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Crow Hunter
06-09-13, 10:27
If you couldn't have any Semi-auto rifles and you had to make the choice between bolt action, lever action or pump action.

Which action type would choose and why?

Please feel free to expound on your reasons and even brand type.

No specific usage in mind, a mix of everything that you would use your semi-auto rifles today.

T2C
06-09-13, 10:32
Bolt action.

1) They are generally more accurate than lever action and slide action rifles.

2) The bolt action trigger is easier for me to manipulate than on a lever action rifle.

3) Some bolt action rifles have detachable magazines, which is convenient for quick reloads.

4) Some bolt action rifles can be reloaded with stripper clips, which is convenient for quick reloads.

5) With a bolt action rifle, I can use a wider variety of projectiles when reloading.

6) A bolt action rifle has a less complicated design than a slide action or lever action rifle, which makes it easier for me to clean and perform minor repairs.

Crow Hunter
06-09-13, 12:49
Bolt action.

1) They are generally more accurate than lever action and slide action rifles.

2) The bolt action trigger is easier for me to manipulate than on a lever action rifle.

3) Some bolt action rifles have detachable magazines, which is convenient for quick reloads.

4) Some bolt action rifles can be reloaded with stripper clips, which is convenient for quick reloads.

5) With a bolt action rifle, I can use a wider variety of projectiles when reloading.

6) A bolt action rifle has a less complicated design than a slide action or lever action rifle, which makes it easier for me to clean and perform minor repairs.

That was pretty much my thoughts as well, but I wanted to see others opinions.

MountainRaven
06-09-13, 14:05
Bolt action.

1) They are generally more accurate than lever action and slide action rifles.

2) The bolt action trigger is easier for me to manipulate than on a lever action rifle.

3) Some bolt action rifles have detachable magazines, which is convenient for quick reloads.

4) Some bolt action rifles can be reloaded with stripper clips, which is convenient for quick reloads.

5) With a bolt action rifle, I can use a wider variety of projectiles when reloading.

6) A bolt action rifle has a less complicated design than a slide action or lever action rifle, which makes it easier for me to clean and perform minor repairs.

This.

In addition, bolt action rifles tend to be stronger, allowing one to safely use higher pressure ammunition. Most lever guns tend to be tube-fed, which further limits you, due to the necessity of projectile shape.

And on top of all of these, I feel I can run a bolt gun at very close to the same speed as a pump and either faster than a lever. (No timers, just gut feeling.)

That being said... the Winchester 1895 will always have a place in my heart. I'm not certain I would rather use the '95 than an old bolt-action battle rifle, though.

Failure2Stop
06-09-13, 14:29
While I agree that a bolt action "scout" type rifle would fill a pretty wide array of uses, for close-range, multiple target, multiple shot type use, I would be drawn to a lever gun.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

Gutshot John
06-09-13, 14:41
Just one?

Lever 30-30 (projectile shape irrelevant).

Faster close in. Don't have to break posture, can load one round at a time quickly. Accurate enough at distance. Ammo is everywhere.

30-06 in Bolt would be a close second.

Either works.

Crow Hunter
06-09-13, 15:15
Just one?

Lever 30-30 (projectile shape irrelevant).

Faster close in. Don't have to break posture, can load one round at a time quickly. Accurate enough at distance. Ammo is everywhere.

30-06 in Bolt would be a close second.

Either works.

Not just one rifle, but one action type to keep commonality manipulations.

I was thinking a full battery of Rimfire, varmint, hunting/defense rifles.

Kind of like I have my ARs set up today. Just a "what if" scenario and how others would do it.

I own a Marlin 30AS (336) and a Marlin 39a. I don't currently own any bolt action centerfires. I own a Marlin 881 bolt though. I have owned the 30-30 since 1998 or so and I would be surprised if it has more than a couple of boxes through it. The 39a has more through it but nowhere near as much as I have through the 881.

ST911
06-09-13, 17:06
While I agree that a bolt action "scout" type rifle would fill a pretty wide array of uses, for close-range, multiple target, multiple shot type use, I would be drawn to a lever gun.

Tell me more about that...

Gutshot John
06-10-13, 09:55
Not just one rifle, but one action type to keep commonality manipulations.


Well that's an interesting question, but I guess my feeling is that commonality of manipulations is a bit of an overstated concern.

I shoot ARs primarily, but I've never tried to manipulate a bolt-gun like I would an AR and vice-versa.

Obviously I can run an AR more competently in a firefight situation than a bolt/lever gun, but that's simply a function of time/training. I don't think I would be hampered switching between actions so long as I trained/practiced on both. My view is that committing to one type of action is unnecessary short of legal restrictions.

That said, having a rimfire equivalent of whatever gun you shoot is an excellent idea.

Failure2Stop
06-11-13, 11:08
Tell me more about that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BwUJ4--Qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtmbTh7J_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsQ9eDO3TE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bJ3TLEbZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3dTX3aF7o

KevinB
06-11-13, 15:35
Damn that's some slick stuff.

marZ1
06-11-13, 15:46
Damn that's some slick stuff.

+1 :eek:

currahee
06-11-13, 15:47
My primary utility rifle would be a lever, probably in .38/.357. There is a reason the Winchester rifles were such a common thing in the "old west."

The learning curve is steeper than with a modern military rifle... but there are plenty of folks that can outshoot most AK or AR with one under 100 yards.

T2C
06-11-13, 17:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BwUJ4--Qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtmbTh7J_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsQ9eDO3TE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bJ3TLEbZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3dTX3aF7o

That is slick and a good reason to dig the lever action out of the back of the gun safe.

Crow Hunter
06-11-13, 17:46
I don't think I could do that with my old Marlin 30AS, maybe the 39a.:D

I think for purely defensive, that the lever would be preferable.

For just general use that might be called on for defense, I still think I would personally lean bolt action.

I don't know why but for some reason I just don't "click" with lever actions.

Failure2Stop
06-11-13, 18:26
I don't know why but for some reason I just don't "click" with lever actions.

I've wanted a lever 30-30 since I was a kid, just never got one.
Probably a big reason that I am attracted to them.
I keep bouncing back and forth on 30-30 and 45-70, and then I get all tangled up with .308 Marlin Express, .338 Marlin Express, .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, pistol calibers (though to a much more limited extent), etc, and don't carry-through.

Coal Dragger
06-11-13, 21:31
For me I would also have to give the nod to the bolt action as well. Too many advantages for the kinds of shooting that I like to do, and the uses I would likely have.

Lacos
06-11-13, 21:42
For me it's pump. I find it's steadiest and faster on my shoulder while working the action. Pump rifles, Rem 7600 .308 & Timberwolf .44 magnum. Levers, Marlin .375 & 45/70.

T2C
06-12-13, 05:58
I've wanted a lever 30-30 since I was a kid, just never got one.
Probably a big reason that I am attracted to them.
I keep bouncing back and forth on 30-30 and 45-70, and then I get all tangled up with .308 Marlin Express, .338 Marlin Express, .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, pistol calibers (though to a much more limited extent), etc, and don't carry-through.

The 45-70 has a lot of potential for defense, killing bears, elephants, etc. We were testing duty ammunition one day and had a few gelatin blocks left over after we finished. We had been setting gelatin blocks on top of a sturdy table for testing. I had a Remington Rolling Block 45-70 rifle with me and we shot some Remington 300g factory hunting loads into gelatin.

The gelatin blocks jumped 4 feet into the air and landed 6 feet to the right of the table when shot with the 300g soft point. The projectiles penetrated all of the way through 3 feet of gelatin and left a huge cavity inside. The shock wave broke wood off the bottom of our table that was constructed out of 2"x6" lumber. There was a lot of laughing after we saw the damage done to the table.

45-70 might be expensive, but I don't think follow up shots would be necessary.

Failure2Stop
06-12-13, 06:56
The 45-70 has a lot of potential for defense, killing bears, elephants, etc. We were testing duty ammunition one day and had a few gelatin blocks left over after we finished. We had been setting gelatin blocks on top of a sturdy table for testing. I had a Remington Rolling Block 45-70 rifle with me and we shot some Remington 300g factory hunting loads into gelatin.

The gelatin blocks jumped 4 feet into the air and landed 6 feet to the right of the table when shot with the 300g soft point. The projectiles penetrated all of the way through 3 feet of gelatin and left a huge cavity inside. The shock wave broke wood off the bottom of our table that was constructed out of 2"x6" lumber. There was a lot of laughing after we saw the damage done to the table.

45-70 might be expensive, but I don't think follow up shots would be necessary.

Dude, you just spoke to my heart there...
:cray:

Tzed250
06-12-13, 07:05
I'm thinking Blaser R93 straight pull...

Gutshot John
06-12-13, 10:49
I'm thinking Blaser R93 straight pull...

I was actually thinking of straight pulls. They're great fun and quick. Blaser's sadly are way too pricey, and in general straight pulls are too rare to make it a viable choice, but I realllly like them.

I've always had a yen to try and take a K31, and turn it into a handy rifle.

Crow Hunter
06-12-13, 14:52
Don't they have straight pull modified AR-15s in some parts of the world?

Basically an AR without a gas-tube and maybe a strengthend charging handle?

Did I imagine that?

Move the charging to the left side on the bolt so you wouldn't have bop yourself in the nose after every shot and that wouldn't be too bad. Still get the easy to work on, quick change uppers, ergonomic stock/controls, easy optics mounting, etc.

(If you couldn't own it in semi-automatic form that is.)

I would probably still go traditional turn-bolt action due to lighter weight if I couldn't have the self-loading capability.

LHS
06-12-13, 18:27
I wonder if anyone could make higher capacity mags for the Browning BLR? Then you could get the action strength and bullet shape benefits of the bolt gun with the cycling speed of the lever gun, and reload easier than either.

Gutshot John
06-16-13, 13:42
I would probably still go traditional turn-bolt action due to lighter weight if I couldn't have the self-loading capability.

I'd bet that the weight difference is minimal or favors a gas-tube-less AR.

Likewise it offers another advantage...


I wonder if anyone could make higher capacity mags for the Browning BLR? Then you could get the action strength and bullet shape benefits of the bolt gun with the cycling speed of the lever gun, and reload easier than either.

While not specifically a BLR, I looked into this with a gunsmith for a bolt-gun. It is HUGELY complicated to modify bolt guns designed to feed from single stack/central magazine, to accept double-stack/offset magazine.

One company has tried it (Robar), a bolt gun that accepted M-14 magazines, and they gave up on the concept after a year or two.

An AR sans gas tube, could indeed accept double-stack magazines reliably, and might work...mmm perhaps a pump forend?

Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 01:06
I'm thinking Blaser R93 straight pull...

Given enough fund$ I would totally go for one of these for most of my shooting and hunting needs with a long gun. The only downside is that I don't think they offer any rimfire conversion barrels or bolts. If they ever do, I'll save up the money and buy a basic R8 or R93 because they are slicker than shit. I love rimfires so Blaser not offering one means I probably wouldn't buy one.

Only downside for the tact-cool crowd is that magazine capacity is limited on the regular non tactical rifle, and there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do about it.

Crow Hunter
06-17-13, 11:47
I'd bet that the weight difference is minimal or favors a gas-tube-less AR.

Likewise it offers another advantage...



While not specifically a BLR, I looked into this with a gunsmith for a bolt-gun. It is HUGELY complicated to modify bolt guns designed to feed from single stack/central magazine, to accept double-stack/offset magazine.

One company has tried it (Robar), a bolt gun that accepted M-14 magazines, and they gave up on the concept after a year or two.

An AR sans gas tube, could indeed accept double-stack magazines reliably, and might work...mmm perhaps a pump forend?

I think DPMS did the Pump AR back in the ban days.

It had all the cool banned features but pump action. I just remember seeing the advertisment with a flash suppressor and a bayonet lug thinking wondering how they were selling that.

I never saw one in person, just ads for them.

KevinB
06-17-13, 15:16
AR without gas tube is not going to be as quick as a bolt gun or a lever gun.

Its more like dry humping a cousin or something -- just wrong and not satisfying.

glocktogo
06-17-13, 16:13
My rifle needs these days revolve primarily around defense and patrol. for that reason alone, pump action FTW. Why? This:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/images/2009-5/200952010461-rem7615_ms.jpg

tpd223
06-17-13, 16:30
A modernized SMLE would be nice.


The fast-operating Lee bolt-action and large magazine capacity enabled a well-trained rifleman to perform the "mad minute" firing 20 to 30 aimed rounds in 60 seconds, making the Lee-Enfield the fastest military bolt-action rifle of the day. The current world record for aimed bolt-action fire was set in 1914 by a musketry instructor in the British Army—Sergeant Instructor Snoxall—who placed 38 rounds into a 12-inch-wide (300 mm) target at 300 yards (270 m) in one minute.[10] Some straight-pull bolt-action rifles were thought faster, but lacked the simplicity, reliability, and generous magazine capacity of the Lee-Enfield. Several First World War accounts tell of British troops repelling German attackers who subsequently reported that they had encountered machine guns, when in fact it was simply a group of well-trained riflemen armed with SMLE Mk III rifles.[11]

Miami_JBT
06-17-13, 16:33
If I could only have one long gun it would be a Remington 870 Express Magnum with a screw in choke 18 inch rifle sight barrel and a plus two extender.

With different shells I can hunt small game orl arge game and use it in a defensive/offensive use. The shotgun is a jack of all, master of none weapon. With rifle sights, the right choke, and slugs. 100 yard shots are easy. Which in the Florida Panhandle; that's about as far as a shot as I would get except for standing in the middle of a main roadway or expressway lane.

Miami_JBT
06-17-13, 16:41
AR without gas tube is not going to be as quick as a bolt gun or a lever gun.

Its more like dry humping a cousin or something -- just wrong and not satisfying.

Not if its a straight pull style rifle with the bolt handle on the left or right side of the receiver. Would be about as fast as a Swiss K31, Steyr M95, or Blaser Series straight pull.

As for the cousin f#@king business.... I'll leave you fine imperialist yankees to that. We don't do that in Cuba or Puerto Rico. :D

Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 16:43
Last I checked we're all Yankees since about 1865...

Miami_JBT
06-17-13, 17:58
Last I checked we're all Yankees since about 1865...

Hey, as a Cuban... you're all Yankees. :D The whole Confederate/Union issue happened when Cuba was still a colony of Spain and my ancestors were still in Spain.

Coal Dragger
06-17-13, 18:57
Touche'

Then we Yankee's done went and got our jimmies all rustled up in 1898 and went on an ass-kicking territory grabbing binge.

Mac5.56
06-17-13, 19:38
Just one?

Lever 30-30 (projectile shape irrelevant).

Faster close in. Don't have to break posture, can load one round at a time quickly. Accurate enough at distance. Ammo is everywhere.


I agree with all of this accept "ammo is everywhere."

I'm not sure why but 30.30 is the hardest large caliber rifle round to find in my area right now.

steyrm9a19mmfan
06-17-13, 21:29
lever action wins hands down to me. However I am not sure that the government would let you have one of them either. After all they defined a magazine as a metallic feeding device which is capable of holding multiple rounds of ammunition and can allow the firearm which uses it to have high rate of fire. using this broad stroke definition you can ban tubular magazines before long.

Gutshot John
06-17-13, 22:16
I agree with all of this accept "ammo is everywhere."

I'm not sure why but 30.30 is the hardest large caliber rifle round to find in my area right now.

Vagaries of certain market conditions notwithstanding.

30-30/30.06 was among the last to go.

Miami_JBT
06-17-13, 23:14
Touche'

Then we Yankee's done went and got our jimmies all rustled up in 1898 and went on an ass-kicking territory grabbing binge.

Eh, kinda of. You needed two excuses for your splendid little war. Some of my ancestors in Cuba fighting a war of independence and the incompetency of a design flaw blowing up a ship in Havana harbor. But hey, I wish the Teller Amendment was never passed and Cuba was annexed by the USA. But sadly it was passed because an Asshat didn't want to take in Catholics, Blacks, folks that didn't speak English (All of Cuba), and lastly viewed Cuba's Sugar industry as direct competition with other States. If Cuba was annexed there would be no import tariff on sugar. But hey, if Cuba was annexed then Cuban sugar would have contributed greatly to the national GDP along with its cigar, alcohol, and tourist industry.

Alas.... the Cuba my family knew and loved died in January of 1959. In May of 1961 the USA became my family's homeland and I thank God to be the first generation born here. I also swear to God that I will not allow to happen here what happened in Cuba.

But enough rambling.... this is not the for such discussions. I still stick with my choice... a Shotgun instead of a Lever Action or Bolt Action rifle due to the varied tasks that it can perform.

Miami_JBT
06-17-13, 23:19
lever action wins hands down to me. However I am not sure that the government would let you have one of them either. After all they defined a magazine as a metallic feeding device which is capable of holding multiple rounds of ammunition and can allow the firearm which uses it to have high rate of fire. using this broad stroke definition you can ban tubular magazines before long.

I believe the NY SAFE Act states that along with Feinstein's failed AWB bill and other legislation passed and/or proposed in certain States have had that in the bills.

The enemies of freedom want to disarm us completely. Whether it is a lever action rifle or a single shot muzzle loading match lock musket... they will go after it, regulate it, and outlaw it because it can be used against them and their despotic actions.

titsonritz
06-18-13, 01:35
I’d have to go with a Marlin 1895 45-70 lever gun. Compact, reliable, fast handling and more juice than most will ever need.

Crow Hunter
06-18-13, 08:59
AR without gas tube is not going to be as quick as a bolt gun or a lever gun.

Its more like dry humping a cousin or something -- just wrong and not satisfying.

:lol:

Mac5.56
06-18-13, 09:39
I believe the NY SAFE Act states that along with Feinstein's failed AWB bill and other legislation passed and/or proposed in certain States have had that in the bills.


The NY law specifically exempts all manual action firearms. But there is a lot of confusion about the tube magazines on automatics. I know someone with a Marlin tube fed .22 automatic. Who knows what the law considers it.

Coal Dragger
06-18-13, 16:36
Eh, kinda of. You needed two excuses for your splendid little war. Some of my ancestors in Cuba fighting a war of independence and the incompetency of a design flaw blowing up a ship in Havana harbor. But hey, I wish the Teller Amendment was never passed and Cuba was annexed by the USA. But sadly it was passed because an Asshat didn't want to take in Catholics, Blacks, folks that didn't speak English (All of Cuba), and lastly viewed Cuba's Sugar industry as direct competition with other States. If Cuba was annexed there would be no import tariff on sugar. But hey, if Cuba was annexed then Cuban sugar would have contributed greatly to the national GDP along with its cigar, alcohol, and tourist industry.

Alas.... the Cuba my family knew and loved died in January of 1959. In May of 1961 the USA became my family's homeland and I thank God to be the first generation born here. I also swear to God that I will not allow to happen here what happened in Cuba.

But enough rambling.... this is not the for such discussions. I still stick with my choice... a Shotgun instead of a Lever Action or Bolt Action rifle due to the varied tasks that it can perform.

For your part of the country a shotgun is a pretty fair choice, where I live well not so much. Lots of open spaces. Although the original poster didn't specifically limit you to only one rifled long gun, just one action style. So you could under those rules still keep your 12 gauge, since hey, it's not even really a rifle! :D

Lost River
07-13-14, 13:49
I could make do with just 3 chamberings in centerfire bolt actions, plus a rimfire.

.223, .308 and 300 win mag.

For hunting guns, Tikka T3s on the cartridges listed above, plus 2 Sako TRGs in .308 and 300win. Those would handle all my long range shooting.

Fortunately we are not (yet) in a position in most of this nation where the above scenario is a reality.

A couple of ARs/M4s tucked away for various social purposes and in defense of our Constitution should be a top priority for many. An expensive set of golf clubs won't protect the rights and liberties so many have fought for, sacrificed their lives, and or limbs for. We need to be reminded of this on a regular basis.

Ok rant off..