View Full Version : In other news "man tased, pronounced brain dead"
jklaughrey
06-07-13, 18:55
I guess exercise can kill you?
http://www.krem.com/news/Officers-shoot-man-behaving-erratically-on-South-Hill-210513291.html
SPOKANE, Wash. -- The man tased outside of Oz Fitness was confirmed brain dead Friday by doctors according to the Spokane County Medical Examiner.
Witnessed said Spokane County Sheriff’s deputies tased the man around 7:00 p.m. outside of the gym. Investigators said the man became unresponsive as deputies struggled to arrest him. Deputies and EMS provided life saving measures according to deputies.
Authorities on the scene also received medical treatment.
Deputies remained on the scene overnight and into the morning hours investigating.Regal Street between 55th and 57th re-opened around 9:00 a.m. Friday. Authorities closed the road Thursday night to investigate a tasing outside of the Oz Fitness.
Authorities were also inside Oz Fitness which was closed until 6:20 a.m. for investigators. The gym usually opens at about 4:00 a.m.
Witnesses said man who was tased became belligerent inside of the gym. The shirtless man was allegedly lifting weights when he dropped one. He yelled at the weight, started punching equipment, and punched a hole in the wall according to Oz Fitness members. They said the man even threw a towel dispenser and cursed at other customers.
"The guy, he was just kind of working out and he was kind of intense," said Isaac Alvarado, a witness. "But it started escalating to the point where he started yelling, throwing the weights and the staff members were trying to calm him down, and he was kind of resisting them for a little while."
Gym members told the front desk about the disturbance. The man then left the building where he was tased.
Both Spokane County Sheriff’s deputies and Spokane police officers responded to the scene. Investigators taped off the area Thursday night. They said there was such a large police response because they did not know the man's condition at the time
Oz Fitness employees said the man was a member of the gym.
Earlier in the week, Spokane police responded to a disorderly conduct call from the same man. Officers did not arrest the man at the time. Police said the man’s behavior in their confrontation with him was similar to what happened Thursday night.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Voodoochild
06-07-13, 20:27
I wonder what he was on?
Possible roid rage. Or some other supplement that is out there amongst the hundreds of them out there.
Possible roid rage.
I've seen similar activity in people who I know for a fact are not taking anything. I have no idea what it is, whether it's simply unbalanced and aggressive people being attracted to body building or body building somehow contributing to mental unbalance and aggressiveness in some people.
But I've seen it enough in my life that I simply avoid the gym environment.
SeriousStudent
06-07-13, 20:51
My first thought as well.
jklaughrey
06-07-13, 20:54
Update. Police are calling it "delirium". Nice idiopathic catch all when you don't know and autopsy and toxicology results aren't completed.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Update. Police are calling it "delirium". Nice idiopathic catch all when you don't know and autopsy and toxicology results aren't completed.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Excited delirium is a well known thing, especially to law enforcement.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
jklaughrey
06-07-13, 21:10
Excited delirium is a well known thing, especially to law enforcement.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I'm well aware of that. I on a professional level though would be more apt to tell media it's under investigation and lab results are pending, versus using the old standard one liners that have been in use since the 50's.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Better than calling it "Hulking Out."
It's a shame the guy died over something like this, but given the level of aggressiveness he demonstrated I have no problem with an officer feeling the need to tase him.
He was engaged in actions that might under the right conditions justify deadly force.
Even money he was wearing a Tap Out shirt.
:D
SWATcop556
06-07-13, 23:50
Even money he was wearing a Tap Out shirt.
:D
Ok I "lol'd" on that one. Nicely done.
Angry meathead storming out of the gym at the police?
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Waiting for the tox report but I will wager he was using one or more of the usual suspects that already put strain on your heart.
I on a professional level though would be more apt to tell media it's under investigation and lab results are pending, versus using the old standard one liners that have been in use since the 50's.
Your thread title seems to insinuate the taser as the cause, couldn't that wait for official results?
jklaughrey
06-08-13, 10:39
Your thread title seems to insinuate the taser as the cause, couldn't that wait for official results?
That was the title of the news report. Not my own personal title.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Possible roid rage. Or some other supplement that is out there amongst the hundreds of them out there.
have you ever used/taken steroids???
95% of them do not effect your state of mind to a degree that would cause you to act in said way.
he sounds like a repeat offender moron type.
Although often attributed to illicit substances, delerium can be caused by a number of things including infections, electrolyte derangement, head trauma, etc. In other words, it is a symptom - not a cause.
If I had to guess, I'd say cocaine, meth, steroids and GHB are the most common substances that I see in weight lifters that cause excited delirium. GHB is particularly interesting since it is common in weight lifters because it raises growth hormone levels, causes delirium, and is very hard to detect on tox screening.
Another point to remember is that unexpected deaths often occur due to complications brought on by aggressive restraints. Many of them suffer asphyxia or rhabodmyolysis from having a bunch of people holding them down. In other words, I'd be surprised if it was the taser that resulted in his death as it is far more likely to something else.
I've seen similar activity in people who I know for a fact are not taking anything. I have no idea what it is, whether it's simply unbalanced and aggressive people being attracted to body building or body building somehow contributing to mental unbalance and aggressiveness in some people.
But I've seen it enough in my life that I simply avoid the gym environment.
I have spent 30+ years in gyms from coast to coast and in various countries, and I have found it to be one of the least dangerous places I may find myself, and I'm no tough guy.
Although often attributed to illicit substances, delerium can be caused by a number of things including infections, electrolyte derangement, head trauma, etc. In other words, it is a symptom - not a cause.
If I had to guess, I'd say cocaine, meth, steroids and GHB are the most common substances that I see in weight lifters that cause excited delirium. GHB is particularly interesting since it is common in weight lifters because it raises growth hormone levels, causes delirium, and is very hard to detect on tox screening.
Another point to remember is that unexpected deaths often occur due to complications brought on by aggressive restraints. Many of them suffer asphyxia or rhabodmyolysis from having a bunch of people holding them down. In other words, I'd be surprised if it was the taser that resulted in his death as it is far more likely to something else.
id have to agree.
more likely the officer(s) laying on his back or choking him for a any amount of time while another officer attempted to cuff him was the cause of brain death due to asphyxiation...
wonder if the gym had a camera system
Although often attributed to illicit substances, delerium can be caused by a number of things including infections, electrolyte derangement, head trauma, etc. In other words, it is a symptom - not a cause.
If I had to guess, I'd say cocaine, meth, steroids and GHB are the most common substances that I see in weight lifters that cause excited delirium. GHB is particularly interesting since it is common in weight lifters because it raises growth hormone levels, causes delirium, and is very hard to detect on tox screening.
It's a strong central nervous system depressant, and they use it to relax. The GH raising effects are nonsense in terms actual reasons people, including some bbers, use it. That's a smoke screen. Never heard of, nor seen one take it before going to the gym as you're likely to fall asleep, like having a few strong drinks and a zanax before going to the gym, not generally conducive to productive workouts. It's CNS effects have found medical related used as a general anesthetic, insomnia, clinical depression, and narcolepsy, etc. It's not associated with excited delirium. Finding the person passed out yes, excited, not so much.
But, mix some meth, some GHB, a drink, and some (add chemical here) and a "problem" personality, and you get all sorts of reactions.
All of which is a WAG at this time of course. Not gonna get into the whole "roid rage" topic as it's not generally a productive conversation I find, but no steroid alone will cause anyone to go from mild mannered guy to loony tune who is behaving as this guy was apparently behaving.
High androgen steroids, in high doses, combined with other chems like meth, cocaine, etc (not uncommon) and a problem personality, does not end well in many cases. AAS may be a contributing factor when combined with some personalities, but they are very low on the list of "makes you turn into a raving A Hole to the point cops need to be called and you get tased" drugs regardless of media reporting and the like.
Angry meathead storming out of the gym at the police?
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Waiting for the tox report but I will wager he was using one or more of the usual suspects that already put strain on your heart.
Yup. :dance3:
Voodoochild
06-08-13, 17:50
Better than calling it "Hulking Out."
It's a shame the guy died over something like this, but given the level of aggressiveness he demonstrated I have no problem with an officer feeling the need to tase him.
He was engaged in actions that might under the right conditions justify deadly force.
Even money he was wearing a Tap Out shirt.
:D
Other contenders are affliction or Ed Hardy.
PA PATRIOT
06-08-13, 17:53
more likely the overweight officer yaying on his back or choking him for a ridiculous amount of time while another officer attempted to cuff him was the cause of brain death due to asphyxiation...
Pretty Bold statement there, any evidence to back up such a BS claim on "this" incident or are you just making wild assumptions based on absolutely no fact?
The term "excited delirium" was coined about 10 years ago for just thst reason.
Explain the unexplsinable
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Voodoochild
06-08-13, 18:32
id have to agree.
more likely the overweight officer yaying on his back or choking him for a ridiculous amount of time while another officer attempted to cuff him was the cause of brain death due to asphyxiation...
wonder if the gym had a camera system
Vash do you have any concrete evidence to prove your theory? If so post it. If not then I suggest you edit your post. Speculation of that sort is uncalled for.
The usual ignorant statement.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
It's a strong central nervous system depressant, and they use it to relax. The GH raising effects are nonsense in terms actual reasons people, including some bbers, use it. That's a smoke screen. Never heard of, nor seen one take it before going to the gym as you're likely to fall asleep, like having a few strong drinks and a zanax before going to the gym, not generally conducive to productive workouts. It's CNS effects have found medical related used as a general anesthetic, insomnia, clinical depression, and narcolepsy, etc. It's not associated with excited delirium. Finding the person passed out yes, excited, not so much.
Don't believe everything that you read in lay literature. GHB is a little tricky. Although it is classically described as a depressant, there are studies suggesting that it has stimulatory effects in a number of people:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15915404
We get a handful of patients who come in looking like mephedrone ("bath salts") intoxication and it turns out to be GHB. It also has nasty withdrawal in regular users that is essentially indistinguishable from DT's which is the classic example of excited delirium.
The term "excited delirium" was coined about 10 years ago for just thst reason.
Explain the unexplsinable
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Excited or agitated delirium is definitely not unexplainable. It is a symptom and can be fatal if the cause is not rapidily identified and corrected.
Don't believe everything that you read in lay literature.
I'd hope you know me better then that my friend. ;)
GHB is a little tricky. Although it is classically described as a depressant, there are studies suggesting that it has stimulatory effects in a number of people:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15915404
We get a handful of patients who come in looking like mephedrone ("bath salts") intoxication and it turns out to be GHB. It also has nasty withdrawal in regular users that is essentially indistinguishable from DT's which is the classic example of excited delirium.
Tasers are a hot topic in our region. Some LE agencies are reluctant to purchase them, because of bad press such as this. Every time someone dies after being tased, the media attributes the death to the taser and LE agencies are reluctant to issue equipment that will open a new avenue for criticism.
I would be interested to know what turns up in the toxicology screen.
Tasers are a hot topic in our region. Some LE agencies are reluctant to purchase them, because of bad press such as this. Every time someone dies after being tased, the media attributes the death to the taser and LE agencies are reluctant to issue equipment that will open a new avenue for criticism.
I would be interested to know what turns up in the toxicology screen.
http://www.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2012/Wake_Forest_Baptist_Study_Suggests_Tasers_Dont_Cause_Cardiac_Complications.htm
I wonder what he was on?
Maybe he had an underlying (or overt) mental illness.
http://www.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2012/Wake_Forest_Baptist_Study_Suggests_Tasers_Dont_Cause_Cardiac_Complications.htm
I know two of the three authors of that paper. One of our ED nurses was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got in the way of a deploying taser, caught it in the chest. He did have some dysrhythmias (PVCs) resulting in an overnight stay in the ED's 24-hour obs unit, but the cause-effect could not be established.
Pretty Bold statement there, any evidence to back up such a BS claim on "this" incident or are you just making wild assumptions based on absolutely no fact?
I think the term "wild" might be more of a stretch than anything.
Occurrences like that happen frequently. A simple Google search will show you plenty of evidence.
And what's more likely?
A taser causing his heart to stop pumping blood?
Or the inability to breath due to an officer having to apply extra force because thesuspect was in much better shape than the officer (assumption)
Also please don't think I'm officer bashing. That is not my intention.
Just pointing out a mole likely scenario.
I was an MP in the guard for a few years and I know how strong drunk in fit people are.
And grow up people. We are all adults and we are above Internet bickering
You want examples... Here ya go... Less than 4 months old.
http://rt.com/usa/man-death-police-disabled-534/
“Positional asphyxia is typically the result of an intense struggle and often involves a person who is handcuffed and lying on their stomach after the struggle,” writes the Frederick News Post, based on information by criminologist and former law enforcement officer Dr. George Kirkham. “…People often panic and can’t catch their breath.”
Pretty Bold statement there, any evidence to back up such a BS claim on "this" incident or are you just making wild assumptions based on absolutely no fact?
Although a bit poorly worded in terms of the assumptions about LEO obesity, his larger point about complications arising from physical restraints is valid. Iatrogenic death from asphyxia and other complications related to physical restraints are well described in the medical literature.
It is the reason for the Joint Commission's strict monitoring requirements whenever patients are restrained in a hospital. It is also why experienced emergency physicians prefer a rapid "chemical takedown" to physical restraints when dealing with excited delirium. This may include intubation in refractory cases. Taking control of the airway in this manner allows us to protect the patient in a controlled setting while expediting the necessary diagnostic tests (it is much easier to perform CT's and LP's on sedated and intubated patients).
PA PATRIOT
06-09-13, 20:59
I think the term "wild" might be more of a stretch than anything.
Occurrences like that happen frequently. A simple Google search will show you plenty of evidence.
And what's more likely?
A taser causing his heart to stop pumping blood?
Or the inability to breath due to an officer having to apply extra force because thesuspect was in much better shape than the officer (assumption)
Also please don't think I'm officer bashing. That is not my intention.
Just pointing out a mole likely scenario.
I was an MP in the guard for a few years and I know how strong drunk in fit people are.
And grow up people. We are all adults and we are above Internet bickering
You want examples... Here ya go... Less than 4 months old.
http://rt.com/usa/man-death-police-disabled-534/
“Positional asphyxia is typically the result of an intense struggle and often involves a person who is handcuffed and lying on their stomach after the struggle,” writes the Frederick News Post, based on information by criminologist and former law enforcement officer Dr. George Kirkham. “…People often panic and can’t catch their breath.”
Still no proof of positional asphyxia with this case and your opinion while crude is based on personal assumptions with no evidence what's so ever. Is positional asphyxia a possibility sure but spouting off that "overweight officer yaying on his back or choking him for a ridiculous amount of time" is inflammatory and irresponsible. Once the M/E decides the cause of death then maybe further discussion would be warranted about police interaction with the deceased.
Although a bit poorly worded in terms of the assumptions about LEO obesity, his larger point about complications arising from physical restraints is valid. Iatrogenic death from asphyxia and other complications related to physical restraints are well described in the medical literature.
Agreed,
Vash1023's statement would have been received differently without the inflammatory remarks and if formulated with a neutral tone.
if your that offended by the term "overweight", then the internet is not the place for you...
and its not an assumption once it becomes a stereotype. stereotypes are based in fact.
and im looking forward to that report,
if we ever do see it.....
but ill hold my tongue until further notice. <--- This is a great idea. SeriousStudent.
SeriousStudent
06-09-13, 21:46
I have an even better idea. Let's get the thread back on track, or I'll just close it.
Vash1023, you're an inch away from a baiting infraction. Stop right now, or plan to have some free time away from here.
Back to the actual incident, everyone.
PA PATRIOT
06-09-13, 22:06
I will also take SeriousStudents advice and regress until the M/E's report is made public.
Vash do you have any concrete evidence to prove your theory? If so post it. If not then I suggest you edit your post. Speculation of that sort is uncalled for.
voodoo, its not speculation when your using existing points of reference. the FBI calls that profiling.
this first story explains my point fairly neutrally. the rest are just good examples that i included so i dont look like im grasping at straws.
this happen all to often across the country and saying that my remarks were "speculation" is ignorant and blind.
http://enquirer.com/editions/2000/11/19/loc_arrest_of_unwilling.html
http://www.chicagonewsreport.com/2012/07/video-chicago-police-officer-chokes.html
http://blogs.findlaw.com/sixth_circuit/2013/04/cops-tacking-suffocating-of-naked-lsd-influenced-man-excessive.html
http://madamenoire.com/242576/another-suspect-death-family-of-woman-who-suffocated-in-police-custody-suing-lapd/
this last one is particularly scary.
mainly because the officer put a plastic bag over a suspects head thinking it was a spit bag.... how the FU@K could you possibly think that a big plastic bag was something you could put over someones head and they wouldn't DIE.....
but there were no charges filed because it was viewed as an accident???
http://www.policeone.com/news/90197-Coroner-Confirms-That-Officers-Action-Was-Accidental-in-Drug-Suspects-Suffocating-in-Respirator-Bag/
also for a moderator on this forum who felt the need to correct my previous statement...
i feel that i should point out the fact that you made fun of a stranger who was just killed, because he was at a gym working out and could have been wearing a TAP OUT shirt???
isint that the exact same thing i did? stereotyping???
(i will remove myself from the rest of this conversation for posterity sake)
I have an even better idea. Let's get the thread back on track, or I'll just close it.
Vash1023, you're an inch away from a baiting infraction. Stop right now, or plan to have some free time away from here.
Back to the actual incident, everyone.
sry, was in the middle of posting then saw this after.
i have already removed myself.
my apologies for the final post.
SeriousStudent
06-09-13, 22:24
You don't want to push these buttons.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.