View Full Version : Centurion Arms BCGs - any experiences?
I just noticed Weapon Outfitters is carrying Centurion Arms BCGs: http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/centurion-arms-bolt-carrier-group.html
Anyone have any experience with them? I noticed they opted to go without HP testing but they are Carpenter 158. Would be interesting to know who supplies them.
I just noticed Weapon Outfitters is carrying Centurion Arms BCGs: http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/centurion-arms-bolt-carrier-group.html
Anyone have any experience with them? I noticed they opted to go without HP testing but they are Carpenter 158. Would be interesting to know who supplies them.
No direct experience but everything else from Centurion is GTG so I'd say these would be also and the price wasn't bad either.
I don't know if they've offered them before. Just on their reputation alone, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
snakedoctor
06-07-13, 19:59
My upper I purchased directly from Monty came with a C4 BCG. I've shot about 400 rounds of Federal with it and haven't had one problem. I'd buy another one if I didn't already have 2 extra BCM BCG's
It says that high pressure testing was deliberately avoided as it greatly reduces bolt life. Is this a true statement?
Just on their reputation alone, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
Exactly.
vereceleritas
06-07-13, 23:00
It says that high pressure testing was deliberately avoided as it greatly reduces bolt life. Is this a true statement?
Well it depends how you define 'greatly' but yes, its true. All other things equal, a bolt that's fired a proof round will have a shorter life than one which hasn't. Its a destructive means of testing which is outdated in my opinion. I believe Daniel Defense and KAC also forgo HPT on their bolts as well.
Last I was told DD does HP/MPI testing on their stuff.
Well it depends how you define 'greatly' but yes, its true. All other things equal, a bolt that's fired a proof round will have a shorter life than one which hasn't. Its a destructive means of testing which is outdated in my opinion. I believe Daniel Defense and KAC also forgo HPT on their bolts as well.
vereceleritas
06-08-13, 06:57
Last I was told DD does HP/MPI testing on their stuff.
I stand corrected. Just checked and it seems they do high pressure test their bolts.
Regarding Centurion BCGs, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one even without the HPT. Like others have said, Centurion has a great reputation and will likely stand by their product.
I've been running two since 09 without any problems.
One has run about 500 rds-mostly suppressed. The other has between 1500-2000 rds thru an LMT SBR-mostly suppressed.
Ammo mostly Hornady tap, mk 262 mod 1 and xm193.
When I asked ML what kind of bolt he used (in 09) the reply IIRC was "full auto mil spec." I've been very pleased and wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
I like Centurion rails, but standing by their products isn't good enough in my book when it comes to a component as central to functioning correctly as a BCG. Replacement of a defective part is small consolation while taking fire. Are not the odds of failure greater on average without HPT? If I recall correctly, Colt, BCM and LMT all do HPT. IMHO Centurion needs to do more to explain why the best AR makers have it wrong. Or include a disclaimer that while no MPT may extend part life in general, a specific defect is more likely to be missed, hence these BCG's should only be used for non-survival purposes.
I would rather do preventive replacement X,000 rounds earlier than save a few bucks when lives are on the line.
Replacement of a defective part is small consolation while taking fire.
Or include a disclaimer that while no MPT may extend part life in general, a specific defect is more likely to be missed, hence these BCG's should only be used for non-survival purposes.
I would rather do preventive replacement X,000 rounds earlier than save a few bucks when lives are on the line.
I'm pretty sure there's a good reason for just about anything that Centurion does. The guy behind the wheel of that company is really smart, and has a reputation that speaks for itself. If I had seen these bcg's I would have bought these instead of the RCA ones that I sprung for last week. :(
Besides, how many prolonged firefights are retired postal workers getting into these days? :p
Obscenejesster
06-08-13, 15:38
I had no idea Centurion made BCG's. Next BCG I get will most likely be one. I'm sure they are top notch.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
"Prolonged?" Who said? How about just that one urgent shot when your loved ones are in danger? Retired postal workers are as likely as anyone else to need a self defense weapon. A hidden defect that turns my gun into an awkward club is kinda serious whether it's a couple of home invaders or holding off a horde of zombies.
Centurion is upfront about why the don't do MPI testing, i.e. shorter life cycle. Fair enough, and germane for a range toy. Because The guy behind Centurion is smart with a good reputation does not address the fact that MPI can expose hidden defects. If you depend on your AR for potential life or death situations why would you not want every possible assurance that it's going to function when needed?
Am I missing something here? The website says they are MPI. It doesn't say anything about HP. MPI will not shorten the life of the bolt.
If it's the same procedure used in ship construction, they sprinkle magnetic dust on the metal and apply magnets. The dust, when magnetized, will expose defects in the metal that would have been missed to the naked eye.
I believe some folks are confusing HPT and MPI. ;)
Oops, my bad. I misled myself looking at IG's MPI/HP reference. Not sure how lack of HP test affects reliability.
Given Monty's MOS, as well as reputation, I doubt he'd do anything that he believed would give the end user an increased probability of failing when it counted. I'd have no prob. running his BCG in a go to rifle.
RogerinTPA
06-08-13, 18:28
Good for Centurion Arms for providing another source for quality BCGs.
Some people need to take a deep breath and re-read what has been posted. MPI doesn't shorten life, the reference was to HP.
justin_247
06-08-13, 19:16
I would buy any product from Centurion Arms with confidence.
I would buy any product from Centurion Arms with confidence.
This.
If Monty says that they are USGI, then they are. That is a known quantity and I am comfortable with that.
FWIW I don't think Novekse HP tests their bolts either.
FWIW I don't think Novekse HP tests their bolts either.
.
Noveske used to batch HPT their bolts. I'm sure they still do.
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While researching on HPT/MPI bolts, I read that MPI without HPT is useless? Since you MPI to check if maintained after the HPT.
Cracks are exposed by the HPT.
It costs a lot of your bolt life. I'd prefer neither, but in a shot peened Carpenter 158 bolt.
2000+ on my CA Recce Upper with C4 BCG, no problems here.
A mix of Federal GMM 77 SMK and XM193 mostly.
EzGoingKev
06-09-13, 20:31
If you are consistently buying you bar stock from the same company that QC checks its product then once you get past the first few batches I think the HPT testing just shortens the life of the parts.
MPI will only reveal surface cracks. I think x-raying the parts would reveal more.
In the end, Monte @ Centurion has a great reputation for selling top notch products. I would use anything from him with confidence.
justin_247
06-09-13, 20:31
Cracks are exposed by the HPT.
It costs a lot of your bolt life.
I don't mean to derail this thread, but neither of these are necessarily true. If the HPT is conducted improperly, it can shorten the life span of the bolt. However, the people who developed the requirements for the HPT know exactly what the capabilities of those materials are, which are usually far beyond what the materials are subjected to by the HPT. High pressure hydraulic lines in aircraft are subjected to a type of HPT prior to installation, and the pressure to which they are subjected, which are beyond what they are operated at, are usually far less than what they are capable of handling.
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Noveske used to batch HPT their bolts. I'm sure they still do.
.
I wasn't aware of that. On their site it just says the bolts are shot peened and MP tested.
justin_247
06-09-13, 20:33
MPI will only reveal surface cracks. I think x-raying the parts would reveal more.
In the end, Monte @ Centurion has a great reputation for selling top notch products. I would use anything from him with confidence.
I agree... but X-ray testing is more labor-intensive. HPT can reveal subsurface abnormalities, although not as well as X-ray testing can.
fallenromeo
06-10-13, 12:07
Just posting what I received in an email from weapon outfitters about these. I don't know if this is true, but WO has been a legit dealer, and Monty has always done top notch stuff, so take this as you will.
Our friends at Centurion Arms run a good shop, with a career Naval Commando and gun geek at the helm designing and producing the best upper receivers and parts money can buy. By utilizing their contacts in the industry developed from a long career in Special Operations and weapons design, Centurion is now one of the few companies that has access to genuine, Mil Spec components for their bolt carrier groups.
As you know, most companies have reverse engineered the AR-15/M-16, and only a select few produce things to the highest standards. These Centurion Arms Bolt Carrier Groups use Carpenter 158 bolts, Chrome lined gas keys, and chrome lined carriers all from the same manufacturer who makes these for the military.
So if this is true, and I have no reason to think it isn't, I am guessing the carriers are coming from either FN or Colt? Anyone else want to chime in?
So if this is true, and I have no reason to think it isn't, I am guessing the carriers are coming from either FN or Colt? Anyone else want to chime in?
Could be CMT also, right? FN and Colt apparently aren't the only mil-spec manufacturers. I posted a thread here a month or so ago asking about the NSN number for the M16/M4 bolt that I looked up online and it showed Colt wasn't the only one making them per mil-spec.
Google these NSN #'s: 1005-00-992-7285 and 1005-01-505-1035
The bolt that came with the bolt carrier group I received from him with my mk12 upper back in 2010 was an FN bolt. Carrier did not have any marking.
Could be CMT also, right?
As far as I know, yes.
fallenromeo
06-13-13, 16:28
Just received one of these on accident from weapon outfitters. The carrier is well made, the bolt is marked MPI. I am not going to put any rounds through it as it was not supposed to come to me, but on the surface, this appears to be just as well made as all the other parts CA has put out.
ZINCOGNITO
06-28-13, 21:19
I'm confused. I know this BCG is new but the lack of reviews/testing makes me think it has been brushed aside by the industry. So far I've read some very valid objections without a response from CA. I'm in need of a quality mil spec BCG, why should anyone buy this over BCM, LMT and Colt?
For what it's worth I just got one of these bcg and I am very happy with it. You can tell it is very well made and I really like the finish on the carrier. I have not really been able to put a lot of rounds through it yet but I am very confident that it is just like all the other Centurion parts in that they are top quality.
Because CA is busy doing real world stuff and his military duty eats alot of his time.
I'm confused. I know this BCG is new but the lack of reviews/testing makes me think it has been brushed aside by the industry. So far I've read some very valid objections without a response from CA. I'm in need of a quality mil spec BCG, why should anyone buy this over BCM, LMT and Colt?
If you feel better with BCM, LMT, etc, then BUY that instead....why bitch and moan about CA?
ZINCOGNITO
06-29-13, 15:02
If you feel better with BCM, LMT, etc, then BUY that instead....why bitch and moan about CA?
I never said those brands made me "feel better". If asking for clarification or fact based numbers is something you consider bitching and moaning, you need to work on your sensitivity.
IG: I was not aware that CA was a one man show nor he was active duty. We'll find out when we find out. Thanks
dookie1481
06-30-13, 00:13
Holy shitsnacks, the guy produces good products, is obviously a gun nerd, and has real-world experience using similar products. What is the problem? KAC is pretty revered and they don't HP test, and Trey pretty adequately (IMO) articulated why.
If you're worried about it... and this actually applies to HPI tested bolts as well, just shoot 500 rounds before relying upon it for anything. If a bolt is going to break prematurely, it'll be then. If it lasts the first 500 it will last the next 5000 and more.
DreadPirateMoyer
06-30-13, 02:43
If you're worried about it... and this actually applies to HPI tested bolts as well, just shoot 500 rounds before relying upon it for anything. If a bolt is going to break prematurely, it'll be then. If it lasts the first 500 it will last the next 5000 and more.
Going to need some evidence on that claim. I've had quality bolts break at 2500 on properly-gassed guns.
I really don't think a blanket claim like that holds water.
Because CA is busy doing real world stuff and his military duty eats alot of his time.
This makes it even more impressive that he is churning out some high quality and innovative gear. Imagine what Monty could do if he had more time to devote to CA.
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