View Full Version : CA suing distrubters for mag "repair kits."
Mauser KAR98K
06-11-13, 03:48
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/High-capacity-ammo-repair-kit-lawsuit-4592551.php
These businesses "think they've devised a clever end-run around California law by selling fully functional high-capacity magazines that have simply been disassembled into a few easily reassembled parts," Herrera said in a statement. "Our litigation intends to prove otherwise."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/High-capacity-ammo-repair-kit-lawsuit-4592551.php#ixzz2Vtat9Anf
The companies are 44Mag Distributing of Harbor, Ore.; Exile Machine of Dallas; Cope's Distributing of Greenville, Ohio; and gun-show promoter B&L Productions of Kaysville, Utah. None returned phone calls seeking comment on the suit.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/High-capacity-ammo-repair-kit-lawsuit-4592551.php#ixzz2Vtb0vbuI
Grand58742
06-11-13, 04:09
Kinda wondered how long this would last before someone took notice and started asking pointed questions.
Sure because all that changes the fact that someone perpetuated evil against others. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
davidjinks
06-11-13, 06:44
I'm not from California...
Having said that, I thought it was legal under CA law to sell "Rebuild" kits for magazines?
In the end though, I actually dislike saying this, why any gun related company continues to do business in that state, I don't know.
I don't mean to be disparaging to the citizens in that state but damn! What hasn't the state of CA taken from their citizens?
CA guys need to be getting that stuff from private individuals in free states.
It's perfectly legal but the asshole anti gun nutjobs in CA gov't decided that they don't like it when people follow the law and still get what they want.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
06-11-13, 09:56
Loopholes and end arounds= following the letter of the law.
Traveshamockery
06-11-13, 10:02
Isn't the rule that you can build a magazine out of "rebuild kit" parts as long as there's at least one pre-ban component included in the finished magazine?
I wonder if you can you have 80% lowers in Cali ?
Too bad the California AG/ DOJ already issued an opinion on this:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf
That is it.
I think I am going to have to flee this state, sooner.
I was under the impression that owning rebuild kits was perfectly legal. Even if the intent was to use out of state in training, or competitions.
It's perfectly legal but the asshole anti gun nutjobs in CA gov't decided that they don't like it when people follow the law and still get what they want.
Ah shit, not Copes. They are GTG and not to mention but local here in Ohio. I did ask once how they managed to sell 40 round AK mags in the state of Ohio (anything more than 31 is a no no) and they said that they ship them disassembled......:laugh: I have been a return customer ever since. Stick it to them yeah!!
PA PATRIOT
06-11-13, 12:11
Well California just plain sucks donkey balls.
I loved the state back in the early 80's and considered moving there permanently because of its sheer land scape beauty but I had a job offer back on the east coast and rolled.
Its a shame what happen in that state.
That is it.
I think I am going to have to flee this state, sooner.
I was under the impression that owning rebuild kits was perfectly legal. Even if the intent was to use out of state in training, or competitions.
Really? THAT is what did it for you. Stop saying it and just ****ing do it. There is no job or weather pattern that is worth that hellhole.
SomeOtherGuy
06-11-13, 13:18
Ah shit, not Copes. They are GTG and not to mention but local here in Ohio. I did ask once how they managed to sell 40 round AK mags in the state of Ohio (anything more than 31 is a no no) and they said that they ship them disassembled......:laugh: I have been a return customer ever since. Stick it to them yeah!!
My (possibly incorrect) understanding was that you can legally have an empty, not-inserted-in-a-gun 31+ round magazine in Ohio, but it magically becomes an "illegal machinegun" or something if you insert it into a firearm.
Really? THAT is what did it for you. Stop saying it and just ****ing do it. There is no job or weather pattern that is worth that hellhole.
Hmm, I think I was not clear, sorry.
When I said "that is it" I meant it in a response to what I quoted from the member above me.
I also have had plans to leave CA before I even learned about the horrid gun laws in depth. I do not care for the weather here either. And I will have better job opportunities, and living in WI, where I am moving with my friend.
I am very lucky, I am young, I have no family obligations, my girlfriend does not live with me yet as she is of now out of state until her college courses are done, I also have the assets to move essentially across the country and have some time to find a job.
So what I meant by leaving sooner is, if some crazy laws are passed making me a felon, I can just up and leave sooner than what I have planned. Since by August, I will be in WI looking for apartments and get that ball rolling, along with applying for work at a few factories my friend has suggested.
Sorry for the language but all I can say is plainly **** CA!
Too bad the California AG/ DOJ already issued an opinion on this:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf
Q6/A6 and the subsequent Q9/A9 leaves the DA's some leeway on how to handle complete rebuild kits. Seems like if you have a complete set of parts to make a mag from scratch so to speak they could prosecute you.
I'm not a legal beagle, but if the distributors are out of state how can Commiefornia sue them? Isn't the "guilty" party the recipient of the goods?
Looks like Ca is trying to insure that nobody does business with them. As a distributor of anything I sure as shit wouldn't want to be liable for knowing all the ins and outs of Ca law. Why even bother shipping anything there including TP??
Looks like Ca is trying to insure that nobody does business with them. As a distributor of anything I sure as shit wouldn't want to be liable for knowing all the ins and outs of Ca law. Why even bother shipping anything there including TP??
That's the battle... when distributors can't even keep this stuff on the shelves, even at increased prices, why risk even shipping it into "enemy territory"?
I am guessing the PRK DOJ will be asking for all records of sales of the magazine parts?
What a waste. I wish the big one would hit those losers already.
Moose-Knuckle
06-11-13, 17:22
What a waste. I wish the big one would hit those losers already.
You might end up owning some land down on Arizona Bay. :D
My (possibly incorrect) understanding was that you can legally have an empty, not-inserted-in-a-gun 31+ round magazine in Ohio, but it magically becomes an "illegal machinegun" or something if you insert it into a firearm.
Probably. I keep my loaded Bulgarian Circle C 40 rounders "just for show" ;) I promise I won't take them out in public until they are needed...:no:
I don't suppose we will hear any apologies from the CA residents who disparaged people and businesses that chose not to disassemble and ship questionably legal products to their State?
Can someone make the stretch and explain to me how the City of San Francisco can bring suit against a company who does not have a physical presence in the state and does not conduct any business there? I'm not sure that Crossroads doesn't have a problem, but DSG and 44 Mag I believe are untouchable. Hopefully DSG and 44 Mag will counter sue. This is going to get interesting...
If it were me, I would totally and completely ignore the lawsuit and any other form of contact, and keep on keeping on.
Come what may!
FWIW, people sell rebuild kits with > 10 rounds all the time on Calguns.net and it's supposed to be perfectly legal if you legally own the original pre-ban magazine - that's the rub. The issue most likely isn't pushed very far with private citizens is why it's so common. I see 80% lowers for sale there all the time too.
You make a very valid point. I remember the KAC haterz that were mad when they wouldn't ship parts. They claimed that KAC was reading into it too much and no one would go after them.
I don't suppose we will hear any apologies from the CA residents who disparaged people and businesses that chose not to disassemble and ship questionably legal products to their State?
Hopefully DSG and 44 Mag will counter sue. This is going to get interesting...
My thoughts too. But I'm no Lawyer.
VooDoo6Actual
06-12-13, 08:29
The hypocrisy is deafening.
WAFOT.
FWIW, people sell rebuild kits with > 10 rounds all the time on Calguns.net and it's supposed to be perfectly legal if you legally own the original pre-ban magazine - that's the rub. The issue most likely isn't pushed very far with private citizens is why it's so common. I see 80% lowers for sale there all the time too.
It is not against the law to own parts, you can go to Nevada and assemble the parts, use the magazine, then disassemble it and go back to the PRK.
From reading on Calguns, to the best of my knowledge, it was said that the prosecutor would have to prove that your intent was to manufacture normal capacity magazines in the PRK. I also read that it is very rare, or almost nonexistent, to be questioned by police about your magazines, or to be arrested for having them. They simply never come across them- while at ranges. I have never seen it happen. Even when we were talking with a Park Ranger in our shooting spot. Though I do not think he could arrest us, only call the police if we were breaking the law.
Though, the exception, I can see would be a traffic stops. Whether you are already in the wrong and the cop searches your car, or you answer truthfully, and allow the police to see the weapons you may or may not have in your car.
All in all, in the PRK, it is wise if you have rebuild kits, or preban mags, to have them in public as little as possible.
And for rebuild kits, there is no reason you should have one on you unless you are driving to enter America.
Can someone make the stretch and explain to me how the City of San Francisco can bring suit against a company who does not have a physical presence in the state and does not conduct any business there? I'm not sure that Crossroads doesn't have a problem, but DSG and 44 Mag I believe are untouchable.
What you're asking about is a question of personal jurisdiction. You don't need a physical store to be subjected to the state's jurisdiction. The jurisdiction analysis is based on "minimum contacts."
A non-resident defendant has minimum contacts with the forum state if they 1) have direct contact with the state; 2) have a contract with a resident of the state; 3) have placed their product into the stream of commerce such that it reaches the forum state; 4) seek to serve residents of the forum state; 5) have satisfied the Calder effects test; or 6) have a non-passive website viewed within the forum state.
What you're asking about is a question of personal jurisdiction. You don't need a physical store to be subjected to the state's jurisdiction. The jurisdiction analysis is based on "minimum contacts."
I get where your headed but I disagree completely. I'm going to steer clear of the legal minutia and only predict that while 44 Mag and DSG will undoubtedly have to pay money to prove their right, but this action will go nowhere. Bob Templeton of Crossroads has a completely different problem.
Some FFL's even "confiscate-" basically refuse to transfer- rebuild kits when they come in with someones guns.
The PRK's KGB is frightening.
CarlosDJackal
06-12-13, 16:36
Do the "Rebuild Kits" contain all the components for a complete mag? I always thought these kits are just the guts. :confused:
Do the "Rebuild Kits" contain all the components for a complete mag? I always thought these kits are just the guts. :confused:
Most do. The companies named in the lawsuit ship all of the components. It's actually really common in this area that "rebuild kits" are on the wall at local gun shops. One shop actually opened the magpul PMAG packaging, took the baseplate off and resealed the bag. I had to look twice because the spring was bulging out the bottom.
Maybe something favorable will come from this...
Mauser KAR98K
06-12-13, 20:35
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/5/ca-anti-gun-legislation-with-severe-ramifications-continues-to-move-in-sacramento.aspx?s=&st=&ps=
Oh, CALI is about to get worse.
Ouroborous
06-13-13, 17:17
Copes, PSA, and calegalmags have all stopped selling rebuild kits not for fear of breaking any laws but for fear of being named in a civil lawsuit that could cost them dearly.
Gestapo style politics at it's finest.
I feel a lot safer now.
When will they catch the loophole of us being able to buy standard mag releases?
Wait, oh shit.....should not have said that. :eek:
I think when I move to WI, I will have to have a ceremony of earning my freedom, by installing a standard mag release, and putting a 30 round mag in my gun. Never have done that before.
Moose-Knuckle
06-13-13, 17:45
I think when I move to WI, I will have to have a ceremony of earning my freedom, by installing a standard mag release, and putting a 30 round mag in my gun. Never have done that before.
A good friend of mine and a fellow M4C member moved here from CA a few years back. I helped him pick out his first EBR, a DDM4 their non-railed base model. He smiled from ear to ear when he picked it up.
What a waste. I wish the big one would hit those losers already.
Hopefully you're singling out the douchbag politicians in the state vs. lumping 2A supporters to perish as well in " the big one".
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