View Full Version : Questions About Choosing Plates/Backers-Velocity Systems+General Questions
Have a PIG PC on order, need plates. Figured it's now or never with all the shit flinging around. Most of what I see for civi's is Velocity Systems, so while I will be specifically referring to their offerings, this can also be generalized if there's more info/better options to be had. I wish I could have jumped on SKD's recent plate deal, but alas, I missed it. Bummer. :(
Be advised, there may be a little stupid here- I'm an armor noob.
Onward;
Plate Cut- standard "traditional" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples1.html) versus "shooter" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples.html)-
>Is there a really distinct advantage to be gained with one or the other?
>Am I going to have a problem with, say, the "shooter" cut fitting in different carriers? I know I mentioned the PIG I have on the way, but as I am a smaller guy, if that does not work out my next two choices are going to be the Mayflower APC[?] or Tyr GPC.
Needless to say, I am not made of money and will be blind pissed if I have to re-buy plates, on top of having to re-buy a carrier....
>In fact will I have a problem with EITHER VS plate fitting any of the above 3 carriers (PIG,May. APC, GPC) both standalone, or ICW the soft backers?
>Confirm that the back plate should be +1 size? So if I run a "medium" up front, run a "Large" in the back? OR just two of the same size"? I can't tell from people's gear pictures, and this doesn't seem to be a well covered topic.
I've been reading armor threads all day here- this one seemed to suggest the +1 size is true: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84789...
BUT again, I am a smaller guy and may not be physically able to do this...
Referring to Velocity the plates linked above-
>Are the VS plates multi hit?
>Are both the III and IV plates standalone? Everywhere seems to say "ICW" for the III, and I'm assuming they mean Lvl 3 standalone, Lvl 4 ICW soft inserts as usual?
> Does anyone have a weight on the VS soft backers? Both Dyneema and Kevlar? I'm assuming they're pretty close to each other, but just for my OCD sake...
>IF I want to run backers for the ICW Lvl 4 rating, Kevlar or Dyneema? Did some searches here and didn't find much...
And now kind of a general question- it would seem to me that IF the "shooter" cut will not be an interchangeability issue with the carriers I've mentioned, it would be a no-brainer to go for the Lvl 4 Velocity Standalone's, as not having to buy soft armor (IF I wanted to adjust to L4) would save money, size, and weight.
I am aware of the rating for level 4 plates (ie, 1 round 30.06 AP, whoopdefreakin'doo...:p)- it just like I said- save money/weight/size/ now and not worry - about 'thislevel/thatlevel' shit again ever, vs possibly (a very slim possibly, I'll admit) down the road saying "I want L4 protection", and having to slap down more money and add weight/size.
Is this a correct line of thinking?
I think that's about it for now...
Have a PIG PC on order, need plates. Figured it's now or never with all the shit flinging around. Most of what I see for civi's is Velocity Systems, so while I will be specifically referring to their offerings, this can also be generalized if there's more info/better options to be had. I wish I could have jumped on SKD's recent plate deal, but alas, I missed it. Bummer. :(
Be advised, there may be a little stupid here- I'm an armor noob.
Onward;
Plate Cut- standard "traditional" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples1.html) versus "shooter" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples.html)-
>Is there a really distinct advantage to be gained with one or the other?
>Am I going to have a problem with, say, the "shooter" cut fitting in different carriers? I know I mentioned the PIG I have on the way, but as I am a smaller guy, if that does not work out my next two choices are going to be the Mayflower APC[?] or Tyr GPC.
Needless to say, I am not made of money and will be blind pissed if I have to re-buy plates, on top of having to re-buy a carrier....
>In fact will I have a problem with EITHER VS plate fitting any of the above 3 carriers (PIG,May. APC, GPC) both standalone, or ICW the soft backers?
>Confirm that the back plate should be +1 size? So if I run a "medium" up front, run a "Large" in the back? OR just two of the same size"? I can't tell from people's gear pictures, and this doesn't seem to be a well covered topic.
I've been reading armor threads all day here- this one seemed to suggest the +1 size is true: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84789...
BUT again, I am a smaller guy and may not be physically able to do this...
Referring to Velocity the plates linked above-
>Are the VS plates multi hit?
>Are both the III and IV plates standalone? Everywhere seems to say "ICW" for the III, and I'm assuming they mean Lvl 3 standalone, Lvl 4 ICW soft inserts as usual?
> Does anyone have a weight on the VS soft backers? Both Dyneema and Kevlar? I'm assuming they're pretty close to each other, but just for my OCD sake...
>IF I want to run backers for the ICW Lvl 4 rating, Kevlar or Dyneema? Did some searches here and didn't find much...
And now kind of a general question- it would seem to me that IF the "shooter" cut will not be an interchangeability issue with the carriers I've mentioned, it would be a no-brainer to go for the Lvl 4 Velocity Standalone's, as not having to buy soft armor (IF I wanted to adjust to L4) would save money, size, and weight.
I am aware of the rating for level 4 plates (ie, 1 round 30.06 AP, whoopdefreakin'doo...:p)- it just like I said- save money/weight/size/ now and not worry - about 'thislevel/thatlevel' shit again ever, vs possibly (a very slim possibly, I'll admit) down the road saying "I want L4 protection", and having to slap down more money and add weight/size.
Is this a correct line of thinking?
I think that's about it for now...
The composition of the soft backers is mostly irrelevant. Kevlar will thicker but softer, dynemma will be thinner and lighter, but stiffer.
As a plate backer, it won't be subject to muzzle contact shots or anything, so their different failure modes/ strengths is all but a moot point.
A ICW IV or SA IV all tend to be very heavy. There are level IV stand alone plates for cheaper than the above plates+backers, but they'll be heavier, etc.
Hard armor is tough in that lightweight plates cost a LOT of money... and most civi's don't wear hard armor except for a day or two/ year at a class. That said, heavy armor sucks to wear...
is your recommendation to go with plates that require backers?
i had assumed that the kevlar + plate combination would always be heavier, but admittedly never looked into the combined weights.
Jellybean,
I was going to answer your question in the other armor thread about ceramic plate durability, but saw this one. Short answer is, under normal use (ie. diving prone) you need not worry about cracking your plates. If you drive your car over them, then yes, worry. :D
Also, see my answers in bold below....
Have a PIG PC on order, need plates. Figured it's now or never with all the shit flinging around. Most of what I see for civi's is Velocity Systems, so while I will be specifically referring to their offerings, this can also be generalized if there's more info/better options to be had. I wish I could have jumped on SKD's recent plate deal, but alas, I missed it. Bummer. :(
Be advised, there may be a little stupid here- I'm an armor noob.
Onward;
Plate Cut- standard "traditional" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples1.html) versus "shooter" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples.html)-
I've got the plates in the first link. I searched just about every plate on the market and found that these were the best balance between price, weight, thickness, and protection level. Just my opinion.
>Is there a really distinct advantage to be gained with one or the other?
No, but those are two different plates with two different proteciton levels. The cut is user preference and depending on the width of your chest, one may suit you better than the other. I wear ~44 suit jacket for example, and the "traditional" plate cut fit me great. No loss in mobility or range of motion, and stock placement with a carbine is workable.
>Am I going to have a problem with, say, the "shooter" cut fitting in different carriers? I know I mentioned the PIG I have on the way, but as I am a smaller guy, if that does not work out my next two choices are going to be the Mayflower APC[?] or Tyr GPC.
Needless to say, I am not made of money and will be blind pissed if I have to re-buy plates, on top of having to re-buy a carrier....
You shouldn't have a problem with either of those fitting in a PIG PC since, IIRC, the PIG plate pockets are a bit oversized and lined with velcro on the edges (to keep the plate from swimming around).
>In fact will I have a problem with EITHER VS plate fitting any of the above 3 carriers (PIG,May. APC, GPC) both standalone, or ICW the soft backers?
No. See Above. My plates w/ SA fit in my S/M APC snug. Can't speak to the GPC
>Confirm that the back plate should be +1 size? So if I run a "medium" up front, run a "Large" in the back? OR just two of the same size"? I can't tell from people's gear pictures, and this doesn't seem to be a well covered topic.
I've been reading armor threads all day here- this one seemed to suggest the +1 size is true: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84789...
BUT again, I am a smaller guy and may not be physically able to do this...
I have same size front/back and to be honest I would plus up the back if I had to do it over again. However, with the smaller plate, I'm saving weight and honestly won't be losing any sleep over the slightly smaller coverage area. I'm also not sure if I would be able to do that with the plate pocket size of the APC...unless I got the large plate pocket for the rear. It would likely work with the PIG.
Referring to Velocity the plates linked above-
>Are the VS plates multi hit?
Yes. Per the nice folks at VS. The guy told me he shot it 6 times in roughly the same area with M193 (IIRC) and there wasn't even BFD
>Are both the III and IV plates standalone? Everywhere seems to say "ICW" for the III, and I'm assuming they mean Lvl 3 standalone, Lvl 4 ICW soft inserts as usual?
They are, but without the backers, the "ICW" plates will only be rated to Lvl III. With backers, you get the Lvl IV rating. The "SA" plates will be Lvl IV by themselves.
> Does anyone have a weight on the VS soft backers? Both Dyneema and Kevlar? I'm assuming they're pretty close to each other, but just for my OCD sake...
I don't, but if you need it, I can weigh one of my backers. I don't think that they're too heavy. As a package (Plates + soft armor) they probably weigh about the same as the SA plates
>IF I want to run backers for the ICW Lvl 4 rating, Kevlar or Dyneema? Did some searches here and didn't find much...
Don't think it matters. Jim's post covered it. I went with Kevlar just in case I did run the PC without plates...have yet to do that...but it was a tad cheaper
And now kind of a general question- it would seem to me that IF the "shooter" cut will not be an interchangeability issue with the carriers I've mentioned, it would be a no-brainer to go for the Lvl 4 Velocity Standalone's, as not having to buy soft armor (IF I wanted to adjust to L4) would save money, size, and weight.
I am aware of the rating for level 4 plates (ie, 1 round 30.06 AP, whoopdefreakin'doo...:p)- it just like I said- save money/weight/size/ now and not worry - about 'thislevel/thatlevel' shit again ever, vs possibly (a very slim possibly, I'll admit) down the road saying "I want L4 protection", and having to slap down more money and add weight/size.
Is this a correct line of thinking?
It depends on what you want and what threat level you perceive. With ICW plates, you have a little more flexibility due to the fact that you have 3 different levels of protection (IIIA, Lvl III, and Lvl IV) depending on what combination you run in the pockets. With SA, you are either Lvl IV or nothing.
I went with the ICW plates for two main reasons:
1) The APC has no padding like the PIG does, so the backers serves that purpose (marginally) as well as provide extra protection
2) I couldn't find the SA plates in stock anywhere (Also, IIRC, they were more expensive by a higher margin than they are now to the ICW plates...I could be wrong on the price difference though)
I didn't figure out the versatility aspect of it until later :p
I think that's about it for now...
is your recommendation to go with plates that require backers?
i had assumed that the kevlar + plate combination would always be heavier, but admittedly never looked into the combined weights.
I work with LE, where SA is the norm. In MIL, ICW is the norm.
SA IV's can be found for sub $200/ plate for quality stuff, so in my opinion (predicated upon most people using this stuff minimally) I think they make a lot of sense.
As noted though, the lack of a backer in a minimalist carrier creates some comfort concerns. In a well padded carrier like the 5.11 TacTec, or a Tyr GPC that has the mesh padded foam between you and the plate... I think they're a good choice. In an LMAC or something more minimalist, it could be a pain.
........As a plate backer, it won't be subject to muzzle contact shots or anything, so their different failure modes/ strengths is all but a moot point.
...
Ah -right. I remember reading about that in DocGKR's soft armor thread.
...SA IV's can be found for sub $200/ plate for quality stuff, so in my opinion (predicated upon most people using this stuff minimally) I think they make a lot of sense.
As noted though, the lack of a backer in a minimalist carrier creates some comfort concerns. In a well padded carrier like the 5.11 TacTec, or a Tyr GPC that has the mesh padded foams between you and the plate... I think they're a good choice. In an LMAC or something more minimalist, it could be a pain.
What planet are you seeing SA L4's for under $200? For GOOD stuff? :confused: the VS plates are some of the cheapest I've seen (yeah, yeah, I know- the ol' "how much is YOUR life worth" thing...:p) aside from SKD's deals which were still over $200.
The padding issue is a good point- I'm trying to get ahold of a guy here I borrrowed a carrier from a while back to test to see what he was using, so that may help make my decision easier.
Ironman- I've got some stuff to add (subtract? :D) but I'm on the way out the door so I'll cover yours when I get back.
But yes, I really would appreciate a weight on the VS backer.
Ah -right. I remember reading about that in DocGKR's soft armor thread.
What planet are you seeing SA L4's for under $200? For GOOD stuff? :confused: the VS plates are some of the cheapest I've seen (yeah, yeah, I know- the ol' "how much is YOUR life worth" thing...:p) aside from SKD's deals which were still over $200.
http://www.officerstore.com/store/product.aspx/productId/20186/Point-Blank-Level-IV-Singular-Curve-Stand-Alone-Plate/
http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCSTYL?PMSTYL=TE770
Heavy, but certified stand alone plates for pretty cheap.
Let's see if this works;
.....
Plate Cut- standard "traditional" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples1.html) versus "shooter" cut (http://www.optactical.com/vesybariples.html)-
I've got the plates in the first link. I searched just about every plate on the market and found that these were the best balance between price, weight, thickness, and protection level. Just my opinion.
>Is there a really distinct advantage to be gained with one or the other?
No, but those are two different plates with two different proteciton levels. The cut is user preference and depending on the width of your chest, one may suit you better than the other. I wear ~44 suit jacket for example, and the "traditional" plate cut fit me great. No loss in mobility or range of motion, and stock placement with a carbine is workable.
What size plates are you running- standard mediums/ 10x12?
I've never checked the size suit jakcet I wear so.....:p
Yeah, I hate dress clothes.
I'm sort of self-measuring here and for for the standard (med) size could kind of go either way...
Also- and this may just be theoretical- but looking at the way the carriers are cut, and the way the "shooter" style plates are cut, seems like the traditional style would just fit/work better.
>Am I going to have a problem with, say, the "shooter" cut fitting in different carriers? I know I mentioned the PIG I have on the way, but as I am a smaller guy, if that does not work out my next two choices are going to be the Mayflower APC[?] or Tyr GPC.
Needless to say, I am not made of money and will be blind pissed if I have to re-buy plates, on top of having to re-buy a carrier....
You shouldn't have a problem with either of those fitting in a PIG PC since, IIRC, the PIG plate pockets are a bit oversized and lined with velcro on the edges (to keep the plate from swimming around).
Yeah, the PIG I'm sure would work- it's the others I'm worried about...
>In fact will I have a problem with EITHER VS plate fitting any of the above 3 carriers (PIG,May. APC, GPC) both standalone, or ICW the soft backers?
No. See Above. My plates w/ SA fit in my S/M APC snug. Can't speak to the GPC
Good to know. I know the PIG has it's own space for the soft backers, but was curious about the others- of course I suppose if I actually used my brain, it would makes sense for it all to fit them to.:p
Yeah, GPC users seem kind of rare... not sure why.
>Confirm that the back plate should be +1 size? So if I run a "medium" up front, run a "Large" in the back? OR just two of the same size"? I can't tell from people's gear pictures, and this doesn't seem to be a well covered topic.
I've been reading armor threads all day here- this one seemed to suggest the +1 size is true: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84789...
BUT again, I am a smaller guy and may not be physically able to do this...
I have same size front/back and to be honest I would plus up the back if I had to do it over again. However, with the smaller plate, I'm saving weight and honestly won't be losing any sleep over the slightly smaller coverage area. I'm also not sure if I would be able to do that with the plate pocket size of the APC...unless I got the large plate pocket for the rear. It would likely work with the PIG.
Referring to Velocity the plates linked above-
>Are the VS plates multi hit?
Yes. Per the nice folks at VS. The guy told me he shot it 6 times in roughly the same area with M193 (IIRC) and there wasn't even BFD
Jolly.
I mean, it's not like I have some "act of valor" fantasy where I take a mag dump to the chest- just makes me feel better to know it can take a few hits.
Of course with all these "high speed" folk out there, I suppose if I get smacked at a class or something it'll be with more than one round. :p
>Are both the III and IV plates standalone? Everywhere seems to say "ICW" for the III, and I'm assuming they mean Lvl 3 standalone, Lvl 4 ICW soft inserts as usual?
They are, but without the backers, the "ICW" plates will only be rated to Lvl III. With backers, you get the Lvl IV rating. The "SA" plates will be Lvl IV by themselves.
That's what I figured.
> Does anyone have a weight on the VS soft backers? Both Dyneema and Kevlar? I'm assuming they're pretty close to each other, but just for my OCD sake...
I don't, but if you need it, I can weigh one of my backers. I don't think that they're too heavy. As a package (Plates + soft armor) they probably weigh about the same as the SA plates
Definitely interested toget a weight on the backers. would be a big help.
>IF I want to run backers for the ICW Lvl 4 rating, Kevlar or Dyneema? Did some searches here and didn't find much...
Don't think it matters. Jim's post covered it. I went with Kevlar just in case I did run the PC without plates...have yet to do that...but it was a tad cheaper
And now kind of a general question- it would seem to me that IF the "shooter" cut will not be an interchangeability issue with the carriers I've mentioned, it would be a no-brainer to go for the Lvl 4 Velocity Standalone's, as not having to buy soft armor (IF I wanted to adjust to L4) would save money, size, and weight.
I am aware of the rating for level 4 plates (ie, 1 round 30.06 AP, whoopdefreakin'doo...)- it just like I said- save money/weight/size/ now and not worry - about 'thislevel/thatlevel' shit again ever, vs possibly (a very slim possibly, I'll admit) down the road saying "I want L4 protection", and having to slap down more money and add weight/size.
Is this a correct line of thinking?
It depends on what you want and what threat level you perceive. With ICW plates, you have a little more flexibility due to the fact that you have 3 different levels of protection (IIIA, Lvl III, and Lvl IV) depending on what combination you run in the pockets. With SA, you are either Lvl IV or nothing.
That's an interesting consideration- Although I suppose I figure, if I'm going to dish out for a PC, I'm going to be using plates....
I figured on investing in a concealable soft armor vest if I ever wanted a 'soft armor only' option.
I went with the ICW plates for two main reasons:
1) The APC has no padding like the PIG does, so the backers serves that purpose (marginally) as well as provide extra protection
2) I couldn't find the SA plates in stock anywhere (Also, IIRC, they were more expensive by a higher margin than they are now to the ICW plates...I could be wrong on the price difference though)
I didn't figure out the versatility aspect of it until later
Also a good point on the padding- something that was brought to my attention after reading some training AARs elsewhere and sort of mentally shoved aside.
http://www.officerstore.com/store/product.aspx/productId/20186/Point-Blank-Level-IV-Singular-Curve-Stand-Alone-Plate/
http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCSTYL?PMSTYL=TE770
Heavy, but certified stand alone plates for pretty cheap.
Yeah kind of on par with steel plates there...
I mean, not like I consider 6.2 or 6.8 lb. VS plates to be "lightweight"...:p
Jellybean,
RE: your questions above (not sure how you quote a quote :confused:)
-The only size that that particular plate comes in (that I know of) is 9.5x11.5. I think either will work fine in either carrier. Just as an FYI, my plates don't fit all the way to the top of the plate carrier. The corners of the plate hit the plate pocket and the top of the plate has about a half inch to go before topping out in the plate pocket (not sure if it would do that without the backer, haven't tried). Not that big a deal, but the swimmer/shooter's cut plates may fit all the way to the top. The plate lifter strap on the inside of the APC keeps everything snug and secure in the plate pocket. Either way, I'm able to adjust the PC to the ride height necessary for the appropriate coverage.
-The APC doesn't have a "divider" for plate and backers. Just one plate pocket for both. It's a minimalist design compared to the PIG.
-I know you only need the backers, but I will try to get weights on the backers, plates (just to confirm listed weight), and side soft armor just for the hell of it. May have to be Fri or the weekend though. I think my whole APC setup is right about 20lbs (including 3 loaded PMAGs). Don't know what level of fitness you maintain, but I've never felt that this loadout (along with a 9-10 lb rifle and ~5lb belt setup) was too heavy. YMMV.
Yeah kind of on par with steel plates there...
I mean, not like I consider 6.2 or 6.8 lb. VS plates to be "lightweight"...:p
Maybe weight wise, but without the problems associated with steel like spalling and such.
If you can afford lighter plate, they'll certainly be more pleasant to use.
Jellybean,
RE: your questions above (not sure how you quote a quote :confused:)
-The only size that that particular plate comes in (that I know of) is 9.5x11.5. I think either will work fine in either carrier. Just as an FYI, my plates don't fit all the way to the top of the plate carrier. The corners of the plate hit the plate pocket and the top of the plate has about a half inch to go before topping out in the plate pocket (not sure if it would do that without the backer, haven't tried). Not that big a deal, but the swimmer/shooter's cut plates may fit all the way to the top. The plate lifter strap on the inside of the APC keeps everything snug and secure in the plate pocket. Either way, I'm able to adjust the PC to the ride height necessary for the appropriate coverage.
Interesting- so the VS L3 plate is acually smaller than advertised...
Well, now that adds a whole new set of complications (see below)...
-The APC doesn't have a "divider" for plate and backers. Just one plate pocket for both. It's a minimalist design compared to the PIG.
Right- I think the GPC is like that too.
I just wanted to be sure both pieces would fit- I swear I read somewhere that there's some PC's that will only fit plates, standalone.
I could be wrong though...
-I know you only need the backers, but I will try to get weights on the backers, plates (just to confirm listed weight), and side soft armor just for the hell of it. May have to be Fri or the weekend though. I think my whole APC setup is right about 20lbs (including 3 loaded PMAGs). Don't know what level of fitness you maintain, but I've never felt that this loadout (along with a 9-10 lb rifle and ~5lb belt setup) was too heavy. YMMV.
Will keep an eye out for the update.
20 lbs is doable- I will admit that the fitness level needs work(long story- health issues), but that should be fine.
Maybe weight wise, but without the problems associated with steel like spalling and such.
If you can afford lighter plate, they'll certainly be more pleasant to use.
Right-that's exactly what I meant about the steel.
I looked into the steel stuff because I was like "oooh cheap plates" but once I read into them some I was like "No." Between the weight and the spall issues, I'd rather dish out more for a ceramic/hybrid plate set.
So, I heard back from the guy I borrowed the PC from a while back- he was running small plates.... :suicide2:
I think I may have to google some plate measurements and mock up some plates to get a better idea of what will work.
Yeah I guess they just round up the numbers. I bought from SKD, and they advertise at the actual numbers, so I knew what I was getting into.
You say that you're not a big guy, so without any measurements, I would assume that these would work just fine for you. I'm fairly wide and these cover enough according to THIS THREAD (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85112) for me not to worry about it.
Appalachian
06-14-13, 17:23
JB,
The Velocity Systems 10x12 backers (9.5 x 11.7 ish) weights are approx.:
Dyneema - 13.4 oz
Kevlar - 15.7 oz
Any plate specific questions shoot me a PM
vr
Mike
JB,
The Velocity Systems 10x12 backers (9.5 x 11.7 ish) weights are approx.:
Dyneema - 13.4 oz
Kevlar - 15.7 oz
Awesome- thanks!
Plus, somebody made a point in another armor thread about soft backers helping with the blunt trauma aspect if you get hit, so I guess I'm a little more "ok" now with running backers if needed.
Any plate specific questions shoot me a PM
vr
Mike
Yes- can I borrow a couple to try real quick? :laugh:
Seriously-at this point, I'd kill for a store here in south VA/Richmond that actually had this stuff to try on- I don't have the money to keeping tryinng this stuff out blind.:(
Update- the PIG is going to be going back. As I thought, it's to big as far as the width goes. It seems my hunch was right, in that a 3-mag-across rig would fit (the one I borrowed for an hour was an LBT 6094A w/ small plates). Length is fine, just to wide. A real shame as I really liked it, as far as features go. And padding- I looooove padding. Can I get a Mini-Pig? :D
Although now I've got to try and find an actual physical size for the couple PCs that I'm interested in- as I'm seeing from pictures, the GPC's cut is exactly 6 MOLLE slots, right to the edges of the carrier.
The APC is 6 slots, and then a space on either side- which frankly looks to be almost one MOLLE strip wide each, so after trying the PIG, now I' worried that the APC won't fit either....confused:
Of course looking at pictures, the LBT looks to be about the same design upfront, so maybe not a big deal. Of course at the time I tried the 6094, it was cold and I had a fairly thick Dickies hoodie on...:rolleyes:
The Med 10x12 (or 9.5 x 11.5) Vs. Small (8X10?) plates is still a big issue. God knows where one would even find small plates, let alone backers- everything I see is Med/10x12.
Which apparently brings its own set of isssues for the carrier itself, if you can't adjust the plates in the PC to fit correctly for their size.... :facepalm:
And then the folks that say how the 10x12 plates are just fine size-wise if you hold them over your chest by themselves, it's the carrier that was to big.
So I'm like, WTF?
My head hurts. :mad:
Jellybean,
I think you're going to give yourself an ulcer if you keep this up lol. Just get an APC and be done with it :D
Got the weights for you btw:
Plates: 6lbs 1oz
Backers: 15.8 oz
Side soft armor: 6.3 oz
*I believe the carrier is only 16oz but did not weigh it so that's from whatever published specs that I *think* I remember.
So yes, the plate + backer is about the same as a stand alone lvl4 but you get the extra "padding" as well as extra blunt force protection.
In all seriousness, I can't help you as far as sizing goes for the APC unless you can get some real numbers as to how "small/big" you are. I don't consider myself a big guy but that's all subjective. You may be bigger than me. If you can get some measurements (ie. nipple to nipple and/or outside of chest muscle to the other) then I may be able to help. Only thing I can say right now is that the PIG is definitely wider than the APC. Or just do a plate mock up with paper and see how the dimensions work.
Appalachian
06-15-13, 17:41
....
I think you're going to give yourself an ulcer if you keep this up lol. Just get an APC and be done with it :D
.....
And this is great advice ^^ :)
JB, Here is a general sizing chart we use (again, very general, every shooter is different). The height is not critical on this chart, but the chest sizes are in the beaten zone. 10x12(ish) plates in a Small/Med APC are a good fit, lots of shooters run this combination. Same carrier also fits shooters cut "10x12" PSA4 plates (Level IV stand alone). The carrier (specifically an APC) will never be a perfect fit as others have stated in this thread (may have a bit of space in the very top of the plate pockets, a bit of excess material on the upper quadrants when running a shooters cut etc etc). But it works well for many.
Good luck finding what you need!
v/r
Mike
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii545/AppalachianTraining/platesizes_zpsa26ed1cd.png (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/AppalachianTraining/media/platesizes_zpsa26ed1cd.png.html)
Jellybean,
I think you're going to give yourself an ulcer if you keep this up lol. Just get an APC and be done with it :D
Got the weights for you btw:
Plates: 6lbs 1oz
Backers: 15.8 oz
Side soft armor: 6.3 oz
*I believe the carrier is only 16oz but did not weigh it so that's from whatever published specs that I *think* I remember.
So yes, the plate + backer is about the same as a stand alone lvl4 but you get the extra "padding" as well as extra blunt force protection.
In all seriousness, I can't help you as far as sizing goes for the APC unless you can get some real numbers as to how "small/big" you are. I don't consider myself a big guy but that's all subjective. You may be bigger than me. If you can get some measurements (ie. nipple to nipple and/or outside of chest muscle to the other) then I may be able to help. Only thing I can say right now is that the PIG is definitely wider than the APC. Or just do a plate mock up with paper and see how the dimensions work.
No joke- the APC is next on the list.
Frankly, if that doesn't work out, I don't know what I'm going to do next- looked more at the GPC and started finding things I'm not sure I like with the design. Damn, this PIG has spoiled me and I haven't but tried it on....:shout:
Actually- Ironman you said you were running a Sm/Med. APC? Is there any way you could run a measurement across the front of the thing for actual width? After measuring the PIG front panel, it "should" work, but the extra space on the sides where the MOLLE ends is still worrying me.
You think this is ulcer causing? You should see what I'm going through with the "battle belt", and of course the Safariland holster a while back...:laugh:
I'll have to get some pics and do a big writeup someday....
Seems like the weights are as advertised, more or less. Good to know.
AP, thanks for the chart and info.
pentosinjunkie
07-18-13, 14:04
And this is great advice ^^ :)
JB, Here is a general sizing chart we use (again, very general, every shooter is different). The height is not critical on this chart, but the chest sizes are in the beaten zone. 10x12(ish) plates in a Small/Med APC are a good fit, lots of shooters run this combination. Same carrier also fits shooters cut "10x12" PSA4 plates (Level IV stand alone). The carrier (specifically an APC) will never be a perfect fit as others have stated in this thread (may have a bit of space in the very top of the plate pockets, a bit of excess material on the upper quadrants when running a shooters cut etc etc). But it works well for many.
Good luck finding what you need!
v/r
Mike
Yeah, I discovered yesterday that the VelSyst PA34 10x12 III/IV ICW setup doesn't really fit out my S/M APC as well as the used SAPI profile plates it was replacing.
However, they are extremely thin. How does adding the backers affect the fitment of these plates in the APC?
I might transition to the VelSys LWPC, just use them in my Mayflower LPAC setup, or scrap it all and just go to the ULV carrier with HSP D3 rig. It'd be interesting to see Mayflower/VelSys release an updated APC cut for these plates.
I bought an APC with soft armor backers a few years ago but I never got around to buying the plates (training plates sit in it now). Since then Grey Ghost released their Level IV stand alone plates at an awesome price. What's the consensus on pairing stand alones with soft armor, just because I already have it? I know the soft armor would provide a little more padding and worst case I can just take that out, but just curious.
I bought an APC with soft armor backers a few years ago but I never got around to buying the plates (training plates sit in it now). Since then Grey Ghost released their Level IV stand alone plates at an awesome price. What's the consensus on pairing stand alones with soft armor, just because I already have it? I know the soft armor would provide a little more padding and worst case I can just take that out, but just curious.
It's just going to conform to your body more than the hard plate would and inhibit air flow. I wouldn't wear a backer underneath a SA plate unless the plate was digging into me and the carrier wasn't padding the edges of the plate well enough. On a triple curve plate I think it's a poor idea.
And trile curves are supposed to be much more comfortable than a single curve gamma cut, correct?
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