View Full Version : hk p30
Picked one of these up for the first time the other day after a lot of internet research and I must say best feeling handgun there is except for 1911's. Trying to talk myself into letting go about $1000 on one. Anybody have one to chime in about goods and bads?
High Tower
06-07-13, 21:44
I am a huge fan of the P30. Had the .40, now have the 9mm. I like HK pistols for their reliability, durability, and the mag release system. Some don't like DA/SA but I don't mind it.
beschatten
06-07-13, 21:59
It's a good gun. There's plenty of industry professionals that recommend it and tons of reviews all over this site.
If it makes you happy I would get it.
1_click_off
06-07-13, 22:03
I have 2, both 9mm. One V3 and one V1. I really like the light trigger pull of the V1. The V1 is like the V3 in SA mode, but with a slightly longer trigger pull.
I bought the V1 because I do not like safeties and I would like to carry my V3 cocked. The V1 is the closest thing to carring the V3 cocked.
Very high quality, but a total different trigger than Glock. I have a 27 and a 20SF, much rather carry the P30.
Mags are a pain in the butt to get, but I have been collecting over a couple years so I am good there.
1
I picked up a P30 V1 a few months ago and I love the trigger. It took me a while to find one with a LEM trigger but I definitely think it was worth it, I'm not a big fan of the DA/SA. I actually sold my 1911 in order to get this and I don't regret it, the P30 feels better to me and I don't see much of a benefit to .45. If you ever plan on carrying this gun IWB it is worth noting that the stippling on the grip is a bit scratchy.
I am a big fan. The LEM trigger can take some training rounds to adjust to but is a big plus in my book. Only downside is that I have found it hard to run any other trigger type and stay proficient on the the LEM.
I had a P30LS V1. I really liked the trigger and the customizable grip configurations. I swapped the rear sight out for the 10-8 version, and found that to be an upgrade. The pistol was very accurate.
I shoot with a thumbs forward grip. When I ran the gun hard I found that I would ever so slightly ride the slide lock lever, so the pistol would not lock back on an empty mag. I have big hands, and tried to alter my grip but there was no way for me to do it without screwing up how I ran everything else. I traded it to a friend and he has no issues with it.
I carry a p30 v1 IWB daily. I think it is the perfect carry gun and it doesn't hurt that they just melt to your hand. I grabbed mine for top gun supply for well under a grand, thinking it was 839. You might give them a look.
I've never had an issue with scratching of the skin but it seems to bother some. Been wearing my for about 11/2 yrs daily and it hasn't been an issue
I run the P30 & P30L exclusively. I have other pistols just to demo for CCW classes I teach, but the P30 is all I use. I also only use the LEM trigger. I think the LEM trigger is best described as a 2 stage AR trigger. It is different from other handgun triggers & just picking it up and shooting it once or twice for most folks, it feels odd. You have to dedicate some time to learning it. For several years now the P30 has been it for me. I carry one daily, so obviously I am going to recommend you buy one. Others may disagree, but I feel the price is on par with the quality of the pistol and the parts it is made of.
If you do get one, I would most certainly think hard about the LEM. I would also consider the Vickers mod to the trigger guard that Bowie does. You can strip the pistol & do this mod yourself, but stripping an HK is a bit more complicated than a Glock. I do it to all mine as the sharp edge on the guard rubs my finger.
I bought one a couple months back, V2 that I made into a TLG/LEM by changing a couple of springs (very easy to do) anyway, the comments about the slide release lever are true, I have to change my grip slightly, another option is to get short levers for a P-30s From what I've read over at HKpro, these are shorter, and interchange, and fix the problem.. I might look into it. The stock sights suck badly, currently, I have trouble finding the front sight when drawing and firing the pistol, So, one of first things one needs to do is change these... I have a set of Trijicon HD's I'm waiting on my LGS to get a HK sight pusher he ordered in, so I can get them installed.. As far as mags go, right now, Midway has them in stock, (limit 2 per order) as well as HKUSA, I bought mine from HKUSA. I happened to call on a whim last week, expecting to be told they didn't have any, and to my surprise they had them in stock, $33 apiece with a order limit of 5..( they've been getting slammed with orders, so this could've changed.)I bought 5 on the spot, they showed up earlier this week, and considering what happened in Cali yesterday, I'd suggest to anyone if you need mags you better move fast...Other than the sights, I have NO complaints with this pistol at all.. It's high quality, accurate, reliable, and the grip panels ,backstraps allow it to be able to fit just about anyone's hands..
You can modify the slide stop levers if you NEED to with a dremel/hobby sander. After you get some miles on the P30, the ejecton port side slide stop will get loose and rattle a little bit. In my Invictus Appendix carry holster it does do it, but in my Raven Concealment & Safariland Duty holsters it rattles a bit when I walk. Doesnt bother me, but may some folks.
On the mags. They are some of the best pistol mags made. Damn near bomb proof & your P30 mags will work in a P2000sk if you want a BUG.
Also safariland is finally starting to have decent selection of ALS holsters for the P30. I just wished they had one for use with a light. I run Heinie sights on my pistols. I do have one that me & a machinist buddy are working on getting an RMR mounted to. They are very accurate & reliable pistols. At a recent LE training class a buddy had some weak 9mm reloads that his Glock & a few other M&P's wouldn't run on at all. The stuff ran fine in my P30 all day with zero issues.
You can modify the slide stop levers if you NEED to with a dremel/hobby sander. After you get some miles on the P30, the ejecton port side slide stop will get loose and rattle a little bit. In my Invictus Appendix carry holster it does do it, but in my Raven Concealment & Safariland Duty holsters it rattles a bit when I walk. Doesnt bother me, but may some folks.
On the mags. They are some of the best pistol mags made. Damn near bomb proof & your P30 mags will work in a P2000sk if you want a BUG.
Also safariland is finally starting to have decent selection of ALS holsters for the P30. I just wished they had one for use with a light. I run Heinie sights on my pistols. I do have one that me & a machinist buddy are working on getting an RMR mounted to. They are very accurate & reliable pistols. At a recent LE training class a buddy had some weak 9mm reloads that his Glock & a few other M&P's wouldn't run on at all. The stuff ran fine in my P30 all day with zero issues.
on the mags.. you're right, I forgot about that.. They fit my P-2000 as well, Hmm, I wonder, since a P-2000 mag is also used in a USP compact, I wonder if a P-30 mag would also fit in a USP compact? anyone try it?
Mine just went over 17,500 rounds. One FTF, two broken trigger return springs, and that's it. Just shot slightly over 3 inch group at 25 yards unsupported with practice ammo, so accuracy is holding well too. I have Bruce Gray trigger job that addresses LEM's biggest limitation of a long reset; on a micro scale, it does make trigger "nicer", on macro scale it is a waste of 500 bucks, if shipping costs are considered.
Just like for many others, it did take me a bit of time and patience to get used to LEM.
I bought one a couple months back, V2 that I made into a TLG/LEM by changing a couple of springs (very easy to do) anyway, the comments about the slide release lever are true, I have to change my grip slightly, another option is to get short levers for a P-30s From what I've read over at HKpro, these are shorter, and interchange, and fix the problem.. I might look into it. The stock sights suck badly, currently, I have trouble finding the front sight when drawing and firing the pistol, So, one of first things one needs to do is change these... I have a set of Trijicon HD's I'm waiting on my LGS to get a HK sight pusher he ordered in, so I can get them installed.. As far as mags go, right now, Midway has them in stock, (limit 2 per order) as well as HKUSA, I bought mine from HKUSA. I happened to call on a whim last week, expecting to be told they didn't have any, and to my surprise they had them in stock, $33 apiece with a order limit of 5..( they've been getting slammed with orders, so this could've changed.)I bought 5 on the spot, they showed up earlier this week, and considering what happened in Cali yesterday, I'd suggest to anyone if you need mags you better move fast...Other than the sights, I have NO complaints with this pistol at all.. It's high quality, accurate, reliable, and the grip panels ,backstraps allow it to be able to fit just about anyone's hands..
Thanks for the heads up on the mags. I've been waiting for these to come back in stock, just snagged some from Midway.
Psalms144.1
06-08-13, 15:25
I went to a P30 when I got sick of the BS with a string of bad G19s I had a couple of years back. Here are my thoughts:
Pros:
1. Ergonomics - with its adjustable grip, the P30 can be made to "fit" an individual shooter better than any other pistol I've ever used or seen
2. Reliability - my P30 was 100% reliable out of the box, and, over the course of several thousand rounds, never bobbled, even once
3. Accuracy - All HK products tend to exhibit high mechanical accuracy, and the P30 is no different. It is noticeably easier to shoot small groups in deliberate shooting with the P30 than in most any other 9mm pistol I've ever used
Cons:
1. Size - while the barrel and slide are G19ish, the grip is long, so the pistol is noticeably harder to conceal than similar 15-shot 9mms
2. Triggers - the DA/SA on the P30 is not great - tending to be heavy, gritty, and with long reset. The LEM is better, but takes considerable getting used to, and, as others have alluded to, is best used as a dedicated system - being hard to switch back and forth between it and other systems. The LEM trigger on my P30 has the heaviest "wall" and the longest reset of any of the LEM triggers I have (four and counting now). There's not much you can do to improve the trigger barring a VERY expensive trip to Grayguns, or a hit-or-miss trip to Bill Springfield.
3. Accessories/Parts/Mags - parts for the P30 tend to be hard to find, and when you can find them, they command a premium price. For example, like many, I find the stock slide release lever to be unnecessarily long and difficult to work with. The "S" version lever is much better, but, they're rarer than hen's teeth, and you need to be ready to shell out about $80 for it. Likewise, the recoil spring assembly on the P30 is nearly a $100 part. Night sight selection is still limited, and the stock sights suck. Magazines are VERY rare, and command premium prices when you find them
4. Price. Let's be honest, most of us are not made of money. The base price of a P30 with crappy sights and two magazines is more than double that of a Glock or M&P. Parts, as stated, are more expensive, as are magazines. When all is said and done, a decent set-up P30 with good sights, 5 mags, and a decent holster is going to run you in the $1200 range. For me, I can't afford a duplicate pistol as a backup, in the event of a shooting and my pistol becomes evidence.
For me, the cons simply outweigh the pros, even though I dearly love the feel of the pistol and the accuracy. But, for daily carry on and off duty, I'm back to a G19...
Regards,
Kevin
I went to a P30 when I got sick of the BS with a string of bad G19s I had a couple of years back. Here are my thoughts:
Pros:
1. Ergonomics - with its adjustable grip, the P30 can be made to "fit" an individual shooter better than any other pistol I've ever used or seen
2. Reliability - my P30 was 100% reliable out of the box, and, over the course of several thousand rounds, never bobbled, even once
3. Accuracy - All HK products tend to exhibit high mechanical accuracy, and the P30 is no different. It is noticeably easier to shoot small groups in deliberate shooting with the P30 than in most any other 9mm pistol I've ever used
Cons:
1. Size - while the barrel and slide are G19ish, the grip is long, so the pistol is noticeably harder to conceal than similar 15-shot 9mms
2. Triggers - the DA/SA on the P30 is not great - tending to be heavy, gritty, and with long reset. The LEM is better, but takes considerable getting used to, and, as others have alluded to, is best used as a dedicated system - being hard to switch back and forth between it and other systems. The LEM trigger on my P30 has the heaviest "wall" and the longest reset of any of the LEM triggers I have (four and counting now). There's not much you can do to improve the trigger barring a VERY expensive trip to Grayguns, or a hit-or-miss trip to Bill Springfield.
3. Accessories/Parts/Mags - parts for the P30 tend to be hard to find, and when you can find them, they command a premium price. For example, like many, I find the stock slide release lever to be unnecessarily long and difficult to work with. The "S" version lever is much better, but, they're rarer than hen's teeth, and you need to be ready to shell out about $80 for it. Likewise, the recoil spring assembly on the P30 is nearly a $100 part. Night sight selection is still limited, and the stock sights suck. Magazines are VERY rare, and command premium prices when you find them
4. Price. Let's be honest, most of us are not made of money. The base price of a P30 with crappy sights and two magazines is more than double that of a Glock or M&P. Parts, as stated, are more expensive, as are magazines. When all is said and done, a decent set-up P30 with good sights, 5 mags, and a decent holster is going to run you in the $1200 range. For me, I can't afford a duplicate pistol as a backup, in the event of a shooting and my pistol becomes evidence.
For me, the cons simply outweigh the pros, even though I dearly love the feel of the pistol and the accuracy. But, for daily carry on and off duty, I'm back to a G19...
Regards,
Kevin
I have to disagree with you on the mags...I bought 5 last week from HKUSA, $33 apiece, which really isn't bad. As far as I know, they still have some in stock.. CDNN, MidwayUSA all have P-30 mags in stock, right now, CDNN being admittedly pricy. Glock mags are what? maybe $8 cheaper?(Than HKUSA's price) If, they too, can be found? Sure, recoil spring assemblys are expensive, but, aren't they also rated for 20-25,000 rnds before needing changed? Glock springs, as far as I've been told, have over the last couple of years, been continually downgraded, to now, recoil springs should be changed at 2000 rnd intervals.. I had a bad Glock too, I won't go back.. The turning point for me was when my g19 kicked a empty straight up, and it landed in the corner between my glasses and my forehead, and stopped at my left eye... The case was still nice and warm, too.
I'm pretty sure that the P-30 has some parts commonality with the P-2000, as a example Todd Green, when testing the P-30 broke a trigger return spring, didn't have a spare, used one from a P-2000, and carried on until he got the proper spring, and the trigger return spring is pretty much all I've ever heard of breaking, and usually after 7-8000 rnds. Last time I looked at HK parts.net, they're usually in stock and I think, $12-13.( HKUSA, is usually pretty good at having parts in stock, At least every time I called, they had what I wanted, and were pretty quick about getting it out) not Glock cheap, but not obscenely expensive either..I think if one asked around over at HKpro forum you could find out what parts interchange..As far as buying parts, I check with HKUSA first, after all, that's where HKParts.net get all their parts from, and HKUSA is usually cheaper...
Sights..As far as I know, Heinie, 10-8, Trijicon,Meprolight, and pretty sure, Dawson, all make sights for the P-30, I recently bought a set of Trijicon HD's with a red front sight,(similar to Ameriglo Hacks)The rears have black paint around the tritium tubes, For 3-dot sights, these should work great.. All I need now is for my LGS to get the HK sight pusher he ordered in, and I'll get them installed.. Me? I'm not too worried about it getting taken as evidence,(actually, after a shooting, that'd be the last thing I'd be worried about) I've got other handguns I can transition to if need be, Besides, a trip down to the 1911 forum of this board, tells me there's people carrying a lot more expensive 1911's than what a P-30 costs.. Like a Glock, it's a tool, a more expensive tool, but still a tool.. and like a Glock, they make'em everyday..
Psalms144.1
06-08-13, 22:00
Ralph - like everything else, everyone has opinions on the subject - I was in no way trying to bash the P30. Just stating that FOR ME, it doesn't offer anything that my recent production Gen4 G19 does - and it offers that nothing at nearly three times the price.
Luckily, it's a free country, and we can all have our favorite flavor (at least for a while!)
Stay safe!
Regards,
Kevin
Ralph - like everything else, everyone has opinions on the subject - I was in no way trying to bash the P30. Just stating that FOR ME, it doesn't offer anything that my recent production Gen4 G19 does - and it offers that nothing at nearly three times the price.
Luckily, it's a free country, and we can all have our favorite flavor (at least for a while!)
Stay safe!
Regards,
Kevin
Nor am I trying to bash the Glock (although I, admittedly, lost all faith in them) But what I was trying to do was point out that prices, and availabilty of mags, sights, parts, isn't as dire a picture as you painted. All, are available, prices vary, one just has to shop around.. 3 times the price? Where are you shopping at? Maybe twice, But, not having to worry about getting a hot case on my left eye again, is worth it, At least to me... :smile: To each his own.
MarshallDodge
06-09-13, 00:41
I like the P30 with the LEM trigger as well, having a V1 and a V2 version. The V2 works better for me because the trigger return spring is stiffer which makes the reset quicker.
The P30 is a solid pistol that is built well and offers excellent reliability and accuracy.
Personally, I've not cared for Glocks---shot many over many years and Gens---no real issues with the guns---I just like HKs, Walthers, Hi Powers, etc. better. I've owned a P30S 9mm for a couple of years now---truly a terrific pistol---like it a LOT! I do find my P2000 9mm pistol to be better for concealment. Oh, and I went with DA/SA on both---just what I am used to...
Hogsgunwild
06-09-13, 05:42
I went through the same thought process as Psalms144.1 did and concluded that:
1.) I am generally done buying every day carry guns that I know that I won't actually carry every day. The long grip on the P30 was it's main deal breaker for me.
2.) By the time I was set up with Heines and a light LEM trigger, I could have had (and did) buy two PPQs adding night sights. I shoot the two guns equally in the accuracy department but can shoot my PPQs faster, given equal training time on each platform.
3.) The trigger. As much as I love H&Ks, I realized that the platforms with my favorite trigger types (that I perform the best with, as, I do love a good light LEM) are the ones that I have kept. 1911s, M&Ps (four with Apex FFS triggers) and PPQs / P99 compacts.
I only carry the Walthers.
I have kicked myself twice in the last year for trying to be smart and passing on two P30s that were set up the way that I like them for a great price but did manage to satisfy and justify my H&K craving with the purchase of a HK45C and making it a light LEM. It conceals well and has been my favorite .45 since I bought it. My third PPQ in .40 S&W covers that caliber so I feel well rounded without breaking the bank.
Here's a couple specific examples of why I feel the HK is a superior pistol. I have pics & a video to show this, just not the time to post right now. If you take a Glock 19 & a P30, you'll notice the P30 has somewhat of a slight continous ramp on the barrel hood. This allows the barrel to basically sit in the same spot while the slide is moving rearward. The G19 doesn't best I can tell. If you paint a 2 case heads with a shape and manually eject or actually fire them you'll notice the Glock ejector will strike very close to the primer pocket giving less that optimal leverage for ejection. The HK ejector strikes near the outer rim giving more legerage. The ramped barrel hood also allows the case to stay pretty much at the same place in relation to the extractor once the barrel is unlocked throughout the travel of the slide. The Glock barrel tilts more & more as the slide moves rearward which will cause the extractor to slide a bit on the case or the case to "possibly" bind just a bit in the chamber. The P30's ejection port is low & very ample for the case to clear; the Glock is no where near the same in this area & the case commonly strikes the slide at the angled portion of the ejection port causing cases to go up.
The P30 has a very generous angle milled into the slide where the muzzle locks up to give a good clear path for the barrel to move in during cycling. Hold the slide up to a light & look into the muzzle area w/o the barrel being in.
I like Glocks, have ever since I first shot one. I am getting back into the LEO game and will be required to carry either a .40 or .45. Neither option in the Glock line works well for me
(Glock in 9mm+solid, Glock in anything else = ???). The main concern is I will have a SUREFIRE X300 mounted on it. I would have never considered anything other than a Glock in the past and by no means am I going against the brand; however, I am now open to seeking other options for comparison. All that said, has either the P30L or HK45 shown any WML issues like Glock has (particularly in .40)?
I have 2 P30's, a V1 and V2. You can't beat them for quality and reliability. I am still a Glock guy as well and agree with most that the G19 conceals better but that's about it. IMO, you get what you pay for with the P30. Is it worth almost twice the price of a G19 or G17? That's for the individual to decide. I'm a fan of both but I think the P30 is a better pistol money aside.
I like Glocks, have ever since I first shot one. I am getting back into the LEO game and will be required to carry either a .40 or .45. Neither option in the Glock line works well for me
(Glock in 9mm+solid, Glock in anything else = ???). The main concern is I will have a SUREFIRE X300 mounted on it. I would have never considered anything other than a Glock in the past and by no means am I going against the brand; however, I am now open to seeking other options for comparison. All that said, has either the P30L or HK45 shown any WML issues like Glock has (particularly in .40)?
Non issue. I've shot my 9 mm P30 a lot with X300, zero concerns. When mine goes out of holster and on bedside stand, I click on the Surefire. The only issue between X300 and HK pistols exists in HK45c which is not compatible with 300.
It is interesting to see how the same attributes evoke different responses. Two posters above commented on long grip of P30. I think it is perfect. Gives me full purchase and not a mm over it, I have no problem at all concealing it, and I carry in appendix(which is why I switched from G19). I also forgot what G19 reload pinch is, and don't need to have two different mag lengths to avoid it.
I like Glocks, have ever since I first shot one. I am getting back into the LEO game and will be required to carry either a .40 or .45. Neither option in the Glock line works well for me
(Glock in 9mm+solid, Glock in anything else = ???). The main concern is I will have a SUREFIRE X300 mounted on it. I would have never considered anything other than a Glock in the past and by no means am I going against the brand; however, I am now open to seeking other options for comparison. All that said, has either the P30L or HK45 shown any WML issues like Glock has (particularly in .40)?
The Gen 4 Glocks in .40 are gtg with WML. In fact the Gen 4 Glocks in .40 have been pretty much problem free as far as I know. At any rate, the P30 in .40 is a fine platform as well.
If I wanted a pistol with its trigger action type the P30 would be my hands down pick. With the striker fired Walther PPQ being a very accurate and similar pistol in a lot of ways, was its trigger type the main reason you P30 owners chose it over the PPQ ?
If I wanted a pistol with its trigger action type the P30 would be my hands down pick. With the striker fired Walther PPQ being a very accurate and similar pistol in a lot of ways, was its trigger type the main reason you P30 owners chose it over the PPQ ?
I didn't pick one over the other as I own both the V1 PPQ and the P30.
The P30 feels better in the hand, has a solid steel guide rod and steel sights. The P30's grip is better than the already good PPQ and it has a whole range of operating options to choose from. The PPQ comes in one flavor, striker fired. If you're fine with all of the above the PPQ will fill the role just fine.
Edited to add: The PPQ magazine release can be trickier than the P30's to operate because it is so thin......It is easier to miss, although that doesn't detract from the pistol to me.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v36/p238532374-5.jpg
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v26/p1009495854-5.jpg
I love my P30 but only CCW it to and from the range, my carry pistol is its little brother, the P2000SK. Both 9MM, both light LEM.
Tried a G19, Gen 2. Reliable, accurate, but not as enjoyable to shoot a slippery grip and harder on the hand.
Different strokes for different folks.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/P30/C6DBE576-429C-47E3-8189-2C88130DD20F-2143-0000007FF969D5C8.jpg
I didn't pick one over the other as I own both the V1 PPQ and the P30.
The P30 feels better in the hand, has a solid steel guide rod and steel sights. The P30's grip is better than the already good PPQ and it has a whole range of operating options to choose from. The PPQ comes in one flavor, striker fired. If you're fine with all of the above the PPQ will fill the role just fine.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v36/p238532374-5.jpg
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v26/p1009495854-5.jpg
Have you had any issues when transitioning from one pistol to the other and shooting at speed ? While how a pistol feels in the hand can be dependent on ones preference and hand size, I also like the feel of the P30 grip frame better.
SmokinSigs357
06-09-13, 13:06
You can chalk me up as a very happy H&K owner. Love my P30...
However, do yourself a favor and wrap your mitts around a PPQ...love mine as well. You will dig the trigger...
I have both the PPQ and P30 also. I feel the P30 is the better gun when you start looking at the details that were mentioned earlier. Plus it gives a lot of trigger options and it blends well with HKs other pistols (p2000sk, HK45, etc.)
The PPQ is a great option if you want striker fired.
Have you had any issues when transitioning from one pistol to the other and shooting at speed ? While how a pistol feels in the hand can be dependent on ones preference and hand size, I also like the feel of the P30 grip frame better.
Nope, if you saw the number and variety of pistols I own you'd understand. I don't shoot competition any more and I'm proficient enough with all different kinds of pistols. I'm also not an operator and don't play one on TV either! :)
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-09-13, 15:17
The HK P30 is the go-to pistol if you need a zero-drama out of the box bombproof combat handgun. No need to cross your fingers and start wishing and hoping. It costs more.
I have 2 P30's, a V1 and V2. You can't beat them for quality and reliability. I am still a Glock guy as well and agree with most that the G19 conceals better but that's about it. IMO, you get what you pay for with the P30. Is it worth almost twice the price of a G19 or G17? That's for the individual to decide. I'm a fan of both but I think the P30 is a better pistol money aside.
Do you have a preference between the V1 and V2?
Do you have a preference between the V1 and V2?
OM, I generally prefer a lighter trigger pull (ie. Glock "-" connector) so I prefer the V1. I have the springs to convert the V2 to a V1 but both have pros and cons. I think a good compromise is the TLG trigger which I may try on the V2 later on.
Cylinder Head
06-09-13, 22:52
I have a V3 with a trigger job from Triggerwork.net and I absolutely love it. I have other pistols but this one rides in my glove box every day. It is a fantastic pistol once you get used to the usual HK idiosyncrasies, and I have a hard time using any different kind of mag release.
I had one of the early DA/SA P30 and sold it. I also had an HK p2000. The P30 was slightly easier to shoot than the P2000, but the P2000 was more suitable to me for carry for it's size and grip texture (the p30 texture can be hard on clothes IWB).
Both were 100% reliable and no drama. As other's said I would definitely opt for a LEM variant, as mine were DA/SA and the trigger was generally not great though it seems like there are some variants that are pretty good.
For me though, at the twice the price of a Glock and without the same options for sights, worse trigger (DA/SA), and the cost of mags were why I sold those guns.
Also, at this point if I was concerned with ergonomics and reliability I'd probably give a hard look at the Walther PPQ over the P30. Very similar feel, better trigger by most accounts, and more affordable.
I've spent a little time on a P30 DA/SA. Uber reliable and the brass ejected away from the shooter.
I never understood the huge ambidextrous slide release levers.
Are they really used so much, and so necessary that they have to be in the way of EVERYTHING?
The mag release is usable, but not my cup 'o tea.
The triggers are very mediocre to plain nasty.
They're big and clunky.
They're reliable.
They're accurate if you can manage the trigger.
They're ugly. Very ugly.
For my personal needs, they don't fill any role. Too big to CCW, too slow for competition, too ugly to look at, would not kick my Beretta M9A1 off the nightstand for HD.
If I needed an open carry duty gun, they'd be at the top of the list.
Failure2Stop
06-10-13, 09:08
I had a P30 for a while, and it was mostly a very good pistol.
My initial issue was that with my V3 (DA/SA) would occasionally have hammer-follow. This was a known issue on some earlier production guns, showed up on mine at around 2500 rounds, if I recall correctly.
I originally bought it because I am a proponent of bilateral/ambidextrous use, and it was the most ergonomic pistol in that regard. It is also, in my research, the most robust design on the market. Lastly, aside from purpose-built bullseye pistols, the most accurate pistol I have used.
In hindsight, I wish that I had not jumped the gun and bought the DA/SA (ultimately justified to myself that it would be a benefit when teaching students with DA/SA pistols) and instead waited just a bit longer and gone with the LEM. The LEM is definitely something that needs to be trained, but it is a more reliable trigger mechanism in the P30 design.
I ultimately passed off the P30 as it has such a small following anywhere other than with "switched-on" pistol guys, greatly reducing the necessity for me to have one. Contrast that with the ubiquitous G19, which is in use pretty much everywhere, and it was clear what pistol I really needed to be using for teaching/training/competition.
The only reason that the P30 is not at the top of my list for recommendations for people looking for advice on what pistol to buy is foremost; cost, and secondly; the time needed to master the LEM trigger. Neither are a huge issue for people that want the "best" pistol and are willing to devote time and ammunition; but they are prohibitive for a first-time buyer that is not only assuming the cost of the pistol, but support gear and ammunition as well, which can add up to a fairly frightening figure for the casual or incidental user.
Not following your reference to "switched on." Can you clarify that part?
Failure2Stop
06-10-13, 12:13
Not following your reference to "switched on." Can you clarify that part?
Gun guys "in the know" that keep abreast of latest/emerging technology and spend sufficient time actually shooting/practicing/training to maintain a higher than average proficiency.
I had a P30 for a while, and it was mostly a very good pistol.
My initial issue was that with my V3 (DA/SA) would occasionally have hammer-follow. This was a known issue on some earlier production guns, showed up on mine at around 2500 rounds, if I recall correctly.
I originally bought it because I am a proponent of bilateral/ambidextrous use, and it was the most ergonomic pistol in that regard. It is also, in my research, the most robust design on the market. Lastly, aside from purpose-built bullseye pistols, the most accurate pistol I have used.
In hindsight, I wish that I had not jumped the gun and bought the DA/SA (ultimately justified to myself that it would be a benefit when teaching students with DA/SA pistols) and instead waited just a bit longer and gone with the LEM. The LEM is definitely something that needs to be trained, but it is a more reliable trigger mechanism in the P30 design.
I ultimately passed off the P30 as it has such a small following anywhere other than with "switched-on" pistol guys, greatly reducing the necessity for me to have one. Contrast that with the ubiquitous G19, which is in use pretty much everywhere, and it was clear what pistol I really needed to be using for teaching/training/competition.
The only reason that the P30 is not at the top of my list for recommendations for people looking for advice on what pistol to buy is foremost; cost, and secondly; the time needed to master the LEM trigger. Neither are a huge issue for people that want the "best" pistol and are willing to devote time and ammunition; but they are prohibitive for a first-time buyer that is not only assuming the cost of the pistol, but support gear and ammunition as well, which can add up to a fairly frightening figure for the casual or incidental user.
This. New shooters guy DA/SA and LEM guns without understanding of the ADDITIONAL training that is needed in order to shoot them well.
Talking with a large HK Distributor, I asked them which model sells the best. Number one was DA/SA. I found that surprising, but after some thought, I understand why. Most new shooters will simply run a DA/SA gun in SA. They never (or rarely) shoot the gun in DA.
C4
Gun guys "in the know" that keep abreast of latest/emerging technology and spend sufficient time actually shooting/practicing/training to maintain a higher than average proficiency.
While I'd like to think I'm "in the know", :haha: I've got a looong way to go, I'm putting all my effort into learning the LEM. I'll admit the prices of support gear across the board for anything, presently, isn't cheap.. But, by far, the biggest stumbling block for anyone just getting started in pistols, (and boy, you couldn't have picked a worst time to start) is ammo.. I reload, and I'm shocked at how much loaded practice ammo is going for.. While I had a bit of a dry spell finding bullets,(that seems to have subsided) there was never a problem finding powder, primers locally, and not and gouge prices either.. Honestly, I don't know why more people aren't loading their own.. Pistol wise, I'm in good shape, my plan now, is to buy more components... and practice, practice, practice..
The LEM is definitely something that needs to be trained,
My first own centerfire pistol was very early P2000 (GPM) with V0 trigger (light LEM with de-coker). My "road to LEM" was love from first sight... that lasted no more than 500 rounds. Then it was about 1500-2000 rounds of pure hatred. Then for some next 5000+ rounds uneasy love come back. It was around 10 years ago. Today I have (had) LEM trigger in every HK I own (owned - except P7M13 ;) ), both for CCW and competition use. When I get one without LEM, conversion to LEM is firs thing I do. My relationship with LEM is no stable and mature and even short affair with race-1911/2011 trigger never put it in reak danger :agree:
What I learned is that LEM has long learning curve (initially trigger jerking is biggest problem), but then it is better (service) trigger than most SA/DA (or even SA) triggers. Definitely not easy trigger for new shooters or occasional range plinker. When I introduce someone to shooting I use Glock 17 Gen 4 that I keep for this specific purpose just because of easy trigger.
Other thing that I found out several years ago, is that it is better to have heavier trigger return spring, than use light one. It provides faster and more pronounced reset and also "covers" resistance of firing pin safety and partially sear release, giving constant, smooth pull.
Alright to start things off this is one of the best forums out there, over 40 replies in two days thats awesome! As far as the p30 goes I think im definitely going to get one, i'm not to particular about triggers.. I adapt well and 1 magazine down range I've gotten the hang of it and am fine okay with it. There will never be a "modern, high cap" handgun with a 1911 trigger. I will look into working on the trigger because I do some personal gun smithing.
Gun guys "in the know" that keep abreast of latest/emerging technology and spend sufficient time actually shooting/practicing/training to maintain a higher than average proficiency.
Thanks....
Alright to start things off this is one of the best forums out there, over 40 replies in two days thats awesome! As far as the p30 goes I think im definitely going to get one, i'm not to particular about triggers.. I adapt well and 1 magazine down range I've gotten the hang of it and am fine okay with it. There will never be a "modern, high cap" handgun with a 1911 trigger. I will look into working on the trigger because I do some personal gun smithing.
You'll be just fine.....with that mindset.
As far as the p30 goes I think im definitely going to get one, i'm not to particular about triggers.. I adapt well and 1 magazine down range I've gotten the hang of it and am fine okay with it.
If you're thinking LEM, shoot some reduced sized targets from a draw on timer, more than one shot at the time, and see if you're still fine okay with it. Sort of mini Bill drill, 3-4 rounds on 3x5 card at 25 feet or so, from holster and timed. This is a quick discriminating LEM proficiency test for me.
In hindsight, I wish that I had not jumped the gun and bought the DA/SA (ultimately justified to myself that it would be a benefit when teaching students with DA/SA pistols) and instead waited just a bit longer and gone with the LEM. The LEM is definitely something that needs to be trained, but it is a more reliable trigger mechanism in the P30 design.
Interesting, as I've had the same experience/epiphany with the P30 series. I originally bought a DA/SA P30L when they were initially released, and consequently that was the only variant available.
After getting my ass out of a shooting stall and into some training classes, I always ended up leaving my DA/SA guns at home in favor of my Glocks or USP V1 HKs (cocked & locked).
Just a week ago I bought a P30 Light LEM. It's the best of both worlds IMO. I have been practicing draws with it and it's very similar in practice to a Glock, but the trigger is smoother and lighter.
It's too warm to hide on my person right now, so I will continue to carry my G30 or G27, but come cooler weather the P30 will be in the rotation with my G23.
I still have the P30L. 4,200 rounds through and it's been great, but it's basically a range gun now where we can't practice draws and such anyway.
I still have the P30L. 4,200 rounds through and it's been great, but it's basically a range gun now where we can't practice draws and such anyway.
Convert it to LEM. All you need is LEM hammer, LEM cocking piece (striker) and hammer elbow spring. You take out V3 (SA/DA) hammer and dump 3 mentioned parts in. You can left V3 sear with de-cocker button. What you will end up with is practically V0 LEM/DA trigger. Only difference will be that V0 uses spurred hammer and you most probably will have bobbed one. This will give your P30L new life :happy:
Failure2Stop
06-11-13, 09:00
Forgot, one other thing that is a bit of a downer:
Sight options for the P30 are extremely limited.
The best that I am aware of is the Trijicon HD, and I believe that Hk45 sights work with the P30.
**HOWEVER**
My P30 was a distinct 6:00 hold with most ammo, which I was not happy about.
Forgot, one other thing that is a bit of a downer:
Sight options for the P30 are extremely limited.
The best that I am aware of is the Trijicon HD, and I believe that Hk45 sights work with the P30.
**HOWEVER**
My P30 was a distinct 6:00 hold with most ammo, which I was not happy about.
A slight correction.. Trijicon HD HK45c sights, will work with P-30. I have some in their package, waiting for the LGS to get his HK sight pusher in and they are marked for HK45c/P-30... But, as far as I know, Heinie, 10-8, Trijicon Meprolight, and possibly Dawson all make sights for the P-30..What exactly are you looking for? You want to see limited options, try a PPQ... I got my dial calipers out and did some quick measuring..measuring to the top to both sights (HD's still in the package, and stocks sights on the pistol) These are what I consider rough measurements. HD front.210 Stock front .170
HD rear .325 Stock rear.275 Difference(height of rear sight minus height of front) Stock, .105, HD, .115 Depth of stock notch (rear sight) .125 depth of HD rear .153 If you used HK45 sights, instead of HK45c (I'm assuming you did not) then that could be the problem... anyway, maybe you could measure your sights, and compare to what I came up with..
Convert it to LEM. All you need is LEM hammer, LEM cocking piece (striker) and hammer elbow spring. You take out V3 (SA/DA) hammer and dump 3 mentioned parts in. You can left V3 sear with de-cocker button. What you will end up with is practically V0 LEM/DA trigger. Only difference will be that V0 uses spurred hammer and you most probably will have bobbed one. This will give your P30L new life :happy:
I thought about that, but for a couple of things:
HK doesn't recommend converting a V3 to a V2/V1. Do they see an issue with it or is it just to cover their butts in case something happens? I don't know but don't want to chance it on a carry gun. If I had my way, I would have changed it to a P30LS and run it C&L, but you cannot add a safety to it as the frames are different.
Since I would primarily carry the gun OWB in a Raven, the shorter barrel length of the P30 over the P30L was an advantage.
I wanted the Light LEM over the regular LEM. Finding the LEM kit for the P30 was proving difficult. I could find them for a USP (maybe they use the same parts?). But, I didn't want to take any chances on a gun I'd be carrying.
My P30L is a 9mm and I prefer a 40 for carry.
When I saw locally a P30 Light LEM in 40, it just made sense to buy another one for me at that point. I had twisted my own arm into it... :happy:
Forgot, one other thing that is a bit of a downer:
Sight options for the P30 are extremely limited.
The best that I am aware of is the Trijicon HD, and I believe that Hk45 sights work with the P30.
**HOWEVER**
My P30 was a distinct 6:00 hold with most ammo, which I was not happy about.
I haven't had an issue with the stock sights, though I am not a fan of how slanted the rear sight is. However, if I were to change them out I'd buy the Heinies and not look back. That's what I run on my G23 (ledge) and USP-Tact 40 (suppressor height).
Have a P30 V3 in 9mm. Love the grip, magazine release and shoot ability of the pistol. The double action pull isn't great but honestly you either learn how to get obsessing about that "first double action shot" and just learn how to shoot it or you stick with striker fired guns so to me its a non issue. My biggest grip is the reset on the single action trigger is a mile long.
Failure2Stop
06-11-13, 13:35
A slight correction.. Trijicon HD HK45c sights, will work with P-30. I have some in their package, waiting for the LGS to get his HK sight pusher in and they are marked for HK45c/P-30... But, as far as I know, Heinie, 10-8, Trijicon Meprolight, and possibly Dawson all make sights for the P-30..What exactly are you looking for?
I was a pretty early adopter, all that was out was the Heinie's (if I recall).
My criticism of the sight selection is compared against Glocks, Sigs, 1911s, and M&Ps.
Heinies on my P30 work as Heinies should.
POA = POI at the top of the sight blade.
http://www.heinie.com/userfiles/image/s8big2.JPG
Heinies on my HK45c where 6 o'clock hold. 100mm (4") at 25m. Somewhere I found that actually those are made this way, so I wonder for what distance is this picture? 5 yard? I do not need sights for 5 yard, I need them usable at all reasonable pistol distances. Anyway I milled down rear sight and called it a day. Standard HK sights were "top of front sight cuts POI in half".
But my stander HK sights on P30L where also 4" POI over POA. I put HK 6.9mm front sight to correct that. Now I have Dawson sights with front sight made to my spec.
I'm very curious about how Trijicon HD sights would work for me.
A 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the black on a B-8 bull at 25 yds puts them in the X for me with heinies. At <10 the tritium lamp over the exact spot I want to hit is dead on. I think Heinie sights go back to "bullseye" type sights which makes sense with the results I get.
The stock HK's (for me) were more like Glock sights, POA/POI.
I like the Heinies. I would probably like Warrens best, but....
My latest venture has been playing with an RMR on the P30. I finally fabricated a mount that fits in the factory rear dovetail & have been playing with that some. I like it a lot. I know how I could mount it like how guys are doing the Glocks & M&P's, but it will require butchering the slide & sure is shit I'll do it & THE answer to the pistol RDS will come out next year.
I was a pretty early adopter, all that was out was the Heinie's (if I recall).
My criticism of the sight selection is compared against Glocks, Sigs, 1911s, and M&Ps.
OK, that's understandable, At what range were you using a 6'0clock hold with the HD's?
Plumber237
06-11-13, 21:56
The only reason that I sold my P30 was that I was kind of paranoid about the grip pieces. Mine always had a mushy feel to them, they were not nearly as solid as I expected, causing me to worry that if dropped that the side panels could detach. Add that to mag price/accessory availability and price...I decided that I was better off going back to Glock (which I had moved away from due to the issues with my gen 3.5 glock 19). Glock seemed to have gotten their shit back together and the gen4 Glock 19 I bought to replace the P30 has run like a champ.
Last month I hit a steel at 130+ yards during a class with my P30/Heinie sights using direct aim. When I shoot groups at 25, I usually use 3x5 card for better contrast and simply put my sights on.
My P30 is demonstrably more accurate than my gen3 G19 despite having a heavier trigger. My gen4 G17 is close in accuracy to a P30.
Got a P30 V3 not quite two months ago, just to have a DA/SA trigger in the stable for practice; it's been 7yrs since I'd used one...
I'm 1000 rounds into it.
-The mechanical accuracy is something to behold. Just unreal to me, for a production Tupperware gun.
-I have to push my support-hand thumb down and forward to keep the meaty part of my support thumb from interacting with the slide release in any way. Turns out, doing that helps me get better recoil control across the board, any gun.
-Couldn't care less about how far out the reset is; figuring out where a reset point lies is easy. I'd like to find a way to reduce the amount of takeup on the SA pull. It's not even particularly onerous, more of a "If I'd change anything, that's what I'd change" thing.
-Changing to the light hammer spring definitely smoothed out DA pull. Hard to tell if it lightened it, though. I just know that I'm not as prone to "staging" it, I'm getting more of a one-smooth-motion thing going on, which has helped me approach matching my times with striker-fired guns. Gonna swap out the firing pin block spring, supposed to drop DA pull by 1.5#, because why the hell not....?
-That trough at the bottom of the trigger guard....I have unkind things to say to whichever Teutonic HSI dweeb came up with THAT. I don't like finger-tipping pistol triggers, and that trough leaves me the choice of either finger-tipping, or getting the end of my trigger finger chewed up. It doesn't affect all shooters, but the ones it does...muy malo.
Overall, I'm decidedly glad I bought it.
The only reason that I sold my P30 was that I was kind of paranoid about the grip pieces. Mine always had a mushy feel to them, they were not nearly as solid as I expected, causing me to worry that if dropped that the side panels could detach. Add that to mag price/accessory availability and price...I decided that I was better off going back to Glock (which I had moved away from due to the issues with my gen 3.5 glock 19). Glock seemed to have gotten their shit back together and the gen4 Glock 19 I bought to replace the P30 has run like a champ.
I never really understood this. P30 mags are like $35. I would think if one is willing to shell out the $800 for the P30, $35/mag wouldn't kill the bank.
Now if you're talking HK45, USP45 mags at $60 each, that I can understand.
I never really understood this. P30 mags are like $35. I would think if one is willing to shell out the $800 for the P30, $35/mag wouldn't kill the bank.
Now if you're talking HK45, USP45 mags at $60 each, that I can understand.
And consider that at present, Glock mags (like anything else) if you can find them, are going between $30-35. At least at the places I checked, Lone wolf, glockmiester, CDNN, Midway..
I'm sick of hearing how much mags cost also. They are $10 more then glock mags. 5 mags won't break the bank.
If it wasn't for the net i wouldn't know the groove in the trigger guard was there, so it definitely an individual thing
Plumber237
06-12-13, 22:26
I never really understood this. P30 mags are like $35. I would think if one is willing to shell out the $800 for the P30, $35/mag wouldn't kill the bank.
Now if you're talking HK45, USP45 mags at $60 each, that I can understand.
My bad, I owned an HK45c too and was thinking of their mag price, I forgot that P30 mags were way cheaper.
My bad, I owned an HK45c too and was thinking of their mag price, I forgot that P30 mags were way cheaper.
45c mags? Ouch! I also own a PPQ, I know how you felt..:)
Alaskapopo
06-13-13, 01:53
Not a fan. Trigger sucks. When you have people being nice saying you will like it once you train for it etc. That means its a handicap that must be overcome and you will never shoot your best with it. Also not a fan of the high bore axis. Its a sound gun in that it runs and is accurate. The ergonomics are also excellent. Too bad they can't put a good trigger on it.
pat
Trigger sucks. ... Too bad they can't put a good trigger on it.
Probably you would like to have race trigger there. Not going to happen. HK triggers are designed with reliability and safety in mind, those are service weapons. They work with broken parts (or some parts removed) and do not go full auto when one part wear out. For some users this is important and HK makes guns mostly for this kind of users.
But HK do makes some changes. In my HK P30L I have V4.1 trigger. This is V4 LEM trigger with reduced pre-travel (around 1/3 shorter pre-travel). Reset is same (7mm) for compliance with German regulations on 9mm service pistols, but shorter pre-travel makes more difference is shooting, that it looks on paper.
Not a fan. Trigger sucks. When you have people being nice saying you will like it once you train for it etc. That means its a handicap that must be overcome and you will never shoot your best with it. Also not a fan of the high bore axis. Its a sound gun in that it runs and is accurate. The ergonomics are also excellent. Too bad they can't put a good trigger on it.
pat
Just send it to gray guns like all the guys on h&k Pro. He'll fix it up for about 400 + shipping. Ive played with one he worked on and he does a damn good job, but when you add up it all (gun / trigger job / nights sights) that's about $1600 so ill pass. And if you hoard mags you will feel the difference in price. On a positive note h&k's whole value with the best of then, so it's easy to off load if you want to jump ship.
Just send it to gray guns like all the guys on h&k Pro. He'll fix it up for about 400 + shipping. Ive played with one he worked on and he does a damn good job, but when you add up it all (gun / trigger job / nights sights) that's about $1600 so ill pass. And if you hoard mags you will feel the difference in price. On a positive note h&k's whole value with the best of then, so it's easy to off load if you want to jump ship.
I'm not picking on you, just making a point; so don't take this personal.
I will never understand how $900 for a P30 for a gun that will run and run and run, and has shown a level of accuracy out of the box for a number of us here on the board that rivals or beats many M&P's & Glocks with aftermarket match grade barrels is a bad thing. Mechanically I can say without a doubt the P30 is more accurate than a stock Glock. To make them equal, you buy a match grade barrel & you are neck & neck on the price point. A high percent of folks here & everywhere buy a M&P or Glock, then immediately begin changing the grip to fit their hand, then stipple it, then before long are at or beyond the P30. The P30 is an extremely solid, extremely accurate pistol right out of the gate, with a grip that can be made to work with near any man or woman.
As far as high bore axis and the trigger. Pat, the trigger is actually by default best suited for folks in your region. Very cold areas and for shooting with gloves. I'm not saying you have to burn through thousands of rounds & then you'll fall in love with it. I am saying the LEM is "different" for a pistol. It is most like a 2 stage rifle trigger & extremely close in feel to my SIG 5xx series rifles. Some folks are just not use to having that in a pistol, so I give the advise to shoot it a bit before passing judgement. On the range, it has been my experience that most end up warming up to it.
On high bore axis. I teach a lot of brand new shooters, especially women. I take several different pistols during each class for new shooters to try. Even though the "high bore axis" of the P30 "should" make it recoil more or more snappy, it almost always ends up being the favored pistol followed by M&Ps,.... Glocks usually are last. Reasons are usually great grip & soft recoil, & "I feel like I can hold on to it much better".
Probably you would like to have race trigger there. Not going to happen. HK triggers are designed with reliability and safety in mind, those are service weapons. They work with broken parts (or some parts removed) and do not go full auto when one part wear out. For some users this is important and HK makes guns mostly for this kind of users.
But HK do makes some changes. In my HK P30L I have V4.1 trigger. This is V4 LEM trigger with reduced pre-travel (around 1/3 shorter pre-travel). Reset is same (7mm) for compliance with German regulations on 9mm service pistols, but shorter pre-travel makes more difference is shooting, that it looks on paper.
Montrala;
you don't know if the V4.1 trigger is available in the U.S.? your post is the first I've ever heard of it.. It sounds very interesting..
Alaskapopo
06-13-13, 13:30
Probably you would like to have race trigger there. Not going to happen. HK triggers are designed with reliability and safety in mind, those are service weapons. They work with broken parts (or some parts removed) and do not go full auto when one part wear out. For some users this is important and HK makes guns mostly for this kind of users.
But HK do makes some changes. In my HK P30L I have V4.1 trigger. This is V4 LEM trigger with reduced pre-travel (around 1/3 shorter pre-travel). Reset is same (7mm) for compliance with German regulations on 9mm service pistols, but shorter pre-travel makes more difference is shooting, that it looks on paper.
Does not have to be a race trigger. Also the trigger does not make your gun safe. If you don't put your finger on the trigger when your not supposed to the gun won't fire period rather its a 10 pound pull or a 1 ounce one. In a duty pistol I want a trigger around 4 to 5 pounds no more. The whole point of a pistol is to hit what your aiming at under stress and a heavier trigger makes that harder. When my life is on the line I want that to be an easier function no harder.
Pat
Alaskapopo
06-13-13, 13:33
I'm not picking on you, just making a point; so don't take this personal.
I will never understand how $900 for a P30 for a gun that will run and run and run, and has shown a level of accuracy out of the box for a number of us here on the board that rivals or beats many M&P's & Glocks with aftermarket match grade barrels is a bad thing. Mechanically I can say without a doubt the P30 is more accurate than a stock Glock. To make them equal, you buy a match grade barrel & you are neck & neck on the price point. A high percent of folks here & everywhere buy a M&P or Glock, then immediately begin changing the grip to fit their hand, then stipple it, then before long are at or beyond the P30. The P30 is an extremely solid, extremely accurate pistol right out of the gate, with a grip that can be made to work with near any man or woman.
As far as high bore axis and the trigger. Pat, the trigger is actually by default best suited for folks in your region. Very cold areas and for shooting with gloves. I'm not saying you have to burn through thousands of rounds & then you'll fall in love with it. I am saying the LEM is "different" for a pistol. It is most like a 2 stage rifle trigger & extremely close in feel to my SIG 5xx series rifles. Some folks are just not use to having that in a pistol, so I give the advise to shoot it a bit before passing judgement. On the range, it has been my experience that most end up warming up to it.
On high bore axis. I teach a lot of brand new shooters, especially women. I take several different pistols during each class for new shooters to try. Even though the "high bore axis" of the P30 "should" make it recoil more or more snappy, it almost always ends up being the favored pistol followed by M&Ps,.... Glocks usually are last. Reasons are usually great grip & soft recoil, & "I feel like I can hold on to it much better".
New shooters are not who I would judge a pistol choice by. Many new shooters go by pure ergonomics. Meaning they pick the pistol up and if it feels good in their hand that is what they prefer. They don't know what they don't know yet.
Pat
I never really understood this. P30 mags are like $35. I would think if one is willing to shell out the $800 for the P30, $35/mag wouldn't kill the bank.
Now if you're talking HK45, USP45 mags at $60 each, that I can understand.
Where exactly can one get P30 mags for $35?? I'm pondering adding another 9mm to my stable and snubbed the P30 and PPQ due to high maintenance cost. I consider mags disposable so they fall into the maintenance side.
Midway is now out of stock now. But I bought 2 from them and 2 from Top Gun Supply for $34 each over the last two weeks. Just got to have them notify you when they come in stock.
I bought mine directly from HKUSA. $33apeice and a order limit of 5, I don'nt know if they have any left, I'd give them a call..
Alaskapopo
06-13-13, 16:41
I'm not picking on you, just making a point; so don't take this personal.
I will never understand how $900 for a P30 for a gun that will run and run and run, and has shown a level of accuracy out of the box for a number of us here on the board that rivals or beats many M&P's & Glocks with aftermarket match grade barrels is a bad thing. Mechanically I can say without a doubt the P30 is more accurate than a stock Glock. To make them equal, you buy a match grade barrel & you are neck & neck on the price point. A high percent of folks here & everywhere buy a M&P or Glock, then immediately begin changing the grip to fit their hand, then stipple it, then before long are at or beyond the P30. The P30 is an extremely solid, extremely accurate pistol right out of the gate, with a grip that can be made to work with near any man or woman.
As far as high bore axis and the trigger. Pat, the trigger is actually by default best suited for folks in your region. Very cold areas and for shooting with gloves. I'm not saying you have to burn through thousands of rounds & then you'll fall in love with it. I am saying the LEM is "different" for a pistol. It is most like a 2 stage rifle trigger & extremely close in feel to my SIG 5xx series rifles. Some folks are just not use to having that in a pistol, so I give the advise to shoot it a bit before passing judgement. On the range, it has been my experience that most end up warming up to it.
On high bore axis. I teach a lot of brand new shooters, especially women. I take several different pistols during each class for new shooters to try. Even though the "high bore axis" of the P30 "should" make it recoil more or more snappy, it almost always ends up being the favored pistol followed by M&Ps,.... Glocks usually are last. Reasons are usually great grip & soft recoil, & "I feel like I can hold on to it much better".
Even if you pay for an better trigger on a Glock and stipple it etc and say it ends up costing more than the P30 which is unlikely. With the Glock you ended up with a easier to shoot pistol due to the trigger and low bore axis. It would be nice if HK removed their head from their rear and stopped making horrible trigger pulls. I could even live with the top heavy muzzle flip magnifying high bore axis but the trigger is a deal killer. I am not saying HK pistols are junk they are solid my first duty pistol was a HK USP in 45 acp. But I have never regretted selling that gun.
Pat
Rayrevolver
06-13-13, 17:57
Alaskapopo, have you shot a magazine or two with the LEM trigger?
Alaskapopo
06-13-13, 18:05
Alaskapopo, have you shot a magazine or two with the LEM trigger?
Yes a friend of mine has one and no I don't care for it at all. If it works for you thats great. But for me a good trigger is important.
Pat
Surprise, surprise that he who is on my ignore list comes back to crap in another HK thread with the same tired excuses. I just wish people wouldn't quote him so I don't have to read the crap he posts. Go ahead and offend him, he asks for it.
Rayrevolver
06-13-13, 18:45
Yes a friend of mine has one and no I don't care for it at all. If it works for you thats great. But for me a good trigger is important.
Pat
I'll let you know in a few months. Finally got around to getting a P30L LEM V1 this week.
I shot a friends USPc40 LEM years ago and I loved it. I just didn't want to get away from Glocks at the time.
The LEM brings 1 more thing to the table that strikers do not: The ability to ride the hammer on re-holster.
Its going to be my games gun while the G34 sits. I used to carry a G26 with -/NY1, and that combo is probably my favorite trigger to date.
At some point I hope a PPQ M2 shows up at a match so I can see what the fuss is all about.
The LEM brings 1 more thing to the table that strikers do not: The ability to ride the hammer on re-holster.
TLGs "Gadget" is supposedly in pre-production now, so Glocks will have the option shortly of being able to ride the trigger bar.
Alaskapopo
06-13-13, 20:20
I'll let you know in a few months. Finally got around to getting a P30L LEM V1 this week.
I shot a friends USPc40 LEM years ago and I loved it. I just didn't want to get away from Glocks at the time.
The LEM brings 1 more thing to the table that strikers do not: The ability to ride the hammer on re-holster.
Its going to be my games gun while the G34 sits. I used to carry a G26 with -/NY1, and that combo is probably my favorite trigger to date.
At some point I hope a PPQ M2 shows up at a match so I can see what the fuss is all about.
The ride the hammer thing is not something I worry about. Been carrying a gun as a cop for 14 years and never have done that and never have I put a round in myself during re-holstering. I don't think its a real advantage. Plus it breaks with my muscle memory the gun goes back the the holster the same way it comes out. Now if your a revolver shooter at heart a trigger like the LEM is for you. I am a single action trigger guy at heart.
Pat
Good to know about the mags being reasonable. Goes to shoe what happens when you ASS U ME something. Having dealt with the $60 HK45 mags I just assumed the P30 would be in the same boat. Looks like I may be putting that one back on the shopping list. LEM most likely unless the safety on P30S doesn't require me to have triple jointed thumbs like the rest if the units do.
I've never found any HK to be hard to shoot well, either slow fire or quick. The high bore axis of the USP and the rest doesn't seem to bother me, especially with the 9. I converted my HK45 to LEM and after a bit of learning I shot it well.
I do agree with Pat though. Manufacturers in general need to get their bars out of their collective asses and start making quality triggers. Not the gritty, creepy, no reset pieces of shit they are peddling. There is absolutely no reason for the crap they put out. You can have a safe and quality trigger.
1_click_off
06-13-13, 21:20
The ratio of people that like the P30 is about 30:1 in this thread. I don't know of too many other products out there that have that backing.
Each has their own likes/dislikes. I am in the 30 group.
I am shooting a Glock 17 now as primary, but have spent dedicated time with the HK, M&P, Sig and Glock. Using known drills for data, I shoot all those platforms so close that the differences are largely irrelevant -- it just gets down to picking the feature set you like best.
Only thing I would add, is the HK DA/SA trigger is easily the least desirable HK trigger choice, and worst trigger of all the above platforms. If you want DA/SA, get a Sig, and if you want a HK get a LEM trigger.
A P30 LEM is a fantastic appendix carry pistol, and I think being able to ride the hammer while reholstering is a major safety advantage. I am a Glock Gadget beta tester, and ride the Gadget during reholstering just like a hammer on an HK.
ok, im no expert, but i'll share my experiences.
I hate da/sa. I switched my cz to SAO and loved the trigger. I tried the p30 in an LEM and the travel killed my. I was thinking about buying one and quickly realized it was NOT for me.
My buddy recently bought a usp40. I hate the recoil impulse. My cz was very short and snappy. My current m&P is in the middle, I can track the sights, but its up/down is faster than I could pull the trigger.
with the usp(im assuming the p30 is similar, so disregard if Im wrong), the slide was so slow I felt I had to wait for the sights to fall back in place. I know they are great guns, anyone who argues that is an idiot.. However, there are some things that are preference.
Similarly I prefer a carbine buffer to an H2 in my 14.5" mid. Same reason I like the m&p.
as for riding the hammer, I have a vanguard and holster pointed at the dirt so its good. I've been shooting since I was 15yo, I'm 25 now. I've never had an ND, but assume I will every time I holster and prefer to keep the gun pointed away from the 'boyz' even after checking the holster. I think a similar mindset may be beneficial for anyone using AIWB. IWB you get a hole in your cheeks. AIWB your probably dead if your nd your gun.
Montrala;
you don't know if the V4.1 trigger is available in the U.S.? your post is the first I've ever heard of it.. It sounds very interesting..
If HK USA will order it from Germany, I do not know of reasons why not.
Also the trigger does not make your gun safe.
Yes, but trigger can make gun unsafe (it is not same!). Seen it all to often.
If you ever plan on carrying this gun IWB it is worth noting that the stippling on the grip is a bit scratchy.
That's really the only complaint that I have about the one that I had. It was a superb pistol all around. For some reason I still like the P2000 a little more though.
Alaskapopo
06-14-13, 11:51
If HK USA will order it from Germany, I do not know of reasons why not.
Yes, but trigger can make gun unsafe (it is not same!). Seen it all to often.
I have not. More ND's were logged with DA revolvers back in the day than with any autos now and the reason was training or rather lack of it back then. Teach your people to keep their finger off the trigger when they don't intend to fire, if you don't they will have ND's regardless of how heavy the trigger is. Also the heavier you make the trigger the low hit ratios will be.
Pat
Also the heavier you make the trigger the low hit ratios will be.
Pat
Which why Glock shooters all over put negative connectors in their guns, since even 5.5-6 lbs of trigger pressure with normal connector proves too much, with its gonna-break-riiiight-about-now wall-like trigger break and subsequent anticipation. As opposed to LEM trigger when same amount of trigger weight is easily negotiated in a rolling manner and without anticipation, if one is willing to spend just a bit of time.
Small bit of tech info: negative connector gets you less than 3.75 lbs of trigger break if applied to a tip of a trigger. Of course, that shouldn't be a problem, just dont put your finger in, other than those NDs by piece of clothing and gear, as well as just NDs committed regularly by well trained people.
Now let's go back to a previously announced re-run of how DA revolver ND facts from the era when holsters were designed with access to trigger so trigger can be pulled ASAAAAAAAP are more relevant than contemporary FBI data that longer trigger pull is associated with less NDs.
Alaskapopo
06-14-13, 14:18
Which why Glock shooters all over put negative connectors in their guns, since even 5.5-6 lbs of trigger pressure with normal connector proves too much, with its gonna-break-riiiight-about-now wall-like trigger break and subsequent anticipation. As opposed to LEM trigger when same amount of trigger weight is easily negotiated in a rolling manner and without anticipation, if one is willing to spend just a bit of time.
Small bit of tech info: negative connector gets you less than 3.75 lbs of trigger break if applied to a tip of a trigger. Of course, that shouldn't be a problem, just dont put your finger in, other than those NDs by piece of clothing and gear, as well as just NDs committed regularly by well trained people.
Now let's go back to a previously announced re-run of how DA revolver ND facts from the era when holsters were designed with access to trigger so trigger can be pulled ASAAAAAAAP are more relevant than contemporary FBI data that longer trigger pull is associated with less NDs.
Clothing and gear. Yes it has happened but its a training issue. Sweep that stuff out of the way before re holstering. Your chance of this happening is less than being struck by lightening. ND happen far less frequently as training goes up. A hard ware fix like overly heavy triggers don't solve the problem and they create a new one which is making the gun harder to hit with which decreases their chance of winning the gun fight. Heavy triggers are an invention of attorneys not shooters. On the holsters while they were not good the main issue was back then they did not teach cops to keep their finger off the trigger. Dr. Enoka has some good information on the causes of ND's. On Glock triggers I prefer as little pre travel as possible and a wall of about 4 pounds. The FBI used to believe DA triggers were safer and that is part of why they issued DA SA sigs for so long but they now issue Glocks like the rest of the LEO world.
Pat
I recently purchased a P30v3. I was in the market for a new off duty gun and looked at a variety of new Sigs (issued gun is Sig 226, was looking at 228/229/M11) at 3 different gun shops. I couldn't find one that had a good stock DA pull. Having owned/carried Sigs for years I was pretty disappointed. The HKs I looked at all had better DA pulls. So I ended up with a P30.
Sigs aren't what they used to be. I was talking with our Sig LE rep and asked him about it. He acknowledged the issue and told me part of the problem is that Sig doesn't manufacture the internal parts, they subcontract them and there have been issues with the subcontractors. He also said that Sig is trying to bring all the internal part manufacturing back in house to resolve this.
No idea if any of that is true, but that's what I was told.
I have no issues with the da/sa pull on my v3. I love it. I'm more accurate with it than I am with my Sigs.
DA/SA isn't what I prefer, but its what we use at work so I'm sticking with it for now.
Its my favorite handgun...Love the light lem. The more I shoot it, the more I like it.
Pat, LEM is not a heavy trigger. Mine, well shot in, is 5.25 lbs, and this is with a heavy return spring. This is what Glock service pull should be, according to Glock. Except everyone and their mom put in negative and dot connectors 'cause those short travel, hard break triggers aren't that shootable when they get to 5.5. Glock shooters en masse want their triggers be 4.0-4.25 to shoot them well; otherwise negative connectors won't sell at 25 bucks a pop for a 50 cent part. Then, when one says such light triggers are insane on a short travel, safety-less service guns, the usual cop out answer is what you posted above in your posts.
You holster one handed - pretty hard to sweep the gear out; you get a brain fart - your shot is coming out in 5 mm of travel as opposed to 15 of mine, guess who has more time to recognize the mistake and correct it...
srcochran49
06-14-13, 17:39
Alaskapopo, I don't know where you get your information concerning revolver use and training by LE. I started the academy 40 years ago, and we were certainly taught to keep our finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
Almost all agencies experienced an increase in accidental discharges when they transitioned to semi autos, and the Glock in particular. That was the primary reason some agencies adopted the heavy triggers.
I have carried everything from revolvers, SA semis, SA/DA semis to my current HK w/LEM. I find the LEM to be very easy to shoot well.
Alaskapopo
06-14-13, 19:54
Alaskapopo, I don't know where you get your information concerning revolver use and training by LE. I started the academy 40 years ago, and we were certainly taught to keep our finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
Almost all agencies experienced an increase in accidental discharges when they transitioned to semi autos, and the Glock in particular. That was the primary reason some agencies adopted the heavy triggers.
I have carried everything from revolvers, SA semis, SA/DA semis to my current HK w/LEM. I find the LEM to be very easy to shoot well.
Well I have been working for 14 years and the last 12 of that as a firearms instructor and the old timers are the ones with the safety problems many have out and out told me that they were not raind to keep their finger off the trigger when I called them on it. Most of them are out of service now however.
I don't care for long and light triggers or long and heavy. I prefer short and crisp. As a firearms instructor I have have a problem with the terminolgy accidental discharge. It is really a Negligent discharge.
Pat
Alaskapopo
06-14-13, 20:00
Pat, LEM is not a heavy trigger. Mine, well shot in, is 5.25 lbs, and this is with a heavy return spring. This is what Glock service pull should be, according to Glock. Except everyone and their mom put in negative and dot connectors 'cause those short travel, hard break triggers aren't that shootable when they get to 5.5. Glock shooters en masse want their triggers be 4.0-4.25 to shoot them well; otherwise negative connectors won't sell at 25 bucks a pop for a 50 cent part. Then, when one says such light triggers are insane on a short travel, safety-less service guns, the usual cop out answer is what you posted above in your posts.
You holster one handed - pretty hard to sweep the gear out; you get a brain fart - your shot is coming out in 5 mm of travel as opposed to 15 of mine, guess who has more time to recognize the mistake and correct it...
That extra travel is just more time to pull your shot off target. Your not going to stop a decision to shoot in that amount of time. Also negative connectors? As a Glock Armorer I have never heard that term. The LEM is not what a Glock should be its more like a smoothed out DA only revolver pull. Not what I prefer. There is a reason HK gets bashed on their triggers. I am not alone on this. But if you prefer this type of trigger knock yourself out. I just don't care at all for them.
Pat
Ralph's P30 with LEM that I've shot was sort of like a Glock. Initial take up was really light, but the wall was much heavier. It's an interesting trigger. It's like trying to turn a hammer fired gun into a Glock.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-14-13, 21:31
Although I disagree with Popo in that I like the LEM trigger, I agree with his characterization as a smoothed out revolver trigger.
There is a reason HK gets bashed on their triggers. I am not alone on this. But if you prefer this type of trigger knock yourself out. I just don't care at all for them.
Pat
Pat, it just gets down to personal preference, and as I have said previously in this thread, all the platforms can be shot so close, as to make the differences in performance almost inconsequential. However, coming to a P30 thread to say how much you don't like it, is the internet equivalent of poking someone in the eye with a sharp stick.
Coal Dragger
06-15-13, 12:43
I have handled a few and really really like the shape of the grip and the gun seems to point naturally for me.
Unfortunately both the DA/SA trigger, and the LEM I played with were not all that great. Like Alaskapopo, I prefer a good single action trigger and the SA break on the DA/SA is mushy, shitty, and generally terrible. The LEM breaks just as badly once the initial take up is pressed though and the trigger stages. I will give the LEM credit for being a neat concept, I just wish that once you get to the end of that pull that the final stage would be nice and crisp with a shorter reset. I used to own a USP45 and the DA/SA trigger in it was not very good either, and I see HK has not bothered to address that issue.
I am aware that there are shops out there that do trigger work on these guns, but without examining one it would make buying one of these guns with the intent of having that work done kind of tough. If I were to buy a DA/SA gun I would have to buy a detent plate to make the gun SAO (which would be fine with me) as well.
For around $1K before you even start to look at trigger work and sights that don't suck, I am a bit hesitant to buy one. Which is frustrating because I really like HK's, and the pistol appears to be really well made. I would love to pick up a P30 in 9mm and an HK45 but by the time I got the triggers worked on and the sights changed out, I will be in the $$$ pretty deep.
1) if anyone wants to see a P30 LEM run well, here is Ernie Langdon shooting one against Todd Green with a 1911:
http://pistol-training.com/archives/8236
2) my belief is the way to shoot a LEM isn't to get trigger work, but rather to learn to shoot the stock trigger.
Coal Dragger
06-15-13, 15:16
^ Your link doesn't appear to be working...
Coal Dragger
06-15-13, 15:27
For those using the LEM, how what method do you use to operate the trigger for best results? Stage it and break the shot like a single action trigger and ride the reset, or roll through it like a DA wheel gun?
I'm just curious, I am not ruling these guns out since I really really like them and despite my complaints about the USP45 I owned having a less than ideal trigger I still shot it well. I just happened to be shooting in league matches against good shooters running good 1911's at the time I had that USP45 and I couldn't keep up, after switching to a Kimber Super Match II my scores improved immediately and I started placing in the top 3 or winning. I am now in a position where I don't need my match gun to be a carry gun, but I still like to make bullets go where the sights are and I am accustomed to SA triggers now.
Definitely not staging -- take up slack and roll thru the rest. You might vary the speed of the roll depending upon the difficulty of the shot, but keep the trigger moving.
For those using the LEM, how what method do you use to operate the trigger for best results?
Roll. Ability to make a"running start" and avoid anticipation of hard break is what separates it from Glock.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-16-13, 00:45
The whole idea that a lightweight, short throw trigger is safer or as safe as a heavier, longer throw trigger is absurd. Obviously training is more important than the gun, but let's stay here in reality.
So what everyone is trying to say is that not all guns are suited for all people. If you really like one and train enough with it anyone can be proficient wih their weapon. So why is their always someone who feels the need to bash on another persons decision?
I am purchasing a p30 very soon and I am excited to learn the LEM. I was initially thinking of going standard DA/SA, but after much research I see how many guys run and love the LEM
So what everyone is trying to say is that not all guns are suited for all people. If you really like one and train enough with it anyone can be proficient wih their weapon. So why is their always someone who feels the need to bash on another persons decision?
I am purchasing a p30 very soon and I am excited to learn the LEM. I was initially thinking of going standard DA/SA, but after much research I see how many guys run and love the LEM
That's pretty much it.. The LEM does have a bit of a learning curve to it, But if that's what you plan on training with long-term, it shouldn't be a problem. I talked to Montrala over at the HK pro forums and got a little more detail on the V4.1 lem as he 's calling it.. From what I gathered, the pre travel is reduced by about 5mm..which doesn't sound like much to us Americans, until you convert it.. That 5mm is just over 3/16",and a pretty good reduction, everything else, reset, overtravel is the same.. I'd like to see HK offer this here in the U.S.
Has anyone contacted HK USA to find out if these parts are available?
I love the P30 but it is easy to get lazy, splits will suffer due to the length of the trigger stroke. Point is, IMO this trigger system requires more attention to detail than a striker fired platform.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
My EDC is a Kahr K40. I assume the LEM will be similar to th DOA pull on this just less weight.
My EDC is a Kahr K40. I assume the LEM will be similar to th DOA pull on this just less weight.
No, the initial take up offers "no" or very little resistance.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Has anyone contacted HK USA to find out if these parts are available?
I love the P30 but it is easy to get lazy, splits will suffer due to the length of the trigger stroke. Point is, IMO this trigger system requires more attention to detail than a striker fired platform.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Yes. HK USA has not heard of it.
C4
It is basically the single action trigger, but it starts with the trigger full forward and very little resistance up until it reaches the single action release point.
So what everyone is trying to say is that not all guns are suited for all people. If you really like one and train enough with it anyone can be proficient wih their weapon. So why is their always someone who feels the need to bash on another persons decision?
I am purchasing a p30 very soon and I am excited to learn the LEM. I was initially thinking of going standard DA/SA, but after much research I see how many guys run and love the LEM
Another common observation about the LEM is that it does not lend itself well to people who alternate between trigger systems. Most people who shoot it well spend 90% of their time shooting just LEM. I guess that the LEM would be the jealous bitch of the trigger world.
Most people who shoot it well spend 90% of their time shooting just LEM. I guess that the LEM would be the jealous bitch of the trigger world.
That's correct. It takes more effort to learn, and more effort to maintain. One can run into various anticipation issues, and trigger resetting work is very unique.
On the other hand, going from LEM to other triggers have been easy.
Alaskapopo
06-17-13, 02:28
The whole idea that a lightweight, short throw trigger is safer or as safe as a heavier, longer throw trigger is absurd. Obviously training is more important than the gun, but let's stay here in reality.
This is where the disagreement comes in. Safety is not a function of the trigger rather the user. I run and gun with much lighter than duty triggers in three gun and USPSA for fun and have not had an issue. There are many more like me. On the other hand you hand some person without much training a DAO auto and they have the "gun just go off" the difference is the user and their training. If you train to keep the finger off the trigger your fine. I prefer to focus on hit probability with triggers vs trying to make up for any training issues end users may have.
Pat
Almost all agencies experienced an increase in accidental discharges when they transitioned to semi autos, and the Glock in particular.
Most of the ND's that I have personal knowledge of stem from the idiot not properly clearing the weapon before field stripping it, since Glock requires a trigger pull to tear it down.
Our guys are taught "Drop the magazine and rack the slide". Some get the procedure backwards.
I am sure they are also taught to visually inspect the chamber, but just to stress this during my glock armorer course the instructor recounted an event where a user dropped the mag, racked three times and pulled the trigger on a live round. Apparently the gun had a broken extractor from the end user dropping the slide on single rounds being loaded into the chamber numerous times.
Most of the ND's that I have personal knowledge of stem from the idiot not properly clearing the weapon before field stripping it, since Glock requires a trigger pull to tear it down.
Our guys are taught "Drop the magazine and rack the slide". Some get the procedure backwards.
Just bought a P30 40 Light LEM a few weeks ago.
You guys act like learning this trigger is like learning to speak Japanese. It's not that complicated, especially if you're used to running a stock Glock trigger.
Leave the Glock at home, take the P30 LEM, a few hundred rounds and you'll be gtg on the trigger in no time. It's not rocket science.
Alaskapopo
06-17-13, 13:56
I get that some people prefer triggers with a longer pull so its easier to have a surprise break. This helps some people who have problems with pre-ignition push and some people prefer this type of pull for other reasons. I prefer a short crisp trigger pull it does not have to be super light as long as its crisp and short with a positive reset. To each his own. I would not mind putting an HK45 in my collection for fun because it seems like one of the best .45 pistols made in many ways, loved the ergonomics. But the trigger is a no go for me. Sure I can shoot it well enough but I will never shoot it as well as a good 1911 trigger or even as good as a Glock trigger. I get that everyone has what they like in a trigger. What I take exception to is people trying to pick a trigger based on a so called " safety advantage". Frankly you are either safe or you're not. No trigger system is going to make an unsafe shooter safe. This type of thinking is what has given us heavier and heavier triggers on all of our firearms over time.
Pat
Littlelebowski
06-17-13, 15:13
The FBI has a study that shows that it's travel length, not pull weight that is a factor in LE NDs.
Failure2Stop
06-17-13, 15:32
Just bought a P30 40 Light LEM a few weeks ago.
You guys act like learning this trigger is like learning to speak Japanese. It's not that complicated, especially if you're used to running a stock Glock trigger.
Leave the Glock at home, take the P30 LEM, a few hundred rounds and you'll be gtg on the trigger in no time. It's not rocket science.
Depends a lot on your expected and normal performance level with one platform in comparison to the "new".
You guys act like learning this trigger is like learning to speak Japanese. It's not that complicated, especially if you're used to running a stock Glock trigger.
Leave the Glock at home, take the P30 LEM, a few hundred rounds and you'll be gtg on the trigger in no time. It's not rocket science.
Agree 100%
Alaskapopo
06-17-13, 16:12
The FBI has a study that shows that it's travel length, not pull weight that is a factor in LE NDs.
I have not seen the study but I would be willing to bet the rate of NDs was inverse to the number of firearms training hours the officers had. More training less ND's.
Pat
Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 17:59
Here's a question that has been bothering me (because I have too much time on my hands...) : Why don't HK and other manufacturers of hammer fired pistols that offer an SA mode of fire or even the ability to go cocked and locked SA only just make the SA triggers on these guns as good as a decent 1911? Is it really too much to ask to have a 4.5-5lb trigger with minimal to no take up and a nice crisp short reset?
Clearly the shooting public loves the triggers on a 1911, because other than an excellent trigger there is not much else going for old slab sides other than a slim profile and good looks (I like 1911's not bashing them). Would anyone here have an objection to an HK that had no DA capability, but in return offered a trigger that was crisp at 4.5-5lbs with little take up and a short reset?
If I were king or just owned HK I would greatly reduce the huge swath of trigger options on the USP/P30/HK45 down to just two: Single action cocked and locked with a trigger that is as close to a 1911 as possible, and the LEM. That way both camps have the choice they want, those that like more trigger travel for their own valid reasons can get it in a trigger that is quite useful. Those of us that just want in effect a pistol with all the advantages of a modern pistol that retains the great trigger characteristics of the 1911 can get that too. I have had the chances in the past to shoot both the USP Tactical, and a USP Expert with the match triggers, and those two guns were on the right track for that.
To hell with the DA/SA, I've yet to meet anyone who raved about how smooth and easy to master the HK DA trigger was. While I understand and accept that training can overcome this, it doesn't mean it's easy. Nor is it logical to select the horrible DA/SA when other better options exist that you can become proficient with more quickly. The other day I played around with two P30's one in DA/SA and the other in LEM, and honestly for deliberate shooting I think the LEM would be just as good as the SA trigger on the DA/SA. I swear the two triggers broke at so close to the same weight as to make no difference, had virtually the same amount of travel to the point the hammer would fall (after the LEM was staged), and had the same reset as far as I could tell. The LEM had the distinct advantage of not having a god awful DA trigger pull for the first shot though. For someone willing to carry in condition 1 that's not a big deal but cocked and locked makes some people nervous. Plus if I am going to carry cocked and locked, I want the damn trigger to be worth it as a payoff for the extra training needed to carry in that manner safely!
High Tower
06-17-13, 18:09
Here's a question that has been bothering me (because I have too much time on my hands...) : Why don't HK and other manufacturers of hammer fired pistols that offer an SA mode of fire or even the ability to go cocked and locked SA only just make the SA triggers on these guns as good as a decent 1911? Is it really too much to ask to have a 4.5-5lb trigger with minimal to no take up and a nice crisp short reset?
HK does depending on the variant. Lots of HK carrying folks carry cocked and locked like a 1911.
Sig makes some SAO models.
Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 18:34
I know the capability is there, so let me clarify: why can't HK offer a single action trigger that is as good as that of a decent 1911? Merely operating in SA with the ability to run cocked and locked doesn't mean the trigger is as good as a 1911's in take up, clean break, over travel, and reset.
I had forgotten about the SIG Sauer pistols that are SA only, so we know it is doable. I'd rather have the HK though given equal trigger quality.
Psalms144.1
06-17-13, 19:58
Coal Dragger - I'm with you, brother. As much as the LEM trigger doesn't present much of an obstacle to me, I would MUCH prefer a dedicated SAO P30 (or P2000) with a crisp, clean-breaking 4.5-5.5# trigger.
In fact, make my combination a P2000 in 9mm, and a P30L in .40, each with a SAO trigger module and a USEABLE manual safety (I'm not terribly fond of the shape or placement of HK's recent attempts), and I'd bench my Glocks.
Regards,
Kevin
I know the capability is there, so let me clarify: why can't HK offer a single action trigger that is as good as that of a decent 1911? Merely operating in SA with the ability to run cocked and locked doesn't mean the trigger is as good as a 1911's in take up, clean break, over travel, and reset.
I had forgotten about the SIG Sauer pistols that are SA only, so we know it is doable. I'd rather have the HK though given equal trigger quality.
Admittedly I don't know much about 1911s. I have one, but beyond basic stripping, I am no 'smith. But, I think the 1911 trigger system/mechanism is different than that of Glock/HK/Sig/etc.
If you want an OE trigger for C&L that's close to a 1911, the USP-Tactical is the way to go (40 or 45). The match trigger that comes in them is very very nice. It's a light pull and comes with an overtravel adjustment screw. Or you could buy the match trigger separate and install it in any USP, of course.
Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 21:10
I'm no mechanical engineer either, but a hammer fired mechanism shouldn't need to be radically different from platform to platform. So if a 1911 can have the trigger quality that it does, and a SA only SIG can as well (I forgot that I once finger banged a P226 X5, awesome trigger in that pistol) then why can't HK pull it off too? I'm not suggesting they put in some silly 2lb race gun trigger just a nice useful 4.5-5lb trigger that mimics the feel of a 1911 trigger in operation.
My old USP45 had essentially all the mechanical accuracy of most any good 1911, but was let down by a less than ideal trigger, and less than ideal ergonomics. With the P30 and HK45 the ergonomics issue is gone, but the trigger still hasn't been addressed. If this were a bargain priced gun we were talking about that would be one thing, but at close to $1K I don't feel it unreasonable to expect some refinement to go along with the robust reliability and dependability. I guarantee if HK were to drop a trigger in that was SAO that was demonstrably as good as that in a decent 1911 they would sell a metric shit ton of them to 1911 guys looking for more modern features and reliability with the trigger they love. I can't be alone in this desire.
H&K is obviously capable of making nice triggers; P7M8 had one of the best out-of-box triggers.
I don't speak with any level of inside knowledge, but methinks to them the quality of trigger pull is secondary to a build philosophy, forest vs tree kind of thing. They test their weapons like nobody else does, so perhaps generous lock work engagement surfaces are more robust in extreme environments, at expense of crisp break. They put heavy springs in so trigger pull is heavy too - but they don't get light strikes on hard primers, first hand experience vs own Glocks that don't like hard primers. In concept, what LEM achieves is remarkable from a service pistol standpoint, so perhaps they couldn't care less if reset is huge.
Just my guess.
Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 21:21
Your guess may not be far off, and since they are primarily concerned with service type contracts and they know the bean counters that usually pick service weapons could care less about trigger quality, that means they don't care either.
I would note that a heavy trigger spring doesn't have much to do with the ability of the gun to deal with hard primers, I think you're thinking of the hammer spring and if so you're right. Then again I doubt very seriously that a reduced power hammer spring would be needed for a 4.5-5lb SA trigger pull. For that matter I don't know that a crisper trigger would be any more vulnerable to grit and debris than a mushy one.
Even if you pay for an better trigger on a Glock and stipple it etc and say it ends up costing more than the P30 which is unlikely. With the Glock you ended up with a easier to shoot pistol due to the trigger and low bore axis. It would be nice if HK removed their head from their rear and stopped making horrible trigger pulls. I could even live with the top heavy muzzle flip magnifying high bore axis but the trigger is a deal killer. I am not saying HK pistols are junk they are solid my first duty pistol was a HK USP in 45 acp. But I have never regretted selling that gun.
Pat
At my house, a P30 slide seems to weigh less than a GLOCK 19. Infact, I believe the P30L may even weigh less.
Failure2Stop
06-18-13, 06:53
At my house, a P30 slide seems to weigh less than a GLOCK 19. Infact, I believe the P30L may even weigh less.
Interesting, I never compared them.
Yes. HK USA has not heard of it.
Most probable. I think there still is lot to be done about information flow between HK USA and HK Gmbh. Other example is bundling MR762 LRP with LaRue bipod adapter for Harris, while HK Gmbh makes much better Harris bi-pod adapter.
I will try to push things a little from this end.
Actually getting this trigger was result of small misunderstanding. I was trying to convince HK guys that they should make short reset version of LEM for civi market. Their answer was "but we have it, will send it for review". When I go trigger and installed it, I found out that it is not "reduced reset", but "reduced travel". Polish and German guys trying to communicate in English :lol:
Why don't HK and other manufacturers of hammer fired pistols that offer an SA mode of fire or even the ability to go cocked and locked SA only just make the SA triggers on these guns as good as a decent 1911? Is it really too much to ask to have a 4.5-5lb trigger with minimal to no take up and a nice crisp short reset?
Easy. "Decent 1911 trigger" means hand fitting. Also "decent 1911 trigger" last without need of gunsmiths work or parts replacement like 5000, tops 10000 rounds. Unacceptable by modern durability standards for service weapons in most of the World (I mean all of the World, except some areas with strong 1911 sentiments).
As far as shooting the LEM, I may be a little different. If it is a fast shot from the draw, like in competition I do somewhat of a press out and usually by the time my sights are on target I roll through the break. When I say on target, I mean the exact spot I want to hit. I do not begin taking up slack until my muzzle is on the target. When I am trying to make a very precise shot, say on a walk back drill or shooting groups at 25+ yards, I take all the initial slack from the trigger (just like one does with a 2-stage match rifle trigger) and once this is done, then I gently press straight to the rear for the shot. Very much like how a lot of guys shoot revolver at the 50 yd line in PPC. For Me, I do the best like this. I also shoot better with a S&W revolver vs a Colt Python. The Python doesn't have that last little spot to stage on like the S&W and lends it's self better to a rollin break. If you haven't been, watch some videos on youtube of guys running smith revolvers in PPC, watch the hammer and you'll get an idea of what I am describing. Again, this is what works for me, it may not be the case for you. For me, the LEM is more like a 2 stage AR trigger than a DA trigger.*
As far as a P30 cocked & locked like a 1911; isn't that what the P30S & P30LS was? Granted, the trigger may not be like a Springer Pro or Wilson CQB, but it is an $850 pistol, not a $2500+ one.*
Guys, HK is not for everyone. The P30 is not for everyone. If you despise HK that's cool, but please don't sit there and keep dumping negative comments into a informative thread about a pistol because you personally don't like it. Just because it is not your cup of tea does not make it any less capable of a sidearm. The trigger is different, but there are guys out there who can smoke most everyone else with a LEM P30 or any other pistol you stick in their hand. Just the numbers Todd Green turned in on drills with the P30 alone during his eval does nothing but support this. As far as it's a slow trigger, that's why you don't see it more in top competitions.... I highly doubt it. I think if we dig, we would see it has more to do with the amount of money & sponsered guns HK puts out into the competition world vs guys disliking HK triggers.*
When we get down to it for a defensive pistol...
Is it reliable?....check. Probably the top of the pack.
Is it accurate?.... Check. One of the most currently produced.
Is it supported?.... Check. You can't find parts at Wally World, but if you look in the right spots you can.
Way on down the line is how long the take up is, reset is or how high it sits in your hand; because if you can shoot well, these things matter less & less.*
Interesting, I never compared them.
The P30 has a lot of excess metal trimmed out from around the firing pin, where as behind the breech face of the glock, it is pretty much solid save the striker channel. Thiose lightening cuts on the P30 are one of the roadblocks to mounting a RDS to the P30.
Anyone with a P-30 that's interested in converting their pistol to the reduced pretravel "V4.1 LEM" That Montrala mentioned, go over to HK pro forum and look for his post in the handgun forum,titled "short pretravel 4.1 LEM" follow his link, and he lists the parts (and part numbers needed) this info provided by HK! because they hate you :lol:
Anyone with a P-30 that's interested in converting their pistol to the reduced pretravel "V4.1 LEM" That Montrala mentioned, go over to HK pro forum and look for his post in the handgun forum,titled "short pretravel 4.1 LEM" follow his link, and he lists the parts (and part numbers needed) this info provided by HK! because they hate you :lol:
Or, if you hate HKPro, go straight to my blog :rolleyes:
Or, if you hate HKPro, go straight to my blog :rolleyes:
Montrala:
just wanted to say thanks for all the info.. I intend to get the parts here shortly, I think this will be a huge improvement in the LEM triggers..
Montrala:
I intend to get the parts here shortly, I think this will be a huge improvement in the LEM triggers..
Don't know if I expect it to be huge. I'd definitely want to try it, and I think it'll be "nicer", but I won't be surprised if performance improvement is marginal.
Don't know if I expect it to be huge. I'd definitely want to try it, and I think it'll be "nicer", but I won't be surprised if performance improvement is marginal.
As will everything, probably will come down to personal preference. But I think V4.1 can be little easier for those who start with LEM, while for those who already mastered LEM improvement may be marginal. Personally, I feel improvement and I use LEM for over 10 years in several HK handguns.
Now, how to convince HK to go straight to V4.2 that will have reset reduced as well? Going down to 4mm or even 5mm from 7.5mm (nominal 7mm per HK data) would make difference for bigger number of owners.
Or, if you hate HKPro, go straight to my blog :rolleyes:
Got a link???
Got a link???
Bottom line of my signature.
Well everyone i got one! it was right at $1000 with night sights and so far i love everything about it and i'm already use to the trigger. This thing is made amazingly!
Congratulations. Hopefully it will shoot straight for you, unlike this thread that went way off track.
What version did you get?
I got the V3 so its the version everyone says is "bad" lol I personally think it's a great handgun and the feel of it in your hand is just wonderful. Every time it recoils it just like feels good.
There's nothing "bad" about a V3. It's just a standard DA/SA trigger like many other pistols. If you don't mind a DA/SA trigger, the V3 shines just like every other P30. There isn't a better 9mm pistol made, IMO, than the P30 and that's coming from someone who primarily shoots Glocks.
I got the V3 so its the version everyone says is "bad" lol I personally think it's a great handgun and the feel of it in your hand is just wonderful. Every time it recoils it just like feels good.
V3 is not "bad". It is just not everyone likes it. Personally I do not like it, because I seem to have problem with... SA portion of it. DA works fine for me. Go figure.
But be aware, HKs like to multiply and even one is enough to start process. This can be sad news for wallet :smile:
davidjinks
06-21-13, 12:06
Dzoeń dobry!
Is it just me, or does everyone read Montrala's posts with a thick Polish accent??? :)
V3 is not "bad". It is just not everyone likes it. Personally I do not like it, because I seem to have problem with... SA portion of it. DA works fine for me. Go figure.
But be aware, HKs like to multiply and even one is enough to start process. This can be sad news for wallet :smile:
Just pullin your leg brother!
In regards to the OP...
I tried out a P30 LEM 9MM. To be honest I didn't give it a fair shake. I gave up trying to learn a new gun. Fast forward a couple years and I've got a P30S in 40 S&W.
I decided to go back to the P30 to try it out again. The Glocks I was using in 40 refused to run for me and I couldn't justify the waste of ammo, money and time to make them run.
Trading in my Gen 4 Glock 22 and 17 I decided to get the P30S. As usual, the gun fits like a glove. Compact enough for EDC and light enough to not really notice it.
Getting back into DA, I thought, was going to be tough. Though it is a long hard pull it is easy to overcome. SA is good, not great but I didn't buy a custom 1911.
I like the ambi everything the P30 offers. I kida wish the safety was designed a bit differently because there is a small portion that digs into my thumb. Adjusted grip takes care of that but still would like to see a better design.
The accuracy was outstanding. Besides my P7M8, this is the most accuarate pistol I own. I am not an über pistol accuracy laser precision pistol shooter. For me, 15 yards in a solid stance with a 2-2.75" group is phenomenal (That's definitely not the norm for me). At 25 yards I was able to hold a solid 8" square for 2 full mags all in the black at a moderate pace. My early model Gen 3 G17 and P7 are the only other guns I can do this with.
155, 165 and 180 grain pills got digested without issue. No malfunctions, no slide bite and no short stroking the trigger. Reset is a little weird to get used too but I manage. Best of it all, the gun runs with a light and runs when conducting weak hand/injury drills without malfunctions.
I do know I've learned a lot from reading Montrala's posts here and else where. I greatly appreciate the information.
Dzoeń dobry!
Is it just me, or does everyone read Montrala's posts with a thick Polish accent??? :)
It is just you. Popular comments are that I speak like Borat ;)
davidjinks
06-21-13, 14:32
I'll just continue reading your posts with a polish accent. I can't stand Borat.
It is just you. Popular comments are that I speak like Borat ;)
Nothing at all wrong with V3.....only you can decide what you like for your intended purpose. I shoot light LEM and DA/SA HK's and they both work great for me. Glad you like it.
Psalms144.1
06-22-13, 11:54
I'm another shooter who prefers TDA over LEM, unfortunately you can't convert my P30 from LEM to TDA, or I would have already run that switch. I'd prefer to have one long DA pull with a lot of short reset, crisp SA pulls than a whole string of "meh" pulls.
But, I recognize that I'm in the SIGNIFICANT minority on that issue...
Hogsgunwild
06-23-13, 06:58
I'm another shooter who prefers TDA over LEM, unfortunately you can't convert my P30 from LEM to TDA, or I would have already run that switch. I'd prefer to have one long DA pull with a lot of short reset, crisp SA pulls than a whole string of "meh" pulls.
But, I recognize that I'm in the SIGNIFICANT minority on that issue...
And you have identified the main reason why my "go to" guns are now Walthers, and I keep my Apex M&Ps and some 1911s: The "meh" pulls. As much as I know that the H&Ks could easily be my only brand, they are not, only due to the "meh" effect.
The single action on the P30 is "ok" when compared to 1911. With the P30S, it gives the option of cocked and locked.
The PPQ trigger is short and light, with an extremely short reset, but is mushy like a glock.
Hogsgunwild
06-23-13, 08:58
The PPQ trigger is short and light, with an extremely short reset, but is mushy like a glock.
I never thought much about the PPQ's mushiness (even after owning many Glocks) until I spent a couple of months shooting only my P99AS compacts. When I got back on a PPQ, it was apparent and I tend to actually prefer the P99AS due to it's cleaner feel prior to the break.
I will add that the P99AS break is not that different from the H&K's light LEM break, but, the longer take-up makes the triggers seem like two totally different animals.
Actually I didn't notice at first either, but going back to HKs and 1911s it is really obvious.
Hogsgunwild
06-23-13, 09:16
Actually I didn't notice at first either, but going back to HKs and 1911s it is really obvious.
Yes, it is. I was surprised that it took me a range session to get back up to speed on the PPQ after using the P99. I had to remaster the mushiness that I was not aware that I had apparently "mastered" (for lack of a better term) before.
Not to threadjack, but I'm curious. I love my LEM P30, I want to switch from carrying the 1911 to the P30 for EDC. So, my question to those of you that are carrying it, which IWB holster and why? I know that different brands have been hashed out here and there, but I was hoping to get p30 specific thoughts. Thanks.
Psalms144.1
06-24-13, 12:36
Nick - the answer for me is the same as always - FIST #1K "ultrathin" kydex clip on IWB. Adds essentially no bulk to the pistol and the clip is heck for strong.
If I was inclined to branch out and try something new, I'd look at Contact Concealment's kydex offerings, but, right now, I'm good where I'm at!
Regards,
Kevin
Not to threadjack, but I'm curious. I love my LEM P30, I want to switch from carrying the 1911 to the P30 for EDC. So, my question to those of you that are carrying it, which IWB holster and why? I know that different brands have been hashed out here and there, but I was hoping to get p30 specific thoughts. Thanks.
The transition to P30 for me was partially driven by a change to an appendix IWB carry. I use Custom Carry Concepts' Shaggy and Josh Kolbeson's appendix holsters, both lightly modified. Both are high quality purpose designed rigs, which is why I use them.
P30 has been around for some time, you can get just about any holster for it.
Has anyone had a accidental mag release during shooting? I was shooting a P30 and had this happen a few times. Im thinking my grip is hitting the mag release during recoil.
High Tower
07-05-13, 17:46
Has anyone had a accidental mag release during shooting? I was shooting a P30 and had this happen a few times. Im thinking my grip is hitting the mag release during recoil.
Never dumped a mag on a P30 or any other paddle style release.
Has anyone had a accidental mag release during shooting? I was shooting a P30 and had this happen a few times. Im thinking my grip is hitting the mag release during recoil.
It might be possible. The support hand index finger can get in that area if it's a bit wonky on the grip.
I own several HKs including a P30S 9mm as well as a couple of Walthers with the paddle-style mag release---never had an issue with dropping the mag while shooting---and all my HKs are fitted with the "large" mag release.
As much as I love my P30S, I would think it would be a tad too big and long for IWB carry. I would much rather carry my P2000 9mm in the IWB mode---that's just my personal opinion...
...........................
I own an HK45 and P30L. It takes me about one mag to get used to the trigger if Ive been shooting some other gun. I can shoot M.O. Bad guy no problem, but to start stacking holes I need a mag if its been a couple months.
HK guns are the most refined weapons on earth. After reading through the M&P problem threads and Glock extractor threads, it makes you appreciate your HK.
SA/DA is like any other thing, its training. HK's are not for everyone, fine. I am always amazed how effortlessly they cycle and feed. They just got it!! Brace yourself, Markm is now shooting his FNX SA/DA pistol with much glory. You never know till you try one-SA/DA. (That FNX45 is a diamond in the ruff)
I bought an HK45C yesterday, well just because I wanted to celebrate my independence.
The transition to P30 for me was partially driven by a change to an appendix IWB carry. I use Custom Carry Concepts' Shaggy and Josh Kolbeson's appendix holsters, both lightly modified. Both are high quality purpose designed rigs, which is why I use them.
P30 has been around for some time, you can get just about any holster for it.
I have been using a comptac for AIWB on a p30l. I have a shaggy for a p2000sk but I ordered it with the soft belt loops, it prints too much, so I am waiting for different belt attachments to arrive.
The shaggy may be more comfortable, but I don't have much time with it.
I own an HK45 and P30L. It takes me about one mag to get used to the trigger if Ive been shooting some other gun. I can shoot M.O. Bad guy no problem, but to start stacking holes I need a mag if its been a couple months.
HK guns are the most refined weapons on earth. After reading through the M&P problem threads and Glock extractor threads, it makes you appreciate your HK.
SA/DA is like any other thing, its training. HK's are not for everyone, fine. I am always amazed how effortlessly they cycle and feed. They just got it!! Brace yourself, Markm is now shooting his FNX SA/DA pistol with much glory. You never know till you try one-SA/DA. (That FNX45 is a diamond in the ruff)
I bought an HK45C yesterday, well just because I wanted to celebrate my independence.
This brings to mind a old saying that I think was attributed to Mercedes Benz, built to a standard not a price. The glock, m&p seem like they are built to meet a price point. You may be paying a premium for the HK name, but it also includes one heck of a pistol.
I need one of the new HK 45T or CTs too
Hey pappabear---congrats on your 4th of July 45C---had one for over a year now---favorite 45 for OWB carry, but I suppose you could carry it IWB with the right holster. For OWB carry, I recommend the Galco "Concealable" model---fits the pistol precisely and holds the gun tight to the body. Still, for IWB, I find the smaller P2000 9mm the best for me...
The 45C , should be 45 " service" because its not small, just smaller than the big HK45, which the HK45 is just a smaller MK23, they are some large fine handguns.
decodeddiesel
07-08-13, 02:09
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't miss my P30 LEM which I modified into a V0. :( By far my favorite pistol I have ever owned, even though it did require a break-in with "euro-spec" 124gr 9mm.
...........................
Not to threadjack, but I'm curious. I love my LEM P30, I want to switch from carrying the 1911 to the P30 for EDC. So, my question to those of you that are carrying it, which IWB holster and why? I know that different brands have been hashed out here and there, but I was hoping to get p30 specific thoughts. Thanks.
Blade tech Nano IWB for now simply cause my LGS had one available. Have a JM Custom Kydex AIWB on order. The blade tech does a good job of concealment. I'm 5'6" 178# and with a loose covering garment it's a non issue.
Blade tech Nano IWB for now simply cause my LGS had one available.
You may find that it becomes a favorite. It'd a great value for an inexpensive holster.
Okie John
decodeddiesel
07-08-13, 17:49
Not to threadjack, but I'm curious. I love my LEM P30, I want to switch from carrying the 1911 to the P30 for EDC. So, my question to those of you that are carrying it, which IWB holster and why? I know that different brands have been hashed out here and there, but I was hoping to get p30 specific thoughts. Thanks.
I carried mine in a Comp-tac MTAC for a while, as well as a CCC Shaggy. Do you carry AIWB or regular (3-5 o'clock)?
Better late than never....
I carried mine in a Comp-tac MTAC for a while, as well as a CCC Shaggy. Do you carry AIWB or regular (3-5 o'clock)?
I carry about 4:00, IWB with the Comptac Minotaur. I like the holster generally, but a slightly slimmer one would be nice. I have considered going to appendix carry, but I always talk myself out of messing with what works. The gun prints a little, but I don't worry about it in the winter. I live in hoodie country. I have decided that pretty soon I am going to pick up the exact same gun in .40, so hopefully I get the same results.
babypanther
12-31-13, 13:45
I am issued a P2000 in 40 S&W with the LEM trigger, I have to use the XL grip in order to fit my hands well. I have not actually shot the P30, only played with one in a gun store. I was immediately impressed with how well it fit my hands. and I also liked the larger mag release tabs on the P30. I think it would be a much better duty gun than what we are issued now.
I purchased a P30 a few days ago. The first 150 rnds popped off flawlessly. A keeper so far.
P30's are great. The ergo on them makes it comfortable - the trigger. but that can be worked on a bit depending on where you go. Once you have one, you'll love it.
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