View Full Version : Springfield XDS 9mm
mike benedict
06-09-13, 07:10
I picked up a Springfield XDS 9mm yesterday
It looks like a pretty nice little blaster.
I'm making a holster for it this morning then hitting the range to try it out.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p480x480/996723_471721152911370_1028773318_n.jpg
Ive never had a speck of interest in any Springfields until this was announced...
Once theyre readily available I'll be picking one of these up too. I loved the way the XDS 45 felt in my hand, just wasnt crazy about the .45...but in 9mm I bet its a winner
Last week I went looking for a Shield bit none were availabe locally. I bought one of these instead. I may be interested in a holster from you.
dookie1481
06-09-13, 13:40
I shot one the other day. It was very nice, very comparable to the Shield. I might pick one up.
I fondled the XDS9 at SHOT. I ended up getting the 45 because I already have a 9mm I CCW. My XDS is a great shooter. Ive fed it a variety of ammo from cheap target stuff to +P defense loads and it runs everything 100%. Its a handy little pistol regardless of what the cool kids say.
What are these running for ($$)? How hard are spare magazines to source?
Thanks!
Hi Mike, thanks for the look at this little popgun. thoughts vs. Shield?..
brickboy240
06-11-13, 12:12
I thought the "rule" around here was Glock, HK and sometimes M&P?
LOL
-brickboy240
What are these running for ($$)? How hard are spare magazines to source?
Thanks!
They're selling for $550ish around these parts
I thought the "rule" around here was Glock, HK and sometimes M&P?
LOL
-brickboy240
Those are the rules. Although if you're interested in something else, you have to be able to tune out the background noise from the pros.:D
It's the same size as the .45 and a little heavier so I see no need. I have the .45.
Honestly I feel SA should have released the 9mm first.
But I can see how they appealed to the average American shooter that has to be macho and carry a 45.
What are these running for ($$)? How hard are spare magazines to source?
Thanks!
Bought the extended magazine which comes with 2 extended grips for $32 plus tax on my LGS 2 days ago.
I waited on the 9 but after holding one changed my mind. It is the same size as the 45 but heavier. The XD compact doesn't give anything up to the XDS but a little width. I'll take capacity over bulk all day long. GH
dookie1481
06-11-13, 22:38
I thought the "rule" around here was Glock, HK and sometimes M&P?
LOL
-brickboy240
There are some people who think whatever the "hive" thinks, and there are people who make decisions for themselves.
dookie1481
06-11-13, 22:39
Honestly I feel SA should have released the 9mm first.
But I can see how they appealed to the average American shooter that has to be macho and carry a 45.
I thought it was a fairly typical (read: stupid) Springfield Armory move.
theblackknight
06-12-13, 20:34
The shop got both in, and a mess load of the extended 45 mags . The feed ramps are soo dam shiny from the factory you could use it as a signal mirror.+1 for SA. .Also comes with extra fiber in red and green. The 45 is just too snapy for me. Why do they keep making new versions of the XD and keep the grip safety?
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Agreed. If they would just dump the damn grip safety they would have a contender.
FlatFender
06-13-13, 00:13
What are these running for ($$)? How hard are spare magazines to source?
Thanks!
My XDs 9mm was $571 out the door at my fun shop.
I've got about 250ish rounds through it now, hell of a little shooter. Carries apendix great as well. I would like to find some night sights for it eventually.
Also, Springfield had magazines in stock in their web store a couple days ago, I ordered two more.
arizona98tj
06-15-13, 17:08
The XD45 compact is heavier, taller, longer, and wider when compared to the XDs45....at least mine was when I compared the two.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/temp/xdfamily.jpg
AngryBeaver
06-15-13, 17:21
I have an XDS 45. Love it. I had an xd9sc and xd9. Then I bought a sig 938 for carry and waited to find an XDS 45. It shoots great, not sure I'd want a nine in the same size or bigger frame.
As a Shield and PPS owner, I am a bit envious of the OP. The XDS 45 trigger was fantastic, I hope the XDS 9 is the same.
To the Op, What's the trigger like? Any drag leading to the break? How's the reset?
Sorry for all questions, I'm very curious and jealous.
Agreed. If they would just dump the damn grip safety they would have a contender.
Agree with that! That's one of my pet peeves with that pistol! Get rid of it then I just might get one.
Why all the hate for the grip safety? I guess growing up with many 1911s I don't even notice it there. GH
Crow Hunter
06-23-13, 14:03
Agree with that! That's one of my pet peeves with that pistol! Get rid of it then I just might get one.
They can't.
If they did, you would have the equivalent of a 1911 without a manual safety or a DA/SA handgun with the hammer cocked all the time.
The XD series has the striker fully cocked all the time with an extremely light trigger pull, most people would not carry a 1911 without the safety engaged or a DA/SA cocked for safety reasons.
On top of that, IIRC the grip safety is part of the import points needed to bring them into the US per the 1968 GCA. Like the "thumb rests" and serrated instead of smooth triggers on smaller Glock pistols.
Why all the hate for the grip safety? I guess growing up with many 1911s I don't even notice it there. GH
The XD grip safety doesn't function like the 1911 grip safety.
The XD grip safety doesn't function like the 1911 grip safety.
Really? I didn't know that. How is it different?
I am considering a 9MM XDs for summer carry, and like the extra safety feature.
They both prevent the gun from firing but do it different ways mechanically. GH
Why all the hate for the grip safety? I guess growing up with many 1911s I don't even notice it there. GH
A situation involving deadly force is already a situation where things have gone wrong and is ALWAYS less than ideal.
Throw in stress, wet hands and about a billion other unknown circumstances and a grip safety becomes a liability rather than a boon.
Ever come out of the holster with a bad grip and simply stopped the draw to correct yourself and do it over again?
That is training, that luxury does not exist in a life or death situation and if the gun doesnt go bang when you need it to there is a SERIOUS problem.
The XD's safety isnt THAT bad as it activates fairly easily. The issue that i and many other people have with it is that if it is not depressed perfectly, the slide cannot be retracted which again, can result in death since a malfunction is bad enough as is. Throw in the aforementioned unknown factors and life just gets worse...
The NICE thing about the XDS series is that you CAN retract the slide when the safety is NOT depressed. This is a HUGE improvement for the platform, or for this gun.
I have shot one before. XD 9mm. Nice pistol. Still though the grip safety at least for me is the issue. Get rid of it then I think it would be a nice one to have.
It's the same size as the .45 and a little heavier so I see no need. I have the .45.
I'm right there with you !
I have been carrying one since they first came out last year and it is a perfect EDC .45
I see no reason to buy one in a caliber that in my parts is almost impossible to score ammo for.
9mm JHP cost as much as .45 JHP so I see no reason to buy the same gun in a smaller caliber.
I have over 500 rounds through my .45 XDs and if the 9mm lives up to it's big brothers standards,will be a great 9mm EDC for those who don't want a .45.
DAT85
STONE-YARDER
06-24-13, 21:25
A situation involving deadly force is already a situation where things have gone wrong and is ALWAYS less than ideal.
Throw in stress, wet hands and about a billion other unknown circumstances and a grip safety becomes a liability rather than a boon.
Ever come out of the holster with a bad grip and simply stopped the draw to correct yourself and do it over again?
That is training, that luxury does not exist in a life or death situation and if the gun doesnt go bang when you need it to there is a SERIOUS problem.
The XD's safety isnt THAT bad as it activates fairly easily. The issue that i and many other people have with it is that if it is not depressed perfectly, the slide cannot be retracted which again, can result in death since a malfunction is bad enough as is. Throw in the aforementioned unknown factors and life just gets worse...
The NICE thing about the XDS series is that you CAN retract the slide when the safety is NOT depressed. This is a HUGE improvement for the platform, or for this gun.
Have you experienced all of this and actually owned an XDM or is this just a hypothetical situation you contrived to prove a ridiculous point? I have to call bullshit on this one. If you don't have a solid grip on your pistol then you need to train more. Even mentioning drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous. The pistol should not even come out of the holster without a firm positive grip. If ANY gun doesn't go bang in a life threatening situation its a SERIOUS PROBLEM. I own 3 xdm's and after 10k rounds or so I have not had one issue with the grip safety or with any of them in any way whatsoever. They run like sewing machines and are tack drivers and to be honest I have beat the snot out of them, torture tested them and they keep coming back for more.
Have you experienced all of this and actually owned an XDM or is this just a hypothetical situation you contrived to prove a ridiculous point? I have to call bullshit on this one. If you don't have a solid grip on your pistol then you need to train more. Even mentioning drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous. The pistol should not even come out of the holster without a firm positive grip. If ANY gun doesn't go bang in a life threatening situation its a SERIOUS PROBLEM. I own 3 xdm's and after 10k rounds or so I have not had one issue with the grip safety or with any of them in any way whatsoever. They run like sewing machines and are tack drivers and to be honest I have beat the snot out of them, torture tested them and they keep coming back for more.
This is M4C, not arfcom. Maybe you should realize that unforeseen,
uncontrollable things happen in the real world, up to and including a poor grip in a shooting situation.
The guns, bluntly, do not have a track record of running like sewing machines. A few individual guns might, most do not. Further, no one gives a crap if they are tack drivers or not. The focus of this forum is on reliable, real world performance when it matters most, something the XD series has not yet proven. It doesn't matter why, how, or what may or might be - all that matters are the facts of firearm construction, endurance, and performance. Glock, S&W, and HK all make models that have been vetted by countless LE departments and militaries - none of them utilize grip safeties that might compromise a users ability to fire or clear a weapon. That is called a clue.
Run your XDM for 10k rounds without cleaning or lubrication and document every malfunction and stoppage and post the results here, then you might have some credibility to stand on. Until you and others can manage to post something that can provide hard, conclusive evidence that the XD series has managed to turn itself around and perform like the polymer pistols from other manufacturers have been performing for the last few decades, your posts will carry little weight and come across like fanboy praise, nothing more.
Have you experienced all of this and actually owned an XDM or is this just a hypothetical situation you contrived to prove a ridiculous point? I have to call bullshit on this one. If you don't have a solid grip on your pistol then you need to train more. Even mentioning drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous. The pistol should not even come out of the holster without a firm positive grip. If ANY gun doesn't go bang in a life threatening situation its a SERIOUS PROBLEM. I own 3 xdm's and after 10k rounds or so I have not had one issue with the grip safety or with any of them in any way whatsoever. They run like sewing machines and are tack drivers and to be honest I have beat the snot out of them, torture tested them and they keep coming back for more.
While it probably isn't LIKELY to happen, it can be an issue. I'm not going to go looking for the thread but there was a guy on either Defensivecarry or 1911forum that had to use his 1911 (I believe it was a DW CBOB) to defend himself against an armed home invader. At some point during the shootout he was shot in his gun hand which rendered him unable to actuate the grip safety. Luckily for him, the bad guy ran off and was later apprehended.
Crow Hunter
06-25-13, 07:14
Have you experienced all of this and actually owned an XDM or is this just a hypothetical situation you contrived to prove a ridiculous point? I have to call bullshit on this one. If you don't have a solid grip on your pistol then you need to train more. Even mentioning drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous. The pistol should not even come out of the holster without a firm positive grip. If ANY gun doesn't go bang in a life threatening situation its a SERIOUS PROBLEM. I own 3 xdm's and after 10k rounds or so I have not had one issue with the grip safety or with any of them in any way whatsoever. They run like sewing machines and are tack drivers and to be honest I have beat the snot out of them, torture tested them and they keep coming back for more.
My brother had an XD 40.
He rode an ATV in the mud with an open topped holster. A dollop of mud got under/into the grip safety. Interestingly enough, it was the only place on the gun that had mud on it.
It wouldn't fire and it couldn't be cleared because the grip safety couldn't be fully compressed. Eventually, we managed, very carefully to wash/knock the grain of sand that got into the inner workings out of a loaded gun and it would operate again. He sold it soon afterwards.
While at a training class in June 2008, there was a woman there who had an XD9. She had repeated failures to fire during drills. One of the instructors stayed with her for pretty much 1/2 of the first day's class. Turned out her grip was not consistently depressing the grip safety among other issues related to the muddy conditions. The instructors gave her a G19 to finish the course so she could focus on learning not fighting the gun.
If the XD works for you and meets your expectations of performance and reliability, rock on. It doesn't meet everyone's.
Agreed. If they would just dump the damn grip safety they would have a contender.
Agree.
What sights come on it?
C4
Why all the hate for the grip safety? I guess growing up with many 1911s I don't even notice it there. GH
I am a 1911 shooter. The grip safeties are not equal.
C4
William B.
06-25-13, 07:41
I'm not going to go looking for the thread but there was a guy on either Defensivecarry or 1911forum that had to use his 1911 (I believe it was a DW CBOB) to defend himself against an armed home invader. At some point during the shootout he was shot in his gun hand which rendered him unable to actuate the grip safety. Luckily for him, the bad guy ran off and was later apprehended.
I think this may be the thread to which you are referring. Great read for any of you who have a minute.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45461
Agreed. If they would just dump the damn grip safety they would have a contender.
Agreed x2.
I won't consider one with a grip safety.
Have you experienced all of this and actually owned an XDM or is this just a hypothetical situation you contrived to prove a ridiculous point? I have to call bullshit on this one. If you don't have a solid grip on your pistol then you need to train more. Even mentioning drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous. The pistol should not even come out of the holster without a firm positive grip. If ANY gun doesn't go bang in a life threatening situation its a SERIOUS PROBLEM. I own 3 xdm's and after 10k rounds or so I have not had one issue with the grip safety or with any of them in any way whatsoever. They run like sewing machines and are tack drivers and to be honest I have beat the snot out of them, torture tested them and they keep coming back for more.
As they say "stuff happens."
What I cannot understand is why? Why do people buy this gun. If these pistols were say, cheaper than a Glock, M&P, PPQ, etc, I would consider it, but they aren't. In the case of the XDS 9, it is a full $100 dollars over a shield. Not sure how anyone can pay that.
While I don't think the XD line of pistols suck, they would be my last choice behind, HK, Walther, Glock, & S&W.
C4
Have you experienced all of this and actually owned an XDM or is this just a hypothetical situation you contrived to prove a ridiculous point? I have to call bullshit on this one. If you don't have a solid grip on your pistol then you need to train more. Even mentioning drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous. The pistol should not even come out of the holster without a firm positive grip. If ANY gun doesn't go bang in a life threatening situation its a SERIOUS PROBLEM. I own 3 xdm's and after 10k rounds or so I have not had one issue with the grip safety or with any of them in any way whatsoever. They run like sewing machines and are tack drivers and to be honest I have beat the snot out of them, torture tested them and they keep coming back for more.
Yes.
I have experienced this while training and running particular drills involving picking a handgun up off of the ground. In fact, the XD's got so dirty that the grip safeties were locking up.
Drawing a pistol with a half assed grip is ludicrous?
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=183030
You think this guy had a picture perfect, super smooth presentation?
Get over your emotional investment and realize that there ARE downsides to everything. I am happy that you've run a whopping 10k rounds through three guns and that they are absolute tackdrivers but that still does not negate the point that i made which happens to be a very real, indisputable point. Whether or not it will happen is up in the air like i very much said in my post but if i can avoid the possibility altogether, i will.
So, having said that...what exactly do you DO with your pistols? Are they duty weapons?
Again, my point still stands. The XDS has corrected this issue and i am excited by that.
Crow Hunter
06-25-13, 12:15
Yes.
I have experienced this while training and running particular drills involving picking a handgun up off of the ground. In fact, the XD's got so dirty that the grip safeties were locking up.
It was right after that drill that I saw them switch the lady at my 2008 class to a G19. It wasn't helping matters that the instructors would occasionally step on them and drive them into the mud.
:D
This is what a SME on the forum had to say a short while ago...
I see a lot of students fire a lot of rounds and I have seen more XDs than M&Ps in the last year. I have not had a SINGLE guy have a SINGLE problem with an XD. Infer what you will by my lack of the same statement for the M&P. I don't like shooting the XD much myself but I'll definitely take that experience over a bunch of "no agencies field them" posts on the Internet. I don't want a grip safety. I don't care for the bore axis personally. I like the way the new fancy Rob Leatham XD 5.whatever shoots a lot thought, and know a lot of guys who shoot the crap out of them (20+K annually) and love them.*
This is what a SME on the forum had to say a short while ago...
Whole thread for context of the quote: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=116773
That said, we have two concrete examples here where the XDs DID malfunction and were unable to quickly return to a usable state, which trumps any lack of evidence cited by an SME or any other member (no disrespect meant to any party). Just because problems aren't seen doesn't mean the design doesn't have a flaw or unnecessary failure point, which is the entire point of the last several posts.
Posters keep coming here, with emotional or vested interest in their XDs, posting "But mine has never failed!" That's not the point - the point is that, given enough time, it will likely fail and do so without warning. This is not the same as a firing pin breaking or springs wearing out - those have MTBS/F service intervals and failure can be prevented and potentially avoided by regularly scheduled maintenance. The XD's design shortcomings cannot be addressed by inspection or preventative maintenance. It is a very real design flaw.
For a range gun, that's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff; however, this forum is not oriented for casual and leisure shooters - there are other forums that share that viewpoint. The primary focus here is reliability, which the XD grip safety decreases. Luckily, the XDS removes that aspect and may turn out to be a solid option. Only time will tell.
G34Shooter
06-25-13, 14:06
Can we keep the topic on the single stack XD-S models please?
Not the XD, XD's, XDm etc...
:suicide2:
Agreed. If they would just dump the damn grip safety they would have a contender.
Noooo doubt! I sold my XDs45 used for the same price as purchased new after all this mess back in December. :D I picked up the SW/MP shield 9mm and I've yet to regret it. The XDs45 was a little rough on the hands while firing. Too much recoil from a small pistopl for me.
Whole thread for context of the quote: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=116773
That said, we have two concrete examples here where the XDs DID malfunction and were unable to quickly return to a usable state, which trumps any lack of evidence cited by an SME or any other member (no disrespect meant to any party). Just because problems aren't seen doesn't mean the design doesn't have a flaw or unnecessary failure point, which is the entire point of the last several posts.
Posters keep coming here, with emotional or vested interest in their XDs, posting "But mine has never failed!" That's not the point - the point is that, given enough time, it will likely fail and do so without warning. This is not the same as a firing pin breaking or springs wearing out - those have MTBS/F service intervals and failure can be prevented and potentially avoided by regularly scheduled maintenance. The XD's design shortcomings cannot be addressed by inspection or preventative maintenance. It is a very real design flaw.
For a range gun, that's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff; however, this forum is not oriented for casual and leisure shooters - there are other forums that share that viewpoint. The primary focus here is reliability, which the XD grip safety decreases. Luckily, the XDS removes that aspect and may turn out to be a solid option. Only time will tell.
We have two examples? So what? I have probably seen two examples of every service pistol manufacturer fail to the point of having to be sent back to the factory. I have no interest in XD's, and wouldn't choose to carry one because of the grip safety, but I wouldn't choose to carry one of this boards favorite plastic wonders either because of the problems.
I forgot that this board is for the "serious gunfighters", so I'll just step back into my lane now.:rolleyes:
STONE-YARDER
06-25-13, 17:38
This is M4C, not arfcom. Maybe you should realize that unforeseen,
uncontrollable things happen in the real world, up to and including a poor grip in a shooting situation.
The guns, bluntly, do not have a track record of running like sewing machines. A few individual guns might, most do not. Further, no one gives a crap if they are tack drivers or not. The focus of this forum is on reliable, real world performance when it matters most, something the XD series has not yet proven. It doesn't matter why, how, or what may or might be - all that matters are the facts of firearm construction, endurance, and performance. Glock, S&W, and HK all make models that have been vetted by countless LE departments and militaries - none of them utilize grip safeties that might compromise a users ability to fire or clear a weapon. That is called a clue.
Run your XDM for 10k rounds without cleaning or lubrication and document every malfunction and stoppage and post the results here, then you might have some credibility to stand on. Until you and others can manage to post something that can provide hard, conclusive evidence that the XD series has managed to turn itself around and perform like the polymer pistols from other manufacturers have been performing for the last few decades, your posts will carry little weight and come across like fanboy praise, nothing more.
No, you don't give a crap if a pistol is a tack driver. I would drop the appeal to the fictitious majority from your repertoire. Yeah those glock gen4's don't have any issues right? Give me a break. If you like what others like because they like it, well its your life do as you please. Don't take my word for it, do some research. You seem to live a life of contempt prior to investigation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M36x4qh7tsc
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/184369-xd-torture-test.html
I am a 1911 shooter. The grip safeties are not equal.
C4
Might as well throw my 2 cents in. I've been and still am a big 1911 guy and never considered the grip safety an issue.
That was until I shot a 3 gun match and in my haste my grip was not optimal and I ate up a few seconds getting my head and weapon back in the game. First time I had a grip safety issue.
I've continually included this issue in my training agenda and its amazing how consistently I csn induce this human error under stress.
Time to rethink what to carry...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
We have two examples? So what? I have probably seen two examples of every service pistol manufacturer fail to the point of having to be sent back to the factory. I have no interest in XD's, and wouldn't choose to carry one because of the grip safety, but I wouldn't choose to carry one of this boards favorite plastic wonders either because of the problems.
You specifically quoted someone as evidence that XDs did not display many issues, yet two people with first hand experience immediately post examples where XD's locked up due to poor design. Does that make it a statistically significant sample? Nope, but by that same token, neither does quoting one person's experience (especially when it's a generic observation).
I forgot that this board is for the "serious gunfighters", so I'll just step back into my lane now.:rolleyes:
M4C Style Guide (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019)
Perspective is an important component to understanding what M4C is all about, and our perspective on firearms as working tools can be especially instructive. We all appreciate a particularly well-executed carbine, the best new developments, and the finest accessories and gear.
This forum predominantly approaches firearms as working tools - not target guns, not range toys - working, reliable, combat weapons that have proven themselves as such.
Thanks.
No, you don't give a crap if a pistol is a tack driver. I would drop the appeal to the fictitious majority from your repertoire. Yeah those glock gen4's don't have any issues right? Give me a break. If you like what others like because they like it, well its your life do as you please. Don't take my word for it, do some research. You seem to live a life of contempt prior to investigation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M36x4qh7tsc
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/184369-xd-torture-test.html
I actually did plenty of investigation - the first pistol that I ever considered buying was an XD in 9mm. The only reason I didn't get it was because the LGS I was at had a used, German-manufactured Sig 226. I didn't know much at the time, other than Sigs were "good guns," and so I purchased the Sig.
Fast forward a good number of years and I now run HK USP compacts, a minority from what most others run here, even the HK users.
Yes, all gun parts can fail, but they fail due to wear and tear which all firearms endure. With a Glock, S&W, and even HK's, they are produced specifically with tolerances that minimize the effect of foreign debris and such if it enters the gun - the XD does not. In fact, it's design not only fails to address this, but adds an extra failure point that decreases its reliability in this area.
And no, most here are not preoccupied with how accurate a gun is (a tack-driver, as you call it), they care about how reliable a weapon is as fighting and self-defense tool (as do I). I want the most reliable firearm I can get, with accuracy as an afterthought. If something comes along better than what I'm running, I'll pick it up and dump what I have - I have no attachment to any brand.
Anyone can build themselves an accurate firearm with enough money - it's not hard, it's simply expensive (and sometimes not even that). The hard part is making an accurate gun that does not sacrifice reliability to achieve that accuracy.
M4C Style Guide (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019)
Perspective is an important component to understanding what M4C is all about, and our perspective on firearms as working tools can be especially instructive. We all appreciate a particularly well-executed carbine, the best new developments, and the finest accessories and gear.
This forum predominantly approaches firearms as working tools - not target guns, not range toys - working, reliable, combat weapons that have proven themselves as such.
Thanks.
OK. Do you carry a gun for work? Do you take your weapon into combat? Do shoot anything other than paper or steel at the range?
"Combat weapons that have proven themselves as such." Can you point me to a thread or discussion where an M&P has seen combat, or has been adopted by a .mil unit or gun centric organization?
Thanks
You specifically quoted someone as evidence that XDs did not display many issues, yet two people with first hand experience immediately post examples where XD's locked up due to poor design. Does that make it a statistically significant sample? Nope, but by that same token, neither does quoting one person's experience (especially when it's a generic observation.
Well, considering where that SME works now, he probably sees more guns being used in one year than everyone in this thread put together.
OK. Do you carry a gun for work? Do you take your weapon into combat? Do shoot anything other than paper or steel at the range?
"Combat weapons that have proven themselves as such." Can you point me to a thread or discussion where an M&P has seen combat, or has been adopted by a .mil unit or gun centric organization?
Thanks
In his defense there are alot of LE agencies using M&P's in defensive capacities.
OK. Do you carry a gun for work? Do you take your weapon into combat? Do shoot anything other than paper or steel at the range?
Your question is disingenuous, as it does not change the orientation of this forum or the purpose it exists to fulfill. It doesn't matter if I carry or not, as this forum's purpose is to evaluate and discuss firearms from the position of those that do. A strawman argument, in educated circles.
That said, I was required to carry as part of my past duties and will probably have to do so again in the near future. As mentioned above, this has no bearing on the discussion or tone of this forum.
"Combat weapons that have proven themselves as such." Can you point me to a thread or discussion where an M&P has seen combat, or has been adopted by a .mil unit or gun centric organization?
The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), which routinely puts its agents in situations requiring lethal force; 270+ US police departments; Australian police; Belgian police; Iraqi Military and Police - that's just from S&W's info.
The XD has... a few police departments, none of which field them in large numbers.
Your question is disingenuous, as it does not change the orientation of this forum or the purpose it exists to fulfill. It doesn't matter if I carry or not, as this forum's purpose is to evaluate and discuss firearms from the position of those that do. A strawman argument, in educated circles.
That said, I was required to carry as part of my past duties and will probably have to do so again in the near future. As mentioned above, this has no bearing on the discussion or tone of this forum.
Thought so. Thanks.
The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), which routinely puts its agents in situations requiring lethal force; 270+ US police departments; Australian police; Belgian police; Iraqi Military and Police - that's just from S&W's info.
Like I said, gun centric organizations. DEA isn't one of them. The ATF and DEA guys that I am friends with do not carry M&P's. SIGs and Glocks are what they carry. The guy (ATF) I ride with just got issued a Glock 22 & 27. Honestly, 99.9% of FEDs don't care what they are issued.
As they say "stuff happens."
What I cannot understand is why? Why do people buy this gun. If these pistols were say, cheaper than a Glock, M&P, PPQ, etc, I would consider it, but they aren't. In the case of the XDS 9, it is a full $100 dollars over a shield. Not sure how anyone can pay that.
While I don't think the XD line of pistols suck, they would be my last choice behind, HK, Walther, Glock, & S&W.
C4
I don't really get it either. Back when they were HS2000s and you could get one for <$300 I could see the appeal in that price range. To each his own I guess.
I don't really get it either. Back when they were HS2000s and you could get one for <$300 I could see the appeal in that price range. To each his own I guess.
At $300, I can see that. Not at their current pricing.
C4
D.O.A.F.S.
06-26-13, 18:51
I mean no disrespect to anyone but have to chuckle at some of the posts, it's like arguing with a retard, you lose either way . I have a friend that I shoot with on a regular basis that has probably 6 XD's of various models and calibers. We have taken numerous classes together, practice, and shoot local matches. He has never had a "single" problem with any of his and loves them, today he brought along his new XDs9. I shot his XDs45 a couple weeks ago and today the 9, impressed with both, they were very accurate. With that said I am not a fan of the high bore axis or the grip safety, I'll stick with my M&P's including my Shield. At the end of the day it's your money and your life , drive on.
STONE-YARDER
06-26-13, 20:59
I mean no disrespect to anyone but have to chuckle at some of the posts, it's like arguing with a retard, you lose either way . I have a friend that I shoot with on a regular basis that has probably 6 XD's of various models and calibers. We have taken numerous classes together, practice, and shoot local matches. He has never had a "single" problem with any of his and loves them, today he brought along his new XDs9. I shot his XDs45 a couple weeks ago and today the 9, impressed with both, they were very accurate. With that said I am not a fan of the high bore axis or the grip safety, I'll stick with my M&P's including my Shield. At the end of the day it's your money and your life , drive on.
Exactly. If something doesn't work for someone that's great, just say you don't like it and move on. Its the folks who trash things and have never or hardly even used a product that blather on and on about how bad something is with pathetic arguments and nonsensical facts that don't deserve respect. I really don't like the M&P pistols but some folks do and that's great, I hear they are a fine product. This post isn't directed at anybody specifically just forums in general.
the small, single stack 9mms appeal to me for an IWB carry gun, specifically AIWB. however, I have an aversion to sticking anything with a trigger break less than the last turn of the key on a sardine can, and no safety, into my pants...
I have a Shield and like it because of its administrative safety (safety on, holster, safety off) but currently it only sees duty as a BUG because I'm left handed. I'm looking for an alternative as a primary for the left side. while those who complain of the grip safety have a point (get a grip sleeve and be done with it), if it is reliable, it would be a positive in my book.
how is the grip safety on this gun different than the larger models?
G34Shooter
06-27-13, 12:35
the small, single stack 9mms appeal to me for an IWB carry gun, specifically AIWB. however, I have an aversion to sticking anything with a trigger break less than the last turn of the key on a sardine can, and no safety, into my pants...
I have a Shield and like it because of its administrative safety (safety on, holster, safety off) but currently it only sees duty as a BUG because I'm left handed. I'm looking for an alternative as a primary. while those who complain of the grip safety have a point (get a grip sleeve and be done with it), if it is reliable, it would be a positive in my book.
how is the grip safety on this gun different than the larger models?
It doesn't lock the slide when it is not pushed in.
It doesn't lock the slide when it is not pushed in.
well that would be a plus. that is a beef I have with the other models...
themighty9mm
07-09-13, 00:02
I just bought one of these today. I really cant see the grip safety on the xd s to be any sort of problem. It would be nearly impossible to grip the gun in any sort of functional defensive way and not press the grip safety. This may be an issue on its bigger brothers, I don't know. but just from messing around with it in my living room I just do not see it as any sort of rational possibility. The grip is so small and the thumb safety has so little distance it needs to move one would have to try to not activate it. And if that is the case, getting a shot off that has any sort of meaning just wont happen.
I shot an XD9 Tactical in USPSA for a number of years and during practice and competition never had an issue with grip affecting my ability to fire when needed.
I don't think the grip safety is that big of a concern. Just my personal opinion.
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