else, I am trying to keep start up costs down. I have also seen the Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter and have read some decent reviews on the Midway site. And yes, I might just now be getting into the reloading arena, to the extent that I might have yet to even load a cartridge!
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
JH
I have used one for years now. Yes...I bought other reamers et al but keep coming back to the RCBS die.
Once you adjusted the depth ..I find it much faster and easier to put the case mouth up into the die then raise the ram and guide the primer pocket onto the case holder portion of the setup. I know it sounds like a lot but you get going it is fast.
I never have to "readjust" for different types of .223/5.56 brass.....I never had any issue .
I have used the RCBS swager. It works, and is reasonably efficient. I have not experienced any of the "ruined" pockets or stuck cases others have experienced. I do not find it necessary to adjust between different types of brass.
If you are a doofus its probably easier to ruin cases with a reamer of some type. But perhaps it is safe to suggest that reloading may not be the best hobby the ham-fisted anyways.
I have also heard the theoretical advantage that swaging work-hardens the case head, but I have not conducted an objective study to show that this is the case, ie swaged cases are good for 2x/more loadings...
I have used the RCBS swager. It works, and is reasonably efficient. I have not experienced any of the "ruined" pockets or stuck cases others have experienced. I do not find it necessary to adjust between different types of brass.
I may pick up a press swager to play with. If it works good on feel, then I'm a zen master on feel with my single stage. :)
If you are a doofus its probably easier to ruin cases with a reamer of some type.
Actually not the case... at least according to a guy here. The cutter is self limiting, but you have to hold the case straight. Someone here tried to ruin brass as a test by getting really stupid with it sideways, and it still was ok.
I have also heard the theoretical advantage that swaging work-hardens the case head, but I have not conducted an objective study to show that this is the case, ie swaged cases are good for 2x/more loadings...
There's no doubt that working the brass instead of cutting it will harden it... but yeah... does that translate into primer pockets staying tight longer? Who knows?
I typically process my brass in batches of 1k so I'll stick to the inexpensive Hornady pocket reamer chucked in a drill which works pretty quick with minimal of hand movements needed.
I have the RCBS swaging die set and found they were a pain in the ass to use. I have the Dillon and now just use the RCBS swaging die as a tool to check for swage.
This little trick speeds workflow (string & rubber band):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LaZHeSUqQbk
So does a little purple loctite on the case rod to keep it from creeping during swaging. If you do batches by headstamp for adjustment, it can be pretty fast and easy.
If someone could come up with a small pneumatic swager with a case feeder, that would be gold. Any factory automation guys out there that are bored?
I was told by a guy who knows about these things that the case hardening from swaging is more beneficial than cutting for the longevity and stability of brass, too. The Lapua guy was spot on.
Thanks everyone for your input. I was beginning to feel more comfortable with starting out on this new venture of reloading. Can there be any more variables thrown in to shake things up?!?! Haha I am going to further study all the suggestions provided and go from there. I pretty much have everything set-up and ready to go, with the exception of the primer crimp issue and some of the much needed actual components. Thanks to all of you guys here for providing your set-up tips, photos and other advice of the process that you have learned. Many thanks for your time and experience to us that are just beginning!!!!!
JH
I have also heard the theoretical advantage that swaging work-hardens the case head, but I have not conducted an objective study to show that this is the case, ie swaged cases are good for 2x/more loadings...
I was notionalizing on this last night and wanted to post the one thing I've noticed about LC once fired brass.
The brass that just has the "L C 1 0", for example, equally spaced around the case head has consistently yielded MUCH looser primer pockets for me when compared to LC brass with the NATO cross, Date, and "dimpled" case head brass.
I'm wanting to assume that the XM193 load and brass composition is the same for the two. I think the case heads are harder on the more extensively head stamped brass.
This observation is based on thousands and thousands of hand primed brass over several years.
CrazyFingers
06-07-13, 10:24
For what it's worth, I've also used the Hornady small primer tool to remove the crimp on ~600 Lake City and Federal Champion cases. It feels like it bottoms out when the crimp is completely removed, which prevents over-loosening the primer pocket.
For what it's worth, I've also used the Hornady small primer tool to remove the crimp on ~600 Lake City and Federal Champion cases. It feels like it bottoms out when the crimp is completely removed, which prevents over-loosening the primer pocket.
It does. You'll see where the bit rubs on the bottom of the primer pocket if you're running a drill.
CrazyFingers
06-07-13, 11:03
I thought it was funny that the worst crimps I've dealt with weren't on 5.56/.223 cases at all. I have several hundred .45 ACP small primer cases, and I had to break out the Hornady tool on a handful of Federal cases where they crimped the hell out of the primer. They had the same crimp ring around the pocket that LC/FC brass has and it was a chore just fitting the Hornady tool in..
I've recently been using the LYMAN VLD CHAMFERING tool for primer pocket crimp removal. I did a few hundred rounds this week and it worked good at removing the 3 stake style crimp.
I've used it on regular circular crimps too.
I've recently been using the LYMAN VLD CHAMFERING tool for primer pocket crimp removal. I did a few hundred rounds this week and it worked good at removing the 3 stake style crimp.
I've used it on regular circular crimps too.
I use something very similar, though not as HSLD, for primer pocket crimp removal... the L.E. Wilson Chamfer and Deburing tool.
I still like the Hornady in the drill for the most part, but the Lyman thing just happens to work pretty good too.
1_click_off
04-15-14, 10:44
I was thinking of trying this. http://m.ebay.com/itm/321370478280
Anybody ever use one? Thought it would be slick to decap and swage in 2 strokes. They make it for a 650 as well.
I was thinking of trying this. http://m.ebay.com/itm/321370478280
Anybody ever use one? Thought it would be slick to decap and swage in 2 strokes. They make it for a 650 as well.
That looks very promising...especially paired up with a trimmer and decapper as suggested! Thanks for the link!
I was thinking of trying this. http://m.ebay.com/itm/321370478280
Anybody ever use one? Thought it would be slick to decap and swage in 2 strokes. They make it for a 650 as well.
This looks awesome. I use the Dillion Super swage and while it works very well, it is tedious.
Just read a few reviews and ordered one. I like to process a bunch of brass at a time then have it for loading when I have time. I'll report back after I get some use on it.
1_click_off
04-15-14, 13:37
I was thinking of trying this. http://m.ebay.com/itm/321370478280
Anybody ever use one? Thought it would be slick to decap and swage in 2 strokes. They make it for a 650 as well.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPaf3RqoM3o video of it in action.
Interesting. I've gone away from decapping on my progressive for cleanliness reasons. But that 650 was cranking them out.
I'd like to sit down with my Sinclair primer after that swage and see if the pockets are better than the super swager.
Coal Dragger
04-15-14, 15:22
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPaf3RqoM3o video of it in action.
I may have to invest in one of those.
1_click_off
07-18-14, 22:17
Just read a few reviews and ordered one. I like to process a bunch of brass at a time then have it for loading when I have time. I'll report back after I get some use on it.
Did you ever mount this swager in you press and use it? How did it work out for you?
I use the RCBS military crimp remover and think for $15 it does a great job. I mounts mine on the RCBS auto case prep center and it makes processing range brass far easier.
Did you ever mount this swager in you press and use it? How did it work out for you?
Forgot all about this thread! Yes, I did buy it and have been using it. I'm very impressed with it. Like I said I process brass in stages and in bulk usually, and this cut out the entire separate swagging stage for me. Now I can size in station 1, swag in station 2 and I have my case trimmer in station 4. (Dillon 650)
davestarbuck
07-23-14, 22:27
I too have the GS Custom swager for my Dillon 650 xl. I've used it to process 5.56, convert 5.56 to 300 Blackout, and most recently to swage around 2000 military 9mm cases for a buddy. All in all probably over 10 k worth of brass through the setup with no problems. All cases processed primed easily on a 550b, a 650 xl and my buddy's Lee Pro 1000. All rounds loaded successfully turned money into smoke and noise, so I have no complaints!
I thought it was dookie, and I'm an experienced reloader. I traded it off to somebody who wanted it.
1_click_off
08-07-14, 20:26
I thought it was dookie, and I'm an experienced reloader. I traded it off to somebody who wanted it.
What specifically didn't you care for, I was really considering one.
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