View Full Version : Gonna Buy An M&P9 (What to look for)
Hey Guys,
I have been wanting an M&P9 for about two years and life has prevented me from buying one. The last six months however it has been the market that has kept one out of my hands.
Anyway is there anything to help me distinguish between an older and a newer model M&P so I can assure I have the most up to date version of their pistol?
Thanks in advance.
I could be wrong but I would think that if you're buying brand new, the LGS would have some of the newest ones available. With this past market, I doubt anything has been sitting around on the shelves very long.
If you're buying used, I vaguely remember seeing a S/N prefix "timeline", so-to-speak, on another forum somewhere, however, I can't remember where.
Sent via Tapatalk
RogerinTPA
06-07-13, 10:44
Other than date of manufacture, nothing externally that I can tell. I believe if the date was in the last 18 months or so, you should be fine. I agree with Ryno. Gun stores move a lot of product so you should be relatively safe if bought new. If used, I go with one from a member on here or another reputable forum. You may luck out and get one with an Apex kit installed...
Redbeardsong
06-07-13, 10:54
If you're looking at new M&Ps, dry fire the trigger, and feel for a distinct tactile reset. Also field strip it and look at the underside of the sear, which is the small rectangular wedge of steel in the rear center of the frame. If it has a teardrop shape, instead of oval, where the sear interfaces with the trigger bar, it is the new version. Here is a picture I found of the old, oval sear on top, the new M&P sear in the middle, and the APEX sear on the bottom. Notice Smith has reshaped the new sear to perform similarly to the APEX, although it's not identical. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/07/ehequmar.jpg
Here is a link to what LAV had to say about the M&P 9 on 1-15-13.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=121518
If you can wait a month or two, I will get some fresh from the factory M&P's. We can install sights, Apex components, etc on them and you will be getting the most up to date model.
C4
brickboy240
06-07-13, 13:21
Is it "safe" to buy a full size 9mm M&P now?
Not only for the trigger...but did they get the accuracy issues ironed out?
I have always had a "thang" for the V-Tac version of that pistol.
-brickboy240
Is it "safe" to buy a full size 9mm M&P now?
Not only for the trigger...but did they get the accuracy issues ironed out?
I have always had a "thang" for the V-Tac version of that pistol.
-brickboy240
Not sure what the definition of "safe" is, but they have been good to go for quite some time (6-8 months).
C4
NeoNeanderthal
06-07-13, 13:47
If you wont wait to get it from grant, MAKE SURE YOU dry fire it! The newer triggers are night and day better than the older ones. If the gun store your at wont let you dry fire it in a safe manner even after youve explained your reasoning, dont buy it there!
Here is a link to what LAV had to say about the M&P 9 on 1-15-13.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=121518
S&W has upgraded/changed/fixed the following in the last 12 months:
1. Trigger bar
2. Slide catch
3. Sear
4. Barrel twist rate and tolerances
C4
Redbeardsong
06-07-13, 14:18
S&W has upgraded/changed/fixed the following in the last 12 months:
1. Trigger bar
2. Slide catch
3. Sear
4. Barrel twist rate and tolerances
C4
Good to know, Grant! I know the reset and sear on mine are greatly improved, to the point that just an APEX striker block kit would get you pretty close to the performance of a full APEX kit.
I wasn't aware that the barrel had changed. What were the old and new twist rates and fit changes made?
brickboy240
06-07-13, 14:51
If the trigger issue has been addressed and the accuracy issues dealt with that yeah...it might indeed be "safe" to buy an M&P9 full-size.
Good to know. I recently shot the M&P45 mid sized...that is a really nice piece. You never hear about it but it was one really nice shooting polymer 45.
-brickboy240
I got a 9c last fall. Personally I have had no problems with it yet. I haven't been shooting as much since then, only about 7-800 rounds through it so far(wow, that is sad to think about).
The most accuracy testing I've done resulted in a 4-5 inch group @ 15 yards standing unsupported. To me it is a perfectly acceptable defensive pistol. I am doing my best to aquire 9mm ammo and I plan on really testing its accuracy next time out.
My slide lock is quite stiff, but every time I have used it while shooting I don't notice it.
I have never liked glocks, the way I learned to shoot doesn't rely on a glock like trigger reset, so it hasn't been a big deal to me.
Interestingly enough, all my friends pull their shots to the left when going directly from my m&p to their glocks. I have never encountered this personally, but 5 of my friends all saw this happen to them.
brickboy240
06-07-13, 16:40
The M&P Compact 9 seems to be pretty solid.
I borrowed on once and it was plenty accurate.
The trigger with it's barely noticeable re-set was in issue, however.
The Shields seem to have really nice triggers.
Could it be that S&W is finally getting closer to putting out a really good semi-auto? Their revolvers have always been super solid but their autos...over the years...were very hit and miss.
-brickboy240
dookie1481
06-07-13, 16:44
Good luck finding extra magazines.
If you can wait a month or two, I will get some fresh from the factory M&P's. We can install sights, Apex components, etc on them and you will be getting the most up to date model.
C4
This makes me happy lol
S&W has upgraded/changed/fixed the following in the last 12 months:
1. Trigger bar
2. Slide catch
3. Sear
4. Barrel twist rate and tolerances
C4
Grant, I have one from you with a born on date of 09/12. It has the upgraded internals and trigger but it wont group to save its life. I'm guessing it is one of the ones during the transition phase maybe. I'm on list for one of your SL barrels so its a non issue but Ill be picking up one of the newer ones when you bring them for sure.
I just got an M&P9 a week ago. My trigger is gritty only when the slide is forward, feels like something is grinding. Maybe it'll soften with more rounds through it.
Good to know, Grant! I know the reset and sear on mine are greatly improved, to the point that just an APEX striker block kit would get you pretty close to the performance of a full APEX kit.
I wasn't aware that the barrel had changed. What were the old and new twist rates and fit changes made?
The old twist rate was like 1/18 and now it is 1/10.
C4
The M&P Compact 9 seems to be pretty solid.
I borrowed on once and it was plenty accurate.
The trigger with it's barely noticeable re-set was in issue, however.
The Shields seem to have really nice triggers.
Could it be that S&W is finally getting closer to putting out a really good semi-auto? Their revolvers have always been super solid but their autos...over the years...were very hit and miss.
-brickboy240
S&W has been putting more and more money into the M&P. That is a good thing. ;)
C4
I wish they would put more and more money into getting spare mags to market! :lol:
I wish they would put more and more money into getting spare mags to market! :lol:
They don't make the mags.
C4
If you can wait a month or two, I will get some fresh from the factory M&P's. We can install sights, Apex components, etc on them and you will be getting the most up to date model.
C4
Grant I live in a ban state and you mentioned you don't get in 10 rounders with your M&Ps, if I do do after market upgrades though the upper will be going your way.
Father of 3
06-07-13, 20:15
In older model M&P's, there was a pin that filled in where the thumb safety went. It was next to the rear takedown pin.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/209001_01_md.jpg
In all newer models, at least which I've seen, that pin is gone and it appears to have a "filler" next to the slide. N
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/150986_01_md.jpg
Anyone else notice this? What/why did they change it?
They don't make the mags.
C4
Now you've got my interest, I don't think I have heard about this before. Who does make the mags?
Unkle Kurt
06-07-13, 23:03
Mec-Gar
In older model M&P's, there was a pin that filled in where the thumb safety went. It was next to the rear takedown pin.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/209001_01_md.jpg
In all newer models, at least which I've seen, that pin is gone and it appears to have a "filler" next to the slide. N
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/150986_01_md.jpg
Anyone else notice this? What/why did they change it?
Really? Mine was mid 2012 iirc and it looks like the top... its an mp40 though. I'll check the date and update in the next few days - im wondering now.
The top picture is not thumb safety compatible. That filler was used for a lock.
All thumb safety compatible frames look like the bottom one with the squareish cut outs.
ericridebike
06-08-13, 10:00
Are the newer tear-drop sears available currently to purchase?
My M&P FS 9mm is a 3/2012 pistol and the trigger pull is very smooth with a short tactile reset and a lighter pull than my Glock 19. It is also quite accurate. Im very happy with it.
Are the newer tear-drop sears available currently to purchase?
They are just a PC sear. The Apex ones are still better IMHO.
C4
<snip>
...but did they get the accuracy issues ironed out?
<snip>
The 2013 M&P Pro CORE 9mm that I got was shooting 8-10 inch groups at 25 yards--it didn't matter whether I used the irons or an RMR. (I usually shoot 4-6 inch groups at 50 yards.)
The guy who bought it when I traded it in is getting 4" groups at 7 or so yards, which he's pretty happy with.
ETA - caliber, fix distance for other person
How does one decode M&P manufacturing dates?
If you can wait a month or two, I will get some fresh from the factory M&P's. We can install sights, Apex components, etc on them and you will be getting the most up to date model.
C4
Is this for all M&Ps now? i.e. C.O.R.E.S. and standard?
I was hoping the refresh from S&W would eliminate the need for the Apex components. No luck?
I got one of the new m&p's recently, was very surprised at how much better the trigger was out of the box.
Grant, I have a 2011 produced M&P 9FS with a fairly crappy trigger and acceptable (not great) accuracy. I can likely trade into a current production for $75. Would I be better off just buying an APEX kit for basically the same money, or updating to new production for the improvements to trigger/barrel?
Not trying to hijack the thread, but it seemed like similar questions were being asked.
Thank you.
Grant, I have a 2011 produced M&P 9FS with a fairly crappy trigger and acceptable (not great) accuracy. I can likely trade into a current production for $75. Would I be better off just buying an APEX kit for basically the same money, or updating to new production for the improvements to trigger/barrel?
Not trying to hijack the thread, but it seemed like similar questions were being asked.
Thank you.
I'm curious also & was wondering the same thing. I have a FS 40 from the same year. Thanks for asking Pork Chop.
Sent via Tapatalk
theblackknight
06-11-13, 13:24
As a M&P shooter for 6 years now, I popped the top on a new one that just came in last week. Its got the guitar pick shaped sear lobe and the dimple. The trigger break is good,maybe even lighter then the G17 I compared it to, and it's actually has a reset now, still no level glock reset tho. STILL has the gritty take up. I would say that after a good break in and polish, I'd prob leave the trigger as is and spend the 40$ you would have normally on some apex stuff towards your favorite pair of sights. Hopefully Smith's days of basketball guns are over.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/12/jabuba8u.jpg
sent from mah gun,using my sights
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/12/jabuba8u.jpg
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I picked up mine on Saturday and spent the day on the range with my father. It has the new tear drop sear lobe, trigger reset is very obvious, but yea the take up on the trigger is "gritty". I never knew what you all were talking about in regards to a "gritty" trigger but this gun has it.
I really mind it and it drives me crazy when I'm at the house dry firing, but not when I'm shooting it. If it doesn't go away it may get polished. Any links on how to do this? I worked as a metal polisher for years and have broad technical knowledge and access to a machine shop.
I've been waiting for this gun for a long time, and I am really happy with it. But damn this carbine shooter needs a lot of trigger time on pistols before I can say I'm "good".
theblackknight
06-11-13, 21:26
You basically want to polish where the trigger bar contacts that sear lobe, where the trigger bar contacts the safety plunger, and then on the back of the sear where it contacts the striker. Some people polish the whole trigger bar as it makes carbon removal easier.
This shows a full trigger job, for you just polish all contact areas.
http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf
Thanks buddy. A simple polish is something I can handle for sure, but I think I'll run several hundred through this pistol before I take it on. Right now none of the features of the gun are preventing me from hitting where I want, I am the only factor doing that. Once I've caught up a bit I will address the issues.
Overall I had a great day, we shot three new firearms to the family collection, and several newer guns. It was great to get some extended range time (4 hours, and I have a kid, so that's pretty amazing)... :)
I'll be spending my lunch breaks with this pistol.
theblackknight
06-12-13, 20:37
I know some guys who can dry fire AT work. Lucky fuqers.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
davebee456
06-14-13, 21:59
look for a G (2003) to M (2008) serial number used gen 3 Glock 19----
acaixguard
06-18-13, 13:02
I finally got to handle a recent production M&P9 today. The sample I examined had an ok trigger. It wasn't gritty and reset was pretty distinct. The break tough, is still noticeably heavier than a stock Glock, and substantially more so compared to a PPQ.
I've been eyeing an M&P for years, but there were always issues about it that kept me from buying one. The one remaining factor holding me back from getting one now is the auto forward issue. At a Ken Hackathorn class, he mentioned that during auto forwarding, some M&P's have a tendency to skip the top round of the new mag, those resulting in an empty chamber. Does anyone know if this issue has been addressed?
I finally got to handle a recent production M&P9 today. The sample I examined had an ok trigger. It wasn't gritty and reset was pretty distinct. The break tough, is still noticeably heavier than a stock Glock, and substantially more so compared to a PPQ.
I've been eyeing an M&P for years, but there were always issues about it that kept me from buying one. The one remaining factor holding me back from getting one now is the auto forward issue. At a Ken Hackathorn class, he mentioned that during auto forwarding, some M&P's have a tendency to skip the top round of the new mag, those resulting in an empty chamber. Does anyone know if this issue has been addressed?
Most all factory guns have a trigger pull of around five to five and a half. GEN 3's are this way and GEN 4 Glocks are in the 6-6.5 range (FYI). So the trigger in the M&P is NOT going to be heavier than a factory Glock.
The PPQ is in a world of its own.
Autoforwarding is the direct cause of over inserting a heavy object (mag) into a light object (pistol). Or striking the rear of the grip as you insert the mag. Since you mentioned Ken, he refers to the mag change as a "finesse drill." Most people treat mag changes as a non-finesse drill (read heavy handed).
Most all guns can and will autoforward (if hit hard enough). The M&P is no different and is probably the most susceptible to this because their slide catches are a "wear" item and need to be changed out every 4-5K.
C4
acaixguard
06-18-13, 13:42
Wow, not sure if I got a bad sample to try then. I actually tried the M&P9, Shield (in .40), and a Gen4 Glock side by side. The Glock had the lightest trigger break out of the 3 for sure, followed by the Shield, and then the M&P9. I had to use way more pressure than I'm used to in order to break the trigger on the M&P9.
I'm actually not overly concerned about auto forwarding itself, as my G19 will do this under the conditions you described. However, I am concerned that the top round would be skipped over if auto forwarding. That, I cannot accept.
Thanks for the feedback!
Wow, not sure if I got a bad sample to try then. I actually tried the M&P9, Shield (in .40), and a Gen4 Glock side by side. The Glock had the lightest trigger break out of the 3 for sure, followed by the Shield, and then the M&P9. I had to use way more pressure than I'm used to in order to break the trigger on the M&P9.
I'm actually not overly concerned about auto forwarding itself, as my G19 will do this under the conditions you described. However, I am concerned that the top round would be skipped over if auto forwarding. That, I cannot accept.
Thanks for the feedback!
You can get burs and things in guns that cause strange trigger pulls. Case in point, had a student with a GEN 3 Glock. Trigger pull was north of 10LBS. It did not have any of the NY1 or "+" connector in it. Cause? Factory connector was out of spec.
Any time a gun autoforwards, you should expect the worst (as an error has occurred). Typically (not always), the cause is the end user (not the firearm). So I wouldn't fault the gun.
C4
I can make my March 2012 M&P autoforward 99% of the time when I try. If I'm not specifically trying to autoforward it, it will do it maybe 5% of the time. It has always picked the round up whether the mag is partial or full.
I've decided to embrace the autoforward issue with this M&P since it does it consistently and reliably enough.
theblackknight
06-18-13, 19:48
Use the slide release "load" technique(google if you dont know) and you wont have a unexpected autoforward, but of all times I tried to, I never had the slide magically auto forward on a empty chamber.
For me M&P's, Glocks and Beretta all autoforward if I want them too.
Like Grant mentioned , if you are getting this a lot, you are too agro on the reloads, and are for sure a lot slower then you should be.
Wow, not sure if I got a bad sample to try then. I actually tried the M&P9, Shield (in .40), and a Gen4 Glock side by side. The Glock had the lightest trigger break out of the 3 for sure, followed by the Shield, and then the M&P9. I had to use way more pressure than I'm used to in order to break the trigger on the M&P9.
I'm actually not overly concerned about auto forwarding itself, as my G19 will do this under the conditions you described. However, I am concerned that the top round would be skipped over if auto forwarding. That, I cannot accept.
Thanks for the feedback!
Most people treat mag changes as a non-finesse drill (read heavy handed).
I'm definitely heavy handed with mine but I never thought much of it. I'm going to have to focus on moving myself in the other direction.
I never had an autoforeward problem, but had it happen occasionally. Due to this thread I have been trying the gun-to mag method ( not shoving the mag into the gun) and have not had any issues. It's not enough to d definitive for me, but it's definitely much smoother more consistently this way, so thank y'all.
I'm definitely heavy handed with mine but I never thought much of it. I'm going to have to focus on moving myself in the other direction.
In my experience, M&Ps will pick up the round during auto forwarding with ball ammo. It is when you add JHPs into the mix is when they fail. So, since you will/should be using JHPs to protect yourself or others, try your hardest to train yourself away from auto forwarding.
Grant, I am sorry if you just didn't feel like replying to me and I am adding redundant info into this thread but I asked in another thread how I can determine if my MP9 has the 1:10 twist barrel?
I field stripped my gun and I don't see any indication of twist rate. This particular gun arrived at the dealer on May 18th.
Thanks in advance.
...and even if you DO get auto-forwards, don't make the mistake of depending upon them, instead of one's chosen method of dropping the slide.
That's been discussed in Training, including a pretty extensive thread that had a lot of input form Jason Falla, in particular.
Grant, I am sorry if you just didn't feel like replying to me and I am adding redundant info into this thread but I asked in another thread how I can determine if my MP9 has the 1:10 twist barrel?
I field stripped my gun and I don't see any indication of twist rate. This particular gun arrived at the dealer on May 18th.
Thanks in advance.
There is no real way to tell (that I am aware of) other than doing it the old fashioned way:
Sinclair’s Simple Twist Rate Measurement Method
If are unsure of the twist rate of the barrel, you can measure it yourself in a couple of minutes. You need a good cleaning rod with a rotating handle and a jag with a fairly tight fitting patch. Utilize a rod guide if you are accessing the barrel through the breech or a muzzle guide if you are going to come in from the muzzle end. Make sure the rod rotates freely in the handle under load. Start the patch into the barrel for a few inches and then stop. Put a piece of tape at the back of the rod by the handle (like a flag) or mark the rod in some way. Measure how much of the rod is still protruding from the rod guide. You can either measure from the rod guide or muzzle guide back to the flag or to a spot on the handle. Next, continue to push the rod in until the mark or tape flag has made one complete revolution. Re-measure the amount of rod that is left sticking out of the barrel. Use the same reference marks as you did on the first measurement. Next, subtract this measurement from the first measurement. This number is the twist rate. For example, if the rod has 24 inches remaining at the start and 16 inches remain after making one revolution, you have 8 inches of travel, thus a 1:8 twist barrel.
C4
...and even if you DO get auto-forwards, don't make the mistake of depending upon them, instead of one's chosen method of dropping the slide.
That's been discussed in Training, including a pretty extensive thread that had a lot of input form Jason Falla, in particular.
A lot of good info here, and in the thread with Falla. I've always thought of auto forwarding as a 'technique' but now I see light. I'm definitely going to start pushing myself with the 'gun to mag' finesse method and I'll probably put in a new slide stop for good measure.
A lot of good info here, and in the thread with Falla. I've always thought of auto forwarding as a 'technique' but now I see light. I'm definitely going to start pushing myself with the 'gun to mag' finesse method and I'll probably put in a new slide stop for good measure.
You are not alone. Many people do and this simply isn't a good idea.
C4
Thanks for the reply Grant. That seems like an interesting technique.
You are not alone. Many people do and this simply isn't a good idea.
C4
IIRC, a particular handgun course DVD put a little emphasis on the 'auto forwarding technique' and that is probably why it stuck in my head...
The PPQ is in a world of its own.
C4
Not trying to pee on an M&P thread, but I can't agree more.
Rattlehead
06-20-13, 01:24
In my experience, M&Ps will pick up the round during auto forwarding with ball ammo. It is when you add JHPs into the mix is when they fail. So, since you will/should be using JHPs to protect yourself or others, try your hardest to train yourself away from auto forwarding.
I have four and everyone does it regardless of ammo being used. I instinctively sweep my hand forward to re-grip after the mag is inserted which inadvertently causes autoforwarding since I'm hitting it at the 45 degree angle. If insert at 90 it generally won't autoforward. I don't like having to think that much at a match.
OK:
So a bunch of people have come on hear to complain about Auto Forwarding with the MP9.
Well the other day I had to try it and yes if I slam the mag in using a downward motion with my pistol hand and an aggressive upward motion with my mag hand my gun autoforwards. It shocked me to be honest... I can also smack the mag and make it auto forward.
But but are pretty aggressive motions.
So my question to the entire community is does the MP9 Autoforward more than other striker fire pistols of similar design or not? My father is running an FN FNS and I am going to slam a mag home next time I'm at his place to see how it handles, the guns are so similar I am really curious.
Rattlehead
06-21-13, 23:52
So my question to the entire community is does the MP9 Autoforward more than other striker fire pistols of similar design or not?
In my experience, yes.
I've had older Gen Glock's do it, but I had to make an effort, and those have been few and far between. I have friends that it happens to occasionally on Glock's, however auto forwarding appears to be most prominent with M&P's. At least, the M&P's require the least effort to cause it to auto forward.
Auto forwarding on a firm mag insertion I can deal with if I have to, although I would prefer it not to happen. Auto forwarding and jamming with good quality JHP ammo, that I can't deal with. Some M&P 9'S from a few years ago apparently had this problem . If any currently produced ones still have this issue, I don't know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-w2i7OWkyY
theblackknight
06-22-13, 01:53
Please, go buy a timer. Now, with a open top rig, try to get a dry fire or live fire reload around 1.00 flat shot to shot. You don't need to concentrate on seating the ****ing magazine. Of all the things subjectively terktical trainers claim is hard to do under critical dynamic butt clinch stress, seating a magazine isn't one of them. So quit doing it so hard, because it's making you slow.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.