View Full Version : another nail in the coffin
Taken from Drudge...
The New York State Senate today passed a bill that creates the crime of aggravated harassment of a police or peace officer. The bill (S.2402), sponsored by Senator Joe Griffo (R-C-I, Rome) would make it a felony to harass, annoy, or threaten a police officer while on duty.
The harass and threaten part I get, but annoy? That's a pretty broad term. My first thought was just another way to disarm the peasants. A simple way to get a felony conviction.
What's next - a felony for thinking bad thoughts?
Taken from Drudge...
The harass and threaten part I get, but annoy? That's a pretty broad term. My first thought was just another way to disarm the peasants. A simple way to get a felony conviction.
What's next - a felony for thinking bad thoughts?
Hasn't it always been illegal to threaten or harass anybody much less a LE officer?
The annoy part is definitely vague. More and more ridiculous laws being introduced every day.
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-07-13, 09:18
Hasn't it always been illegal to threaten or harass anybody much less a LE officer?
The annoy part is definitely vague. More and more ridiculous laws being introduced every day.
The annoy part is the one that should bother everyone, not that it has ever been any other way.
Hasn't it always been illegal to threaten or harass anybody much less a LE officer?
The annoy part is definitely vague. More and more ridiculous laws being introduced every day.
Can't speak to New York Law, but yeah, usually threatening someone equals assault, do it with a weapon, and at least around here you are looking at a felony charge. That said, a felony to annoy someone? What the **** is classified as annoying someone? Broad area to use it in? Hell if I was up there and a LEO as soon as this went into effect I've arrest the governor or someone claiming they annoyed me and see what happens. Going by the law....
I am just spit balling here, didn't read the law or anything, just trying to find some humor this morning.
I am just spit balling here, didn't read the law or anything, just trying to find some humor this morning.
Same here just going by the quote. Is it just me or does it seem commonplace today to try and pit the citizens against LE and foster this sort of distrust among us?
Same here just going by the quote. Is it just me or does it seem commonplace today to try and pit the citizens against LE and foster this sort of distrust among us?
I don't know if it is LE against Civie as much as everyone against everyone. If your power base is weak then it is wise to weaken your opposition in anyway you can.
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-07-13, 09:32
So if it passes, the way is works now is OGA, "obstructing a government agency", if a party is involved in one of the above listed actions and the party contains 3 or more people the officer can charge them with one of 6 sub category's, failure to disburse, talking inappropriately, etc. Arrest them and take them to jail. If its 2 or less the officer cannot do anything. So the new law if passed it will make them able to arrest the 2 or less.
Assault 3rd is an a misdemeanor (on a citizen), assault 2nd (on a police officer)
Harassment second (annoying behavior) is a violation.
Usually the charge for any crime on a peace officer is bumped up one level in NY now with the felony they are bumping 2 levels.
The annoy part is the one that should bother everyone, not that it has ever been any other way.
No kidding... I annoyed one a couple of months ago. Driving on a single lane road and approaching a T intersection. Middle of day, no traffic to speak of. At the T the single lane widens to a left and right turn lane. I mistakenly approached the right lane and at last second because no one was around turned into the left lane so I could go left. So I was kinda blocking both lanes a bit. A couple cars were coming on the other road so I read my map some more to be certain where I needed to go after my turn.
Well of all things the next thing I hear is a chirp, I look up, realized he wanted me to move on. I raised my hand in acknowledgement and eased forward... as soon as I did that he jumps out of his car,,, hold on, hold on... So I put it in park thinking WTF...
He walks up to me and asks me if I have been drinking. I don't even drink. I just said What!and laughed.. He then said you are blocking two lanes! I couldn't get by. I said oh, sorry I had to change lanes at last minute as I pulled to stop sign, I got my directions mixed up, and then there was traffic, I was just reading my map... and showed him the map book. He was still pissed and told me I needed to have better situational awareness and to move on. I'm serious this guy was pissed from the time he rolled up behind me and was still pissed when he got back in his car. You would have thought he caught me driving 40mph over the speed limit from his attitude.
EDIT: Hey wait a minute... if this law passes and there is a NY LEO on here... if he gets annoyed by a post can he arrest the forum? Or does the poster have to be from NY too.... what if the poster's message is routed through a server in NY?
What's next? He looked at me funny?
Destined to find it's way to the SCOTUS...
Probably mostly to stop people from filming them?
Probably mostly to stop people from filming them?
OK, but... As a private citizen can I file charges or a complaint if I'm being filmed? What if I'm unaware that I'm being filmed, but learn of it later can I file a complaint then and have it removed from what ever venue it's being shown on?
I guess in short since it's been "found" that my right to privacy ends at my door way, then how is anyone's "privacy" (including LEO) being violated by being filmed? If I film the PD doing their job, either properly or improperly, and am not hindering their execution of their job in any manner, then what difference should it make?
Throwing a bone perhaps to the purple tie gestapo maybe? Stop speaking out against the SAFE Act (a la NYS sheriffs association) and we'll do this for you.
Stupidity as usual... Gotta keep that privileged class growing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-07-13, 15:00
The annoy part is the one that should bother everyone
That's funny...
Soooo, this is a felony? So if they arrest you for it they can take your DNA? ;)
One more additional reason I'll never go to NY.
One more additional reason I'll never go to NY.
Wiser words have never been written ;)
One more additional reason I'll never go to NY.
This covers all my bases...
Heavy Metal
06-07-13, 19:24
Unless NY Code defines 'Annoy', I would argue this is unconstutionally vague.
Unless NY Code defines 'Annoy', I would argue this is unconstutionally vague.
The constitution matters not in the Empire state.
OK, but... As a private citizen can I file charges or a complaint if I'm being filmed? What if I'm unaware that I'm being filmed, but learn of it later can I file a complaint then and have it removed from what ever venue it's being shown on?
I guess in short since it's been "found" that my right to privacy ends at my door way, then how is anyone's "privacy" (including LEO) being violated by being filmed? If I film the PD doing their job, either properly or improperly, and am not hindering their execution of their job in any manner, then what difference should it make?
I'm not happy about the law, I think cops trying to stop people from filming them shows that they are a cross between the STASI and Officer Barbrady.
Just trying to figure out the motivation of this PARTICULAR constitutional infringement.
What does the "R-C-I" in front of the politicians name mean? Is he a Republican?
I wondered about the R-C-I as well, but Republican or Democrat, it really doesn't matter. This is one reason why I've become a Libertarian.
I tried to find out how he voted on the SAFE Act, but no luck.
I'm not happy about the law, I think cops trying to stop people from filming them shows that they are a cross between the STASI and Officer Barbrady.
Just trying to figure out the motivation of this PARTICULAR constitutional infringement.
What does the "R-C-I" in front of the politicians name mean? Is he a Republican?
R-C-I means Republican Conservative Independence according to http://www.lwvnyc.org/TRY_generallist.html (League of Women Voters of the City of New York) Just warms you little heart don't it.
Alaskapopo
06-08-13, 00:17
Taken from Drudge...
The harass and threaten part I get, but annoy? That's a pretty broad term. My first thought was just another way to disarm the peasants. A simple way to get a felony conviction.
What's next - a felony for thinking bad thoughts?
Before jumping on this it would be nice to know what the legal defination of annoy is in New York.
Pat
CarlosDJackal
06-08-13, 00:19
So if an Officer gets annoyed by someone's voice or accent, does that mean he or she can arrest that individual?
Before jumping on this it would be nice to know what the legal defination of annoy is in New York.
Pat
I don't think there is one, which of course is the entire problem.
But if it is a felony, can CCWs use it as justification for lethal force?
:D
Or the problem is their looking at passing stupid laws when the laws already on the books which apply to the comman man are sufficient.
But if it is a felony, can CCWs use it as justification for lethal force?
:D
Touche!
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-08-13, 08:47
Probably mostly to stop people from filming them?
bing, bing bing, Emily GOOD
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-08-13, 08:50
I wondered about the R-C-I as well, but Republican or Democrat, it really doesn't matter. This is one reason why I've become a Libertarian.
I tried to find out how he voted on the SAFE Act, but no luck.
you will find your answer here
http://scopeny.org/
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-08-13, 08:56
Before jumping on this it would be nice to know what the legal defination of annoy is in New York.
Pat
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article240.htm#p240.25
S 240.26 Harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with
intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other
person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or
2. He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or
3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts
which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no
legitimate purpose.
Subdivisions two and three of this section shall not apply to
activities regulated by the national labor relations act, as amended,
the railway labor act, as amended, or the federal employment labor
management act, as amended.
Harassment in the second degree is a violation.
SWATcop556
06-08-13, 12:11
There needs to be a legal definition of "annoy" for this to fly in the court system and I doubt an officer putting "da bitch pissed me off" in his report will satisfy that definition. As LEOs we do not qualify as being the "offended party" in a disorderly conduct offense. This is a slippery slope at best without further clarification.
Personally my standard is if I wouldn't do/say it with the bosses watching me do/say it I don't do it. Film me to your hearts content. It's just further evidence in court of how polite and courteous I was to said individual until it was no longer time to be polite and courteous. I don't sweat the camera phones.
If they capture something I feel could be of evidentiary value I ask for the phone, contact CSU, get a copy of it, and give them their phone back with the original. This shouldn't be hard.
There needs to be a legal definition of "annoy" for this to fly in the court system and I doubt an officer putting "da bitch pissed me off" in his report will satisfy that definition. As LEOs we do not qualify as being the "offended party" in a disorderly conduct offense. This is a slippery slope at best without further clarification.
Personally my standard is if I wouldn't do/say it with the bosses watching me do/say it I don't do it. Film me to your hearts content. It's just further evidence in court of how polite and courteous I was to said individual until it was no longer time to be polite and courteous. I don't sweat the camera phones.
If they capture something I feel could be of evidentiary value I ask for the phone, contact CSU, get a copy of it, and give them their phone back with the original. This shouldn't be hard.
And that is why you are one of the "good guys" and it is appreciated.
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